Military discipline question.

[Traab]

Can someone with experience in the military give me a reasonable approximation as to what sort of punishment would be in store if a new recruit did this? Im honestly thinking jail time is likely.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Depending on just how classified the meeting was, Life in Prison is possible. Although the fact they couldn't be bothered to lock the door (failure to take reasonable measures) would be a point for the defense.

[Altheus]

Can someone with experience in the military give me a reasonable approximation as to what sort of punishment would be in store if a new recruit did

Considering that this person is a recruit it might be "You're fired", but that isn't so much fun.

Assigned so many extra duties that their Military Operational Speciality becomes "Latrine Duty".

A month of day-on day-off sentry duty (Means you don't get to sleep much and still have to do your normal job).

There's probably far more inventive ones out there.

[Crow]

Probably not going to jail for that. Definitely reduced in grade though. Probably reassigned to something ****ty as well.

Edit; I thought you were asking what the consequences for the door sentry would be.

[Tvtyrant]

Can someone with experience in the military give me a reasonable approximation as to what sort of punishment would be in store if a new recruit did this? Im honestly thinking jail time is likely.

Quietly taken behind the shed and shot, I imagine (this is a joke.)

[Traab]

Probably not going to jail for that. Definitely reduced in grade though. Probably reassigned to something ****ty as well.

Edit; I thought you were asking what the consequences for the door sentry would be.

Well in his case there wasnt much he could do. He told her not to go in there and tried to stop her, she promptly shielded and forced him out of the way and unable to stop her. As for the rest of you, yeah, I figure a day 1 recruit PROBABLY wouldnt go to jail, but I couldnt dismiss the possibility. Most certainly I would imagine basic training bare minimum will be an absolute misery such as has not been seen in the history of man. Might even reach beyond that. Your entire time in service might be spent known as "That person who walked into a meeting with the president and screamed at a commanding officer and survived" Thats probably your rank too.

[AMFV]

I'm not sure what exactly is going on here. To get into that kind of classified meeting you'd have to go through multiple access points. Places where the guard has to push a button to let you in so you can't just breeze past them. I imagine it would really depend on what's going on. The thing is that if you're a recruit you can't really be expected to know better so it's likely you get Quarterdecked or ITed or smoked or whatever your particular of service calls it until you wished that you were dead, but not having any long-lasting penalties. If you were higher ranking and you did the same you would (believe it or not) have much harsher penalties. Although I'm not really sure if this is a traditional military environment at all.

Edit:

Well in his case there wasnt much he could do. He told her not to go in there and tried to stop her, she promptly shielded and forced him out of the way and unable to stop her. As for the rest of you, yeah, I figure a day 1 recruit PROBABLY wouldnt go to jail, but I couldnt dismiss the possibility. Most certainly I would imagine basic training bare minimum will be an absolute misery such as has not been seen in the history of man. Might even reach beyond that. Your entire time in service might be spent known as "That person who walked into a meeting with the president and screamed at a commanding officer and survived" Thats probably your rank too.

He'd probably be disciplined for not calling for help, and reporting it immediately to somebody, I expect. Since that is part of the general orders. Might even get a failure to follow orders for not "taking charge of his post" depends on your command though.

Edit 2: Actually there is an almost 100% chance that he would be much more harshly disciplined. Not necessarily in a physical punishment sense, but he would have it much worse. The worst case for a recruit is that they'd be considered an f- up for the rest of their training, and have miserable time of it. The sentry though, he's supposed to know better and be able to stop people from entering the room. A recruit isn't supposed to know anything. Hell, they're still teaching them things like "you need to shower nasty," which it turns not everybody learns from mommy and daddy. He on the other end is supposed to know his job. I wouldn't expect like a reduction in rank, but he might get actual paperwork for that.

[Strigon]

So, because I'm unfamiliar with the comic, I can't say exactly how the apparent superpowers fit into this. They likely change the dynamic, but without knowing how strong they are and whether or not they're unique, it's very difficult to say. In general, however, if someone was in the military and had powers like that, and they abused them as flippantly as they did here, they would be taught very quickly, and very harshly, that such actions wouldn't be tolerated.

But let's look at a more general case. A fresh recruit - sans superpowers - manages to get past the sole guard outside a meeting between the president and some top-ranking military officials, without even knowing what they were doing.
It's likely, though not certain, that their ignorance would blunt the punishment - though it may not look like that to the untrained eye. Ultimately, whether knowingly or not, they got into a highly-classified meeting, and the military couldn't afford to let anyone else think that was okay. The recruit's life would be miserable for a long time to come.

