Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System

[Lemmy]

Hey Lemmy a couple of questions if you will:
1. How are the custom ammo types coming?
2. For a more modern run in things how would you go about setting up a Automatic or Burstfire weapon cost wise?

Those are good questions... Let me address them separately.

1. How are the custom ammo types coming?

They're still being worked in my draft document. Right now, the main problem is designing and balancing enough ammo modifications to fill at least a page or two. I'm also tinkering with the idea of enabling the creation of custom ammo by allowing certain melee weapon modifications to be added to ammo (within certain limits). I want to give players and GMs as much fredom as I can, but part of me also wants to limit certain tyoes of ammo to weapons with certain types of propulsion. e.g.: I have a type of ammo that is particularly good at biding the target to nearby objects, it's meant to represent some sort of barbed/hooked arrow... But right now, nothing stops characters from adding this property to tiny bullets. Which isn't necessarily bad, but it feel wrong, doesn't it? Well... As usual, I'm leaning towards allowing it and just trusting players and GMs to limit it to their tastes.

A few other doubts are things like: Should the "Scatter Weapon" modification be made a type of ammo instead? How do I implement explosive ammo without making it too good or too bad? Should Splash weapons be a type of ammo as well? Should I differentiate between them and other explosives? How?

2. For a more modern run in things how would you go about setting up a Automatic or Burstfire weapon cost wise?

Hmmm... That's a difficult question. It really depends on how the rules would reflect those properties. It could arguably be represented by a reduced reload time and higher ammo capacity, although that wouldn't feel very inspired... Then again, allowing an weapon to just shoot multiple times with a single attack would be difficult to balance.

Off the top of my head, I'd make "Burst" a, let's say... 2 point modification that can be added multiple times and allows the user to shoot multiple projectiles at the same time, but instead of just making multiple attacks or multiplying the damage, it only multiplies the base damage die, similar to Vital Strike, and would spend additional ammo in direct proportion to how many base damage dice it adds...

e.g.: If you have an firearm that deals 2d4 base damage (+ modifiers) and add the Burst modification twice, it'll deal 6d4(+ modifiers) damage per shot, but also spend 3 bullets per attack. Optionally, this modification may be turned on/off (Maybe in exchange for a little increase in cost (no more than +1 cp for the first time you add the Burst property). That might make critical hits too powerful, though. Which again, isn't necessarily bad, but it's something to keep in mind.

- - -

Well, that's all for now... I hope I could help. Feel free to share any doubts, suggestions or criticism you may have. It's always a pleasure to hear the thoughts of other players.

[Talonhawke]

The burst thing could work and I should have extrapolated, my homebrew world has a goblin family famous for their crossbows. I am looking to build a crossbow capable of working like autofire and burst fire weapons from D20 modern/modern path.

[Hish]

I'm a big fan. An interesting weapon system, good sir.

Should the concealed property have to be added to both ends of a double weapon? Does it apply to both ends with only one modification? Are you only able to hide one end of your weapon?

The nonthreatening flaw's description is "This weapon"

[noob]

"Are you only able to hide one end of your weapon?" yes and so the person watching you thinks you have a one headed weapon.
I thought that an Inaccurate Unreliable exotic two handed ranged weapon with five damage dice increase would be quite deadly at low level(from level 1 to 3 6d6 is deadly) and would cost 50 gold and would combine efficiently with vital strike(12d6 is again deadly at level 6).

[Lemmy]

The burst thing could work and I should have extrapolated, (...)

Hey, at least you gave me inspiration for a new modification.

(...) my homebrew world has a goblin family famous for their crossbows. I am looking to build a crossbow capable of working like autofire and burst fire weapons from D20 modern/modern path.

Higher ammo capacity and the hypothetical (for now) Burst modification should do a pretty good job of that. Careful with reloading feats and abilities, though... Creating the possibility of characters shooting 4~5 times per round for stuff like 3d10 damage (+ modifiers) might be a tad too much... But as always: your game, your decision.

[Lemmy]

I'm a big fan. An interesting weapon system, good sir.

Should the concealed property have to be added to both ends of a double weapon? Does it apply to both ends with only one modification? Are you only able to hide one end of your weapon?

Hmm... It should probably require being added to both ends. I'll fix that.

The nonthreatening flaw's description is "This weapon"

Oh... It seems I forgot to replace the description that used to be there . Thanks for informing me.
EDIT: Oh, right... The whole thing was meant to be replaced by the "Short" flaw. Well... I'll give it a quick place-holder effect for now and then think it more thoroughly when I'm back home.

[Lemmy]

"Are you only able to hide one end of your weapon?" yes and so the person watching you thinks you have a one headed weapon.

Heh... It'd be fun for someone to ignore a dagger, only to realize too late that it comes with a SMG attached to it.

I thought that an Inaccurate Unreliable exotic two handed ranged weapon with five damage dice increase would be quite deadly at low level(from level 1 to 3 6d6 is deadly) and would cost 50 gold and would combine efficiently with vital strike(12d6 is again deadly at level 6).

Oh, yeah... The problem with point-buy is that you can always game the system. That's the main reason why Weapon Flaws are specifically noted as "Optional Rules" (I mean... Even more optional than homebrew rules already are).

That said, I really should reduce the bonus points from "Inaccurate" (and maybe from "Unreliable" as well) to 1... And maybe add a rule about modifications gained from adding weapon flaws not stacking with normal modifications or something like that.

Thanks for pointing the problem out.

[Talonhawke]

Hey, at least you gave me inspiration for a new modification.
Higher ammo capacity and the hypothetical (for now) Burst modification should do a pretty good job of that. Careful with reloading feats and abilities, though... Creating the possibility of characters shooting 4~5 times per round for stuff like 3d10 damage (+ modifiers) might be a tad too much... But as always: your game, your decision.

How about this as a possible option

Auto-Fire This weapon is capable of firing at full automatic in a 30 ft cone. As a full round action the attacker may expend 10 ammunition from the clip to make this attack every creature in the Cone must make a reflex save versus 10+1/2 BAB+dex mod for half damage. Roll damage as normal however no precision damage may be used. CP 2Pts (1pt if this is the only method of fire.) Must have an ammo capacity of 10 or more.

