Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

[Anteros]

If you're looking for webcomics that progress quickly, you might want to check out Will save the world for Gold or Nerf Now!

Goblins only updates once a week dude, of course it's going to be slower.

Even if you put aside the update schedule, they've been dying for 9 updates now, and we still have at least a few more to go. It's just a really strange pacing decision. All this stuff like exposition about the magic items could have been easily done afterwards without undermining the serious stuff going on in the plot.

[Hackman]

stabbed MM in the sexual tension.

It's the first time I've heard that particular euphemism.

[Draconi Redfir]

Even if you put aside the update schedule, they've been dying for 9 updates now, and we still have at least a few more to go. It's just a really strange pacing decision. All this stuff like exposition about the magic items could have been easily done afterwards without undermining the serious stuff going on in the plot.

They're all stablaized and for the moment at least, safe. There really doesn't seem to be a rush.

And really Thunt is able to update once a week now with exeption to those two or three weeks where he and/or his colourest had to take the week off due to illness / surgery /flood or something of the sort. This is the fastest things have been going since he joined up with the guys who did LookingForGroup. He's just not almost killing himself with all the work now.

[Alandra]

The item exposition is more of a funny break between two dangerous things (the bomb nearly killing them all and Fumbles hopefully not dying in the teller ceremony).

Do you think Fumbles will really aim for or even get six? I mean, I'm pretty sure he won't die in the ceremony and he might be sturdier due to having PC levels or something, but getting as many as nobody exept a legend was able do still seems like a bit of a stretch. Getting four would still be pretty awesome.

And Names deserved that. It's obvious that Minmax and Fumbles care about each other and he should know that Goblins accusing the humans of being evil monsters is exactly the same as humans accusing Goblins of being evil monsters.

[Anteros]

The item exposition is more of a funny break between two dangerous things (the bomb nearly killing them all and Fumbles hopefully not dying in the teller ceremony).

Do you think Fumbles will really aim for or even get six? I mean, I'm pretty sure he won't die in the ceremony and he might be sturdier due to having PC levels or something, but getting as many as nobody exept a legend was able do still seems like a bit of a stretch. Getting four would still be pretty awesome.

And Names deserved that. It's obvious that Minmax and Fumbles care about each other and he should know that Goblins accusing the humans of being evil monsters is exactly the same as humans accusing Goblins of being evil monsters.

If anyone can take on multiple impressions of other people and survive it's him. He's virtually a blank slate himself, and he already has more than one personality. He seems uniquely suited to this particular challenge.

[Draconi Redfir]

so do you think the past tellers show up one by one in random order, chronological order, or reverse chronological order?

if random or reverse order, we're probably going to see Young and Beautiful again. if chronological order, then man, everyone must know who /what that first teller is, since he's there for EVERY ceremony and very few go much beyond him! Probably tellers who have never been embraced before.

[Tom Tearcamel]

We're definitely going to see Young And Beautiful again, I just wonder if she'll actually be "young and beautiful." If so, only Thaco will reconsise her, and that could be some quality comedy. I'm expecting her 1st and the reverse chronological order (kind like Aang talking to his prior incarnations.)

[Mastikator]

so do you think the past tellers show up one by one in random order, chronological order, or reverse chronological order?

if random or reverse order, we're probably going to see Young and Beautiful again. if chronological order, then man, everyone must know who /what that first teller is, since he's there for EVERY ceremony and very few go much beyond him! Probably tellers who have never been embraced before.

Maybe we'll see it in an order not based on time, maybe personal or moral alignment with the next teller.

Either way it would be cool to see Young and Beautiful again.

[Anteros]

I'm not sure how I feel about these latest bits with Fumbles. It's great that he's growing as a character, but it's a little unbelievable that he's actually been this wise all along.

[Grand Arbiter]

New Comic.

[danielxcutter]

Yup, Fumbles really does have the highest Wisdom in the entire party.

