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Thread: Erfworld 66: page 60
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2007-07-07, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
*Holds over-sized sword to your throat.* >: (
Just kidding! XD
Pretty much, stuff was as the speculation-peoples thought, with the near-miss of a lake hex. Instead of it being in the center of the donut as thought, it's where the B-dwagons are. Still, it merely whets our appetites for tomorrow (or whenever the Saturday update gets up.)
In any case, I'm glad I have Google Reader so I don't have to constantly refresh the main page, haha. :-p
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2007-07-07, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Yeah, this is basicly a summary of what happened.
It's good to know that Parson/Hamster respects his enemy all the same.
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2007-07-07, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
You do not?
It simple, he made Ansom react and be put in a position were Ansom is on the defense and do not forget he can see Ansom moves ...
So if Ansom pushes the air units over the column he hits him, if Ansom pushes the air cover over him then he hits the column.
If he just used the A group Dwagons then Ansom simply would cover the column with air units so he could only pull his "attack-retreat" trick once, now he is a position to either do it twice or go after Ansom himself at the cost of 3 Dwagons.
Also do not confuse Forest capable units with Forest only units, those units can attack and defend outside forest terrain.Last edited by Drakron; 2007-07-07 at 02:11 PM.
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2007-07-07, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Also remember, the cheif warlord of the coalition is now away from the column, and can only give orders Via vinny's hat, while at the same time he cannot recieve information or status reports until he gets back.
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2007-07-07, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Of course..water...the answer was staring us in the face from the first stupid meal. A great general leaves nothing to chance, Ansom was bound to counterattack the wounded Dwagons, so Parson set up bait in a manner to lose the fewest dwagon's possible while leaving Ansom blind to the real danger...
But in the style of great military minds, no matter what Ansom did, he was booped. If he didn't risk a counter attack, he would just get hit again...if he tried to punch through the ring he would lose many troops and barely had enough to reach the center and take on the wounded dwagons he thought were there...whatever side he chose to punch through, he would be hurt and depleted, and away from the column...
And as Parson said...even if Vinnie's bats had found the dwagons, Ansom had no units that could have attacked the hex with sufficient numbers to pose a real threat to 19 wounded dwagons. Absolutely brilliant.
attacking the column required the dwagon-warlord shuffle though, so the B-dwagons are unlikely to assault the column.
Possibilities...
SpoilerIt is unknown weather Parson has commited all of the Dwagons into this assault...if there are enough dwagons at GK, there is another possibility... Wanda could ride out with the remaining warlords and a healthy stack of Dwagons (I say Wanda cause she is obviously very powerful and could animate the dead forrest units into a skirmish party) and they could hit Ansom and company. We know the Dwagons have enough move to make it to Gobwin Knob even with attacking the column again, and last turn Wanda made it out and back to drop off Jillian, so the dwagons can move. This secondary dwagon force would take out Ansom (or force surrender and take the Arkenpliers) and free the A and B groups to hit the column in the same way they hit last time and remove the remaining seige units and other targets of opportunity.
Otherwise, it will be A and B converging on Ansom to P3wn his boop and then hitting the column before returning to gobwin knob...or a lake again. If they take out the head while they are away with all the forest units...the column might never know what happened...Last edited by Fuzzy_Juan; 2007-07-07 at 02:34 PM.
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2007-07-07, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-07-07, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
If I were Ansom and Parson had done that then I would've sent a kamikaze squad of gwiffonback warlord-led archers (if possible) to selectively re-croak Stanley's warlords while I spread out my remaining siege among the infantry. Unled dwagons would have to defeat every single enemy unit in a hex before moving on so the dwagon stack would grind to nothing if they tried to finish off the siege.
Ansom was expecting to get not only the warlords but also a significant portion of the dwagons. I'm surprised that he was putting himself in such danger; I'd been assuming that he and Vinny personally had more move than that. However, if things had gone according to plan, Stanley's strength would've been so broken that their rescue in a few turns (when GK fell) would've been a foregone conclusion.
Instead, Ansom is out of position, almost out of move and almost certainly out of attractive options.Last edited by Scientivore; 2007-07-07 at 02:48 PM.