As a possibility for the burst fire you could have it instead still use more ammo but be based off of the roll so a hit +1 damage dice for every 5 you go over the target AC. Possibly drop the Cost to 1CP and make it use 5 ammo with a second CP dropping the cost to 3 ammo.

EDIT: Also possibly having bot on 1 weapon would let it Auto-fire for 5 ammo. That or might make that a feat instead.

EDIT 2: Looking at some of the flaws I assume they are meant to be used on a indivual basis not for a whole catagory since it makes no sense to have a weapon you bought extra damage on just to reduced the damage.

[Lemmy]

How about this as a possible option

Auto-Fire This weapon is capable of firing at full automatic in a 30 ft cone. As a full round action the attacker may expend 10 ammunition from the clip to make this attack every creature in the Cone must make a reflex save versus 10+1/2 BAB+dex mod for half damage. Roll damage as normal however no precision damage may be used. CP 2Pts (1pt if this is the only method of fire.) Must have an ammo capacity of 10 or more.

It might be a tad too close to the Scatter Weapon modification... Hmm... Now that I think about it, Scatter Weapons probably shouldn't be allowed to deal Precision damage without a feat or something.

As a possibility for the burst fire you could have it instead still use more ammo but be based off of the roll so a hit +1 damage dice for every 5 you go over the target AC. Possibly drop the Cost to 1CP and make it use 5 ammo with a second CP dropping the cost to 3 ammo.

EDIT: Also possibly having bot on 1 weapon would let it Auto-fire for 5 ammo. That or might make that a feat instead.

Hmmm... The problem with "for every X beyond the target's AC/CMD/whatever" rules is that they slow down combat with every hit by making the GM make yet another mental calculation... I think a simpler solution would be adding a penalty to attack rolls (I imagine burst shots would be less accurate, but I don't know much about firearms) and/or simply saying the extra damage dice form Burst aren't multiplied on a critical hit (just like Vital Strike... This really is turning out to be "VS - The Modification" ).

[Talonhawke]

It might be a tad too close to the Spread modification... Hmm... Now that I think about it, Spread weapons really shouldn't be allowed to deal Precision damage without a feat or something.

True I can see that as being an issue and spread could double for auto that way if refluffed possibly with a different cost for simply being a mode on the weapon.

Hmmm... The problem with "for every X beyond the target's AC/CMD/whatever" rules is that they slow down combat with every hit by making the GM make yet another mental calculation... I think a simpler solution would be adding a penalty tok rolls (I imagine burst shots would be less accurate, but I don't know much about firearms) and/or simply saying the extra damage dice form Burst aren't multiplied on a critical hit (just like Vital Strike... This really is turning out to be "VS - The Modification" ).[/QUOTE] That could work for Burst CP 1 3 round burst (user is treated as having vital Strike with the weapon) 2CP 5 Round burst (user is treated as having Improved vital strike with the weapon) 3CP 10 round full auto (user is treated as having as having greater vital strike with the weapon)

I also realized that unlock D20 modern the effects of burst and autofire are baked into the weapons so this works better than I had thought since feats can just improve on these usages.

[Lemmy]

Well... I wouldn't use the wording "count as having VS" because it'd mean that wielding the weapon allows you to qualify for stuff that has VS as a prerequisite. I should also add a note saying that VS only increases the base damage of one projectile, not of all that were shot in the burst.

I'm not sure if I should limit Burst to standard actions... That would be the easiest way to stop it from being too powerful, but would also make it completely identical to VS and risk making the modification too weak...

It also should probably be limited to Firearms and Crank[Automatic] weapons... But I'm always torn between "making sense" and "allows for more freedom"... And when i doubt, I tend to go with the latter.

[noob]

Well... I wouldn't use the wording "count as having VS" because it'd mean that wielding the weapon allows you to qualify for stuff that has VS as a prerequisite. I should also add a note saying that VS only increases the base damage of one projectile, not of all that were shot in the burst.

most stuff that has vital strike as a requisite are feats that boost vital strike and that prevents the weapon from stacking with vital strike so I see no problems with that: you trade weapon power for feats.
since alternate damage says "the weapon can only deal one type of damage per attack" picking it up after elemental damage and solid Energy you might add your strength to damage one more time(pick up a ranged weapon then elemental damage then solid elemental damage(you now apply your strength modifier once) then pick up alternate damage slashing and so you now deal slashing damage or elemental damage but you can not do both at the same time(allowing you do do physical damage which is much less resisted) then take String Weapon and you have a weapon that apply two times strength modifier at range)
Alternatively just make a light gun and then you can enchant it with agile(+1 enchant in pathfinder which is generally not on firearms because they are not light) and so have more times dex to damage

Also there is a table for range but there is no table for range increments(nor table for guessing how many range increments a weapon have)
Finally how many ammo a weapon have by default?
There is a flaw who needs a weapon to have more than 3 ammo in it initially for having the flaw applied but if all weapons starts at 1 then it means that you can take this flaw only if you apply the quality that have the same effect per cost.

[Lemmy]

Thanks for the post, noob. Let me address your points.

most stuff that has vital strike as a requisite are feats that boost vital strike and that prevents the weapon from stacking with vital strike so I see no problems with that: you trade weapon power for feats.

Well... I'll keep that idea in mind. For now, though... I don't even have a definitive version of Burst to add to main googledoc (it's still limited to my draft document) .

since alternate damage says "the weapon can only deal one type of damage per attack" picking it up after elemental damage and solid Energy you might add your strength to damage one more time(pick up a ranged weapon then elemental damage then solid elemental damage(you now apply your strength modifier once) then pick up alternate damage slashing and so you now deal slashing damage or elemental damage but you can not do both at the same time(allowing you do do physical damage which is much less resisted) then take String Weapon and you have a weapon that apply two times strength modifier at range)
Alternatively just make a light gun and then you can enchant it with agile(+1 enchant in pathfinder which is generally not on firearms because they are not light) and so have more times dex to damage

That's... Not how it works:

All damage caused by an weapon with this modification is considered energy damage of a certain type, such as acid or fire. Weapons with this modification target touch AC, but don’t add the wielder’s Strength modifier to damage rolls.