[Lethologica]

Uh, Fumbles channeling Thaco there? That was, like, ten times as reasonable as anything he's said in the last ever.

[Doran]

I can get he had a really low INT and middling CHA, but a really high WIS, including extremely high empathy for others.
It matches up perfectly with him being willing to go into a Human city alone just to return a child's doll.
He was the one to break the rules and come up with idea of being a PC in the first place.

[Quild]

Even if you put aside the update schedule, they've been dying for 9 updates now, and we still have at least a few more to go. It's just a really strange pacing decision. All this stuff like exposition about the magic items could have been easily done afterwards without undermining the serious stuff going on in the plot.

You're slightly stretching it considering that two updates were unrelated and that you are including the update where they are actually hurt.
Technically:
1) Explosion
2) Ears and Thaco stabilized, Names regen.
3) Decision of Teller Ceremony
4) Magic item interlude 1
5) Magic item interlude 2
6) Magic item interlude 3
7) About Teller Ceremony and stuff + start of preparing said ceremony
8) Fight + solve tension

The last one actually came after your post.
I don't think there's a problem with pacing, I think you have a probleme with patience. Which isn't a big deal (japanese comics are really appreciated in France and man, people are so impatient of getting their 10-14 pages a week). I remember how much my mother told me not to read "that fast" when I was a kid because then I would be upsed about having to wait for new stuff to read. I never stopped reading fast but I learned patience :)
I think there's no problem

[Anteros]

I can get he had a really low INT and middling CHA, but a really high WIS, including extremely high empathy for others.
It matches up perfectly with him being willing to go into a Human city alone just to return a child's doll.

I would actually consider that a very unwise decision to make...

I don't think there's a problem with pacing, I think you have a probleme with patience.

I don't think so. I read probably 10-20 or so of these types of comics regularly. Some of those update even less frequently, and have less content per update, but the only ones where the pacing is consistently frustrating are this and Erfworld.

As a general rule, you probably shouldn't tell people "I don't see the problem, so it must be a problem with you instead." I'm not really offended, but it's hard to not see it as an insult.

[Doran]

I would actually consider that a very unwise decision to make...

Well yes, but maybe Tarol's definition of Wisdom means you need both a decent Wisdom and Intelligence score to be properly rounded out with common sense -
like how Durkon has a higher Wisdom score than Roy, but still fears Trees, whereas Roy has all 3 mental attributes in good supply, and thus is the straight man of the group.

Intelligence or Knowledge:Religion would have allowed Durkon to work out Malak was a vampire much earlier, or that hanging out with Tarquin must have meant he was a pretty unpleasant character.

Lack of intelligence probably meant Fumbles couldn't properly imagine the likely consequences of him visiting a Human city, but put him in familiar territory like Goblin lore, and he's super clued-up.
He's also wise enough not to hold a grudge against Humans or other adventuring parties in general, despite being tortured horrifically by Goblinslayer.

[Traab]

Im a little displeased by this comic, it feels like too big of a jump forward for vorpal coherency wise. I mean yes earlier he tricked thaco but this just felt kind of out of nowhere fromt he guy who was just fighting with minmax over being king of the ring closet.

[Yuki Akuma]

Y'know I kinda want Minmax to stick Oblivious into the Identify Wall just to see what it'd say.

[Traab]

Y'know I kinda want Minmax to stick Oblivious into the Identify Wall just to see what it'd say.

Hasnt enough exploded for one room? lol I admit I would like to see what stats the sword has, but im fairly sure it would return a bunch of question marks. Cool idea time. Minmax could easily get a new weapon, put oblivion into another one of those time travel hole things, that way he will always have a weapon in reserve in case the worst happens. Your standard held prisoner type adventure for example. "You all wake up in a cell with no armor or weapons." "I grab oblivious!" "&^$^%$"

[JeenLeen]

Im a little displeased by this comic, it feels like too big of a jump forward for vorpal coherency wise. I mean yes earlier he tricked thaco but this just felt kind of out of nowhere fromt he guy who was just fighting with minmax over being king of the ring closet.

