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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Draconi Redfir's Avatar

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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Pretty sure that's not cannon to the comic, it's made to balance the card game, not to explain what's going on in the world. he COULD be lelvel 15 in the comic, but the card game is based in alternate realities on principle, so "Our" Kore may be different.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    Pretty sure that's not cannon to the comic, it's made to balance the card game, not to explain what's going on in the world. he COULD be lelvel 15 in the comic, but the card game is based in alternate realities on principle, so "Our" Kore may be different.
    I'm pretty sure that he's between 14 and 20, since if he was epic the comic would have been over long ago. And that's all I know lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Oh. Btw you'd think Holy Sword would only give a weapon the special enhancements and abilities, not actually turn it into a sword.
    Actually, it is still an axe, but it is has the image of a sword superimposed on it. Just like those chains aren't really there just a magic effect. It was just the cool look he was going for.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    The revised version of the artwork has been posted, but we don't see the corruption affecting the panel borders. An oversight or is Tarol not bothering to show that anymore?

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Oversight. Thunt tweeted about it awhile ago, he was so focused on detailing the page her completey forgot the corruption stuff.
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Quild's Avatar

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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Thunt also twitted a few days ago that he wands/needs to change the art in order to make it faster to draw and have a better update schedule.

    I'm on the fence on this. The update schedule doesn't bother me much, but on the other hand, I care more fot the story than for the art.
    Posting from France
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    Thunt also twitted a few days ago that he wands
    Casters, should never wand. They are needed for Damage/Heals.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    needs to change the art in order to make it faster to draw
    You mean it won't look like semi-molten wax/putty ?

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Big question right now is Did Minmax learn Grinnorarcen's name back in the Maze of Many?
    Hello world. . .

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by archon_huskie View Post
    Big question right now is Did Minmax learn Grinnorarcen's name back in the Maze of Many?
    You really think Minmax would remember a name like that? At best he would butcher the pronunciation to the point it would be unrecognizable (and probably not work.)
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2016-11-08 at 12:28 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by archon_huskie View Post
    Big question right now is Did Minmax learn Grinnorarcen's name back in the Maze of Many?
    I wouldn't assume that demon has the same name in all the universes. Not sure about that, though.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Minmax has the same name in each. So did Kin
    Hello world. . .

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Murk View Post
    I wouldn't assume that demon has the same name in all the universes. Not sure about that, though.
    He found a book.

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    I've been having a glance at Thunt's twitchs and...

    Well, I'm not an artist(*), but, isn't he drawing very, very, very slowly?
    The last video is 3 hours long long for the inking of two panels.
    Okay, the drawing part on this video is not 3 hours long at all, but still...

    I got drawings made by authors of comic books I read, and I've always been amazed by how quickly they can draw something on demand. In 10-15 minutes, I get very nice full page drawings, and this from different authors (with a notable exception of a korean mangaka taking way too much time for any drawing).
    First crayon drawings, then inking, on paper!
    I remember asking for a barbarian character once (she's a little girl, I asked to have her drawn as an adult), and she was drawed with her hands in pockets. I was disappointed because I would have liked her with her axe. The drawing was almost complete, but the author managed to draw her axe fixed in her back with a strap. Easily. It was very impressive.

    So considering what I see from mangakas (one chapter of 10-12 pages per week), from french comic authors (usually 6-10 pages a month) or from live drawings I've seen, I'm really surprised by how slow Thunt is.
    Am I just used to pros that go unusually fast?

    (*) For once, a sentence starting by "I'm not" is true.