(bolded for emphasis)

It doesn't matter if the weapons deal a dozen other different types of damage. If it has the Elemental Damage modification, it does not add Str to damage rolls. Period. There's no rule saying that bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage necessarily adds your Str modifier to damage rolls. That's a general rule for melee attacks, but Elemental Damage creates an specific exception to it, and since specific trumps general, your bludgeoning/lightning lightsaber-mace won't work (without the Solid Energy modification, that is).

A generous GM might allow you to use Alternate Damage to have a weapon that can alternate between Elemental Damage (does not add Str modifier) and bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage (adds Str modifier). I probably wouldn't.

The Agile lopphole also wouldn't work... First, it can only be added to weapons that allow the use of Weapon Finesse (that excludes all ranged weapons). Second: It places your Dex bonus in place of your Str bonus. If there's no Str bonus to begin with, there's nothing for your Dex bonus to replace.

Also there is a table for range but there is no table for range increments(nor table for guessing how many range increments a weapon have)

Well, the Ranged Weapon Templates tables (tables 2.01 - 2.03) say the base range of each template. Now... If I'm not mistaken, all ranged weapons have 4 range increments with the exact same distance (e.g.: a bow with range of 90 ft would have range increments 0 to 90, 90 to 180, 180 to 270 and 270 to 360). I believe that's hard-coded into the ranged weapons rules of 3.5/Pathfinder, but I must admit I'm not sure.

Finally how many ammo a weapon have by default?
There is a flaw who needs a weapon to have more than 3 ammo in it initially for having the flaw applied but if all weapons starts at 1 then it means that you can take this flaw only if you apply the quality that have the same effect per cost.

That's a good point. Most medieval weapons have a standard ammo capacity of 1 (or 0, in the case of bows, where you load as you shoot), so having a flaw that just compensates for a modification you paid for is pretty much pointless... Unless the GM decides that the game takes place in a setting where certain weapons (such as firearms) are common and advanced enough to get 2~3 instances of Improved Ammo Capacity for free.

Keep in mind that my humble homebrew assumes the usual medieval/renaissance-ish fantasy world so typical of D&D and Pathfinder, but it can be used for different types of settings as well... As long as certain considerations are made:

We have the following paragraph in the document:

Some weapon modifications (such as Gunpowder and Crank (Automatic)) may require a higher level of technological advancement than what is present in a certain setting. As such, these modifications may have “Exotic Weapon” as an additional requirement, make the weapon far more expensive, only be known to certain people or even not exist at all.
The GM is always the final arbiter of what modifications are available and what are their effects on a weapon’s price and availability.

(bolded for emphasis)

I only mention limitations there, but the reverse is also true: If a particular modification is common enough, it'd make sense for the GM to reduce its price or even give it for free to certain weapons. It all depends on what you want to be standard weapon of your setting. Notice that there's no extra cost to not make your weapons not have the Fragile property. That's because the system assumes the setting is technologically advanced enough to make non-Fragile weapons the rule and Fragile weapons the exception.

All that said, I thank you for pointing out the problem with the Reduced Ammo Capacity flaw. I'll probably make a note about how some settings should probably allow certain modifications to be the standard, rather than an increase.

As usual, thank you for your interest. I hope I could clear things up.

[noob]

I said elemental damage combined with the solid energy damage modification the latter giving strength modifier to weapons using the elemental damage modification so go in your guide and see:

"Solid Energy: By greatly increasing the concentration and potency of the energy flow, this modification makes the energy produced by a weapon with the Elemental Damage modification to act as if it were effectively solid. This allows the wielder to add his Strength modifier to damage rolls, but also makes the weapon target normal AC instead of touch AC.
Requirements: Elemental Damage. Craft Points: 1"

so I can add strength damage with that modification even through I am using a ranged weapon.
You could have read the full list of modifiers I applied on the theoretical bow.

the interpretation about the agile on ranged weapon was because I through that "you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier" could apply to stuff that did not had a strength modifier.
If it is forbidden I guess a ghost using a ghost touch light agile weapon gets no benefits from it since he did not had a strength modifier to replace with his finesse so this weapon was not finessable for him.
(The only reason why a light ranged weapon could possibly be not finessable is because they use dex to hit but the finesse feat talks of light weapons and a bunch of exceptions but not of ranged weapons)
(ghosts always use dex for weapons so the argument that prevents the light ranged weapons from being finessable prevents the ghosts from using weapon finesse)

[Lemmy]

I said elemental damage combined with the solid energy damage modification the latter giving strength modifier to weapons using the elemental damage modification so go in your guide and see:

so I can add strength damage with that modification even through I am using a ranged weapon.
You could have read the full list of modifiers I applied on the theoretical bow.

Ah, my bad. I somehow missed it. Pardon me .Here's some apology cookies .

I suppose I'll add a "as normal" to the Solid Energy description... That should make it clear that it isn't some extra Strength modification, just what you'd usually get anyway from a melee weapon (or crank/string weapon).

EDIT: Also, didn't Paizo release an errata saying that you can't add the same attribute twice to the same roll?

the interpretation about the agile on ranged weapon was because I through that "you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier" could apply to stuff that did not had a strength modifier.
If it is forbidden I guess a ghost using a ghost touch light agile weapon gets no benefits from it since he did not had a strength modifier to replace with his finesse so this weapon was not finessable for him.
(The only reason why a light ranged weapon could possibly be not finessable is because they use dex to hit but the finesse feat talks of light weapons and a bunch of exceptions but not of ranged weapons)

Well... The rules do say that incorporeal creatures use Cha instead of Str... So maybe their Charisma score/modifier counts as pseudo-Strength score/modifier for the purpose of this rule... I don't know. Gonna have to ask Paizo on that one.

