Puzzle and Dragons in the Playground XVII: Cross Your Hearts and Make Things Die

[obryn]

Doot de doo, been farming Gainaut for Fenrir reasons.

I mean, I've rolled three. I might as well join the jammer cancer army.

Looking at Fenrir//Fenrir/Fenrir/Jormungandr/Gainaut//Fenrir right now.

For real? Jammer meta? IT'S HAPPENING?!?!?

...how's it work?

[Fax Celestis]

For real? Jammer meta? IT'S HAPPENING?!?!?

...how's it work?

Well, Fenrir is "ATK x4 when simultaneously clearing 3 connected Jammer orbs. ATK x1 for each additional orb, up to ATK x10 at 9 connected orb. ATK x2 when attacking with 4 of following orb types: Fire, Water, Wood, Light & Dark. ATK x0.5 for each additional orb type, up to ATK x2.5 for all 5 matches."

So match 4 colors and connect 5 jammers for 100x. 9 jammers and 5 colors is 625x, though that's a tough one to pull. Still Jormungandr is a full-board-change for all colors + jammers, Fenrir makes 3 jammers and 3 darks and then gives 20%(!) increased skyfall for jammers for a turn. Gainaut is another full-board-change for all colors + jammers + hearts (plus a negligible fire enhance). And the team I listed is immune to skill bind, has 7 TEs, full color coverage, and four of the cards have god-killer. If I had a Fenrir Viz I'd pull one of the Fenrirs for him because of that double orb change, but without him the team is still pretty functional. It's just going to be weird to adjusting to running jammer cards.

You can even clear trash floors with just color matches or a 3-match or TPA of jammers.

Jammers Only	Multiplier
3	16x
4	25x
5	36x
6	49x
7	64x
8	81x
9	100x

Combos Only	Multiplier
4	4x
5	6.25x

Jammers Plus Combos	4 Colors	5 Colors
3	32x	40x
4	50x	62.5x
5	72x	90x
6	98x	122.5x
7	128x	160x
8	162x	202.5x
9	200x	250x

As you can see it can add up really fast. A jammer TPA plus a dark match is probably enough for most non-boss/miniboss floors.

[gooddragon1]

Why can't there be enhanced jammers?

[Fax Celestis]

Why can't there be enhanced jammers?

What's the point? They don't have any numerical effects themselves.

[gooddragon1]

What's the point? They don't have any numerical effects themselves.

So that they would have some numerical effect. Not much of one, but you'd get an extra multiplier. Maybe enhanced jammer awakenings could be twice as effective as normal orb awakenings. Jammer rows probably wouldn't be worth it though.

Mainly because it would be funny.

[obryn]

What's the point? They don't have any numerical effects themselves.

Right; that's the biggest issue with the whole "yay jammer" mechanic. Your x100 multiplier isn't giving the jammers themselves any damage.

I think there could theoretically be an Awoken Skill or an Awoken Latent at some point that says, "Jammers count as [Color] for this monster" which might lead in interesting directions. (Power creep from this: A monster with several of these, making jammers super-orbs for them, much like prongs went from "eh whatever" to core gameplay mechanic)

[obryn]

So that they would have some numerical effect. Not much of one, but you'd get an extra multiplier. Maybe enhanced jammer awakenings could be twice as effective as normal orb awakenings. Jammer rows probably wouldn't be worth it though.

You wouldn't, though. It still does nothing.

+orbs only enhance damage for the specific match. So a jammer match does 0 damage; increasing it by 50% is still 0.

Rows only enhance damage for the color you have a row of - so again, +60% of 0 is 0.

[Anarion]

Actually, enhanced jammers would be useful. If you had them and then used an active that turned jammers into a color, the orbs of that color would be enhanced. Relevant to match 5 one enhanced star gods.

[Fax Celestis]

Right; that's the biggest issue with the whole "yay jammer" mechanic. Your x100 multiplier isn't giving the jammers themselves any damage.