    Edit: For instance... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s-3jrkqJ8c
    Obviously took more than 5 minutes, but I guess it's pretty fast anyway.
    Another drawing from same author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAwifOfzfb4
    Only 20 minutes for the drawing part.
    Last edited by Quild; 2016-11-14 at 05:51 AM.
    Posting from France
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    Thanks to neoseph7 for my avatar (Allen Walker from D.Gray-Man)

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    I think it depends on many things. Some styles might be faster, some might be slower. Manga faces tend to have a very clean outlook and few lines, so I guess that makes them faster to draw. There are some of the early strips of Tex in which Galep was clearly in a hurry to draw as fast as possible and reduced detail to a minimum, letting the eye of the reader fill out the detail; he could do this because of a rather realistic style. Goblin doesn't give much room in this direction.

    The other thing I can think of is that many, if not most, published comics are the result of a collaboration of penciler, inker, colourer, and letterer, with possibly an external figure as screenwriter. So a single person going full page may be slower than expected.

    Finally, some hands might be faster than others.

    I don't really know what he does, since I never follow his live drawing. But if I read some of his anxiety correctly, part of the slow output could be due to the fear of screwing up the story, and making a lot of rechecks with what he has projected.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Draconi Redfir's Avatar

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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    he is trying to remove some time consuming details to speed up his drawing a bit. so don't be surprised if a few things appear differently in the next page.
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Thunt is pretty obsessive. I don't know if he still does this, but the classic summary of why Thunt takes so long is...you know how most of the characters have sorta pointillistic eyes? Yeah, he would fill all those points in individually.

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    The thing is, that on the last stream (here), he was only inking a page.

    If you check for instance what he does between 1h30 and 1h55... I find it just ridiculous. The result at the end of a page is really good, and I really find the art of a finished page very nice, but it almost hurts me to see what Thunt has to go through to make a page.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lethologica View Post
    Thunt is pretty obsessive. I don't know if he still does this, but the classic summary of why Thunt takes so long is...you know how most of the characters have sorta pointillistic eyes? Yeah, he would fill all those points in individually.
    Heard that before and I thought he wasn't doing it anymore, but you can see him doing that around 57 minutes. Guess it was worse and longer before.
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  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Just to add a bit to the conversation out of nowhere, because I have a thing of efficiency and comic drawing:

    Even as a slow artist, I feel like he is often moving in slow motion. There are reasons for it, I think. He doesn't seem to ever concentrate on drawing, as his wife is there, he's streaming and chatting with people, eating, hanging out with his children, etc etc. It will take me 15-20 hours per page, but I shut absolutely everything out to get it done(and I am slow). Assuming he is working 8 hours a day every day on just this, it must take him something like 60-100 hours of work per page. No amount of obsession would normally account for that, particularly given the character designs(in that it's a cartooned style and it is hard to tell when a goblin doesn't look right), and amount of experience he has doing this.

    I'm probably a bad comparison, as it isn't what I do for a living, but compared to other professionals, he isn't even in the same universe when it comes to speed. As a reference, a friend of my is professional and produces 72 pages per month with, I believe, 3 or 4 assistants. I know, similarly, that the author of Cat's Eye was drawing that at a rate of 72 pages per month with 4 assistants. Obviously, the more popular comics will have more assistants.

    Comic artist is a rough job here. Companies chew up and spit out artists at almost a whim. People who can't produce at least 22 pages per month by themselves simply won't make it. I would guess not having that hanging over your head would leave you not quite as desperate to get things out quickly?

    He does tend to have more panels per page than a typical comic, BUT, there also tends to be less detail per page(for example, the previous three pages haven't had much background to deal with, and there are a ton of head shots).

    All that said, why would he really want to draw faster? He's well-supported drawing at this speed. I guess people get upset with him about it, but without an editor breathing down one's neck, I feel like just about everybody would choose a slower pace and apologize as needed.

  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by glitchytsuki View Post
    All that said, why would he really want to draw faster? He's well-supported drawing at this speed. I guess people get upset with him about it, but without an editor breathing down one's neck, I feel like just about everybody would choose a slower pace and apologize as needed.
    This is something I've been thinking about, he currently makes 1.260 dollars per page. If he were to make one and half a page in the time he now makes one, or even double up, would people still be willing to pay that much for a page or would they start paying less per page, since the thing would get costlier? There must be a sweet spot somewhere where you get the maximum money per month.

