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Thread: Familiar: What is it good for?
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2016-09-01, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Familiar: What is it good for?
So I'm checking some caster builds and people actively suggest to use your familiar in combat to deliver spells or for flanking. XP-loss on familiar death aside, with half the hp of a caster (which are low enough already) and usually crappy AC, wouldn't it be killed instantly? Even if I didn't switch the familiar for a flashy ACF and had it stand on my shoulder and out of harm's way, a well-placed fireball would still burn it to cinders.
I'm aware that there are feats that improve your familiar somewhat, but why not some metamagic feats instead? So I'm asking, how do you guys use your familiars in combat?Last edited by NickTheGreek3; 2016-09-01 at 04:02 PM. Reason: typos
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2016-09-01, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
I think the preferred method is to just toss polymorph/other buffs on it, since spells are a less precious resource than feat slots.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
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2016-09-01, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Absolutely Nothing!
Say it again, y'all.
Sorry I had to.Last edited by dascarletm; 2016-09-01 at 04:01 PM.
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2016-09-01, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Bonus to Initiative? Share pain for extra hit points?
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2016-09-01, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Oh man, that reminds me, the wizard character in one of my games that just got Resurrected also has to deal with a dead familiar.
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2016-09-01, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
But if you're using polymorph, why not use it on yourself? Why not use summons if you want to send stuff into melee for that matter? They are usually better at the job AND disposable!
My point exactly!
Again, there are way better feats to get.Last edited by NickTheGreek3; 2016-09-01 at 04:10 PM.
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2016-09-01, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-09-01, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
You use a familiar because they share spells, unlike summons. You don't use yourself, because you are more valuable than the familiar.
Pretty sure they mean humming bird familiar. +4 initiative, no feat necessary. Stacks with war wizards to get improved initiative.Last edited by Boci; 2016-09-01 at 04:11 PM.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2016-09-01, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Dear Lord...
So basically you polymorph your familiar to something that can take punishment and cast touch spells through it? Reasonable enough, I guess, but you could use ranged spells and risk nothing - certainly not a creature that could cost you a f**kton of XP if it dies.
Wasn't aware of that. My bad.Last edited by NickTheGreek3; 2016-09-01 at 04:18 PM.
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2016-09-01, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
I generally keep familiars out of combat. But they can be useful. Getting a faerie dragon, for example, allows something that can deliver touch spells with great accuracy and it's a very useful messenger and scout.
Polymorphing it into a hydra is quite effective and allows you to still cast spells.
Familiars can also be equipped with items and can use its activated abilities. Having it use wands is the most effective way I know of to have it provide support.
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2016-09-01, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
Thread wins: 2
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2016-09-01, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Pretty much. You can use range touch spells, but they tend to be weaker than melee touch spells. You can turn melee touch into ranged touch, but only by investing feat for metamagic, and then you're paying higher level spell slots. So risk vs. reward. Polymorph your familiar into a war troll, send them in with max hp, and you can send them out when they get to half or something. There's some margin for error, but no guts no glory.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2016-09-01, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Things Familiars can be used for:
1) Aid Another all skill checks, and give you alertness. Your level 1 Wizard with zero ranks now has 4+Wisdom bonus to spot, you now get +2 on a bunch of skill rolls.
2) Raven Familiar speaks, at higher levels he can activate Wands each round on his action, thus totally balls to the walls worth having around, because extra actions.
3) Hummingbird Familiar gives +4 Init, that alone is better than most ACFs.
4) Buy a scroll of Imbue With Spell Ability, give your Familiar spells to cast during combat. Requires component management, but if Raven, can have verbal components.
5) Use the level 5 or 6 Wizard spell that let's you give even more of your spells to your familiar for him to cast. These can be any spells, because your familiar doesn't have to do the components.
6) Share or just straight up cast Personal range spells with your familiar, there's those weird polymorph subschool spells that act as replacement spells, turn your familiar into a Beholder, have him literally just use all of a Beholder's abilities, including infinite disintegrates for out of combat tunnelling and AMF cone on enemies trying to fly up to you.
7) Have your familiar be undead (can be lots of ways, spell that does it, ect.) Spell stitch it with Animate Dead and some combat spells, use your familiar to create your free undead army and also have SLAs to cast in combat.
8) Have a familiar with telepathy, have it spend a feat on mindsight, all the benefits without the feat cost, also you can turn it into forms with longer range telepathy without suffering the problems of being those forms yourself.
9) Level 17: Share Shapechange with your familiar, spends every single standard action shooting out a different supernatural attack from a monster with 25HD.
10) I guess you could have it deliver touch spells or something, if you wanted....
Also, Familiars get Improved Evasion, they basically can't die to a fireball unless that fireball also kills you.Last edited by Beheld; 2016-09-01 at 04:29 PM.
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2016-09-01, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Stalwart Battle Sorcerer familiars have Bard HP, and don't even get me started on the Dvati Stalwart Battle Sorcerer familiars, which have the same HP as their owners.
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2016-09-01, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Pathfinder has the 'figment' familiar, which if killed will return the next morning since it's a figment of your imagination...
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2016-09-01, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Most things you can exchange it for aren't really that good either... You know, if you're not a specialist conjurer.
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2016-09-01, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
Thread wins: 2
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2016-09-01, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
I mean, if you're going with PF, that raises the fact that PF actually has archetypes for your familiar. Seriously. Figment is one example. Another is the Mauler, which is specifically designed to transform into a stronger battle-form in combat. Another is the Protector, which is specifically designed to take hits for you.