The misfortune wouldn't end there, though. In order for something like this to happen, there would need to be a truly astonishing failure to secure the meeting, from top to bottom. This begins with the guard outside the door, who, try as he might, failed in his duty. One could debate as to whether the recruit's entrance is or isn't his fault, but ultimately, he wouldn't be the first to be punished for something outside his control. Once again, a message would have to be sent.
However, the failure doesn't end with the guard. Whoever was in charge of setting up security thought that a single guard and a low-security door was sufficient for such a sensitive meeting. Their punishment might not be as public as the others', but it would be a career-ending mistake, to say the least. It's quite likely that even the person who assigned them to be in charge of security would have a black spot on their record.

Really, this would be an enormous embarrassment, and everyone involved would find themselves having a very, very bad time.

[Peelee]

I'm not sure what exactly is going on here. To get into that kind of classified meeting you'd have to go through multiple access points. Places where the guard has to push a button to let you in so you can't just breeze past them. I imagine it would really depend on what's going on. The thing is that if you're a recruit you can't really be expected to know better so it's likely you get Quarterdecked or ITed or smoked or whatever your particular of service calls it until you wished that you were dead, but not having any long-lasting penalties. If you were higher ranking and you did the same you would (believe it or not) have much harsher penalties. Although I'm not really sure if this is a traditional military environment at all.

Edit:



He'd probably be disciplined for not calling for help, and reporting it immediately to somebody, I expect. Since that is part of the general orders. Might even get a failure to follow orders for not "taking charge of his post" depends on your command though.

Edit 2: Actually there is an almost 100% chance that he would be much more harshly disciplined. Not necessarily in a physical punishment sense, but he would have it much worse. The worst case for a recruit is that they'd be considered an f- up for the rest of their training, and have miserable time of it. The sentry though, he's supposed to know better and be able to stop people from entering the room. A recruit isn't supposed to know anything. Hell, they're still teaching them things like "you need to shower nasty," which it turns not everybody learns from mommy and daddy. He on the other end is supposed to know his job. I wouldn't expect like a reduction in rank, but he might get actual paperwork for that.

So, because I'm unfamiliar with the comic, I can't say exactly how the apparent superpowers fit into this. They likely change the dynamic, but without knowing how strong they are and whether or not they're unique, it's very difficult to say. In general, however, if someone was in the military and had powers like that, and they abused them as flippantly as they did here, they would be taught very quickly, and very harshly, that such actions wouldn't be tolerated.

But let's look at a more general case. A fresh recruit - sans superpowers - manages to get past the sole guard outside a meeting between the president and some top-ranking military officials, without even knowing what they were doing.
It's likely, though not certain, that their ignorance would blunt the punishment - though it may not look like that to the untrained eye. Ultimately, whether knowingly or not, they got into a highly-classified meeting, and the military couldn't afford to let anyone else think that was okay. The recruit's life would be miserable for a long time to come.

The misfortune wouldn't end there, though. In order for something like this to happen, there would need to be a truly astonishing failure to secure the meeting, from top to bottom. This begins with the guard outside the door, who, try as he might, failed in his duty. One could debate as to whether the recruit's entrance is or isn't his fault, but ultimately, he wouldn't be the first to be punished for something outside his control. Once again, a message would have to be sent.
However, the failure doesn't end with the guard. Whoever was in charge of setting up security thought that a single guard and a low-security door was sufficient for such a sensitive meeting. Their punishment might not be as public as the others', but it would be a career-ending mistake, to say the least. It's quite likely that even the person who assigned them to be in charge of security would have a black spot on their record.

Really, this would be an enormous embarrassment, and everyone involved would find themselves having a very, very bad time.

I think y'all aren't taking into consideration that this isn't just "recruit walking in on high-level, secure meeting." The recruit also displays rampant insubordination, and goes so far as to threaten the officers (can't tell rank, but I think general is a fair guess, given the circumstances). I've not served in the military, but I would be gobsmacked if that didn't get the recruit booted out of the service at bare minimum, and most likely straight into prison. That right there seems prime for court martial. Sure, recruits aren't expected to know anything insofar as military training goes, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they are expected to know things like "don't threaten military officers."