I think there could theoretically be an Awoken Skill or an Awoken Latent at some point that says, "Jammers count as [Color] for this monster" which might lead in interesting directions. (Power creep from this: A monster with several of these, making jammers super-orbs for them, much like prongs went from "eh whatever" to core gameplay mechanic)

I mean, yeah, the jammers don't do anything by themselves, but it's pretty trivial to match one additional color (esp. when Fenrir's active makes three dark orbs by itself).

[obryn]

Actually, enhanced jammers would be useful. If you had them and then used an active that turned jammers into a color, the orbs of that color would be enhanced. Relevant to match 5 one enhanced star gods.

Yeah, true! It's really super niche, tho.

I mean, yeah, the jammers don't do anything by themselves, but it's pretty trivial to match one additional color (esp. when Fenrir's active makes three dark orbs by itself).

I'll bow to your experience with the mechanic, when I have zero.

[Ionbound]

I just beat Athena Descended yesterday! So now I have an Athena and no idea what to do with her.

[Anarion]

Yeah, true! It's really super niche, tho.

Less than you'd think, I say as a frequent You Yu player. Star wake - Aqua is a very common active to use on You Yu teams, and I'd kill for all those preemptive jammers to somehow retain their enhanced orb state.

I just beat Athena Descended yesterday! So now I have an Athena and no idea what to do with her.

Keep her. Use her on a team if you want, until you get better stuff.

[obryn]

I just beat Athena Descended yesterday! So now I have an Athena and no idea what to do with her.

Athena is awesome for earlier content. For a while she was literally one of the top leads in the game. She's still a very solid farming lead, for easy/mid-range/old-endgame content in her Awoken form - basically Shiva Dragon Lite (and Light).

[Quietus]

Liu Bei Cheese Team? Do tell.

It's pretty basic, you lead with Awoken Liu Bei, and pile up generally three Zeus Dios and one green board change - Avalon Drake is probably the star option, with his three skill boosts, but I've got Gronia hypermaxed on my phone so I'm using her. Lots of options, but they're mostly there to get past combo guards.

The basic idea is to pair two of these teams together in Multiplayer, and trade back and forth popping a full board of green for 64x damage (plus 12 rows and a whole pile of enhanced orbs, I usually get 1.96x from the enhanced orbs alone) and wiping every floor. The team is very weak to skill binds, though, since Liu Bei and Zeus don't have any resistance to that.

Variations on this can be used for many dungeons; with a bicolor board on one team and a fast card (Leeza was the one I saw used for this first), plus three specific inherits (Ra, 25% gravity like Hathor, and Thanatos) you can reduce Myr's fancy dungeon to push button, only have to combo on one floor to get past a combo shield.

[Starwulf]

If anyone happens to see this while I'm awake(which I will be until 8 a.m. EST), I'd like to do a multiplayer dungeon to get that done for the quests thing. Nothing hard, just a daily dungeon or something that we can blaze through in a matter of moments really. Post up here, I'll be monitoring the thread the entire night.

[Academia]

Welcome back, Starwulf! Glad to see that all the new stuff is pulling people back in.

I've been farting around quite a bit, did a lot of farming stuff yesterday, quite a few MP monsters and latents for giggles. Today is going to be multiplayer Hera-Ur all day for Zeus skill up reasons, and will do more of the same when Zeus himself is here on the weekend. Team being functional is great, but screw everything, I want those Zeuses *maxed*. If I can reach that point, then I can use my Liu Bei cheese team in single player. Skill boost team badge means max skilled Zeuses only take three turns to come up, and conveniently I'll have two Liu Bei and a Gronia available to fill that time. Or I can use Avalon Drake instead of Gronia, for that extra skill boost.

Lol you are my only hypermaxed Liu Bei friend... Mine is up ^^ I just hit the breaking point where I can multi with my alt since my main and my alt happened to have Liu Bei...