There are non-combat uses, too. The Sage is basically a Pokedex. The School Familiar gets special Sp and Su abilities depending on your specialized school. And the Valet will be the Alfred to your Batman Wizard.
They're actually kinda more useful in some ways in PF, is the point.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
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2016-09-01, 05:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Have your familiar be a bird and fly above you to look ahead and hes out of harms way but you could give him some of your spells and graft small arms on him so he could hold components he needs for certain spells or he could have a skewer as a weapons and have him stab your opponents eyes as a sneak attack especially if you craft a collar for the bird that will telepathically link the two of you so you can give him orders on the fly without even speaking
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2016-09-01, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
In order from basic to advanced:
- Menial tasks. It can pick items up for you, press buttons, move on its own, etc.
- Minor bonuses: 3 HP on level 1 can be nice, as can any of the skill or save bonuses. You also get Alertness for both of you. Better bonuses such as Hummingbird's Initiative exist elsewhere, and Elven Wizards can double the bonus on level 3.
- Secondary perception rolls, complete with additional senses: Bat has Blindsense for instance. As familiar has your skill ranks, it can Aid Another you with almost anything, as well as give you second rolls for almost anything.
- Spell target. E.g. Benign Transposition (1st level spell) allows switching places with a friendly creature...such as your familiar that can potentially fly or whatever. Makes for a very versatile low level teleport.
- Spell duplication. Thanks to Share Spells you can do all sorts of cool stuff. Your familiar can e.g. carry a second Contingency.
- Secondary caster. The easiest way is to take ranks in Use Magic Device (e.g. Loremaster has it as a class skill) and give it Wands and Scrolls. There is also Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability and similar to give it actual spells.
Improved Familiar
- Feat platform. Psychic Reformation enables changing the familiars' feats (DM may also allow retraining them or picking them on acquisition as it becomes intelligent). There are some good ones, though Mindsight stands on top of the heap; a telepathic Familiar can make for a powerful radar indeed combined with shapechanging magic (strong enough without).
- Various spell-likes. Imps and Quasits get Commune 1/week, for instance.
- Some familiars (e.g. Pathfinder Faerie Dragon) are low level casters themselves enabling the use of Wands without UMD, and Scrolls with mere caster level checks.
- Type shenanigans. Outsider familiars open up Outsider Alter Self/Polymorph forms straight-up, for instance. These can be used for combat (though be careful; you don't want to risk the familiar dying), utility or whatever as per usual. Share spells makes it rather economical to share e.g. Polymorph in combat provided you stay close (or have Familiar Spellbond).Last edited by Eldariel; 2016-09-01 at 05:41 PM.
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2016-09-01, 05:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
I am so glad Path Finder gave players an alternative option to familiars .
Not all of us want to play with or be responsible for "pets" nor do we want such dire consequences if it kicks the bucket .
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2016-09-01, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2016-09-01, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
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- In the forest of my Mind
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Really ? Which book was that ? I never came across anything more than some fancy magic container to stuff it in and safe in your backpack .
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2016-09-01, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
Thread wins: 2
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2016-09-01, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
For specialist wizards, there's this: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...rdVariants.htm
(though the necromancer one merely gives you a skeleton, so same problem potentially)
For generalist wizards the only one I can remember off the top of my head is from the dreaded Dragon - Dragon 348 specficially, arcane re-absorption."It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2016-09-01, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
Thread wins: 2
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2016-09-01, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- Erutnevda
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Just wanted to add that if you're using Polymorph (but not Shapechange) on your familiar it keeps any Supernatural qualities (and spell-like abilities) such as an Imp's DR 5/good... or... DR with an alignment (or magic) are Su, DR with a material (or /-) are Ex, and I can't actually recall for the life of me where, if anywhere, it says how DR 5/good or silver falls.
Also there's the question of whether a familiar's natural armor increase carries over (I've seen it ruled both ways).
And yes you can trade a familiar for an animal companion of a druid 1/2 your wizard level (min 1; Unearthed Arcana, should be on the SRD), good at 1st level, if you're an arcane hierophant and end up going into Mystic Theurge before or after, also lacks that whole XP thing and can be resummoned the next day instead of a year laterPeanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.
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2016-09-01, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
Thread wins: 2
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2016-09-01, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
An arcane hierophant's familiar companion can, and makes you lose any familiar you have already, so if you're going Arcane Hierophant it's a buff. Also while they can't use wands, animal companions do have Share Spell, and there's a 1st party feat to increase the range to 30 ft so you can go double hydra without remaining adjacent to each other the whole time (which makes movement awkward).
Of course there's a Dragon Magazine Compendium feat to allow you to share spells from 1 mile away. Still if you aren't investing at all in your familiar it has its use.
Though I'd go with the Forlorn flaw if it was allowed.Last edited by Zaydos; 2016-09-01 at 06:39 PM.
Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.
Current Projects:
Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2
Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.
Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)
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2016-09-01, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Familiar: What is it good for?
Didn't know they got share spell. That makes the option less bad than I thought. Still wouldn't do it, but it's less immediately noped. Again my favorite trick is to get double dweomer vortexes on the first round plus an actual opening spell. It's a good way of being The Worst Person in a low level caster fight.
Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
Thread wins: 2