How do you react to the discovery of Magic?

[YossarianLives]

This is something that's always intrigued me about the endings of stories about normal people facing off against paranormal forces: how do the protagonists react once all is said and done? What kind of psychological damage is inflicted, and can one go on living normally while knowing about something greater and more powerful than anything humanity could ever conjure? The setting is your home country in 2016 with magic that exists, but is completely hidden from the public eye. Imagine Dresden Files as opposed to Harry Potter.


Let's say you return home from work one day to find your spouse/SO missing without a trace. You contact the local authorities but an anonymous official with great political power stops the investigation after a few days.

Thus, you and a band of friends depart on an adventure to find your missing spouse. After days of nosing about in bars, warehouses, graveyards, and the offices of private detectives you find a definitive clue that leads you to an encounter with a minor demon which you escape from. After further weeks of investigation into what is now clear to be a cult and multiple encounters with armed cultists and mythical beasts you and your friends break into the cult's lair, fight off the cultists and their sorcerous leader in the middle of a ritual, and save your spouse just before they're about to be sacrificed to a dark god.

Your friends celebrate and you happily reunite with your spouse. But you've seen things that cannot be unseen, you'll never look at the worlds the same way and you're plagued by nightmares for the rest of your life.

What do you do with your knowledge, or do you just try and forget it ever happened? Only you, 4-5 good friends, and your spouse are aware of the events that took place.

[Douglas]

Depends: Is there magic that does not involve dark gods and sacrifices, and perhaps even a light god or two to balance the dark one? If there's magic that doesn't involve serious ethical problems, I'd be very interested in learning it myself.

[Grinner]

I'm pretty sure the experience would negatively impact my life. I might be a bit shaken by having killed many someones, and fearful of retribution, I'd probably have trouble sleeping, given the distinct possibility of being murdered in my sleep by some shape-shifting, tenebrous demon-dog from another dimension.

[Winter_Wolf]

Magic militia. I'd start stockpiling defensive and offensive gear against magic and paranormal/supernatural things. Probably become more religious and take a hard look at folk superstition to see what has use. Also, what friends? They're all hundreds if not thousands of miles away.

[YossarianLives]

Depends: Is there magic that does not involve dark gods and sacrifices, and perhaps even a light god or two to balance the dark one? If there's magic that doesn't involve serious ethical problems, I'd be very interested in learning it myself.

There are certainly non-evil forms of magic. The only difficulty would be finding someone able and willing to teach you.

[Grinner]

There are certainly non-evil forms of magic. The only difficulty would be finding someone able and willing to teach you.

Meh. Plenty of books are available on the subject, both old and new. Since we'd have a pretty good idea of what probably works, we'd be able to weed out the chaff more easily than others. Assuming there's some underlying logic (albeit one more qualitative than quantitative), it shouldn't be impossible to work out the basics (although that might entail getting a degree in comparative religions or something).

[golentan]

Historically, what I've done is spread accurate information through folktales about defensive techniques against magic (such as the use of silver or iron as a disruptive influence to magical field effects, and various forms of mental disciplines as defensive techniques against enchantment often disguised as games or meditative things) and misinformation about how to access dangerous powers (I'm not going to mention specific forms of misinformation I have provided).

Then go on with my life.

I've earned some time off.

[Eldan]

I'm a scientist, a rationalist and a humanist. Not exactly in that order. So the important questions to ask are:

*Why is this not public?
**How do I make it public?

*How good is the literature and research on it?
**How do we research it?
***How do we share knowledge?
**Is magic limited to certain people?
***If not, see above as to sharing.
***If yes, how to get in touch with talented individiuals?
**How do I convince the physicists and mathematicians that it is real?
***CERN is within travel distance. So is a world class university.
**Magic to expand existing models of physics
***Magic and mathematics?
***Magica and classical physics?
***Magic and Quantum Theory?
**Magic as technology
***Magical Engineering?
****Magical Materials?
****Magical energy sources?
***Mass producing magic?
***Solving pressing problems with magic?
****Magic and war
****Magic and food
****Magic and healing
****Magic and climate change
****Magic and outer space

*How do I profit from it?
**See magic as technology, above.

[Urzamax]

@Eldan: Although we'd also need to consider any ethical and practical limitations on magical research--no one wants to be the mad scientist who opens an portal to hell because he misplaced a line on his prototype pentagram. And of course, if access to true power (and the accompanying knowledge about it) requires unsavory things like human sacrifice, then we'd definitely need to clear it with an ethics board beforehand, or more likely find a safer method that requires far fewer human-rights violations.

