Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

[Dukkai]

It is preceded by "When the serpent becomes your prey", and the prophecy was originally pointed at Forgath, though, so unless Kore is actually future/alternate Forgath, I don't see Kin dying here.

true.. but why was Fumbles telling Minmax that he is sorry...? I think that what daniel said seems to be on the right track. Kore will kill Kin and Minmax will see her head on the chain and go berserk. And Fumbles saw that pain and sorrow and loss, since Minmax could kill Kore but can't bring Kin back, and that is why he said to Minmax that he is sorry.

[Anteros]

None of these theories satisfy the "friends will become enemies" line of the prophecy.

[danielxcutter]

Jeez, you bring up one half-assed theory...

[Kaptin Keen]

..

...

Fixed for you.

At first, I was like 'but that's what I said'.

On closer inspection, there was a small but significant difference. I read a number of webcomics, and ... there are those where you feel the author has no idea where the story is going - and others where you wonder how they could possibly plan out such an outrageous plot in advance.

Not sure where Goblins fall on that scale =)

[Draconi Redfir]

None of these theories satisfy the "friends will become enemies" line of the prophecy.

since the prophecy is about forgath and / or minmax, the best i could assume is /something/ happens, some change in circumstance that causes either Minmax and Forgath to have different goals and thus become enemies, OR cause Minmax and the Goblins to become enemies. Or perhaps since they are around Forgath, something about Idle and Bowst becoming enemies, either to Forgath, or to one another.

or perhaps somehow, this encounter of Kore and Kind leads to some form of really, REALLY weird Freindship. that almost immediately collapses because, you know. Kore. And they become enemies.

[Kaptin Keen]

The 'friends' in question could be the Klik's. They're 'friends' - but the topic of a klik plague has already been brought up.

[Lethologica]

None of these theories satisfy the "friends will become enemies" line of the prophecy.

That's also the most easily satisfied line of the prophecy, though--just about anyone whose love is fueling hate as a result of a serpent becoming someone's prey has friends to turn on.

Indeed, Kore might be the only remotely relevant character who fails that line of the prophecy.

[Anteros]

That's also the most easily satisfied line of the prophecy, though--just about anyone whose love is fueling hate as a result of a serpent becoming someone's prey has friends to turn on.

Indeed, Kore might be the only remotely relevant character who fails that line of the prophecy.

Which still invalidates all those theories about Kore.

I think it's pretty clear that it refers to Minmax and Forgath. Considering that the first two times the prophecy was directed at Forgath and the other it was directed at Minmax. Especially since when they direct it at Forgath the wording is "When the serpent becomes your prey" and when it's directed at Minmax it's "When the serpent becomes his prey."

The wording specifically applies to Forgath having Kin as his prey, and causing Minmax to become his enemy. It basically explicitly says this.

[Starbuck_II]

What if Forgath becomes Kore due to a curse that send him back into the past.
Thus friends become enemies.

[Anteros]

What if Forgath becomes Kore due to a curse that send him back into the past.
Thus friends become enemies.

You would have to imagine that he would have recognized himself and not been so surprised to see a dwarf from Forgath's clan.

[Traab]

You would have to imagine that he would have recognized himself and not been so surprised to see a dwarf from Forgath's clan.

It entirely possible kore is messed up in the head. Also, that assumes time is a closed loop. By going back in time and becoming Kore, events change, which means his original timeline wont play out. So it wont be familiar to him. So not recognizing "himself" is reasonable as "he" wasnt in that location originally. Plus, again, dude has been on a mass slaughter rampage for long enough to be a world infamous legend. Thats going to mess with you mentally. After justifying killing an unknown number of innocent children, acknowledging that your old dwarf clan is unrepentantly evil isnt a stretch.

[deuterio12]

It entirely possible kore is messed up in the head. Also, that assumes time is a closed loop. By going back in time and becoming Kore, events change, which means his original timeline wont play out. So it wont be familiar to him. So not recognizing "himself" is reasonable as "he" wasnt in that location originally. Plus, again, dude has been on a mass slaughter rampage for long enough to be a world infamous legend. Thats going to mess with you mentally. After justifying killing an unknown number of innocent children, acknowledging that your old dwarf clan is unrepentantly evil isnt a stretch.

Kore may've also been bluffing and pretending to not recognize his past self. Paladin so Charisma is expected to be high.

[Nettlekid]

You would think that no one on this forum had ever heard of Occam's Razor.

[Kaptin Keen]

You would think that no one on this forum had ever heard of Occam's Razor.

Applicable in science. Not generally useful for storytelling.

[Anteros]

Applicable in science. Not generally useful for storytelling.

Still pretty useful for predicting where a story will go. It's just not generally useful for posting wild fan theories that have almost no basis in reality and are almost completely impossible.

