Lord of the Sevenfold Shadows(COUNTERING FAMOUS OPTIMIZED CHARACTERS BUILDS)

[One Step Two]

Analyse Dweomer(I know every contingency spell on you) + Daley Twin Greater Arcane Fusion
+Twin Greater Arcane Fusion
Slot 7: Sanctum Greater Celerity
Slor 4: Twin Celerity

6 Standard Action + 2 move speed:

Its only a Ice Assassin.




Man, you really had a great tactic. Congratulations, I thought that no one would challenge me.
But I honestly think Vecna-blooded and mind blank was enough.

Woah ho, hold on here kids, did I just get him to admit defeat? I think I did! Internet Cookies and Burgers for all!

[ragevillain]

Man, you will not necessarily die. Imprisonment , Greater Betow Curse . I can cast Supernatural Trap the Soul.
And if you die , your soul will be trapped . Effect of Death Giant.(MM3)

Woah ho, hold on here kids, did I just get him to admit defeat? I think I did! Internet Cookies and Burgers for all!

This character can not win the Master of Shadow in direct combat . It is inefficient.

[ryu]

Woah ho, hold on here kids, did I just get him to admit defeat? I think I did! Internet Cookies and Burgers for all!

Sadly I'm pretty sure that only looks like he was admitting defeat due to poor communication and was actually intended as more gloating.

Edit: See?

[One Step Two]

Man, you will not necessarily die. Imprisonment , Greater Betow Curse . I can cast Supernatural Trap the Soul.
And if you die , your soul will be trapped . Effect of Death Giant.(MM3)

This character can not win the Master of Shadow in direct combat . It is inefficient.

Sorry friend, too late, I have your admittance recorded, but like I said, thanks for playing. I asked specifically about your tactics, you only started adding caveats once I had you locked down. Better luck next time!

Edit: Why should I bother fighting you in direct combat? You never agreed to rules regarding an arena of any kind. Tsk, the Mackerel in Shallows is such a poor loser.

[ryu]

Sorry friend, too late, I have your admittance recorded, but like I said, thanks for playing. I asked specifically about your tactics, you only started adding caveats once I had you locked down. Better luck next time!

Also I had response on you at the end of last page. If you have an answer to that I'm fully prepared to take this rabbit hole even deeper.

[ragevillain]

Sadly I'm pretty sure that only looks like he was admitting defeat due to poor communication and was actually intended as more gloating.

Edit: See?

I have not been defeated, in fact never been near it. But rather I liked his tactics,
Mind Blank
Psion Mind Blank
Vecna ​​-Blooded
Are all counters . And this character can not win a duel directly, it is inefficient.

[One Step Two]

Also I had response on you at the end of last page. If you have an answer to that I'm fully prepared to take this rabbit hole even deeper.

Yes, I did actually, see what do you do when it comes to the text in Hypercognition regarding Echoes of Knowledge in the Astral plane. And, follow up question, What Happens if I start making consecutive hops backwards in time, and use Hypercognition, before said history fades?

[JNAProductions]

I have not been defeated, in fact never been near it. But rather I liked his tactics,
Mind Blank
Psion Mind Blank
Vecna ​​-Blooded
Are all counters . And this character can not win a duel directly, it is inefficient.

Except none of those counters actually work.

And in addition, it's more efficient to just wipe you from existence. Actually fighting directly is inefficient, if anything.

[ryu]

Yes, I did actually, see what do you do when it comes to the text in Hypercognition regarding Echoes of Knowledge in the Astral plane. And, follow up question, What Happens if I start making consecutive hops backwards in time, and use Hypercognition, before said history fades?

Problem is that if the history is stricken it's stricken all the way back. Causality is kinda hilarious like that. You aren't just wiping books and minds now. You're wiping all knowledge that ever existed of you from history. By necessity it's a temporal concept.

[One Step Two]

Ah I didn't see this! But that's the thing. It's worth 0 copper until someone tries to use ice assassin or the like. Then it becomes demanded, and therefore the price matters. It's Schrodinger's fingernails. They may not be willing to pay it, but it becomes a demanded item with a set price. There are many items in d&d that aren't worth the price, and no one would want them because there are other things that are considered better, but the price remains the price even if no one buys them.