My avatar is a remix that I made of Prince Ansom. Resource credit:
Snag some Erfworld avatars and backgrounds, make some lolerfs and motivators (or demotivators), read my Erfworld fanmix, or check out my latest spotlight on an under-discussed webcomic: Head Trip (Scilight #13)!
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2007-07-07, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Originally Posted by Toma02
With Paron's plan however, Ansom, Vinnie and many of the units that could be used to attack/defend against the dwagons are now stranded in the forest surrounded by dwagons who will be in full health next turn (and there is probably quiet a lot of anti-dwagons troops considering they were supposed to both kill the wounded dwagons and then defend agaisnt the B Dwagons)... Jillian, the gwiffons and the archons could cover either the coulmn OR Ansom; cover Ansom and the coulmn will suffer, cover the coulmn and Ansom will suffer. Parson has the option to either attack Ansom with the full force of all the dwagons, taking ansom and the arkenpliers, or he can attack the column which has less defence then it normally would have (taking fewer losses with the lower defence)... it may have cost Parson a few dwagons, but he would loose fewer dwagons in the long run and he is in a far stronger position now than he would have been if he followed your planLast edited by slayerx; 2007-07-07 at 03:40 PM.
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2007-07-07, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!
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2007-07-07, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
If I can metagame for a moment, I think it may still be too early in the narrative arc for Parson to win a decisive victory, or to croak or capture Anson and Vinny. After all, wouldn't the authors want to have a climatic scene at the end of the story, in which there is still uncertainty regarding which side will win? So it's just possible that Vinny will be able to pull a victory out of this disaster. We know Anson can't use the full power of the Arkenpliers, but what about Vinny? Suppose that in the coming battle, Parson attacks Anson and Vinny, and Vinny somehow discovers that he can attune himself to the Arkenpliers? This would give Parson and Team Stanley a very nasty surprise.
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2007-07-07, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
I'll agree that he's a prime canditate for getting one eventually, but
Spoilerthe ArkenPliers would not be my first guess. The ArkenPlier's apparent affiliation to Croakamancy on the Fate axis of Naughtymancy (based on its combat characteristics) suggests Wanda as a more likely linker.
My hope for SizemoreSpoilerbased on my mad theory I've discussed in an earlier thread is that he gets the ArkenWrench after Charlie (inevitably) loses it to Parson's maneuvers, and gets himself a nice Archon harem.
Of course, the most tangible evidence I have is that this explains why the ArkenHammer also turns Walnuts into Pigeons, which I've yet to see a coherent alternative explanation for. However, that's a very thin twig to build a theory from.
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2007-07-07, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Just a small point.
Suppose that in the coming battle, Parson attacks Anson and Vinny, and Vinny somehow discovers that he can attune himself to the Arkenpliers?
prototype00
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2007-07-07, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Don't let that stop you! Most of the ideas presented here are built on a solid foundation of thin air!
See?Now, Vinny definately LOOKS like a vampire, has vampire-related units uniquely his (bats), etc. But he PROBABLY isn't uncroaked, and (classic) vampire also has problems. Uncroaked seem to fall apart after a while, Vinny has not. He MAY be of the Unholy class (yet daylight poses no threat), or he may be a unique (named) character with the customizations that more or less attatch themselves to such or he may be a were-bat.
I'm saying the named character.Last edited by DCR; 2007-07-07 at 04:44 PM.
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2007-07-07, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
You DO realize that Ansom is close to win the war, if Gobwin Knob falls to Ansom its over ... this is not OOTS.
After all, wouldn't the authors want to have a climatic scene at the end of the story, in which there is still uncertainty regarding which side will win?
So it's just possible that Vinny will be able to pull a victory out of this disaster.
The Alliance CANNOT win this or this comic ends (or shifts into something that is not based on a tabelstop turn-based wargame).
We know Anson can't use the full power of the Arkenpliers, but what about Vinny? Suppose that in the coming battle, Parson attacks Anson and Vinny, and Vinny somehow discovers that he can attune himself to the Arkenpliers? This would give Parson and Team Stanley a very nasty surprise.
I know a lot of people come here for OOTS and now read Erfworld (same as me) but OOTS is based in D&D, Erlfworld on the other hand is not, its based on tabletop wargames.