[noob]

A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon can shoot to 10 range increments

On the pfsrd
So I guess you could shrink a bit the range increments of the ranged weapons if you want to keep the same ranges.
Guns have five range increments if early and 10 if advanced(And if they are advanced they attack touch armor class up to 5 increments away but counts as hitting touch ac for the purposes of effects which might happen due to the attack only if the target is within one increment).
Since you did chose them to attack touch ac in one range increment it probably means that they are early ones for range purposes(and so attack stuff from within 5 range increments)

Oh and also in this page http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/
There is rules about weapon creation(but not as cool as yours)
(And with silly stuff like how you can snipe someone at 1200 feet and due to the fact you did a 20 somehow the target is immediately brought to you(apply the grapple modifier on a long ranged weapon)(I can picture the scene in my head and I have an hard time imagining the pain of someone being dragged on 1200 feet in 6 seconds)(it is due to the fact that if you grapple someone he gets where you are(which happens often when a giant monster grapple someone within his huge reach)))
Imagine dragging someone at 60,96 meters per second.

[Lemmy]

On the pfsrd
So I guess you could shrink a bit the range increments of the ranged weapons if you want to keep the same ranges.
Guns have five range increments if early and 10 if advanced(And if they are advanced they attack touch armor class up to 5 increments away but counts as hitting touch ac for the purposes of effects which might happen due to the attack only if the target is within one increment).
Since you did chose them to attack touch ac in one range increment it probably means that they are early ones for range purposes(and so attack stuff from within 5 range increments)

I see. I honestly didn't know (or at least didn't remember) that rule... Probably because shooting beyond 2~3 range increments is exceedingly rare in 3.X/Pathfinder... But, well... If that's how the rules are, I'll just let them be as they are. I don't mind if my weapons' have slightly different range than the ones in the books. As usual, whatever isn't explicitly changed in my homebrew is assumed to work the same way it does by RAW (or whatever rules the player/GM are using). I knew about advanced firearms targeting touch AC on all range increments... I just didn't bother with it (like I said, my homebrew's base assumption is the typical medieval/renaissance-ish fanasy setting), but I might add an "Advanced Firearm" modification of some kind.

Oh and also in this page http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/
There is rules about weapon creation(but not as cool as yours)
(And with silly stuff like how you can snipe someone at 1200 feet and due to the fact you did a 20 somehow the target is immediately brought to you(apply the grapple modifier on a long ranged weapon)(I can picture the scene in my head and I have an hard time imagining the pain of someone being dragged on 1200 feet in 6 seconds)(it is due to the fact that if you grapple someone he gets where you are(which happens often when a giant monster grapple someone within his huge reach)))
Imagine dragging someone at 60,96 meters per second.

Oh, yeah... I know about those. Heh... If you allow me to be less-than-modest for moment, I'd like to point out that not only my homebrew is far better than these rules (even in its earliest version), but also that it predates them by at least a year!

Then again... You can't play sniper Scorpion-from-Mortal-Kombat using my rules, so they get that point!

[noob]

I knew about advanced firearms targeting touch AC on all range increments... I just didn't bother with it (like I said, my homebrew's base assumption is the typical medieval/renaissance-ish fanasy setting), but I might add an "Advanced Firearm" modification of some kind.

It does not: modern firearms targets touch ac on the five first range increments but can shoot at stuff at 10 range increments.
Early firearms can shoot only at stuff within 5 range increments unlike regular ranged weapons(like crossbows and bows which shoots at 10 range increments) so if the modification corresponds to early firearms you should probably say that it halve the number of range increments at which the weapon can shoot

[Lemmy]

Indeed... As a reward for pointing that out, I'll give you a sneak peek at the draft version of modifications yet to come and the Special Ammo chapter :

(Keep in mind that this' just the early draft of these ideas... I'll probably fine-tune them a bit more before adding them to the main document).

Spoiler: Draft - Modifications (WiP)

Show

Burst Fire: A weapon with this modification can shoot multiple projectiles in rapid succession. When it hits its target, it deals additional damage equal to the weapon’s base damage die, but also spends 1 additional ammo unit. This extra damage is not multiplied on a critical hit nor by abilities such as the Vital Strike feat. It’s not possible to use this modification if the weapon is not loaded with enough ammo to spend.
Special: This modification can be taken multiple times. Each time it’s taken, the damage die is increased one more time, as is the ammo expenditure.
Requirements: Ranged weapon, Ammo Capacity 2 or higher. Craft Points: 2

Elaborate Hilt: This weapon’s hilt has a complex, well-designed guard that offer full protection to the user’s hand. It grants a +2 bonus to CMD against Disarm and Sunder attempts targeting the weapon and a +4 bonus to AC against physical attacks targeting the limb being used to wield it.
Requirements: None. Craft Points: 1

Energy Conduit: In addition to its normal damage, this weapon deals +1d6 damage of a certain type of energy (acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic). The weapon itself is not made of the energy, simply enveloped by it, but must also be recharged in some way, such as by adding more fuel or changing its battery. More advanced weapons can lose the necessity of a recharge by increasing the craft cost by +1 cp the first time this modification is added.
Special: This modification can be taken multiple times. No additional types of energy are selected. Instead, each time it’s added, it increases the damage die of the energy damage by 1 step, following the progression for light and one-handed weapons found in table 3.01 - Weapon Damage Progression.
Requirements: None. Craft Points: 2

Firearm, Advanced: This firearm is capable of targeting Touch AC on its first 5 range increments.
Requirements: Ranged weapon,Gunpowder Weapon modification. Craft Points: 3

Sniper: This weapon can be used at exceedingly long distances. It increases its total number of range increments by 5. Additionally it allows the weapon to deal precision damage from as far as 3 range increments (minimum 60 ft).
Requirements: Ranged weapon. Craft Points: 1

Motorblade [Edge]: This weapon has an close-range propulsion engine that moves its end without help of its wielder. This engine increases the effect of the weapon on its target, effectively replacing the user’s strength. The one wielding the weapon does not add his strength modifier to damage rolls, but adds a bonus innate to the weapon. However, using such a weapon is particularly difficult due to its vibrations The innate bonus to damage is limited by the user’s skill, and won’t surpass [2 + half the user’s BAB] (rounded down).
Motorblade weapons usually require fuel or energy charges to start and work, however, particularly advanced weapons can lose this limitation by increasing the cost of the modification by +1 cp.
Each point of damage bonus granted by the weapon adds 100 gp to its cost.
Requirements: Melee Weapon. Craft Points: 0*
Designer’s Note: Despite its name, this modification can potentially be used to represent any kind of damage bonus innate to the weapon.

