[BitPR²] OOCVII: Kidnapping aunts for fun & profit

[Frozen_Feet]

Meh. Let's discuss it, then.

Spoiler: Stupidity

Show

A) If Reverse London is the same size as London, and Rukongai is at least as big as I've estimated it to be, the entirety of Reverse London would fit comfortably in Western Rukongai.

B) If Soul Society is the size of Earth, then Reverse London (and the "West Branch") could be geographically as far from the edge of Rukon as Great Britain is from China.

C) It is a huge stretch to say humans run the "West Branch". They run Wing Bind and the management of dragons in London area, but there is not enough information to tell how far their jurisdiction reaches past those limits. If Reverse London is indeed part of Soul Society, they could still be part of the same nation.

D) Similarly, if it's indeed the same setting, it's iffy to presume witches, haunted ones and (dark) dragons are qualitatively different from (substitute) Shinigami, Fullbringers and Hollows. One of the more common theories at the moment is that the reference to "Japanese killing their dragons" is reference to Shinigami purifying Hollows and that terms like "Witch" or "Wizard" are local terminology. The conceptual overlap is pretty big.

I mean, I know you're itching to play a Human-Shinigami-Hollow-Quincy-Witch-Dragon who is also a Puella Magi and Pokemon Master, but come on.

E) Despite being made by the same author, Burn the Witch and Bleach only go together about as well as Puella Magi Madoka and Bleach. In Madoka, the way Soul Gems interact with bodies of magical girls is near--homologous to how artificial and modified souls work. Witches and Wraiths fish from the same conceptual well as Hollows.

[Rater202]

Spoiler

Show

A: Reverse London at the very least seems to have a significant amount of rural land judging from the dragon farms. It may be that Reverse Londom is the Seireitei to the surrounding area's Rukon.

D: The farmer who the two are initially assigned to help is explicitly a normal human other than being able to see dragons, hence his need to wear a suitto handle them, and our pervert-turned-pet male protag can see them even when they're activly fighting a dragon before the dragon bite awakens his on powers. If Ichigo and Post-Mortalification Isshin are typical, Substitute Shinigami have to leave their bodies to use their power.

If Dragons are the same category of spirt as Hollows, meanwhile, than that opens huge questions about how Wingbind started farming and breeding tortured human souls for resources(up to and including their meat in some cases) which makes something already questionable really... Kubo is the type to make good guys secretly or unknowingly the bad guys.

[Frozen_Feet]

Spoiler: stupidity continues

Show

A) Entirely possible, but we don't see enough landscape to tell one way or another. The area surrounding Reverse London might be entirely rural.

D) We know a Senkaimon can be coupled with a matter converter to allow humans into Soul Society, that's how Orihime, Chad and Ishida made it.

Hey, it wouldn't be the first time in the Bleach franchise when something is made of people. :smallamuses: Isshin's gigai was supposedly made from human souls, Nimaya hints Zanpakuto are made from layered Shinigami souls, Senjumaru makes clothes from the hair and bones of Royal Guard members... there are people cursed into animal form like Komamura's kin... really, given that last one, whenever you eat an animal, there's a chance you're nomming on a former human.

[Rater202]

Spoiler

Show

Why would Shinigami need a matter converter? Gigai are spiritual matter compressed until it can pass for physical and if they were substitutes they'd just leave their bodies behind when they were on duty.

Also, I don't think a lot of people eat wolves in this day and age, the uniforms that Senjumaru made where explicitly made of her hair, I'd actually question that Nimaya was speaking literally when he said that the Asauchi are made of shinigami souls because unless bonded swords can be broken down and recycled there's just not enough souls to go around.

The implications of the dragons though... It's already iffy enough since at least some Dragons are sapient and the given definition of dragon is basically "anything that isn't a human or a witch," but if they're the same class of being as hollows then... Well, the Shinigami hunt and kill hollows because Hollows are tortured human souls who are trapped outside the cycle of reincarnation.

enslaving that kind of thing for the resources that it's body produces, on an almost industrial scale, is the single most unethical thing in the franchise.

Of course, it can't be changed since Reverse London's entire infrastructure seems to be based on it... which in a way makes it a microcosm of the situations in the Eastern Branch.

[Frozen_Feet]

Spoiler: stupidity continues

Show

A two-way converter would make gigais obsolete: a human would be turned into spirit matter going in and spirit would turn into earthly matter coming out. Along with gigai, soul candies, soul gloves and substitute badges would also become unnecessary.