Main: LB / GSonia / Perseus / Dios / Dios or Perseus or A. Freya
Alt: LB / GSonia / Avalon / Dios / Dios

Lol... I use my main team to block skill locks... But farming the Dios army is time consuming x.x...

For real? Jammer meta? IT'S HAPPENING?!?!?

...how's it work?

The nerd **** came out but got jammed....

Well, Fenrir is "ATK x4 when simultaneously clearing 3 connected Jammer orbs. ATK x1 for each additional orb, up to ATK x10 at 9 connected orb. ATK x2 when attacking with 4 of following orb types: Fire, Water, Wood, Light & Dark. ATK x0.5 for each additional orb type, up to ATK x2.5 for all 5 matches."

So match 4 colors and connect 5 jammers for 100x. 9 jammers and 5 colors is 625x, though that's a tough one to pull. Still Jormungandr is a full-board-change for all colors + jammers, Fenrir makes 3 jammers and 3 darks and then gives 20%(!) increased skyfall for jammers for a turn. Gainaut is another full-board-change for all colors + jammers + hearts (plus a negligible fire enhance). And the team I listed is immune to skill bind, has 7 TEs, full color coverage, and four of the cards have god-killer. If I had a Fenrir Viz I'd pull one of the Fenrirs for him because of that double orb change, but without him the team is still pretty functional. It's just going to be weird to adjusting to running jammer cards.

You can even clear trash floors with just color matches or a 3-match or TPA of jammers.

**CUT***

As you can see it can add up really fast. A jammer TPA plus a dark match is probably enough for most non-boss/miniboss floors.

This should be interesting to see! I have one of my own... But I also have a Gremory so Gremory wins for me lol. Now I just gotta practice my Myr for em cross formations.... I can make 7-8 combos on a messy board but I cant make crosses for the life of me T.T

You wouldn't, though. It still does nothing.

+orbs only enhance damage for the specific match. So a jammer match does 0 damage; increasing it by 50% is still 0.

Rows only enhance damage for the color you have a row of - so again, +60% of 0 is 0.

I mean, yeah, the jammers don't do anything by themselves, but it's pretty trivial to match one additional color (esp. when Fenrir's active makes three dark orbs by itself).

But but there's no time extensions! I feel like its harder than Hell Herald....

----

@Fax, I must see your skills now!!! Multiplayer one day? I heard you're a beast at reddit for multiplayer too ^^

[Fax Celestis]

Sure, we can multi. My Sarasvati team is my new love, so we can hit that on something.

As far as Fenrir, it has plenty of TEs, what are you talking about? Four from the four Fenrirs, two from Jormungandr, one from Gainaut. Should be plenty of time.

[Quietus]

If anyone happens to see this while I'm awake(which I will be until 8 a.m. EST), I'd like to do a multiplayer dungeon to get that done for the quests thing. Nothing hard, just a daily dungeon or something that we can blaze through in a matter of moments really. Post up here, I'll be monitoring the thread the entire night.

I'm headed to bed now, but if you don't get that addressed by tomorrow evening, I'll be happy to help. I can even make it super boring and push button Friday mythical, if you have a Goemon team.

Lol you are my only hypermaxed Liu Bei friend... Mine is up ^^ I just hit the breaking point where I can multi with my alt since my main and my alt happened to have Liu Bei...

Main: LB / GSonia / Perseus / Dios / Dios or Perseus or A. Freya
Alt: LB / GSonia / Avalon / Dios / Dios

Lol... I use my main team to block skill locks... But farming the Dios army is time consuming x.x...

Yeah, farming Dios has been a lot of stamina. Thankfully doing so multiplayer makes it easier, and I was able to start using my Liu Bei team to do so last time we had Dios dungeon. I'm jealous of your Perseus, by the way, I still don't have one. He'd be super useful to add some skill bind resists, I cludged in Chester on my phone to cover the 3 missing SBR. Works fine to clear Hera today. And on that note, my tablet account only needs one more Zeus skill up, and phone is five or six away. Since we'll still have 4x skill up for Dios dungeon when it arrives in a couple days, I anticipate having three max skilled Zeus by the end of the weekend.