Stanley only have one city left, Gobwin Knob and in wargames the moment you lose all your production centers you lose (unless you can capture/build a production center with surviving units) so the only thing that CANNOT happen is Stanley losing this battle.
That is why I find odd people rooting for the Alliance at this stage because if they win this is over.
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2007-07-07, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Originally Posted by fruityjanitorOriginally Posted by DreadArchon
Seriously. Ansom is Slateley's Chief Warlord, but de facto Commander of the column only by acclamation since he's the one who put the Coalition together. His diplomatic skills are probably as important as he military ones. If he gets croaked, it's likely that it would be the other high ranking warlords present, rather then a (distant) Overlord, who chose his replacement in that role, and Jillian hardly seems well enough liked to pull it off.
In fact, Ansom's possible demise raises an interesting question of whether he can be replaced even as Slateley's Chief Warlord in the field. Parson's Klog #5 notes that "infantry units can be promoted to warlords in the capital but it takes Mucho Schmukeroo." Does the same apply to to the "Chief Warlord" position? We don't know. He doesn't know, as evidenced by his own question "What happens if you croak or capture a chief warlord?" Doing so to Ansom will undoubtedly weaken the Jetstone faction, and quite probably the coalition as well if it doesn't shatter it entirely.
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2007-07-07, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Yeah, and it has been shot by the Stupid Meals saying there are only four Arkentools. Now, of course, the Stupid Meals are Stupid and not always accurate, as Parson himself noticed.
He looks like a vampire, but it hasn't been said yet that Erfworld vampires (or rather, vampire-looking guys) are really undead.
As far as I know, he only looks like a vampire because of Count Chocula. He's in the coalition that employs giant marshmallow peeps after all.Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!
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2007-07-07, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
am i the only one who thinks we'll get to cook some ansom-on-a-stick in few pages? well, i really hope so :P
also for vinny, he COULD use some more bats to scout farther than that...and THAT would have saved them all before goin into a crazy kamikaze-like strike with gump and elves to take un-finded wounded dwagon nest :P
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2007-07-07, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
the important note in the stupid meal is it says there are only four KNOWN arkentools, it most clearly to me has a caveat, it may be there are more than four but only four are commonly known of,
As for Parson, bank shot and win, personally as there are only so many fliers theyd have to be spread awfully thin or offer onesided protection on the column (protecting some siege but not all) its clear that this time he hits the siege again, maybe stays for a little more damage dealing then scrams all his forces back to GK as the closer Ansom gets, the easier it becomes to hit and run to GK and without siege GK should be quite quite safe,
if the air support was strung out to protect the siege id be tempted as parson to hit and run THE AIR UNITS taking them apart a few at a time piecemeal and stripping away another asset for the big battle
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2007-07-07, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
And would also
"Very Interestink."Spoilerset up a very nice Batman versus The Joker dynamic in the process. Come to that, Jillian Zamussels fondness for torture and Amazon Barbarian background could allude to Wonder Woman and the bondage themes from very early WW appearances, and Prince Ansom has at least some uperficial resemblances to the Man of Steel (handsome, strong, and not overly bright).
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2007-07-07, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
You missed a word: known. As in "Huh. There are four known Arkentools?" Which, combined with the demonstrated imperfections of Stupid Meal info and the Literary Axiom of Checkov's Gun, in turn suggests (a) all four known Arkentools will be identified by the end of Chapter II and (b) tangible evidence of additional Arkentools will be given by the end of Chapter III.
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2007-07-07, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-07-07, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Now I'll grant you that in most games, "Vampires" are aligned with "The Undead" as a faction, but so are "Necromancers" yet Wanda clearly is not Undead. In fact to me the specific use of the term "Uncroaked" implies resurrected or re-animated, and strictly speaking Vampires across the board need not be either of those. Bram Stoker's Dracula may have set that impression, what with sleeping in a coffin and all, but it's also made clear that he never died but rather cheated death through black arts, and there have been any number of other "Vampiric" characters who have done the same, or been simply been born/created in the role.
I'm mindful in particular of the finale of "Forever Knight"We don't know how or why Vinny became a Vampire, but the mere fact that he is does not preclude his being one of "the good guys."Spoilerin which after his partner dies, the coronor asks Knight to "bring her over" but he goes too far, and she ends up dead. No amount of "resurrecting" is going to bring either of them back, and realizing that he'll never reach his goal of becoming human again, he has his old mentor behead him.Last edited by ChowGuy; 2007-07-07 at 05:50 PM.
