D&D Multiclass Rules questions.

[Mcatanio]

Hello Everyone,

I got what I think is a simple question but is causing me confusion based on interpretation and wording of the player handbook 1-3.

I got a Runepriest, and was wondering if I Multiclass into Ardent by taking the Ardent Multiclass Feat will I gain the following "Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee,
simple ranged" as well as Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will?

So to reiterate, simple put when you multiclass do you gain the armor and weapon proficiencies and bonuses of the class you Multiclass with?

I just now thought I'd ask while I got someones attention. Multiclassing doesn't go any further then just taking Multiclass/Power Swap feats as your level correct ? There is none of this lvl 5 Runepriest, lvl 2 Ardent nonsense right ?

[MwaO]

Hello Everyone,

I got what I think is a simple question but is causing me confusion based on interpretation and wording of the player handbook 1-3.

I got a Runepriest, and was wondering if I Multiclass into Ardent by taking the Ardent Multiclass Feat will I gain the following "Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee,
simple ranged" as well as Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will?

So to reiterate, simple put when you multiclass do you gain the armor and weapon proficiencies and bonuses of the class you Multiclass with?

I just now thought I'd ask while I got someones attention. Multiclassing doesn't go any further then just taking Multiclass/Power Swap feats as your level correct ? There is none of this lvl 5 Runepriest, lvl 2 Ardent nonsense right ?

You get exactly what it says you get. Assuming we're talking about Fervent Talent, you get one skill from the Ardent list and once a day, you can use the Ardent class encounter heal power. That's it.

Right - you are just a member of the class that you start off with - you might choose to get a little bit of another class or get a lot(by using more power swap feats, picking a paragon path, or taking additional multiclass feats), but that's up to you.

Hybrid in PHB 3 is a little different - then you start off 50/50 in two classes.

[Dimers]

Hybrid in PHB 3 is a little different - then you start off 50/50 in two classes.

Just to be perfectly clear, OP, even then you'd be a "Level 4 Ardent|Runepriest", not a "Level 2 Ardent / Level 2 Runepriest" or something. 4e's multiclass and hybrid rules differ from all other editions' that way. You're never counting separate levels in each class.

As for this --

if I Multiclass into Ardent by taking the Ardent Multiclass Feat will I gain the following "Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged" as well as Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will?

I think that's a great area for homebrew, but not a single existing multiclass feat grants weapon proficiencies, armor proficiencies or defense bonuses. So ... [ snarky] to learn a single Wizard cantrip, I need to get accustomed to wands AND orbs AND staves AND tomes, but becoming more of a Fighter teaches me nothing about weapons or armor?[/snarky]

[NomGarret]

The hybrid rules are *most* comparable to 2e and earlier multi classing. You get roughly half of each class smushed together and they grow at the same rate. The biggest difference is in 2e you paid full xp for each class. You don't with 4e hybrids.

[Tegu8788]

Near the very end, Dragon released an article with Take a Level mechanics, but I've actually never seen anyone use it. I'd be curious to see how it's used, but I can only imagine how many ways it could make broken builds.

[masteraleph]

Near the very end, Dragon released an article with Take a Level mechanics, but I've actually never seen anyone use it. I'd be curious to see how it's used, but I can only imagine how many ways it could make broken builds.

Ridiculously broken builds, yes. Also, it was an Unearthed Arcana article, so it was never actually part of "the rules" so much as a suggestion for possible house rules.

[Yakk]

I find 4e homebrew useful and easy.

Ardent Soldier: Multiclass Ardent [i]Requires[/b]: Another ardent multiclass feat.

You gain proficiency with all martial and simple weapons and simple ranged weapons. Select an ardent at-will attack power of your level or less. Once per encounter, you may expend 2 power points or an encounter attack power to use that at-will power. You may augment it with further power point expendatures. You have an additional reserve of 2 power points you can spend once per day.

---

I think that is balanced, maybe underbalanced. You gain that broad proficiency (which is a weak feature, really, as superior weapon proficiency is usually a better idea).

The "reserve at-will" is an attempt to create something more fun than the typical "use an at-will once per encounter". It effectively gives you an encounter power once per day, with some bonus flexibility.

[MwaO]

I think that is balanced, maybe underbalanced. You gain that broad proficiency (which is a weak feature, really, as superior weapon proficiency is usually a better idea).

Superior Weapon Proficiency is actually likely a little weaker than Martial a lot of the time unless you're a specific build. Simply because Alhulaks, Rapiers, Ki Foci, and Expertise/Defense/MC feats exist.

And to a certain frightening extent, Daggers...

[alchemyprime]

Ridiculously broken builds, yes. Also, it was an Unearthed Arcana article, so it was never actually part of "the rules" so much as a suggestion for possible house rules.

Do you know which issue, by chance?

BTW OP, One of my backburner projects is fixing 4e multiclassing - or at least, making it a little more palpable. But then again, I am redoing nearly everything to incorporate as many variants as possible.

Either way, wish you luck on making this all work!

[MwaO]

Do you know which issue, by chance?

BTW OP, One of my backburner projects is fixing 4e multiclassing - or at least, making it a little more palpable. But then again, I am redoing nearly everything to incorporate as many variants as possible.

Is there something specific that you find wrong with 4e multi-classing? If anything, that's my favorite mechanical part of 4e is the combo of multi-classing and hybriding, with hybriding needing a couple specific tweaks involving armor and skills.

Namely, if either class has proficiency in any kind of light armor, you get proficiency with Leather. If either class has proficiency with any kind of heavy armor, you get proficiency with Chainmail. Then if both classes have a bonus skill of a specific knowledge skill such as Religion or Arcana, you can pick one of them.

And more specific, Battle Cleric's Lore proficiency with Scale/+2 to AC is considered part of Cleric's Armor proficiency.

[Yakk]

Offering the power-swap feats as one bundle would make it much more tempting. (Ie, you take one feat, and you gain the right to swap out your 2nd utility, daily attack and encounter attack power for one from your multiclass of the same level or lower).

We could go even a step further. Adjust the Hybrid system to fix some bugs (like the basic attack hole). For the price of one feat, let you be a class-and-a-half hybrid (so you are the *entire* core class, and get to tack on a hybrid class feature set).

Characters can start hybrid and for a feat upgrade one of their classes to "whole", or they could start whole and tack on a hybrid class for the price of one feat.

This would either replace or augment the Hybrid Talent feat.

Such a feat would be a very strong feat.

[MwaO]

Offering the power-swap feats as one bundle would make it much more tempting. (Ie, you take one feat, and you gain the right to swap out your 2nd utility, daily attack and encounter attack power for one from your multiclass of the same level or lower).

The power swap feats are some of the most powerful feats in the game.