As I mentioned just a moment ago, the key is for the item to be both worthless and priceless at the same time, so I feel that transforming into something like an angel would actually hurt the survivability because it makes it affordable.

Sorry LTwerewolf, didn't meant to miss this question.

You're totally correct in that it applies a value to the item in question, but it at least stops someone pulling out your toenail from their newly purchased spell component pouch. Collapsing the Schrodinger's fingernail wave stops only half the abuse.

[ragevillain]

Except none of those counters actually work.

And in addition, it's more efficient to just wipe you from existence. Actually fighting directly is inefficient, if anything.

There is no other choice, the enemie have to fight directly.

[JNAProductions]

There is no other choice, the enemie have to fight directly.

Why is there no other choice? They are quite capable of finding out who your mother was, going back in time, and taking her out. (Hell, they don't even need to kill her-they just need to make sure that she and your dad don't marry or have sex or anything.)

[One Step Two]

There is no other choice, the enemie have to fight directly.

Actually I don't have to. That's why i have already won. Heck, I just figured out a great way to do it nonviolently too! I go back in time and cast Greater Bestow Curse on the Mackerel of Shallows mother, so she can't conceive children.

[ragevillain]

MindBlank
Psion, Mind Blank
Vecna-Blooded
You have no other choice.
I will find you: Metafaculty
I will know everything about you: Supernatural Ice Assassin of yourself +Mindrape
Shadow Weave Magic. No dead magic

[One Step Two]

Problem is that if the history is stricken it's stricken all the way back. Causality is kinda hilarious like that. You aren't just wiping books and minds now. You're wiping all knowledge that ever existed of you from history. By necessity it's a temporal concept.

Alright, this is where I start reaching into somewhat third party material, There's a set of spells from the Dragonlance Campaign specifically to do with viewing time, or "viewing the river", if I were to use such spells to look back across the years, and witness events, adding it to my current memory, does it no-longer exist?

[One Step Two]

MindBlank
Psion, Mind Blank
Vecna-Blooded
You have no other choice.
I will find you: Metafaculty
I will know everything about you: Supernatural Ice Assassin of yourself +Mindrape

I asked this before, but how are you casting Metafaculty?

[Beheld]

MindBlank
Psion, Mind Blank
Vecna-Blooded
You have no other choice.
I will find you: Metafaculty
I will know everything about you: Supernatural Ice Assassin of yourself +Mindrape

Again, what do you do when they are a 15th level Wizard who has cast Mindblank? Go cry in the corner because your 20th level cheese creature can't even find any 15th level Wizard in the game?

[ryu]

Actually I don't have to. That's why i have already won. Heck, I just figured out a great way to do it nonviolently too! I go back in time and cast Greater Bestow Curse on the Mackerel of Shallows mother, so she can't conceive children.

Let's see how you deal with this. A near infinite army of ice assassins invisibly defending each and every one of my ancestors throughout the past all the way to the beginning of time itself. You can't kill my ancestors because I got to them first.

Edit: I believe they would still delete with each cycling. Alternatively the information doesn't exist to be found.

[ragevillain]

I asked this before, but how are you casting Metafaculty?

Mental Pinnacle(60 ML) + Metafaculty item
I will find you and know everything about you.

Detail, you do not have access to level 9 spells and also has no foresight . So it's easy to target.

[Beheld]

Mental Pinnacle(60 ML) + Metafaculty item
I will find you and know everything about you.

* Unless you cast Mindblank, in which case the Mackrel of Shadows is totally worthless and can never do anything.

[ragevillain]

Metafaculty think you anywhere.

[LTwerewolf]

Let's see how you deal with this. A near infinite army of ice assassins invisibly defending each and every one of my ancestors throughout the past all the way to the beginning of time itself. You can't kill my ancestors because I got to them first.

Edit: I believe they would still delete with each cycling. Alternatively the information doesn't exist to be found.

I think this right here just means whoever starts first wins in a temporal game of rocket tag.

[ryu]

I think this right here just means whoever starts first wins in a temporal game of rocket tag.

Technically it's a matter of whoever manages to do that BEFORE angering anyone who can teleport through time.

