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  1. - Top - End - #841
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    So, is Ward in love?

  2. - Top - End - #842
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    I've never heard of a kickstarter being canceled early. Does that happen often? My limited experience is that they keep going until the end of the period. I don't know much about Indiegogo, let me just google it.

    The site levies a 5% fee for successful campaigns. For campaigns that fail to raise their target amount, users have the option of either refunding all money to their contributors at no charge or keeping all money raised minus a 9% fee

    Oh my god, this is even more cynical than I imagined. In my opinion, this whole "keep the money raised" option is just a big scam.

    Indiegogo should NOT be charging an extra 9% because the goal was not reached. It's almost like the website is trying to encourage theft, and wants a cut of the profits for doing so. If you can't reach the goal, then you can't do what you promised. There is no reason to keep the money, but Indiegogo just whispers in your ear that you deserve that money anyway, and we'll help you keep it, for an extra fee. No credible person should ever do a project on a shady website like this.

    I've donated a couple of times to kickstarter, not often, but some (donating to the Giant was my fondest example, cause that was just an EVENT), but I can not see myself ever donating to this place. There are so many failed projects to begin with. So many times when people take the money and run (*cough* Alternate Realities *cough*) but this one flat out tells you that if they don't get the minimum amount needed, we can just keep the money anyway.

    No, just no.

    EDIT: When I made this post, I thought that you could make the decision of whether or not to keep the money, after the campaign was done. This doesn't seem to be the case. I object less to Indiegogo now.

    Last edited by tomaO2; 2017-11-15 at 12:07 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #843
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    The worst part is that it's almost a foregone conclusion that they're not going to hit the goal. I know it. You know it. Even Thunt must know it. That's why they're cancelling this halfway through with only 1/4th of the minimum goal met.

    So all that money is just going to disappear under the justification that it will eventually go into this project one day. We all know that day will probably never come though.

  4. - Top - End - #844
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    I've never heard of a kickstarter being canceled early. Does that happen often?
    Yes, it can happen, but it isn't common practice. I remember Kickstarter for Pandante cancelling and then being rebooted - the idea was, they could use heavy plastic chips instead of porcelain or something, which made the Kickstarter way more affordable.

    Moving to IndieGoGo, is a very questionable move.
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  5. - Top - End - #845
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Wish I could say I was surprised...
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  6. - Top - End - #846
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Just because i'm an optimist and don't care if i loose fifteen bucks to something i wanted to happen anyways, i scoured through twitter and read through what tarol and Matt King were saying about it.

    -They've re-worked the campaign, listened to backer feedback and streamlined it more (More small donations you can make for physical rewards like a plushie? *shrugs*
    -Indeogogo is evidently going to be able to provide support kickstarter was not. Advertising of the project itself made by Indeogogo maybe?
    -Indegogo is a better option for film / tv projects, other projects have moved from kickstarter to indegogo and had great success.

    And this one is just my own guess, but heck.

    -Even if they're only partly funded, they could still start work on it and get things rolling, this could help out with finding investors who wouldn't want to change everything later on if they need to look for bigger investors at all.

    Considering this is such a huge project with so many famous names and faces, and apparently quite a few lawyers involved, i rather doubt it's a scam either way. Just some guys who want to make a good comic into an awesome cartoon without worry of needing to tone things down like chief's death or kin's backstory, ultimately ruining the whole flow / point of the comic itself.
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  7. - Top - End - #847
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Oh I don't think it's a scam exactly. I just think the money is going to disappear and the product will never materialize. It's all about intent. Thunt probably intends to actually deliver this product, and will justify keeping the money based on that. I just don't see him ever actually delivering.

    I also don't see all these big names sitting around and waiting for years while he scrounges up money a little bit a time. The only way this was ever going to get off the ground is if the kickstarter was wildly successful and someone besides Thunt manages it. The Kickstarter has obviously not gone well though, and I doubt anyone besides Thunt is really all that dedicated to the project to stick around once the money runs out.

  8. - Top - End - #848
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    To clarify, I'm not saying Thunt is pulling a scam, I just think the concept of being able to keep money raised, even when the goal isn't reached, for an extra fee, is a scam. I think this is a terrible website to use for fundraising, and no one should use it.

    On another note, I looked at his forum. The reason given for switching is that they were upset that Kickstarter didn't help promote their project, and they feel that Indiegogo will. Maybe he's got a point there. On paper, the project does look pretty impressive, and the talent backing it seems notable, but I don't really know the criteria as to what gets Kickstarter interested in the first place. It also don't have limits to the amount of money that can be contributed (KS has a cap of 10k). They are also going to do it differently, by making shorter animations, and so the goal will be lower (probably). Additionally, a mod, by the name of WearsHats, says, "They do offer a flexible funding option where the money is still collected even if the goal isn't met, at the cost of higher fees to creators, but G:TAS won't be using that."