You know, I remember a point in time when max skilling one of them sounded incredibly irritating...

[Jasmine]

Actually, that's two milestones in one, because unless there's a Dark Zeus dungeon now, that means I've beaten all the Zeus: Zeus, Zeus-Dios, Zeus Mercury & Zeus Vulcan.

There's a second normal Zeus dungeon now, and has 62 million hp!

While there are teams that can do 60 million in one turn (like You Yu), I think it's unreliable, especially with the quite strong floors leading up to it. You need to do 20 million to the chimeras first, so I think it's better to run an active or a team that can let you tank some hits.

Spoiler: Sara for mystic mask, Andro for chims, Hermes/I&I/Other Sara/Paulina for 100x each hard turn works too!

Show

Which leads are you using now starwulf? And yes, +eggs are so much easier... I feel bad for Jasmine for all her time grinding +eggs T.T... But now I think her box is full of shinnies xD.

"Oh you know, skillin up xmas ars paulina because I've convinced myself she's great for Sumire tho I'm probably wrong"

Spoiler: Lots of shinies, including Xmas Paulina!

Show

Also have 300k mp now, and no idea what to buy.

[Ionbound]

So...How does this Dream Team look? It's actually probably pretty attainable, assuming I can get together a team capable of running Scarlet reliably (which is a pretty big if, TBH). But what do people think? It is worth dreaming the dream? Or should I do something else?

[Fax Celestis]

So...How does this Dream Team look? It's actually probably pretty attainable, assuming I can get together a team capable of running Scarlet reliably (which is a pretty big if, TBH). But what do people think? It is worth dreaming the dream? Or should I do something else?

Why not Surtr or Goemon?

[Academia]

There's a second normal Zeus dungeon now, and has 62 million hp!

Spoiler: Sara for mystic mask, Andro for chims, Hermes/I&I/Other Sara/Paulina for 100x each hard turn works too!

Show

Spoiler: Lots of shinies, including Xmas Paulina!

Show

Also have 300k mp now, and no idea what to buy.

Sexy blues. I have a similiar team but it's so not hyper maxed x.x. I r so behind...

The blue EO on that Pualina is real...

Well, there's an upgrade from pulling nothing but Hades xD LOL That's a nice nice nice collection! I still have too many dupes x.x...

Btw, mind showing me your current teams? or just type it out.

[Ionbound]

Why not Surtr or Goemon?

Because the way I have things set up, I can open with Attack Stance fire on the first floor, and by the time that I cycle through the Scarlets, I'll have Attack Stance back up. Surtr's cooldown is a little too long for that to work, so...Yeah. No Surtr. And I don't like risking going down to one with Goemon since the team has really low RCV, so if something preemptives me, that's game over.

[Jasmine]

Well, there's an upgrade from pulling nothing but Hades xD LOL That's a nice nice nice collection! I still have too many dupes x.x...

Btw, mind showing me your current teams? or just type it out.

I think it's just the total collection is bigger, I still have plenty of dupes - 3 Paulinas, 3 Awildas, 3 Tsubakis, 3 Grodins, 4 Ras, 3 Ronias, 4 Kirins (3 of them consecutively), 3 Kanos, 3 Verdandis, 3 Thumbelinas, 3 Green Guan Yus, 4 Cinderellas, 3 Fuus, 4 Wedding Echidnas, 3 Leezas, 3 Wedding Liliths, and too many doubles to list.