    I mean, let's suppose that Bunny First pays 1 dollar per page on Patreon. Right now, that's I think 1 and half dollar a month. Let's assume that Thunt suddenly does what I would do, which is: "If every page gives me a grand, I'll start mass producing them and become RICH!". Thunt, driven by greed, starts pumping out one page a week. Bunny is now paying 4 and half dollars per month. Bunny thinks, "I can take it, it's cool".

    Thunt now thinks like an investor. He hires five artists, he does pencils and screenwriting, but he now has two inkers, a colorist, a shader, and a letterer. He's now churning out one page a day, which means 30.000 dollars a month, and can pay his employees 15 dollar per hour (it's a random number, I have no idea of wages for artists, especially in Canada).

    After the first week, however, Thunt sees the support for his comic decrease, because people are paying him 30 dollars a month, and that's too much for them to afford. People who paid 5 dollars per page now have to downgrade or stop, because it's 150 dollars per month which they are paying. Bunny First stops paying altogether.

    After some attempts at publicity, Thunt realizes that Goblins is a niche comic, and that the niche already is almost fully occupied, so there can't be many new readers: the comic is well known among fantasy enthusiasts and roleplayers.

    In the end, Thunt has to settle for changing the setting from "page" to "monthly". He gains a bit more than before, but nowhere near 30.000 dollars, and only has one co-worker.

    So I'm wondering where that spot is where you gain optimally from the amount of work you do. I don't know if he would gain more by doubling production.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    So I'm wondering where that spot is where you gain optimally from the amount of work you do. I don't know if he would gain more by doubling production.
    If that's the case, he can just spent his time doing another lucrative activity. When you are paid by result (not by the hour), getting it done in the least amount of time possible is always the best scenario.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by glitchytsuki View Post
    All that said, why would he really want to draw faster? He's well-supported drawing at this speed. I guess people get upset with him about it, but without an editor breathing down one's neck, I feel like just about everybody would choose a slower pace and apologize as needed.
    My understanding from his blog and twitts is that he does want to draw faster and is not satisfied with either how long time he needs to draw a page, nor the schedule update.
    Why? I don't know among the many reasons. But he still wants that.

    I, for one, am not upset at all about the update speed. It's more for Thunt that I'm worried. He shouldn't spend that much time on such work (reading your own experience was very interesting by the way).
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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Thunt get paid per update via his Patreon account. Maybe he feels he needs more money?
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2016-11-17 at 02:19 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    Thunt get paid per update via his Patreon account. Maybe he feels he needs more money?
    This is thunt, he has breakdowns over people being cheated from things only tangentially related to him. I doubt its about the money, and in fact would be willing to bet its that he thinks we are disappointed waiting so long between updates and that bothers him a lot.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Look, a page!
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    i wonder if the cheifing ceromony would even work since it was already done one Dies Horribly. I mean, he was never actually made into a cheif, so it's possible?
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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Wow, he can make a copy of oblivion sword. Wonder if it is as strong.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Wow, he can make a copy of oblivion sword. Wonder if it is as strong.
    That was minmax and kickasso playing with their characters while the GAP worked out what to do next.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    But what if they tried that in real life?
    Hello world. . .

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Quote Originally Posted by archon_huskie View Post
    But what if they tried that in real life?
    Judging from the the way Complains was yelling at him, Minmax's imaginary crown of plus a swillion charisma didn't seem to work in real-life. Minimax couldn't even convince Fumbles that the crown existed. Given that, I don't think we can expect that the second Oblivion sword would exist.

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: Goblins XVI: Corrupted to the Kore

    Since Oblivious is powered by obliviousness, it would be fun if Fumbles could indeed summon it too without making a big deal of it.
    Posting from France
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