    So, that's a relief. Turns out that they absolutely will not keep your money, if the goal isn't raised. After all, if you can't trust a random mod on a forum, who doesn't seem to have any direct involvement with the project, then who can you trust?
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2017-11-11 at 10:03 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #849
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    So, that's a relief. Turns out that they absolutely will not keep your money, if the goal isn't raised. After all, if you can't trust a random mod on a forum, who doesn't seem to have any direct involvement with the project, then who can you trust?
    If Indiegogo have it set up so if the creator wants to take the money when the whole fund isn't raised, then they take a bigger cut from the start and make it clear that that's what is happening, that might be slightly less unethical, and maybe you would know whether you were giving someone money or backing a project that might give you back your money if it wasn't funded.

    I don't back kickstarters anyway, so I'm not involved.
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  10. - Top - End - #850
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    and apparently quite a few lawyers involved.
    The lawyers serve those who pay them, this is definetely not the backers and I doubt Thunt is paying one of them either.
    * my emphasis

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  11. - Top - End - #851
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    There's nothing wrong in principal with the creator still getting the money if the goal wasn't met. If I'm looking for a commercial party to help me produce a cartoon it helps if I can show them a bunch of interested people who already gave me enough money so that I can foot half the bill myself.

    The higher fee from Indiegogo is pretty sleazy though, yeah. (And 5% seems like a big enough fee to begin with, for a crowdfunding site, all they ever do is reply to angry backers "not our problem".) But the move that draws my attention it using this as plan B. "Okay, okay, we tried the cool platform, but they won't give us your money, so let's go over here so we can just take part of it."

    (Of course you can set up a kickstarter with a goal of $100 for a single character sketch and a stretch goal of one bazillion for a full season of a cartoon, there's just going to be less people donating.)

    Anyway, it is kind of a cool project, so I wish them well with it. I'm just not going to trust them with money.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2017-11-10 at 03:40 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #852
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Wish I could say I was surprised...
    For anyone who plays PbP on this site, you know how you sometimes see the same few usernames pitching games they're saying they'll DM with some weird and wacky premise, and every single one of those died in its infancy because that DM lost interest in favor of their new wacky game, and you just want to shout at them to stop trying because they keep failing? Thunt is that, with thousands of dollars trickling away each time.

    EDIT: Back to the comic, so is anyone else tired of Thunt thinking that "Scwillion" is a hilarious thing to say?
    Last edited by Nettlekid; 2017-11-11 at 01:20 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #853
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Not really. Does it matter what nonsense term he uses to denote "a lot"?
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  14. - Top - End - #854
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Nettlekid View Post
    EDIT: Back to the comic, so is anyone else tired of Thunt thinking that "Scwillion" is a hilarious thing to say?
    No, but I do tire of his humor:
    cursed to punch himself when he says "what"?

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    Last edited by Agi Hammerthief; 2017-11-12 at 02:06 AM.
    * my emphasis

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  15. - Top - End - #855
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    it's occurred for exactly one page since it was introduced. Have at least a little bit of patience :/
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  16. - Top - End - #856
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    it's occurred for exactly one page since it was introduced. Have at least a little bit of patience :/
    I just picked this as the latest example, my annoyance is a bit older.
    * my emphasis

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  17. - Top - End - #857
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Eh, it's what I call "slow jokes". Thunt has actually created some funny stuff, and I think that it shows very well with the GAP. But in general I don't care much about Bowst or Caninchen, Bowst in particular has received no characterization beyond being an idiot and having that curse, so there is nothing else to expect from him than stupidly activating the curse, which makes it easily foreseen and therefore unfunny. It's also the kind of joke that slows the rhythm. I don't know, maybe it should be shown in the background, instead of giving it its own 3-4 panels.

  18. - Top - End - #858
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Well, with all due respect. We're not going to get any characterization out of him by avoiding him at every opportunity. Gotta spend at least SOME time with him.
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  19. - Top - End - #859
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    He's already had a fair number of pages, though. All I remember is:

    - Torture/Curses (funny curses and horror curses)
    - He's an idiot (acts like an idiot, talks like an idiot)
    - He tries to be a bully, but he's too stupid even for that.

    By contrast, we know that Idle is a risk taker, that she gets bored easily, enjoys body art, and likes to talk and keep things in the clear and information shared.

    If curses and stupidity are already an established trait, maybe we can get forward to some other trait.

  20. - Top - End - #860
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    I feel like he's just a discount Minmax for Forgath to bounce off of while the real Minmax is occupied. He's certainly not much of a character in his own right. I'm not sure he's even supposed to be.

  21. - Top - End - #861
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    So it looks like they cancelled the kickstarter because they realised they weren't going to meet their goal, and re-adjusted their expectations. Kickstarted doesn't allow for changing goals/rewards once you've started getting pledges (which makes sense to me, if you pledge for a reward you probably don't want it to change to something else) so they cancelled it instead, and will relaunch on Indiegogo, which apparently is more flexible? Maybe they just didn't want to relaunch on the same website.

    Either way it looks like the goal will be different. They were hoping to earn enough to make the show themselves, but realised they won't, so now they're going to work towards making a trailer of sorts to show around and get picked up. It wasn't their first choice because they wanted to retain as much autonomy as possible, but it seems more realistic considering the circumstances and how the kickstarter wasn't going to meet its goal.

