EMPIRE2!-CWBG-VI-Save-The-Hufflepuffs!

[Aedilred]

Pepper teamed up with Aed and Blade to form an anti-Waylander coalition

Strictly speaking our alliance was independent of Way, and he attacked us, not the other way around! So there or something!

In addition to the people moos mentioned I am still in contact with Way, Rain Dragon and Logic some of whom may return for an E3. Kasanip is still also around somewhere and has expressed interest in returning. Of course we don't know for certain whether all the people who played E1-2 will continue for the next game anyway; people get busy and so forth.

So... listening to the lastest podcast now, I just have to point out...

There's a section talking about the new Merchant Princes and Holy Nations, and the mention of a Great Kingdom player working with a faith player and a economic player to get sixth actions for everybody... I had a bit of a laugh and a Does this sound familiar...

Another thing is the non-humanoid races getting nixed - there goes my "Sentient Ooze Race" idea. Man that would have been fun to mess with, imagine the cultural differences... Ah well.

Ah, well one of the things you missed was that federations were much more popular this game, and largely came to dominate it. As moos says there was really only one proper empire punching at the same weight for most of the runtime. After we were unable to resolve balance issues the decision was made fairly late in the game to phase them out - although in practice they mostly ended up failing due to player retirement anyway before the abolition could be enacted.

As Quinton mentioned in the podcast, the merchant prince/holy land idea was intended to take some of the stuff we liked about federations (which basically amounts to a non-territorial route to getting a slightly worse set of six actions) while otherwise removing them.

Back in my day... We were just as bad.

Also, what happened to the EMPIRE! tag? It used to be one of the top tags, but now I can't find it. How am I supposed to easily look up all the weird stuff from Empire 1 now?

The tag still exists but it wasn't used as widely in this game so it's fallen off the top tags list and only includes a fraction of this game's threads.

I'm still not sure what the Larimps were supposed to be.

I think in principle they were meant to be goblins, with an original approach to the way their skin responded to trauma. Unfortunately, to me, this made them sound like they were goblins made of avocado and that's the image I had in my head throughout the rest of the game. Of course, we did have "real" goblins in Luska, although I'm not sure we ever actually saw a goblin character.

[BladeofObliviom]

Blade lost his sanity trying to keep track of techs

Bicycle Shoe Fins Actualize Radishes Greenly.

Pepper teamed up with Aed and Blade to form an anti-Waylander coalition

We did no such thing. We formed a coalition and Way decided it was against him.

Albino half-men (?) from Blade

Ghuls are completely human. They're just elite soldiers from an ethnic group with high rates of albinism, and Kroznat people were scared of them because they're superstitious and racist.

[moossabi]

We did no such thing. We formed a coalition and Way decided it was against him.

Still, the federation was very anti-Prevaz.

I know that it wasn't the foundation (although Way was in an underground region so actually yeah he was at your foundations), but it's a prevalent part of LAP history.

[EtuBrutus]

And I've probably missed a few

woolli had squirrel people.
Before Dimple made the Larimp, he had whatever the hell the banion were suppose to be.
FD had werewolves.
Slawth13 made alligator folk.
have_a_cow made elemental genasi, which I think Mary later revived.
Boot had whatever the **** the Myrkalfar were supposed to be.
And Murgen gifted me with giant Wookie weasels, and I gifted you all with lazy hobbit versions of the Nihoni.

[lt_murgen]

Murgen had some halflings that got genocided in a 5v1 war before moving on to a college nation that pissed off everyone

And Murgen gifted me with giant Wookie weasels..

Sadly, I really couldn't get any momentum behind any of those concepts. For me, E2 was the land of lost potential, and entirely my own fault.

[DimpleLoamsdown]

I'm still not sure what the Larimps were supposed to be.

I keep picturing that one demon in 40k that keeps tabs of all Nurgle's plagues. Epidemus, I think?

Larimps were sort of supposed to be like a combination of house elves, goblins and those hairless cats.

[WaylanderX]

"Aed's comment"

We did no such thing. We formed a coalition and Way decided it was against him.

Neither and I did not. There were some hostilities very early in the game and it escalated from there, eventually ending in the defeat of me, Silver and Arcane with what amounted to a 6/7 vs 3 battle. Who initiated the hostilities back then is debatable.