Not that posting wild fan theories isn't fun sometimes.

[Kaptin Keen]

Still pretty useful for predicting where a story will go.

I can't imagine anything I'd agree less with. If logic is a useful tool for predicting where a story is going to go, that story is predictable and not worth reading. Experience, however, is an entirely diffent case.

[Nettlekid]

I can't imagine anything I'd agree less with. If logic is a useful tool for predicting where a story is going to go, that story is predictable and not worth reading. Experience, however, is an entirely diffent case.

I will bet you any sum of money that "Forgath travels back in time and becomes Kore and pretends not to recognize himself or his clan" is not the direction the story will go. Furthermore, I do not think the story would be good or interesting if it DID do that.

[Lethologica]

I can't imagine anything I'd agree less with. If logic is a useful tool for predicting where a story is going to go, that story is predictable and not worth reading. Experience, however, is an entirely diffent case.

How can it be the case that if logic is a useful tool for predicting a story, the story is predictable and not worth reading, but if experience is a useful tool for predicting a story, the same doesn't apply? How does one use experience as a predictive tool without logic coming along for the ride?

Stories are not random assemblages of characteristics. They follow patterns. Teasing out those patterns is an exercise in both experience and logic. The fact that experience and logic can serve as useful predictive tools does not make those stories not worth reading. Nor does it mean the story is never surprising. There's a difference between being coherent and being trite.

[Ibrinar]

I don't think Occam's Razor works very well on stories or rather it doesn't work when applied on the story like you would on real things, if you apply it on a meta level it works okay I suppose. (Taking into account things like that minor details mentioned in stories are far more often relevant than they would be in reality. That the author is only partly constrained by plausibility or probabilities and maximizes for entertainment or emotional impact or shock value or sometimes seemingly just word count. Genre conventions, desire to open new plot threads for sequels, love for twists etc.) So what does the forgath is kore scenario actually need in assumptions?
1)The author thought a "good guy time travels and becomes monster" scenario would be fun.
2) Because the author wants to hide it the interactions between him and Kore might not make much sense with the scenario. (Well if you want you can add an assumption for everything that doesn't fit.) (It wouldn't be the first story I read where a later reveal didn't quite fit what happened before.)

Point is I don't think Occams Razor works against the theory it doesn't require all that many assumptions on a meta level which is the level it should be applied on. I don't think it is the case because as others pointed out it doesn't seem to make much sense and there isn't really a strong reason to believe it.

[Kaptin Keen]

How can it be the case that if logic is a useful tool for predicting a story, the story is predictable and not worth reading, but if experience is a useful tool for predicting a story, the same doesn't apply?

That, however, is not what I said.

[Lethologica]

That, however, is not what I said.

Okay. So what were you saying? My interpretation was that you were contrasting experience with logic in terms of the types of stories it could predict. (I disagree that logic can only predict stories that aren't worth reading, which is definitely a thing that you said, but you don't appear interested in engaging with my points on that score.) Apparently my interpretation is wrong. In that case, what were you contrasting experience with, and in what way?

[Draconi Redfir]

Update Things were looking promising, but then there was a disturbing lack of fingers.

[Nettlekid]

Update Things were looking promising, but then there was a disturbing lack of fingers.

This is the first comic I noticed that Dwarves have three fingers and a thumb in Thunt's world, while Humans have four and a thumb.

[Gez]

Well, hurry up, it's a waste of energy to leave the fridge door open that long!

[John Cribati]

Is it possible Kin (or to be precise Kim's tail) has a higher strength than Kore? Grapple bonus has to account for something too.

[Quild]

I bet 10 golds that Kore would have find it odd if she had suggested it.

[CowardlyPaladin]

Little detail I like, Kore refers to "Humans" with the same sort of dismissive attitude he refers to goblins, orcs etc. Just with "humans=good" rather than "Humans=evil"

[Hands_Of_Blue]

Huh. The last panel reminded me a lot of when Minmax entered The Maze of Many.

[Douglas]

Hmm... Kore is known for being unstoppable, not fast, and Kin's got a lot of fog here and a really durable rear end. What if she drops low and flees? If Kore pulls out his crossbows and shoots, he'd be shooting blind into the fog and the most likely part of Kin he'd hit is her tail, which wouldn't affect her much. If he chases, she should be able to stay ahead of him and reach the exit first, and once she's out and her fog goes away, Kore's fog will turn everything white and trigger the trap on him.

[Traab]

I have to admit im curious to see just what she will do next. I mean, we dont know how high level she is now. She may have been grinding a lot of levels in the maze before leaving so she has more than just some awesome loot. And awesome loot was almost enough for forgath to beat kore to death. She has had multiple runs and time to plan out the loot she will take to max herself out.