As for Komamura's tribe, they were cursed into canines. But from the simple fact that Yoruichi can turn into a cat, we can surmise other animal forms, and hence other animal reincarnations, are also possible. Given how Hollows born of humans can also assume bestial forms as they develop... the idea of a human tribe having been cursed into dragons is well within conceptual space of the setting. Considering how common it is for monsters to have human origin... and Wing Bind already explicitly considers haunted humans to be dragons...

[Rater202]

Spoiler: Alleged Stupidity

Show

If Two Way converters existed, the Shinigami would use them.

Komura's tribe is the only group cursed to be animals. Yoruichi is not an anthro kitty, she is an individual with the abillity to turn into a kitty. As no one else, not even her clan, can do the same it makes more sense that it's some abillity unique to her rather than a sign that she was cursed--especially since she's a member of one of the Noble Families and was most likily born as a spirit.

Also,having thought on it a bit more, the "old wive's tale" about what happens if you eat a witch or wizard might be relevant to the story we've been discussing...

[Frozen_Feet]

Spoiler: stupidity continues

Show

If Two Way converters existed, the Shinigami would use them.

That's like saying "if artificial souls existed, Shinigami would use them." Well duh... but they were invented by someone and there was a time when they didn't exist, and hence weren't used, even if they are standard equipment by start of the series. Because we don't know when Burn the Witch happens and we see no Japanese Shinigami (unless Noel is one), you cannot eliminate the possibility based on what's shown in Bleach.

Komura's tribe is the only group cursed to be animals.

That we know of. The animal realm ("beast realm" in the wiki) has a specific meaning and covers all non-human mundane animals. Hence, from the terminology alone, it's possible to tell that them being canines is arbitrary and they could've been cursed to be some other type of animal.

As for Yoruichi, I didn't say she was cursed, I said she's an example of a spirit assuming the form of a different mundane animal. It being an unique ability (as far as we know) is not relevant, everything is unique the first time it happens. As with the two-way converter, we do not have enough information to eliminate the possibility. Basic problem of induction, really.

Also,having thought on it a bit more, the "old wive's tale" about what happens if you eat a witch or wizard might be relevant to the story we've been discussing...

I don't remember what you're referring to.

[Rater202]

Spoiler

Show

The technology to convert physical matter to spirit matter exists.

The technology to reverse this also exists, as implied by the fact that mortals can still see Uryu, Orihime, and Sado.

If it was possible to use them together to make shinigami physical, then Soul Society would use it for that.

And the old wive's tale is that eating a witch makes you immortal. You'll have to clear some room in your inbox to further discuss this point, however.

[Frozen_Feet]

Spoiler: stupidity continues

Show

The technology to convert physical matter to spirit matter exists.

... in hands of Urahara Kisuke and Tessai. We do not know when it was invented and whether it was a common technology during the main series.

The technology to reverse this also exists, as implied by the fact that mortals can still see Uryu, Orihime, and Sado.

Only as an implication, we aren't explicitly shown the process. And you know what breaks that implication? Your statement that "gigai are spiritual matter compressed until it can pass for physical". Isshin could pass for a normal human just fine, so it's possible Uryu, Orihime and Chad got put into the same boat by the conversion process and were never turned back.

Further complication exists in the form of Ginjou Kugo, who seemed to have no problem using Shinigami powers while in a human body.

If it was possible to use them together to make shinigami physical, then Soul Society would use it for that.

During Bleach? Dubious. They were trying to remain hidden from humans, for that, the default invisibility as spirits was handy. There were also laws limiting how long a Shinigami can stay on Earth. Using physical bodies (in form of gigai) was for exceptions and emergencies, clearly not a desireable default.

After Bleach? Soul Society's laws and societal structure are explicitly changing. In Burn the Witch, the only "absolute law" for Wing Bind is not allowing contact between dragons and humans. For contrast, in Bleach, the "ultimate law" is maintaining balance. These are contradictory statements. There are at least three ways to solve the contradiction, but not enough info to decise between then.

And the old wive's tale is that eating a witch makes you immortal. You'll have to clear some room in your inbox to further discuss this point, however.

Okay.

[Rater202]

Ginjou was channeling his stolen shinigami powers through his Fullbring.

It was established in-arc and reiterated in the Light Novels that Ginjou's original Shinigami powers are gone, though she still counts as being part Shinigami.

[Rater202]

I think we're waiting for Kuro in the Gaiden and KD in spirit world?

[Kuroimaken]

Yes, and to be honest I'm not entirely sure what to do.