We were originally planning on creating a Space Empire spin-off on Reddit, but it never took off, unfortunately. Was travelling New Zealand at the time. No regrets to be honest .

Also, Prevaz didn't only paint, but also like to sculpt, sing and dance (Dancing, singing blind lamias for the win )!

I reused Skianz and the Prevaz for the novel/setting I am writing at the moment, so there is that. Their origin and interactions have been changed alot though to suit the world better.

[HalfTangible]

I'm rehashing Primus for one of my own settings.

Also Lampide, Marvella and Ombra, but Primus is the one from E2

[Elemental]

Hey guys, sorry about missing the end of the game, but I'm working on getting hyped for Empire 3.
(Already have a nation idea)

[BootStrapTommy]

Boot had whatever the **** the Myrkalfar were supposed to be.

Evil fae or Falmered Aeldir, depending on the point in the game...

[HalfTangible]

"Not everything has a name. Some things lead us into a realm beyond words." -- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I wish I'd discovered this quote months ago.

It fits (part of) what I was going for with the Satsujin so well T_T

[Kythia]

Finally got around to listening to the podcast (O'm behind the times).

One question that, if it got addressed I missed: Holy Land and Merchant Prince don't seem to be mutually exclusive on a "how to get to them" front - will it be possible to be both?

[Elemental]

Finally got around to listening to the podcast (O'm behind the times).

One question that, if it got addressed I missed: Holy Land and Merchant Prince don't seem to be mutually exclusive on a "how to get to them" front - will it be possible to be both?

And the Lord Exchequer spake unto the people and directed them to seek out profits and to always pay their debts in a timely fashion lest they suffer in the debtor's prison?

[HalfTangible]

Finally got around to listening to the podcast (O'm behind the times).

One question that, if it got addressed I missed: Holy Land and Merchant Prince don't seem to be mutually exclusive on a "how to get to them" front - will it be possible to be both?

I doubt it (GKs aren't also Empires), but why would you want to even if you could? You'd be restricting 4 actions instead of 2, so even if it gave you a seventh action (which I doubt) you'd only have 3 to use for things other than faith and trade. And the main reason to go merchant prince or holy land is to get that sixth action, right?

[Aedilred]

Holy Lands and Merchant Principalities will not be mutually exclusive, although the fluff justifications might be interesting (see Elemental's post). If you get both, you can pick whether your sixth action is Economy or Faith each round.

[Kythia]

And the Lord Exchequer spake unto the people and directed them to seek out profits and to always pay their debts in a timely fashion lest they suffer in the debtor's prison?

I was thinking of sixteenth century Spain actually.

[Aedilred]

To be fair I think C16 Spain was, at least after 1519, an Empire with a capital E.

[Kythia]

Eh, perhaps. It was certainly a major mercantile power with a strong religious element and used each half to support the other, which is all I really meant.

[Aedilred]

Eh, perhaps. It was certainly a major mercantile power with a strong religious element and used each half to support the other, which is all I really meant.

I just did a quick count and the "king of Spain" during the sixteenth century was the titled king over fourteen kingdoms within the borders of modern Spain, as well as Naples, Sicily, Gibraltar and the (albeit entirely titular) kingdom of Jerusalem. To that, the Habsburg connection brought the kingdoms of Germany and Italy, the whole of the Low Countries (twelve discrete titles) and the County Palatine of Burgundy. Philip II didn't inherit the kingdoms of Germany or Italy but but added, via his mother, two more kingdoms in what is now Portugal. That's before taking into account any non-European possessions, which were the most extensive of any European power.

Many of those kingdoms were actually pretty tiny - though many were not - but I don't think I'd appreciated until now quite what an array of royal titles the rulers we shorthand as "kings of Spain" actually piled up. I think even those of us in E1 who were trying to make our titles as numerous as possible (Elemental and I being prime offenders in that regard) fell some way short of the mark.