[Eldan]

Find volunteers for sacrifice. I'd bet you a lot more governments would be willing to allow assisted suicide of terminally ill cancer patients if they got magical benefits out of it.

[golentan]

Find volunteers for sacrifice. I'd bet you a lot more governments would be willing to allow assisted suicide of terminally ill cancer patients if they got magical benefits out of it.

Depending on what the sacrifice entailed in consequences for the sacrificial victim, I'd be really worried about governments allowing "volunteers" to be used for magical research. Don't be Olivia Pierce.

Seriously, ethics boards are important for a reason.

[Eldan]

Hmm. Invasion of Hell...
If Hell is eternally hot (or very cold), one could lay piping through a portal to hell and use that portal as a geothermal steam turbine...

[Blackhawk748]

Hmm. Invasion of Hell...
If Hell is eternally hot (or very cold), one could lay piping through a portal to hell and use that portal as a geothermal steam turbine...

We are not repeating the plot of DOOM. Seriously, thats almost exactly the plot of DOOM.

In any event i would try to figure out why it wasn't public, and then make it public. After i had figured out enough non-blood magic ways to protect myself.

[Eldan]

We are not repeating the plot of DOOM. Seriously, thats almost exactly the plot of DOOM.

In any event i would try to figure out why it wasn't public, and then make it public. After i had figured out enough non-blood magic ways to protect myself.

I was joking, since someone told me not to be the DOOM antagonist.

[Winter_Wolf]

Eldan, out of curiosity, do you ask whether we should do something before or after can we do it? Or is that even a question in your process as a scientist? I can certainly see some value in knowing regardless, but not personally knowing any active scientists, I need to ask.

More relevant, what happens if you find out that magic actively erodes reality* if too many people use it? Still care to spread the knowledge of how to access magic far and wide? Not actively picking a fight, but I am curious how if at all your process changes.

*substitute universe, physics, or whatever your preferred term is for the space we as a species/planet/galaxy exist in.

[Flickerdart]

Discovery? I've been playing Magic for years!

In all honesty, there's a whole boatload of stuff cutting-edge science is doing that's basically magic, everyone knows about it, and nobody cares.

[Aliquid]

I'm a scientist, a rationalist and a humanist. Not exactly in that order. So the important questions to ask are:

*Why is this not public?
**How do I make it public?

You would be assassinated very quickly with that mindset.

[Quild]

I find the given scenario unlikely.
Authorities would be aware of this cultists but do nothing and let them be?


If this scenario was to happen, my main concern would be to be sure that no retalation is coming for myself, my spouse and my friends.
Then, what would interest me is to know more.
Can I have access to magic? What can I do with it?
If there are demons, is there a god? I might prepare my afterlife.


Now, if the scenario was to find a true magician, someone casting spells, I clearly would like to learn that if you can do neat things with it.
I'm pretty convinced that if everyone could practice/train to teleport, most people would quickly just be too lazy for it. Even if it simply was for one daily hour of mental exercises.

[tensai_oni]

Forget magic, the whole idea of forming an adventuring party with your friends to fight cultists and save an important person already sounds like something that'd realistically speaking traumatize and disturb anyone for life, or most likely kill them while trying. It's also highly improbable and frankly sounds more like an RPG adventure than something that might actually happen. Unless your friends are a group of trigger happy PMCs or something.

[Eldan]

Eldan, out of curiosity, do you ask whether we should do something before or after can we do it? Or is that even a question in your process as a scientist? I can certainly see some value in knowing regardless, but not personally knowing any active scientists, I need to ask.

More relevant, what happens if you find out that magic actively erodes reality* if too many people use it? Still care to spread the knowledge of how to access magic far and wide? Not actively picking a fight, but I am curious how if at all your process changes.

*substitute universe, physics, or whatever your preferred term is for the space we as a species/planet/galaxy exist in.

I honestly don't know. I work in ecology, dangerous results don't really occur there. Our problem is more getting anyone to believe what we're saying or actually care. That said, yeah, I don't believe much in secrecy.

As for actively eroding reality... that's called entropy. Everything we do does that.

You would be assassinated very quickly with that mindset.