Phew... After this, I think I'm done with modifications, unless I come up with a really good idea or am given an equally good suggestion...

Spoiler: Draft - Special Ammo

Show

Alchemical: In addition to its normal damage, this projectile deals +1d6 damage of a certain type of energy (acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic)
Cost: 5 gp/unit Craft Points: 2

Anchoring: This ammo can be used to stick the target to a nearby object. When the attacker successfully deals damage to its target when using this ammo, he can immediately make a Grapple check against the target’s CMD. If successful, the creature gains the Grappled condition and is anchored to an object adjacent to it. This ammo has no effects on creatures who are at more than 2 size categories bigger than the wielder of the weapon using the anchoring ammo.
Cost: 5 gp/unit Craft Points: 1

Tangling: This ammo can be used to cause your target to be Entangled. To do so, you must make a ranged touch attack with your weapon. If you succeed, your target is Entangled, but you lose hold of your weapon and can’t wield it for as long as it’s entangled to the target.
The Entangled creature can escape by making a DC 20 Escape Artist check or by sundering your weapon.
Cost: 5 gp/unit Craft Points: 1

Coated: This ammo is coated in some substance (typically poison). A target hit by a weapon using this ammo is automatically injected with the substance in question and must make the appropriate saving throws to resist its effects.
Cost: - [/B]Craft Points:[/B] 1

Not sure how to limit the ammo design... Right now, I'm thinking all ammo should have 3 cp, and ammo modifications would cost either 1, 2 or 3 cp. I'm also not sure if I should give each type of ammo a different gold cost, or just use an universal pricing system of some kind.

[Swaoeaeieu]

hey there Lemmy, nice system. a few things i wonder about:

retractable property: '' When it’s retracted, you’re not considered to be wielding the weapon and cannot attack with it, but it completely vanishes from sight. It’s impossible to anyone who is not familiar with the weapon to detect it without close examination.''
Migh i suggest that your weapon does not just cease to exist but looks harmles instead? the wording is ambiguous. and maybe not make it impossible to tell but give it a big bonus to look harmless or something?

how does the double weapon mod work for profficiencies? is it one weapon, or two? (i am slightly in love with the combination weapons prime32 wrote up here)

The system seems to float between magitech and just straight up scify, i get the feeling this is on purpose, maybe add a small indication wich parts are high tech if the dm allows that stuff.

Pathfinder and 3.5 allready have some modifications for weapons, wand chambers come to mind. those might be good subject to add to your lists, or are they just compatible as is?

and last but not least: This looks kind off perfect for Dreamscarred press's Steelforge book, where they add weapon upgrades to pathfinder, maybe show it to one of their witers? I would love to see this kind of system backed even further.


Im going to keep an eye on this, might be my players would like to try it out someday.

P.s. i saw some discussion about a rapid fire modification, but isnt that what multishot and other ranged feats are for? Im all for making cool Rwby like weapons, but we shouldnt tread on the toes of classfeatures and feats :P

[Lemmy]

Hey, there, Swoo--... Saw--... Seow-- Fellow player!

Thank you for your interest in my humble project! I hope you like it (and don't mind my little joke... I really have no idea how to pronounce your name... )

hey there Lemmy, nice system. a few things i wonder about:

Thanks. I'll address your points one-by-one so to make clearer. Here we go!

retractable property: '' When it’s retracted, you’re not considered to be wielding the weapon and cannot attack with it, but it completely vanishes from sight. It’s impossible to anyone who is not familiar with the weapon to detect it without close examination.''
Migh i suggest that your weapon does not just cease to exist but looks harmles instead? the wording is ambiguous. and maybe not make it impossible to tell but give it a big bonus to look harmless or something?

Hmmm... You have a good point. I should probably make it so that the weapons handle and/or object to which it's attached remains visible, but the weapon's blade vanishes from sight, undetectable to those unfamiliar with the weapon without close inspection.

how does the double weapon mod work for profficiencies? is it one weapon, or two? (i am slightly in love with the combination weapons prime32 wrote up here)

It's a single weapon with two "ends", just like in Pathfinder's RAW. After all, you can't practice with one without practicing with the other... (Well, actually, you can, thanks to the Splitting modification, but that ruins my point, so I'll just ignore it) ;

The system seems to float between magitech and just straight up scify, i get the feeling this is on purpose, maybe add a small indication wich parts are high tech if the dm allows that stuff.

Actually, it can go from stone age weapons to sci-fi and everything in-between... And that's on purpose. Pathfinder and 3.5 allow for a huge diversity of settings and scenarios. While I focused more on "ye olde medieval/renaissance fantasy setting" so common to those systems, I wanted my homebrew to be able to be useful in all sorts of settings and campaigns.

The reason I don't specify what modifications belong to one scenario or another is to allow players and GMs to use their imagination. I tried to make modifications as open-ended as possible so that they can reflect many different types of properties... Let's take a classic magitech/sci-fi modification as an example: energy damage... What kind of weapon does it represent? It could very well be any of the following: a lightsaber/psionic blade (magichtech), a plasma blaster (sci-fi), a flaregun or flamethrower (modern day)... Or a simple torch (anything from as early as the stone age).

That's why I don't want to limit certain weapon properties to specific types or settings.

All that said, the googledoc does have the following entry right before the "Weapon Modification" chapter:

Some weapon modifications (such as Firearm and Crank (Automatic)) may require a higher level of technological advancement than what is present in a certain setting. As such, these modifications may be restricted to exotic weapons, make the weapon far more expensive, only be known to certain people or even not exist at all. On the other hand, in sufficiently technologically advanced settings, some modifications may be commonplace, making them cheaper or even freely given to certain weapons.
The GM is always the final arbiter of what modifications are available and what are their effects on a weapon’s price and availability.

That is a reminder to GMs that these can be modified and adapted to different games... In modern-day type of setting, for example, it'd be reasonable to say all firearms start with ammo capacity 6 before modifications.

Pathfinder and 3.5 allready have some modifications for weapons, wand chambers come to mind. those might be good subject to add to your lists, or are they just compatible as is?