[Kythia]

I just did a quick count and the "king of Spain" during the sixteenth century was the titled king over fourteen kingdoms within the borders of modern Spain, as well as Naples, Sicily, Gibraltar and the (albeit entirely titular) kingdom of Jerusalem. To that, the Habsburg connection brought the kingdoms of Germany and Italy, the whole of the Low Countries (twelve discrete titles) and the County Palatine of Burgundy. Philip II didn't inherit the kingdoms of Germany or Italy but but added, via his mother, two more kingdoms in what is now Portugal. That's before taking into account any non-European possessions, which were the most extensive of any European power.

Many of those kingdoms were actually pretty tiny - though many were not - but I don't think I'd appreciated until now quite what an array of royal titles the rulers we shorthand as "kings of Spain" actually piled up. I think even those of us in E1 who were trying to make our titles as numerous as possible (Elemental and I being prime offenders in that regard) fell some way short of the mark.

Even good ol' QE2 can really rack them up when she's feeling posh (Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas Queen, Defender of the Faith) which then varies in different countries, not to mention the wealth of other titles she holds non ex officio - the wikipedia page on her titles sits at almost 7,000 words.

I think - and is it weird that I've thought about this before? - the problem people make when designing fantasy monarch's titles is they rely on superlatives. Sure, there have been "the great"s or "the magnificent"s or whatever, but if you look at Liz's full styling, each bit actually means something, there's very little there that is purely self-aggradisement.

King Bob the Magnificent isn't a realistic name, King Bob of Bobland, Duke of the Isles of Bob, Emperor of Inner and Outer Bobistan, Grand Sultan of Bobadia and Ruler of the Faithful is.

[Aedilred]

Even good ol' QE2 can really rack them up when she's feeling posh (Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas Queen, Defender of the Faith) which then varies in different countries, not to mention the wealth of other titles she holds non ex officio - the wikipedia page on her titles sits at almost 7,000 words.

I think - and is it weird that I've thought about this before? - the problem people make when designing fantasy monarch's titles is they rely on superlatives. Sure, there have been "the great"s or "the magnificent"s or whatever, but if you look at Liz's full styling, each bit actually means something, there's very little there that is purely self-aggradisement.

King Bob the Magnificent isn't a realistic name, King Bob of Bobland, Duke of the Isles of Bob, Emperor of Inner and Outer Bobistan, Grand Sultan of Bobadia and Ruler of the Faithful is.

This depends, I think, although most such names are nicknames rather than titles per se, even if rulers have come to be identified with them. With the exception of "the Great", which has a pretty much unique pedigree as a suffix and tends to cause a degree of controversy (especially when it comes to French rulers, for some reason) other such titles are indeed generally awarded either unofficially or posthumously, or both. Nevertheless, they catch on. Suleiman the Magnificent is so known pretty much universally; Ivan the Terrible similarly. English monarchs before about 1200 mostly have such sobriquets as they were used to distinguish rulers before numerals became common, although they vary from those used near-universally (Edward the Martyr and Confessor, William the Conqueror) to the obscure (Edgar the Peaceable, Edred All-Fair) to the nonsensical (Edgar Atheling) to the apparently non-existent (Athelstan) and this pattern seems to be replicated across quite a bit of western Europe. And of course in some cases the name might be obviously posthumous (to have called King Edward "the Martyr" during his lifetime would probably have raised a few eyebrows) or ironic (the most famous example possibly being John the Fearless, so named because he was so paranoid of assassination he locked himself in the highest tower in Paris, although Pompey may run him close depending on your view of Sulla's sense of humour).

Although I reverted to numerals for E2, in E1 I used sobriquets to distinguish all my rulers (as well as an extravagantly long list of titles*), with the proviso that they were (almost**) always applied retrospectively, and were not always aggrandising or even complimentary (for instance, I had one called "the Rash"). I also endeavoured to make the titles unique so that they didn't overlap with those Elemental was using for his own rulers. As in reality, and as you allude to, the titles were intended to be descriptive and memorable at least as much as ego-massaging. Again, see European rulers such as Henry the Fowler, Louis the Fat, Charles the Bald - probably not how any of them would have chosen to be remembered, but they've stuck all the same.

*See http://gitp-empire.wikia.com/wiki/Ki...the_Jarrs_%26c for the evolution of the title until the latter part of the game. After that a few imperial titles were added too.
**The exception as in all things being Elwyn, although the one by which he was termed as king after his abdication was not the same as the one he was known by while he was on the throne.