[Rater202]

Turning around and seeing Sarah's soul?

[Rater202]

Thought: If a third Bleach game happens when this one wraps up, I wouldn't mind playing around with the concept behind Ichigo and Ginjo(Living human born of mixed Shinigami and Quincy blood, born to a mother attacked by a Hollow and who inherited that taint.)

We see it in Ichigo where the shinigami and Hollow powers are one(Shinigami dominant) with human and Quincy supporting that.

Ginjo, at least when we see him, is Human dominant, followed by hollow, with Shinigami powers that seem to just draw out Hollow powers(His Bankai honestly just seems to be activating Hollowfication) and neverdemonstraits Quincy abillities--we only know he's of Quincy decent becuase the light novels say so.

I feel like there's fertile ground to flesh out that concept more, but it's a bit late in the game to do something like it here.

I've been thinking on this(Not for this game, just thought exercises) and reread some manga chapters and stufff.

Kugo Ginjo's explanation when he's Hollowfied in his Bnakai boils down to "Dude, I told you that Fullbringers have Hollow Power in them."

In hindsight, I think I needlessly overcomplicated Sarah's backstory.

[Rater202]

For the record, Kuroimaken, "Anim-manĝanta Diablo-Reĝino" is pronounced roughly "Ah-Neem Mah-Jahn-tah Dee-Ah-blow Reh-Jee-noh"

It's Esperanto, each letter only has one possible pronunciation(excluding accented versions, which count as different letters,) with no compound letters.

[Kuroimaken]

For the record, as nifty a reference as using Esperanto is, I'm certain Koutarou can't make heads or tails of how to pronounce it. Neither can I.

Heck, I'm fairly certain I barely pronounce Zheng Li Lin's name right (and that's only because I've heard how the Chinese pronounce a ZH sound).

[Rater202]

Fair enough.

And currently, Gaiden IC is the closest I'm ever gonna get to a chance of sharing something I figured out ages ago.

[Kuroimaken]

It's worth mentioning that Koutarou did at one point actually try to talk down Reene and Von Geister from their plans.

His terms were piss-poor at the time, but still. He tried.

[Rater202]

Oh my God, you actually made it an actual mantis-shrimp.

This one is gonna be the only actual fight, isn't it?

[KnightDisciple]

Oh my God, you actually made it an actual mantis-shrimp.

This one is gonna be the only actual fight, isn't it?

I mean, I googled "humanoid mantis shrimp", found that, and I knew it had to happen.

This will probably last more than like 2 posts, yes.

[Kuroimaken]

And yes, Koutarou's response in the Gaiden thread DOES mean he would not like it if he knew Shinji can see the future.

[Rater202]

Question: In canon, there were Boltholes hidden throughout the Seireitei, right?

I know at least that Yachiru and Isane were hiding in one in the Thousand Year Blood War arc and IIRC one of them came up in the Soul Society Invasion Arc at the begining of the Manga, but the Wiki doesn't say anything about them and now I'm worried I'm imagining it.

[Frozen_Feet]

It's an entire city with several important facilities, such as the seat of government and their maximum security prison, built entirely or chiefly underground.

So yes, it likely has boltholes somewhere in there, whatever capacity you're using the word in.

[Rater202]

A thought?

Do we really need separate Spirit World and Living World threads anymore, since there are so few active players currently?

Asking in the interest of keeping a future story simple.

[Frozen_Feet]

I'd say your question is neatly answered by the fact that no-one has posted in the other thread for seven months.

[Kuroimaken]

As of this point, not really, but that won't be a problem until the current Spirit World thread reaches 50 pages.

[Rater202]

I may be planning something that invovles the mortal world and it may end up happening before then unless the Spirit World Pace suddenly picks up considerably.

[Rater202]

So, I'm doing more reading about the Bleach Light novels: Remember Gremmy, the Sternritter who was a reality warping brain in a jar?

Turns out that he was a piece of the Soul King.

Spoiler

Show

And his remains were retrieved, forcibly combined with several human,quincy, and shinigami souls, and Hollowfied by a rogue Shinigami who wants to replace the Soul king with his new creation so he can remake the Cosmos in his own image.

I kindof wish I was able to actually read the novels.

[Frozen_Feet]

Too bad, no export for you.

[Rater202]

Frozen? By the logic in your most recent post, the body should have been dead the second Sarah's soul was forced out of it without any sign of her chain of fate in sight.

Asit was verified to till have a pulse and breath at the time...