    I've pledged to Indiegogo before and I've been happy with the results, I've had more kickstarters not follow through than indigogo stuff, but that's anecdotal evidence of course. I don't know if they'd choose to keep the money if they don't meet their goal, but my guess is that if they did that, it would be to still use the money they do get to make the trailer? I'm sure there will be more info once the Indigogo campaign is up (which should be tomorrow).
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  22. - Top - End - #862
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    I thought that option B was asking the National Film Board of Canada for co-production. Let's see how it rolls.

  23. - Top - End - #863
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I feel like he's just a discount Minmax for Forgath to bounce off of while the real Minmax is occupied. He's certainly not much of a character in his own right. I'm not sure he's even supposed to be.
    I wonder how things would have worked out, if he hadn't been foreseen as a character. After all, Idle and Ward would form a group anyway, and it would have been easier to get inside a foreign group, if it had been smaller.

    EDIT: In a way, it is silly on my side to make this comment, since there have been relatively few pages with them, and there likely will be many more, but, from a RL timing point of view, well, it's been a while.
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2017-11-13 at 08:30 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #864
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Indigogo is up ! Lower goal, and they picked the option where no money is taken if they don't meet their goal.
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  25. - Top - End - #865
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissou View Post
    Indigogo is up ! Lower goal, and they picked the option where no money is taken if they don't meet their goal.
    That's good to hear. I was prepared to lose a lot of respect for them if they kept the money.

  26. - Top - End - #866
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    I hadn't actually researched it, but comments here had given me the impression that it might be something the project runners can choose at the end when all the pledges have already been made. Good to see that's not the case.
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  27. - Top - End - #867
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Only 6% of the budget for voice actors? That's only 14,880 - that sounds low but not completely unreasonable if the union scale isn't crazy and they don't need much time in the recording studio. I guess this is all for a single ten minute episode or something right?

    I'm slightly more inclined to back this now - the rewards seem a bit 'better' but I also have no love for Indiegogo, but then again they did select fixed goal instead of flexible funding which is a bit more reasonable... But I'm also slightly bitter/annoyed by the fact that of the last 3(?) updates the comic has received two of them have been for these projects when I'd honestly much prefer if there was no project and the comics actually updated more often.

    On the comic itself - I know it's pretty standard to be annoyed whenever the focus of the story switches but I feel like this is the worst case of it ever. I don't care about the new characters, the Kliks are interesting but only in small doses, and now that we finally have MM + GAP together it seems like having fewer 'groups' to switch between would have made the comic flow smoother. Instead we give Forgath a bunch of random, boring, nonsense to wade through. Oh well, I'm sure by the time they switch to something else I'll actually be invested in this and will complain about it then :/

  28. - Top - End - #868
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Typewriter View Post
    Only 6% of the budget for voice actors? That's only 14,880 - that sounds low but not completely unreasonable if the union scale isn't crazy and they don't need much time in the recording studio. I guess this is all for a single ten minute episode or something right?

    I'm slightly more inclined to back this now - the rewards seem a bit 'better' but I also have no love for Indiegogo, but then again they did select fixed goal instead of flexible funding which is a bit more reasonable... But I'm also slightly bitter/annoyed by the fact that of the last 3(?) updates the comic has received two of them have been for these projects when I'd honestly much prefer if there was no project and the comics actually updated more often.

    On the comic itself - I know it's pretty standard to be annoyed whenever the focus of the story switches but I feel like this is the worst case of it ever. I don't care about the new characters, the Kliks are interesting but only in small doses, and now that we finally have MM + GAP together it seems like having fewer 'groups' to switch between would have made the comic flow smoother. Instead we give Forgath a bunch of random, boring, nonsense to wade through. Oh well, I'm sure by the time they switch to something else I'll actually be invested in this and will complain about it then :/
    Well, we are due a switch to the adventures of Dies and Saves a Fox...

  29. - Top - End - #869
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    I hadn't actually researched it, but comments here had given me the impression that it might be something the project runners can choose at the end when all the pledges have already been made. Good to see that's not the case.
    I've never visited Indiegogo before, the wiki entry led me to believe that you could decide, after the campaign was over, if you wanted to keep the money. If I had known that, I wouldn't have started raising a fuss until after the project started. That's really annoying. I'm going to make an edit to make it clear that not accepting partial funds is an option that must be decided before the campaign begins, and can't just be picked afterwards.

    Happy to see that there is a mechanism that will give donators confidence that the project won't just take their money and run if they don't raise enough.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2017-11-15 at 12:03 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #870
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Indegogo also doesn't need you to make an account before backing a project, so that's nice.

    as for forgath's group, i like to think of it just was a way to keep in touch with what's happening to the outside world. We kmow things are turning to literal hell, but it's hard to get the full scape of that inside a dungeon we've never been too before. This way Forgath and co have the chance to go somewhere and say "hey! it's not supposed to be like that!" and show how far hell has spread.
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