It took me a couple reads to realize that it was him that was talking and not another one of the goblins, and even then (still now) I wonder if it was somehow an art error. I can see him objecting to the fighting, but... that manner of speech just seems too unlike him.

Unless maybe this shows him finally throwing off all the mental distress from his torture, and approaching things more seriously due to his plan to become a teller. But it is very jarring to his comment about how many aspects he plans to absorb in just the last comic.

[Anteros]

It took me a couple reads to realize that it was him that was talking and not another one of the goblins, and even then (still now) I wonder if it was somehow an art error. I can see him objecting to the fighting, but... that manner of speech just seems too unlike him.

Unless maybe this shows him finally throwing off all the mental distress from his torture, and approaching things more seriously due to his plan to become a teller. But it is very jarring to his comment about how many aspects he plans to absorb in just the last comic.

That's basically what threw me off about it as well.

I guess we could just chalk this up to Thunt wanting to show that Fumbles is "wiser" than we always thought, but not being very good at dialogue. We know he's struggled with writing dialogue in the past, so it's not surprising. I'm not insulting the guy though. He's very good at other aspects of storytelling.

Or maybe this is just the first time Fumbles ever felt the need to be serious...although even I find that a stretch.

[Traab]

That's basically what threw me off about it as well.

I guess we could just chalk this up to Thunt wanting to show that Fumbles is "wiser" than we always thought, but not being very good at dialogue. We know he's struggled with writing dialogue in the past, so it's not surprising. I'm not insulting the guy though. He's very good at other aspects of storytelling.

Or maybe this is just the first time Fumbles ever felt the need to be serious...although even I find that a stretch.

The thing is, I would have accepted it easier had thunt included a few more random bits of intelligent conversation to show him being a bit more mature when things get serious. Like, he still enjoys himself and has fun with minmax whenever possible, but when its time to straighten up and fly right, his experience being tortured and such has helped him mature. As an example, when he tricked thaco, that was great, a few more of those of slowly increasing levels of wisdom and maturity would have set the stage for his eventual status as a teller and his ability to provide real advice like this.

[eschmenk]

I think that this may be something to be discussed and explained in the comic. After all, it would be odd if the characters didn't find it hard to believe, too.

It could be that Fumbles have been living up to the name given to him by Young and Beautiful. Now that he's imagining himself being a better teller than her, the name she gave him no longer limits his behavior. He wouldn't have named himself "Fumbles." He named himself, "Sir Vorpal Kickasso." He's behaving in a way that's more consistent with that name now. Or maybe Fumbles thinks there is something about becoming a teller that makes the teller's name work backwards. Young and Beautiful obviously became the opposite of that, so maybe Fumbles is starting to become the opposite of his name, too. Or maybe it magically works that way and is starting to magically affect Fumbles.

[Draconi Redfir]

Hasnt enough exploded for one room? lol I admit I would like to see what stats the sword has, but im fairly sure it would return a bunch of question marks.

Probably a bad idea. If you remember back when Oblivious was created Kin theorized that Oblivious is more powerful the less the weilder knows about it. If this is true, then putting Oblivious into the wall would reveal information about it to Minmax, potentually making the sword as a whole as effective as a twig. A twig that can't be moved or broken by anyone other then Minmax granted, but a Twig nonetheless.

Granted that was all in theory, entirely possible the sword works nothing like Kin thinks.

[Douglas]

Probably a bad idea. If you remember back when Oblivious was created Kin theorized that Oblivious is more powerful the less the weilder knows about it. If this is true, then putting Oblivious into the wall would reveal information about it to Minmax, potentually making the sword as a whole as effective as a twig. A twig that can't be moved or broken by anyone other then Minmax granted, but a Twig nonetheless.

Granted that was all in theory, entirely possible the sword works nothing like Kin thinks.