If it works for RAW, it works for my system. I made it specifically so that it could be used in conjunction with the weapon rules from RAW, if the GM and players want it... If you really want to use a weapon from the books but can't perfectly recreate it using my system... Then just take it from the books! Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System is meant to give you more options, not take them away.

and last but not least: This looks kind off perfect for Dreamscarred press's Steelforge book, where they add weapon upgrades to pathfinder, maybe show it to one of their writers? I would love to see this kind of system backed even further.

Well... I honestly don't know how I feel about using this for profit... I honestly am truly proud of this project. It's simple, accessible, versatile and brings a lot of variety a creativity into the game (since I started using it, I never saw another game where everyone uses scimitars, falchions and/or longbows). I could see myself fine-tuning it even further, adding more stuff and maybe selling it as a cheap pdf... OTOH, I don't think I'm no game-designer. I'd rather not assume my work is at a professional designer's level. I just want to share cool ideas with other players. Homebrew (both mine and from other creators) added a lot of fun to my games... I want others to have the same experience.

Im going to keep an eye on this, might be my players would like to try it out someday.

Thank you. I hope you enjoy it. Do share your experience if you ever use it.

P.s. i saw some discussion about a rapid fire modification, but isnt that what multishot and other ranged feats are for? Im all for making cool Rwby like weapons, but we shouldnt tread on the toes of class features and feats :P

Well... You have a point. A weapon shouldn't just replace character abilities... But OTOH, replacing and multiplying skill is exactly what weapons do. That's why we use them. Any moron with a gun (or even just a simple kitchen knife) can kill a trained warrior (although training always helps, of course. A professional soldier will be far more deadly than me with a gun). But that's just the "simulationist Point of View...

There's also the game design/balance PoV to consider. And from that point I must agree that in general, weapons shouldn't replace character's feats and abilities... And they don't. The "Burst" modification is basically a "free", but much less effective version of Manyshot. But rhere's more! Just because a modification exists in the googledoc, doesn't mean it's available in every game, setting or timeline. A GM could very well use my system to create a shorter, but better balance and more varied weapon list, rather than using Pathfinder and D&D's bloated list hundreds of "different" weapons that are all basically the same or objectively inferior/superior to all others (I've done it myself). Said list could simply not contain weapons with certain modifications, like Burst, Elemental Damage, Firearm, etc.

Do weapons large ammo capacity or really low reload time make Rapid Reload basically useless? Sure... But if the GM/players don't want such firearms to exist, they don't.
Should weapon modifications such as Burst and Energy Conduit exist in a "realistic" medieval setting? Probably not. So they don't... Unless the GM/players want them to.

Remember: This system is meant to give you more options. Not restrictions or requirements... Options. And one of those options is not using all of it at the same time. Use what you want, when you want, where you want.

Anyway... Sorry for the long post. And once again, thank you for your interest! I hope you can enjoy this system at least as much as I do.

[Swaoeaeieu]

You reply to my post piece by piece, so let me return in kind.

Hey, there, Swoo--... Saw--... Seow-- Fellow player!

Thank you for your interest in my humble project! I hope you like it (and don't mind my little joke... I really have no idea how to pronounce your name... )

Mwa-ha-ha another victim to my cunning ruse. Let's just say i won that little contest about coming up with the most unique but hard to pronounce username

Hmmm... You have a good point. I should probably make it so that the weapons handle and/or object to which it's attached remains visible, but the weapon's blade vanishes from sight, undetectable to those unfamiliar with the weapon without close inspection.

The inspection getting a penalty of some sort. Undetectable makes it a little too binary.

It's a single weapon with two "ends", just like in Pathfinder's RAW. After all, you can't practice with one without practicing with the other... (Well, actually, you can, thanks to the Splitting modification, but that ruins my point, so I'll just ignore it) ;

But what if you make a double weapon of a martial weapon at one point and an exotic one on the other. are you proficient in its use?

Actually, it can go from stone age weapons to sci-fi and everything in-between... And that's on purpose. Pathfinder and 3.5 allow for a huge diversity of settings and scenarios. While I focused more on "ye olde medieval/renaissance fantasy setting" so common to those systems, I wanted my homebrew to be able to be useful in all sorts of settings and campaigns.

The reason I don't specify what modifications belong to one scenario or another is to allow players and GMs to use their imagination. I tried to make modifications as open-ended as possible so that they can reflect many different types of properties... Let's take a classic magitech/sci-fi modification as an example: energy damage... What kind of weapon does it represent? It could very well be any of the following: a lightsaber/psionic blade (magichtech), a plasma blaster (sci-fi), a flaregun or flamethrower (modern day)... Or a simple torch (anything from as early as the stone age).

That's why I don't want to limit certain weapon properties to specific types or settings.

All that said, the googledoc does have the following entry right before the "Weapon Modification" chapter:
That is a reminder to GMs that these can be modified and adapted to different games... In modern-day type of setting, for example, it'd be reasonable to say all firearms start with ammo capacity 6 before modifications.

yea my bad for having a limited imagination then :P

If it works for RAW, it works for my system. I made it specifically so that it could be used in conjunction with the weapon rules from RAW, if the GM and players want it... If you really want to use a weapon from the books but can't perfectly recreate it using my system... Then just take it from the books! Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System is meant to give you more options, not take them away.

Well sure, if the existing weapon mods work with the system, no need to add them. However, are you familliar with the spear- and warspikard from one of the ebberon books? that might be a good upgrade for double weapons with ranged and melee weapons in them
And maybe as an upgrade to double, take a loot at the combination weapons i linked too earlier, it feels like an elegant combination of double, hideaway and others.

Well... I honestly don't know how I feel about using this for profit... I honestly am truly proud of this project. It's simple, accessible, versatile and brings a lot of variety a creativity into the game (since I started using it, I never saw another game where everyone uses scimitars, falchions and/or longbows). I could see myself fine-tuning it even further, adding more stuff and maybe selling it as a cheap pdf... OTOH, I don't think I'm no game-designer. I'd rather not assume my work is at a professional designer's level. I just want to share cool ideas with other players. Homebrew (both mine and from other creators) added a lot of fun to my games... I want others to have the same experience.