Why? I always thought that was the big hole in any Masquerade scenario. Why exactly does the supernatural have to hide from normals? I've never heard a satisfying explanation.

[Douglas]

Why? I always thought that was the big hole in any Masquerade scenario. Why exactly does the supernatural have to hide from normals? I've never heard a satisfying explanation.

The real explanation is always "so that it seems semi-plausible that the story really could be set in the real world". In-setting explanations tend to be contrived, because they're invented to justify a pre-chosen result rather than naturally arising from the situation.

[golentan]

Why? I always thought that was the big hole in any Masquerade scenario. Why exactly does the supernatural have to hide from normals? I've never heard a satisfying explanation.

For the most part I agree. But I can see a scenario where magic is limited to a small enough minority that it cannot overcome the benefits of muggle numerical superiority or technology, and where it is dependent on something sufficiently morally repugnant (the regular and painful death of children for example) where the people who discover it sort of have to be sociopaths, they do benefit from its practice but fear being killed in their sleep or overrun by an angry mob should it come to public light, and whatever secret society they have formed has been unable to find a more socially palateable alternative and so instead uses whatever magical and mundane divination methods at their disposal to keep from being exposed to public scrutiny.

As a hypothetical.

[Blackhawk748]

It could just be tradition. While in the modern world i think a fair chunk of the world won't care, rewind some 150 years and you'd have a lynch mob on you. So they remain secret because they always have.

[Quild]

It could just be tradition. While in the modern world i think a fair chunk of the world won't care, rewind some 150 years and you'd have a lynch mob on you. So they remain secret because they always have.

Won't care, really? Some cultists doing human sacrifice would still make the news a few days.
Those cultists having access to magic and being able to summon actual demons, proving that Hell is a real thing would certainly be an important bit.

The existence of Hell doesn't prove that Heaven exists though. Nor afterlife or a god. Hell could just be another dimension in which you don't go when you die.
Still, I really think people would be interested to know more about it. Just to be sure that they're not going there.

[Tyndmyr]

Let's say you return home from work one day to find your spouse/SO missing without a trace. You contact the local authorities but an anonymous official with great political power stops the investigation after a few days. ...

What do you do with your knowledge, or do you just try and forget it ever happened? Only you, 4-5 good friends, and your spouse are aware of the events that took place.

I wake up, remember I'm single, and go "phew, that was an odd dream".

But assuming the reality of all that, I'd cheerfully start testing it with science, and beginning the exploitation process.

[Aliquid]

Why? I always thought that was the big hole in any Masquerade scenario. Why exactly does the supernatural have to hide from normals? I've never heard a satisfying explanation.

I agree it is hard to find a good explanation as to why these things would be actively kept secret.

BUT I would find it even harder to explain why things aren't already public unless there is some force or group actively keeping things secret.

[Eldan]

I suppose so. But then, how are they effective enough that they keep it a secret for millennia, but ineffective enough that some random people from the internet can dismantle a cult?

[Blackhawk748]

Won't care, really? Some cultists doing human sacrifice would still make the news a few days.
Those cultists having access to magic and being able to summon actual demons, proving that Hell is a real thing would certainly be an important bit.

The existence of Hell doesn't prove that Heaven exists though. Nor afterlife or a god. Hell could just be another dimension in which you don't go when you die.
Still, I really think people would be interested to know more about it. Just to be sure that they're not going there.

I meant Magic period. The human sacrifice thing will blow up all over the freaking place

[Grinner]

Magic, and the supernatural in general, isn't a secret. There's no need for a Masquerade, because most people just don't care. If you live in a sufficiently population-dense area, you can find occult-oriented groups if you really want to, but most people, I suspect, don't really want to. Add on the fact that the purported effects of magic generally aren't so overt, consisting of bad luck or mysterious illnesses at best, and are easily rationalized, there's little reason for most people in developed nations to take the idea of magic seriously.

For the purposes of our scenario, though, I would suggest that the reason a relatively uncoordinated effort is able to disband a cult so easily is that it's a cult. It's not a secret society of highly-trained sorcerers. It's a bunch of amateurs who got in over their heads and weren't long for this world anyway. Optionally, it's worth bearing in mind that for magicians, knowledge is literally power. If they wish to work some kind of magic, the person best equipped to stop them is another magician. Thus for them, the best offense is a tight grip on their secrets.

[norival1992]

I can, and do, jack off with either hand. Am I magician?