Horus Dark - Satsuki, Hades, Lumiel, Vampire - Flex DIza, AYomi, or Gryps (Retired Beelz)
Horus Fire - AFreyr, Set, Cao Cao, New Years Horus (to be replaced with Horus Ace) - Flex Echidna

Tank Blue - AI&I/Andro, AHermes, Saravasti, Xmas Paulina - Flex Bonia
Normal Blue - Andromeda/AI&I, AHermes, Saravasti, Xmas Paulina - Flex Bonia
Pow Pow Blue - Saravasti/AI&I, AHermes, Andro, Xmas Paulina - Flex Bonia

Kirin - Valk, Verche, Apollo, Ra - Flex Wedding Liza, Maeda, Pollux, Dragon Rider, Roots
Farm team - Superman/Wedding Satsuki, Valk, Apollo, Leonis - Flex Kirin, Ra, Wedding Liza, Dragon Rider
^All attribute + 100% skill lock resist
Above are all hyper

Lady Gaga team - Rodin/ Ra, Ra, Ra, Ra
Goemon - based on dungeon, but can't use much in ones with preempts

New weak teams

Green Rows - Gvalk/Michael, Michael, Avalon, Wonder Woman
Fake Kaede - Fafnir/Michael, Michael, Verdandi, Verdandi
Ronove/ Supes, Kirin, Wedding Satsuki, Wedding Liza
Roots / Baldin, Kirin, Tsubaki, Cao Cao

[Academia]

I think it's just the total collection is bigger, I still have plenty of dupes - 3 Paulinas, 3 Awildas, 3 Tsubakis, 3 Grodins, 4 Ras, 3 Ronias, 4 Kirins (3 of them consecutively), 3 Kanos, 3 Verdandis, 3 Thumbelinas, 3 Green Guan Yus, 4 Cinderellas, 3 Fuus, 4 Wedding Echidnas, 3 Leezas, 3 Wedding Liliths, and too many doubles to list.

Horus Dark - Satsuki, Hades, Lumiel, Vampire - Flex DIza, AYomi, or Gryps (Retired Beelz)
Horus Fire - AFreyr, Set, Cao Cao, New Years Horus (to be replaced with Horus Ace) - Flex Echidna

Tank Blue - AI&I/Andro, AHermes, Saravasti, Xmas Paulina - Flex Bonia
Normal Blue - Andromeda/AI&I, AHermes, Saravasti, Xmas Paulina - Flex Bonia
Pow Pow Blue - Saravasti/AI&I, AHermes, Andro, Xmas Paulina - Flex Bonia

Kirin - Valk, Verche, Apollo, Ra - Flex Wedding Liza, Maeda, Pollux, Dragon Rider, Roots
Farm team - Superman/Wedding Satsuki, Valk, Apollo, Leonis - Flex Kirin, Ra, Wedding Liza, Dragon Rider
^All attribute + 100% skill lock resist
Above are all hyper

Lady Gaga team - Rodin/ Ra, Ra, Ra, Ra
Goemon - based on dungeon, but can't use much in ones with preempts

New weak teams

Green Rows - Gvalk/Michael, Michael, Avalon, Wonder Woman
Fake Kaede - Fafnir/Michael, Michael, Verdandi, Verdandi
Ronove/ Supes, Kirin, Wedding Satsuki, Wedding Liza
Roots / Baldin, Kirin, Tsubaki, Cao Cao

I live the Lady Gaga team LOL.

Yup shinnies are real! Btw, that Horus Ace and those "Ace" cards are actually coming to NA version? I know the Sunday Collabs are probably not gonna be here....

I just max skilled my 1st Dios on both main and alt account just now -.- Farm happy team with my own alt for MP farming is shaping up nicely lol.

Now Gremory team I need an opinion:

Gremory / A. Pandora / A. Pandora / --- (Then I have some options because I'm not gonna get Hua Xin anytime soon I don't think)

1. A. Yomi for the 3 TE awakenings and 8 turn base CD + inherit Apocalypse active (I'm leaning towards having this one)

2. Grimoire with her 4 EO with 6 turn base CD + inherit Apocalypse active, and her normal active generates dark orbs

3. Nephyths with her good awakenings and more spike damage and can inherit skills with low base CD - Similiar to Grimoire, but with 144x already I'm not sure I need this. I guess a base fonder?