Maybe not for profit then, but the steelforge playtest has some nice nonmagical weapon additions you could look at. and the writers there are very talented, they could even help improve the system a little. ^^

Thank you. I hope you enjoy it. Do share your experience if you ever use it.

i will ^^

Well... You have a point. A weapon shouldn't just replace character abilities... But OTOH, replacing and multiplying skill is exactly what weapons do. That's why we use them. Any moron with a gun (or even just a simple kitchen knife) can kill a trained warrior (although training always helps, of course. A professional soldier will be far more deadly than me with a gun). But that's just the "simulationist Point of View...

There's also the game design/balance PoV to consider. And from that point I must agree that in general, weapons shouldn't replace character's feats and abilities... And they don't. The "Burst" modification is basically a "free", but much less effective version of Manyshot. But rhere's more! Just because a modification exists in the googledoc, doesn't mean it's available in every game, setting or timeline. A GM could very well use my system to create a shorter, but better balance and more varied weapon list, rather than using Pathfinder and D&D's bloated list hundreds of "different" weapons that are all basically the same or objectively inferior/superior to all others (I've done it myself). Said list could simply not contain weapons with certain modifications, like Burst, Elemental Damage, Firearm, etc.

Do weapons large ammo capacity or really low reload time make Rapid Reload basically useless? Sure... But if the GM/players don't want such firearms to exist, they don't.
Should weapon modifications such as Burst and Energy Conduit exist in a "realistic" medieval setting? Probably not. So they don't... Unless the GM/players want them to.

Remember: This system is meant to give you more options. Not restrictions or requirements... Options. And one of those options is not using all of it at the same time. Use what you want, when you want, where you want.

More options is always better. But game balance is also a nice thing. But giving players a better way to play what they want is nicer :P

[Lemmy]

The inspection getting a penalty of some sort. Undetectable makes it a little too binary.

Well... It's undetectable only if A- The observer is not familiar with the weapon, and B- without close inspection. It can still be detected by holding it in hands and checking it out carefully...

But what if you make a double weapon of a martial weapon at one point and an exotic one on the other. are you proficient in its use?

Huh... I could swear I had written it so that both "ends" of a double weapon share the same category (simple/martial/exotic). I should fix that... Ugh... Stupid Double modification is always giving me extra work...

Well sure, if the existing weapon mods work with the system, no need to add them. However, are you familliar with the spear- and warspikard from one of the ebberon books? that might be a good upgrade for double weapons with ranged and melee weapons in them
And maybe as an upgrade to double, take a loot at the combination weapons i linked too earlier, it feels like an elegant combination of double, hideaway and others.

Good point. I'll take another look at them.

More options is always better. But game balance is also a nice thing. But giving players a better way to play what they want is nicer :P

I did try to make my system balanced (although all point-buy can be gamed and abused to an extent). I don't think there's any game-breaking modification... Even the more powerful ones, like Burst Fire, probably won't break anything... Although I'm sure there's some template/modification/flaw combination that can push things farther than I expected. It's the nature of point-buy systems...

[Swaoeaeieu]

Damnit Lemmy, i didnt get anything done at work today, your system is stuck in my head!

Well... It's undetectable only if A- The observer is not familiar with the weapon, and B- without close inspection. It can still be detected by holding it in hands and checking it out carefully...

Huh... I could swear I had written it so that both "ends" of a double weapon share the same category (simple/martial/exotic). I should fix that... Ugh... Stupid Double modification is always giving me extra work...

Good point. I'll take another look at them.

I did try to make my system balanced (although all point-buy can be gamed and abused to an extent). I don't think there's any game-breaking modification... Even the more powerful ones, like Burst Fire, probably won't break anything... Although I'm sure there's some template/modification/flaw combination that can push things farther than I expected. It's the nature of point-buy systems...

if it is detectable, that sounds like a spot or perception of 15 or higher or something. wich is the kind of clarification that paragraph could use :P

yea double weapons are complicated, you could go the route that all double weapons are automatic exotic, making it easier to arbiter. also, do you have to pay for the other end of the double weapon? text doesnt mention it.

If you like em i bet i can offer up more suggestions. :D

Balance is a bitch, i cant see any obvious holes in it right now, but more eyes looking at it might help.

some more thougts in no apparant order:

On the subject of feedback and people offering suggestions, perhaps you could allow notes in the googledoc so people can point out typo's or grammar and formatting issues.
Pathfinder weapon creation has the shield mod. wich might be a good one for your system as wel. Though most of what is there is in yours as well.

Gravitas material: two steps higher damage? isnt that a bit much? or is this material going to be expensive to counter that? It reminds me of gold or platinum in Magic of Fearun, turning a weapon exotic and increasing damage 1 step.

propulsion: string. thats a bow of some sort then? the wording makes me confused on what it means :P

as a matter of fact, you mention that no weapon can have two mods with the same category. maybe add a small section describing the categories? propulsion for ranged weapons, edge for the striking part of melee etc.

more thoughts to come for sure, glad to help or contribute ^^

[khadgar567]

you know our french friend is kinda right on category explanation thing and damn that gravitas is kinda powerful when you can get d12 damage from normal build so you might wanna nerf that sucker little bit

[Swaoeaeieu]

you know our french friend is kinda right on category explanation thing and damn that gravitas is kinda powerful when you can get d12 damage from normal build so you might wanna nerf that sucker little bit

who are you calling a Frenchy? I have never been so insulted in my life!

[khadgar567]

who are you calling a Frenchy? I have never been so insulted in my life!

then explain how that name pronounced.

[Swaoeaeieu]

then explain how that name pronounced.

i usually go with:
Swaaaah- (as in the dentist says aaaaaahhh)
ooooh- (as in the crowd oohs and aaahs at a stunt show)
aaaah-(again the dentist)
eeej (go fonzy)
eeee (high pitched girly scream)
eu (as in the very first sylable in Europe)

there you have it. Swaoeaeieu, pleased to meat you.

its based on placing a bunch ov vowels after one another and pronouncing them the dutch way ^^

[Lemmy]

Damnit Lemmy, i didnt get anything done at work today, your system is stuck in my head!