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2007-07-07, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Anyone noticed how kind and anime like parson looks in the top right panel?
Originally Posted by lavidor10
Who knows what you were thinking when your sword cut through
The wise old man on the throne of blue.
Now you have fallen, and destroyed a gate too,
But as you have found, in Azure City, throne cleaves you.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature
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2007-07-07, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Vinnie is not a named character, therefore he is more expendable. That does not make Ansom unexpendable, but Ansom is also involved in a love triangle with Jillian that probably makes him less expendable.
It's free to either do that or have another rule that allows for a group of armies/settlers without established cities. Or a third alternative: Parson could end up with another party. Not that I'm expecting either, but I'm not a fan of deterministic plot prediction. Think of it as Asimov's Mule. Predictability can be boring after a while.
Webinar strikes me as a warlord. He led troops and changed plans, as needed.
What inaccuracy are you referring to? I only recall them being educational.Last edited by rosebud; 2007-07-07 at 05:52 PM.
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2007-07-07, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Many hex-based games of this sort have the concept of "zone-of-control". That is: a stack cannot go through a hex controlled by an opponent or a hex next to an opponent without starting a fight ... and generally, cannot retreat through such hexes. Which means that the pincer formation covers 5 of the 6 hexes next to the enemy (the pincers plus their neighboring hexes). Which means that if you force the enemy's stack to retreat, you know exactly where it'll go.
Or, if you have another stack available, no matter how weak, that can stay out of the attack but block off that one route for retreat, for example a bunch of wounded units flying over a lake, then the opponent's stack is booped. It can't retreat, so it either wins or dies. And I'm not certain, but that's how I read the maps in frames 4 and 5.
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2007-07-07, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
There are only 5 gwiffons capable of reaching, and it took Jillian on a gwiffon and a flock of orlys to take out just one unled blue dwagon. Stanley has five warlords, so that approach seems unlikely to have worked.
I'm surprised that he was putting himself in such danger; I'd been assuming that he and Vinny personally had more move than that.
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2007-07-07, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Unquestionably. And probably Dora as well. But the question is can either of them simply assume the "Chief Jetstone Warlord" position in the field or is that something only Slateley can cofer? Be kind of like naming yourself "Chairman of the Joint Chiefs" without asking the prez. Not going to happen. Not even close, as MacArthur discovered.
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2007-07-07, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-07-07, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Okay I have to question why is Parson doing a pincer attack?
First off it was earlier stated in a post that flanking basically has no purpose in a hex map turn game especially in one with what erfworld mechanics we have seen so far. The only point in putting two stacks next to one stack in these types of games is to bring the the max number of units possible. This was done usually when one stack attacks an enemy stack all allied stacks will auto attack with you thus bringing in more numbers in actual flanking positions. However, this is clearly not the case which is illustrated by how the allied dragon stacks did not aid the 3 dragon stack hex. So what purpose does claiming that Ansom is caught in a pincer even serve? There is no purpose to split your stack instead it would be wisest to stack all the dragons into one big stack then attack. Before some claims of the stack bonus might I remind you 50+ dragons with +8 stack bonus is still stronger then 6-7 stacks with +8 bonuses which was shown when Ansom lead a combined attack to defeat 3 dragons.
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2007-07-07, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 66: page 60
Some thougths.
1. If Ansom gets croaked, how fast can he be replaced? Instantly (that is: on Stanley's turn) or not until Jetsones's turn?
2. If former, how much bonus will the troops lose?
Some Assumptions:
Ansoms warlord level should be at least a 9 or 10, this number is roughly the bonus a warlord provides to his troops;
This number splits about half to Combat and Defense.
Normal Defense and Combat stats are (like Bogroll's) less than 10.
Ansom is the best possible warlord for Jetstone in terms of Boni.
Maybe Parson want's to craok Ansom so his troops lose his bonus for at least one turn. That could multiply the damage. And with his new mathamancy toy he could predict the pros and contras of croaking Ansom and weaken the Army, but losing dwagons or attacking directly.
And it weakens the Jetstones until a warlord reached Ansoms level.