4. Just farm and stick in 2 Z8 for almost 15% skyfall for dark orbs... and brings me up to my 4 haste monsters.

5. A. Okuninushi for delay.

Other options: A. Vitra, Lu Bu, Durga, Loki, Kakkab (Haste Dark Orb generator), Lucifer, Anubis of some sort...

Eventually I might get a Xin Hua and replace one for 3 - 4 haste monsters...

Which one!!! It's long term project so I got time lol. Still working on plussing my Myr.

[Erloas]

Well in the last day I got Zeus 297, though it cost me 2 stones. The team only had the HPs to survive the poison attack, but since he did that first I figured that would give me a shot. Was hoping I could one-shot him, the team has the potential to do it (ACC) but I didn't quite clear off enough locked orbs, and between those and the newly created locked poison I just couldn't get a super hit in. Since I still had actives I decided to use a stone hoping a good clean board would see me through but it fell a bit short. Second stone and fresh board gave me what I needed to finish him off. 2 stones for 297 is pretty good though, so I'm happy with it.

Finding a ACC a lot better than ALB so far. Probably a case of my subs, I have some good wood changers but they all have pretty mediocre HPs so the team just can't take a hit. While not great at least my ACC team has around 26k. Only thing my red team is missing is a good jammer&poison to red changer.

[Anarion]

Cleared Arena 2 with my You Yu team! I ended up inheriting Ara onto a sumire for the Predras, and then it took a few tries to get a combination near the end that was not complete BS. Failures included Ilsix into DQ Hera, and Ashiva into Lifive, but I cleared it with Threedia into DQ Hera.

I also nearly had a heart attack on the three piis because I had no actives left after Kali. I totally would have died to a bad skyfall, but fortunately got enough hearts.

Edit: team is my standard: You Yu (with Andromeda inherited)/Sumire/Sumire (with ARa)/Isis (with Indra)/Skuld/You Yu (I used Fax's).

[Fax Celestis]

Glad to be of service!

I'm still stunned at how crazily lopsided my blue box is against the rest of my box. I have a ton of blue heavy hitters, including Ryune, two Bonias, two Sumires, and Skuld. Meanwhile, the rest of my box? Like. I could make a red row team or a dark TPA or row team, but... Idk.

[Academia]

New Pantheon

Trailokyavijaya
God / Physical
Active: Deals damage equal to 20% of enemies' max HP (not current HP like gravities)
LS: No skyfall matches. 1.5x HP/ATK to Fire cards. 6x ATK/RCV after 8+ combos.

WTF!!!! Just stack 5 of these and RIP any boss. I have a feeling that GunHo is going to be have anti gravity measures soon...

Acala
God / Balanced
Active: +1 combo count for 1 turn. 1 turn haste
LS: No skyfall matches. 1.5x all stats to Wood cards. 3x ATK for each Cross Wood matches.

OP multipliers... You can form 3 crosses I believe?

And besides the gravity red... all of them can be system teams -.-....

[Erloas]

I find crosses a pain to match, though I suppose it would get easier if/when I actually try to do them more regularly. 15 of the same color orbs with enough other things to break up the crosses is not going to be easy, and actually getting those made is not going to be easy. I suppose if the previous stages aren't too bad something like Change the World could make the match pretty easy, but actually getting that far is going to be hard. 9x isn't going to be enough for many things without rows or TPAs. 81x should do great and it is hard but possible, I think worth the skill it would take. Yes, 729x is going to kill everything but it is a *bit* of overkill.

Having to have 5 of the same monster, and all skilled up, is not going to make it easy. Also not a great LD skill, at least not a great one for mere mortal players. And in the end, 20% damage isn't that great, sure it is good for an active, but with the very rare exception, it isn't going to be amazing damage, nothing many teams right now can't match. (is there any boss right now that can't be 1-shotted by a number of the stronger teams? Well resolution ones can't, but normal gravities will take care of most of them anyway if you really want to go that route.