Hah! That's my revenge! You can confuse the language center of my brain with your weird name tag, but I can affect your very source of sustenance!

if it is detectable, that sounds like a spot or perception of 15 or higher or something. wich is the kind of clarification that paragraph could use :P

Yeah... That makes sense... I just really don't want to make the entry even longer. It keeps ruining my page layout!

yea double weapons are complicated, you could go the route that all double weapons are automatic exotic, making it easier to arbiter. also, do you have to pay for the other end of the double weapon? text doesnt mention it.

Eh... I don't know... Double weapons include things such as quarterstaves, after all... I guess I'll just bite the bullet and make the entry for Double weapons even longer by specifying that both ends must belong to the same weapon category (simple/martial/exotic).

If you like em i bet i can offer up more suggestions. :D

I'm always happy to hear feedback from other players.

On the subject of feedback and people offering suggestions, perhaps you could allow notes in the googledoc so people can point out typo's or grammar and formatting issues.

That's an interesting idea... I had a few bad experiences with allowing comments in the document before, though... That's why I only allow visualization now... Then again, the people seeing my RPG stuff are usually RPG players, which IME are considerably more polite than the average internet dweller.

Pathfinder weapon creation has the shield mod. wich might be a good one for your system as wel. Though most of what is there is in yours as well.

You see... That modification would be pointless in my homebrew... You can already simply use the "Attached" modification to have a weapon attached to your shield... Or armor... Or helmet... Or anything else.

Gravitas material: two steps higher damage? isnt that a bit much? or is this material going to be expensive to counter that? It reminds me of gold or platinum in Magic of Fearun, turning a weapon exotic and increasing damage 1 step.

(...)damn that gravitas is kinda powerful when you can get d12 damage from normal build so you might wanna nerf that sucker little bit

Well... The weapon does weigh 16 times more than usual... That means a simple longsword would weigh 64 pounds! That means characters would need Str 15 just to carry it without going into medium load. I think increasing it by just 1 category is pretty much irrelevant for all but the highest damage dice. I thought about adding a Str requirement to be able to use the blade without suffering a -2 or -4 penalty to attack rolls (like Str 20 for medium creatures, 24 for large, etc)... But in the end, I felt it would be too convoluted.

propulsion: string. thats a bow of some sort then? the wording makes me confused on what it means :P

as a matter of fact, you mention that no weapon can have two mods with the same category. maybe add a small section describing the categories? propulsion for ranged weapons, edge for the striking part of melee etc.

you know our french friend is kinda right on category explanation thing (...)

Yeah... String weapons are meant to represent bows (and also crossbows, originally, before I made separate modification for those). The reason modification categories don't have an explanation is because... Well... I didn't think of any. Nor did I see the need for them. The only reason they exist is to stop weapons from having modifications that conflict with each other (e.g.: if your weapon is a firearm, how could it have a string to shoot the projectile? If it's a whip, how could it simultaneously have a rigid handle to use as a spear?)

more thoughts to come for sure, glad to help or contribute ^^

I'll gladly listen to them and at very least, take them in consideration.

[Swaoeaeieu]

Yeah... That makes sense... I just really don't want to make the entry even longer. It keeps ruining my page layout!

But... in my very humble opinion, shouldnt balance and clarity of rules be more important then page layout?

Eh... I don't know... Double weapons include things such as quarterstaves, after all... I guess I'll just bite the bullet and make the entry for Double weapons even longer by specifying that both ends must belong to the same weapon category (simple/martial/exotic).

This might not be a bad thing, it makes double a slightly less epic modification, but opens up the door for an improved version that does allow category mixing.

That's an interesting idea... I had a few bad experiences with allowing comments in the document before, though... That's why I only allow visualization now... Then again, the people seeing my RPG stuff are usually RPG players, which IME are considerably more polite than the average internet dweller.

Us rpg' ers arent all the kind you need to battle with fire and acid.
When i comment on homebrew or playtests i read the whole doc and go back to the thread afterwards to comment, wich in my case means i allready forgot the small details i wanted to mention. So being able to add a small note in the doc would be wonderfull for people like me.

You see... That modification would be pointless in my homebrew... You can already simply use the "Attached" modification to have a weapon attached to your shield... Or armor... Or helmet... Or anything else.

Ah yes, my bad. I thought it would be a niche distinction (a shield with an edge attached being different then a weapon big enough to block blows) but i realise thats just how you fluff the weapon, not mechanics.

Well... The weapon does weigh 16 times more than usual... That means a simple longsword would weigh 64 pounds! That means characters would need Str 15 just to carry it without going into medium load. I think increasing it by just 1 category is pretty much irrelevant for all but the highest damage dice. I thought about adding a Str requirement to be able to use the blade without suffering a -2 or -4 penalty to attack rolls (like Str 20 for medium creatures, 24 for large, etc)... But in the end, I felt it would be too convoluted.

So there are people who actively track their encumberance? huh, dont see those often anymore.
Maybe, because it is essentially the improved version of heavy weapons in magic of fearun, the material makes a weapon exotic as well. But at the end, 2 steps is too much depending on price, especially since heavy weapons are allready a thing.

Yeah... String weapons are meant to represent bows (and also crossbows, originally, before I made separate modification for those). The reason modification categories don't have an explanation is because... Well... I didn't think of any. Nor did I see the need for them. The only reason they exist is to stop weapons from having modifications that conflict with each other (e.g.: if your weapon is a firearm, how could it have a string to shoot the projectile? If it's a whip, how could it simultaneously have a rigid handle to use as a spear?)

For completions sake i guess, i think the goal of a good homebrew is to be so clear you can just give a relative unexperienced player the document and they would be able to figure it out, meaning some explenations and disclaimers to prevent confusion. For instance, a string propulsed weapon has to be two handed right? how else would it work
[edit] also string weapons: so a normal bow, with no added str in it. would still be hard to use for a str 8 pc? normal bows dont act like that, seems a little harsh. Maybe keep the string mod seperate from the str ruling, and add a composite mod. since in 3.5 (iirc) composite bows had the str dmg added in.

I'll gladly listen to them and at very least, take them in consideration.

glad you dont mind, this is the kind of weapon system dream chars are made off, so if i can help make it even better i'dd love to help. (My goal is to introduce a system to my players where they can create and use their own medievel RWBY style weapons, that stuffs whack yo!)