[One Step Two]

Let's see how you deal with this. A near infinite army of ice assassins invisibly defending each and every one of my ancestors throughout the past all the way to the beginning of time itself. You can't kill my ancestors because I got to them first.

Edit: I believe they would still delete with each cycling. Alternatively the information doesn't exist to be found.

Okay, so this is where it gets interesting. I go back in time observing your various direct ancestors, finding one with weak will. I use a Trap the Soul spell on an object in their home along with a Sympathy spell keyed to them while they are out. and craft a contingent Teleport Object to go off once their soul is trapped, and I head home knowing their family line is ended.

[Beheld]

Metafaculty think you anywhere.

Metafaculty
Clairsentience

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, clairsentience powers are equivalent to powers of the divination school (thus, creatures immune to divination spells are also immune to clairsentience powers).

Do I need to quote Mindblank?

Your entire character concept is based on an Item of a 9th level power (that you can't manifest without this item) and the power doesn't even do what you think it does...

Well, you set a new low in pathetic attempts at optimization, I give you that.

I mean, unlike your character, One Step Two's actually can manifest 9th level Psion powers, so he can like, actually use Metafaculty himself. If you think Metafaculty beats Mindblank, then why isn't everyone else Metafacultying you?

[ryu]

Okay, so this is where it gets interesting. I go back in time observing your various direct ancestors, finding one with weak will. I use a Trap the Soul spell on an object in their home along with a Sympathy spell keyed to them while they are out. and craft a contingent Teleport Object to go off once their soul is trapped, and I head home knowing their family line is ended.

Ah but see that is just a method of attacking the ancestor same as any other. Either dispel the object before it can be used or destroy and replace with a copy during a time-stop. You're not killing grandpa billy ryu the third esquire that easily.

[LTwerewolf]

Technically it's a matter of whoever manages to do that BEFORE angering anyone who can teleport through time.

Still leaves ancestors relatively vulnerable to indirect attacks though, so without warning them in any way you would need to find a way to make them entirely invulnerable as well. Problem is that they would eventually figure out their nigh immortality though, which would change history and cause a butterfly effect.

[ryu]

Still leaves ancestors relatively vulnerable to indirect attacks though, so without warning them in any way you would need to find a way to make them entirely invulnerable as well. Problem is that they would eventually figure out their nigh immortality though, which would change history and cause a butterfly effect.

No. They're only protected from deaths that didn't originally occur.

[Zanos]

I'm actually gonna throw my weight behind hypercognition not working here. The power indicates that it makes deductions based on scraps of information. While being vecna-blooded doesn't ward against clairsentience powers, a vecna-blooded character has had all information about themselves erased from reality by the god of secrets. They're shouldn't be anything to go on if the character has been careful since they got close to Vecna.

Also, hypercognition, as rules text, states that it gives "stray bits of information about a person." Unfortunately the exact functioning of the power is very up in the air due to what it does, but I don't think anyone sane would allow you to compile "stay bits of information" into a complete picture of all the persons strength, weaknesses, and other abilities, regardless of how many times you manifest the power.

Also, mind blank does block clairsentience powers. The text of metafaculty indicates that such is the case. You don't need to target someone with mind blank for it to not work either. Anytime a divination spell or effect is used to gather information about the subject of a mind blank, it fails.

[ryu]

I'm actually gonna throw my weight behind hypercognition not working here. The power indicates that it makes deductions based on scraps of information. While being vecna-blooded doesn't ward against clairsentience powers, a vecna-blooded character has had all information about themselves erased from reality by the god of secrets. They're shouldn't be anything to go on if the character has been careful since they got close to Vecna.

Also, hypercognition, as rules text, states that it gives "stray bits of information about a person." Unfortunately the exact functioning of the power is very up in the air due to what it does, but I don't think anyone sane would allow you to compile "stay bits of information" into a complete picture of all the persons strength, weaknesses, and other abilities, regardless of how many times you manifest the power.

Also, mind blank does block clairsentience powers. The text of metafaculty indicates that such is the case. You don't need to target someone with mind blank for it to not work either. Anytime a divination spell or effect is used to gather information about the subject of a mind blank, it fails.

But wouldn't that mean we're not having a good old-fashioned time war? Every time-traveler must experience at least one.