What happens if a Sorcerer actually studies their magic?

[GreyBlack]

Necroticplague has the right idea but can I try a simple analogy?

There are natural athletes and those that have to work for their skill. Both have to work to improve upon what they have, but the naturals tend to have a smaller toolbox than those that have to study for it. Let's say Brett Favre vs. Peyton Manning for those that know football.

And then there's Eli, who's the bard. XD

[khadgar567]

What kingdom hearts reference did he make?

the whole monster univercity thing I just use kingdom hearts as unified exemple for disney universe

[bahamut920]

If you're talking about a sorcerer who studies magic academically in the same manner as a wizard, then I'm going to agree with the people saying "arcanist retrain" or "ultimate magus". Those classes model the result of a sorcerer blending his natural arcane talent with academic study.

I picture a sorcerer developing his powers as being sort of like how anime martial artists develop theirs; by pushing their limits. A sorcerer goes out and shoots trees with scorching ray or puts on a play for all his buddies with major image; stuff like that. Through that testing of their limits and practice of their abilities, the sorcerer gains a deeper understanding of magic in general.

Another analogy would be that a wizard is a musician who learned to play at Julliard, while the sorcerer is a musician born with perfect pitch and the ability to "play by ear". Both had to learn how to actually play their instrument(s) of choice, but the wizard took the methodical route with lots of book learning, whereas the sorcerer just picked up a guitar and plunked around until he started making music. He might have listened to music on the radio and imitated the songs for his first bits of music, but he's still putting in the effort and learning things about music. They're just not the same things as the wizard, or learned in the same way.

[Andreaz]

Sorcerers meanwhile just coast on their own latent magical abilities and don't put the effort in to understand it better and wind up worse off.

You might want to rethink this stance. Their latent magical talent doesn't necessarily come without effort, or at least not always.
My view of it has always been that they naturally develop magic, but making any real use of it requires intensive training. It just isn't formal arcane training like a wiz's.

[Grim Reader]

The wizard is the engineer, the sorcerer the artist. A Sorcerer powers come naturally and to delve deeper into the nature of them, he does no more study than a painter learns differential equations to expand his art.

If a Sorcerer does want to investigate his powers in a methodical manner and studies the laws of the arcane, he has to go back to basics, learn the fundamentals of what was always instinct before. I.e. take a level of Wizard. From there on, its Ultimate magus.

That's my take on it anyway.

[Afgncaap5]

If a Sorcerer does want to investigate his powers in a methodical manner and studies the laws of the arcane, he has to go back to basics, learn the fundamentals of what was always instinct before. I.e. take a level of Wizard. From there on, its Ultimate magus.

That's my take on it anyway.

I could see a person going about it that way for a character, though a part of me dislikes the notion that academic study of an intrinsic practice necessarily requires a shift to the mechanics of how it works. Ultimate Magus feels right only if the sorcerer is also practicing a different kind of magic that's unrelated to the weird built-in magic that the sorcerer automatically has (or at least a different way of making it work, sort of like turning the same turbine but choosing whether to turn it with water power or geothermal power.)

Granted, that's just for me. It's a good solution, even if it's one I'd steer clear of.

the whole monster univercity thing I just use kingdom hearts as unified exemple for disney universe

Never played Kingdom Hearts myself. Do they have Pixar elements included, then? I'd never heard of them, but I could see it since there's a lot of interplay between Disney and Pixar.

[Secret Wizard]

My take on this: the Sorcerer gets ranks in Spellcraft. These are useful in several ways, besides the usual uses of the skill, as they allow the Sorcerer to access to feats that only a seasoned student of magic could do, such as Spell Perfection.

[GreyBlack]

thanks mate but you dont need kingdom hearts reference

Wait. Since when was Monsters Inc. Or University included in the Kingdom Hearts worlds? Did I miss this?

[khadgar567]

Wait. Since when was Monsters Inc. Or University included in the Kingdom Hearts worlds? Did I miss this?

Gonna be inculuded on newest game

[Psyren]

In addition to the "retrain as Arcanist" or "Ultimate Magus" ideas, Pathfinder has a third option for being a sorc/wiz hybrid - variant multiclassing. You could have a Sorcerer with arcane school powers and wizard discoveries that way, or a wizard with a sorcerous bloodline, either of which could be used to represent a hybrid without the deleterious effects of splitting your levels between two base casting classes.