You're assuming Minmax would understand the wall's explanation. With his intellect, it's likely he'd just get even more confused about it.

[danielxcutter]

You're assuming Minmax would understand the wall's explanation. With his intellect, it's likely he'd just get even more confused about it.

Yeah, and then Oblivious becomes the most powerful weapon in the entire history of D&D webcomics.

[Emperor Time]

Yeah, and then Oblivious becomes the most powerful weapon in the entire history of D&D webcomics.

Which might be enough to defeat the demon that being release from the Axe of Prissan.

[Quild]

As a general rule, you probably shouldn't tell people "I don't see the problem, so it must be a problem with you instead." I'm not really offended, but it's hard to not see it as an insult.

Agreed on the general rule.
Yet, I think there's a difference between "I don't see the problem" and "I don't think there's a problem" and I stated that the problem I think you have with patience isn't a big deal.
If you want it with other words, I see the lack of patience that I think you have as a caracteristic rather than an issue.

Also you're the one complaining about a pacing which doesn't seem to be an issue to most other readers (while there are a lot of complains about Erfworld including mine). And you stretched the "been dying" thing (it's not like we had 9 updates of bleeding). If you're authorized to think I don't see a problem that exist, I'm authorized to think you see a problem that doesn't exist without being called an offender.

[Nettlekid]

So since THunt has no perception of moderation, there's no other possible outcome to this situation apart from Fumbles dies in a gory explosion of divine energy or Fumbles absorbs at least six imprints and becomes akin to a demigod. Odds on which it'll be? I'm guessing that the party is about to be swarmed by demons and so Fumbles will be left to his own devices, naively embraces like ten imprints, and becomes a Cleric so powerful that he saves them by obliterating the demons. It's not good writing, but it's THunt. The alternative is him dying which would devastate all the party, but since Chief just died (from their point of view, and not like four years ago from ours) and Minmax thinks Forgath just died they're already sufficiently distraught and you get into a "diminishing returns" kind of situation.

I learned patience :)

I love how this is demonstrably untrue by the very content of your preceding post.

Anteros is absolutely correct, the comic is paced horrendously. The update schedule only just coming into a semblance of normalcy after about two years of spotty updates (if any) doesn't help, but narratively the comic just doesn't flow well. Hopping between unrelated groups disproportionately doesn't make for a readable story when you're waiting week to week. When was the last time we heard a thing about Dies Horribly and his arc? Why did we jump to Forgath's new adventure for two pages after the GAP exploded; were those two pages of finding weird floating rocks so important that they needed to be conveyed at that moment and couldn't wait until the next time there was a natural transition to their group? Obviously the most egregious offender is when the Goblins were fleeing Kore and ran into what was revealed to be Minmax in a climactic encounter, and we go back in time to the whole Maze of Many arc. Basically: It's bad pacing and bad storytelling to completely cut things off at the climax. When the readers are ready for something to happen, to reach some kind of resolution, changing the scene entirely is a crushing de-escalation. Now, a skilled writer can pull it off. In a book, if you were reaching a climax (not in the middle of one, but preparing for one) and the author throws a curve ball of a short chapter in-between, the tension of the previous encounter is still there and building within you. Webcomics, by virtue of their update schedules, can't really afford to do that. That's what I think the two-page cut-to-Forgath-now-cut-back thing was trying to do, and when you're waiting half a month for resolution you lose interest. And now, in the middle of "Hell is literally enveloping the realm" we've been fumbling around in this one room with wacky magic items and angsty Goblin tribe drama for months. THunt doesn't know pacing. Or good writing, echoing a number of complains in this thread about how Fumbles' apparent high Wisdom is appearing with zero foreshadowing.

Ball's in your court, as the vote is standing at two against one.

[Anteros]

Snip

I mean, I wasn't gonna be quite so confrontational about it.


So anyway, new update. Looks like crap is going down. My bet is that this somehow ends up with Fumbles taking on a crap load of aspects.