[Kythia]

or ironic (the most famous example possibly being John the Fearless, so named because he was so paranoid of assassination he locked himself in the highest tower in Paris, although Pompey may run him close depending on your view of Sulla's sense of humour).

John lackland/softsword springs to mind as well (Both King John). Clearly John's are just ****ty kings: there's a universal rule there and I'm going to demand that all Empire monarchs called "John" take a minus 5 malus to all stats in the name of verisimilitude.

As to your general point, I think there was an opportunity missed in E2 there (obviously I wasn't in E1 where you do seem to have done that). In the majority of cases each province was given its own unique people and culture and an impressive list of sobriquets could have been built up there: Queen Kythia of 85Land, Sultaness of 86sylvania, Countess of 87ville, Empress of the mid nineties and Exalted Oligarch of 104istan. I had planned on doing that eventually but then I decided I was more focused on just having those three regions with the same ethnic group (let's put aside how well that turned out) so it never really became relevant.

[BootStrapTommy]

The easiest option is to make your faith a Merchant God. A nation worshiping the god of money could easily be both. Or just a nation that worships money.

[Kythia]

The easiest option is to make your faith a Merchant God. A nation worshiping the god of money could easily be both. Or just a nation that worships money.

I'm not certain that "creating a new religion" is actually easier than "using the pre-established religion" but it's not really my problem.

[BootStrapTommy]

Who said there wasn't already gunna be a god of money?

[BladeofObliviom]

Who said there was?


Regardless, it'd probably be fairly easy to twist some passage of scripture to glorify capitalism/wealth/etc. Snap! You have a mercantile heresy.

[BootStrapTommy]

Who said there was?


Regardless, it'd probably be fairly easy to twist some passage of scripture to glorify capitalism/wealth/etc. Snap! You have a mercantile heresy.

All hail the gods of capitalism! May your stocks always go up!

Anyway on the subject of titles, I had my rulers collecting them for most of the game:

Aneira Penddraig, First of Her Name, First among the Nihoni, Exarch of Carraig Dún and the Nihoni Demenses, Princeps of the Nihonel, Archduxess of Rhune, Satrap of the Awladal'ard, Guardian of Myrkheim, Grand Legate of the Patriam, Lugal of Nevarr and Šarrum of Neilor, and Imperatrix of the Nihoni Dominion

For the most part I tacked on a new title with each region. She'd have had more if I'd bothered to finish all my write ups.

[WaylanderX]

Who said there was?


Regardless, it'd probably be fairly easy to twist some passage of scripture to glorify capitalism/wealth/etc. Snap! You have a mercantile heresy.

Sounds like Guilder. Don't know if that is a good/neutral/bad thing.

[BladeofObliviom]

Sounds like Guilder. Don't know if that is a good/neutral/bad thing.

A lapsed follower of a monetary religion makes for an alarmingly good description of Guilder.

[Elemental]

Many of those kingdoms were actually pretty tiny - though many were not - but I don't think I'd appreciated until now quite what an array of royal titles the rulers we shorthand as "kings of Spain" actually piled up. I think even those of us in E1 who were trying to make our titles as numerous as possible (Elemental and I being prime offenders in that regard) fell some way short of the mark.

I could have gone a lot longer with my ruler's title. A LOT longer. I once hand wrote a list of titles for a ruler in a RPG I never got around to playing that was half an A4 page long.

King Bob the Magnificent isn't a realistic name, King Bob of Bobland, Duke of the Isles of Bob, Emperor of Inner and Outer Bobistan, Grand Sultan of Bobadia and Ruler of the Faithful is.

I thought about that for Anceris, but given their policy was to unite disparate smaller realms under their imperial banner, it would have been a bit strange.

I'm not certain that "creating a new religion" is actually easier than "using the pre-established religion" but it's not really my problem.

My actual plan for the next game is to take one of the starting religions and run with it. Hard. Like I'm being chased by an army of demons and angels and usurp the hell out of it.

On that note... If there's anyone doing an HRE type thing next game, I'd be more than happy to be your loyal anti-pope. I'll even crown your emperors for you in defiance of what the actual pope says.