[AMFV]

I think y'all aren't taking into consideration that this isn't just "recruit walking in on high-level, secure meeting." The recruit also displays rampant insubordination, and goes so far as to threaten the officers (can't tell rank, but I think general is a fair guess, given the circumstances). I've not served in the military, but I would be gobsmacked if that didn't get the recruit booted out of the service at bare minimum, and most likely straight into prison. That right there seems prime for court martial. Sure, recruits aren't expected to know anything insofar as military training goes, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they are expected to know things like "don't threaten military officers."

They're recruits, they don't even know how to shower properly. If it was a pattern of behavior they'd be pushed out with a failure to adapt. But you could probably get away with a lot. We had people desert when I was on Parris Island who later returned and were allowed to graduate. And desertion during wartime is a shooting offense. (Although that hasn't been done since World War 2)

[Rogar Demonblud]

That isn't a sentry. He's an office clerk. There was no security for this meeting beyond a closed door.

And yes, the one guy (Faulk) is a general, and the purple haired woman is a Lt Col.

[AMFV]

That isn't a sentry. He's an office clerk. There was no security for this meeting beyond a closed door.

And yes, the one guy (Faulk) is a general, and the purple haired woman is a Lt Col.

In the military everybody is a sentry, knowing how to do that is part of everyone's job like cleaning.

[Maelstrom]

She's breaking article 134 paragraph 111 and subject to a summary court martial.

Maximum sentence to include:

• 1 month confinement (E1-E4); or 45 days hard labor without confinement (E1-E4); 2 months restriction (E1-E9) (max combination of restriction/hard labor without confinement is 45 days).
• forfeiture 2/3 pay for one month
• reduction of 1 or more grades (E1-E4); 1 grade (E5-E9)

Minimum would be a Article 15 procedure that carries far less penalties, but still subject to losing rank


Of course, this is assuming the US military (given that they are having a video conf with Obama), but a Lt Col with purple hair is not exactly inspiring confidence and respect (from a military point of view)

[Peelee]

They're recruits, they don't even know how to shower properly. If it was a pattern of behavior they'd be pushed out with a failure to adapt. But you could probably get away with a lot.

They know how to shower, they don't know how to shower in the barracks. They know how to eat, they don't know how to eat in the mess hall. They know how to make their bed, they don't know how to make a quarter bounce off it. There's knowing things, and then there's knowing things the way they do it in the military. "Don't threaten generals when you're in the military" kind of falls in the former. I'm pretty sure that a recruit storming in to a meeting and threatening a general and lt. colonel isn't going to get a chuckle and "ah, you'll learn."

[AMFV]

She's breaking article 134 paragraph 111 and subject to a summary court martial.

Maximum sentence to include:

• 1 month confinement (E1-E4); or 45 days hard labor without confinement (E1-E4); 2 months restriction (E1-E9) (max combination of restriction/hard labor without confinement is 45 days).
• forfeiture 2/3 pay for one month
• reduction of 1 or more grades (E1-E4); 1 grade (E5-E9)

Minimum would be a Article 15 procedure that carries far less penalties, but still subject to losing rank


Of course, this is assuming the US military (given that they are having a video conf with Obama), but a Lt Col with purple hair is not exactly inspiring confidence and respect (from a military point of view)

They are probably not going to charge a recruit for opening a door. Period. At worst it would he NJP (article 15) but I doubt even that. As a recruit she'd just get the life smoked out of her and might be the Di's "favorite" recruit for the duration.

[Eldan]

She's breaking article 134 paragraph 111 and subject to a summary court martial.

Maximum sentence to include:

• 1 month confinement (E1-E4); or 45 days hard labor without confinement (E1-E4); 2 months restriction (E1-E9) (max combination of restriction/hard labor without confinement is 45 days).
• forfeiture 2/3 pay for one month
• reduction of 1 or more grades (E1-E4); 1 grade (E5-E9)

Minimum would be a Article 15 procedure that carries far less penalties, but still subject to losing rank


Of course, this is assuming the US military (given that they are having a video conf with Obama), but a Lt Col with purple hair is not exactly inspiring confidence and respect (from a military point of view)

She can't help the purple hair, she has a superpower that turned her to metal. It makes her skin gold and her hair purple and it can't be changed.

[AMFV]

They know how to shower, they don't know how to shower in the barracks. They know how to eat, they don't know how to eat in the mess hall. They know how to make their bed, they don't know how to make a quarter bounce off it. There's knowing things, and then there's knowing things the way they do it in the military. "Don't threaten generals when you're in the military" kind of falls in the former. I'm pretty sure that a recruit storming in to a meeting and threatening a general and lt. colonel isn't going to get a chuckle and "ah, you'll learn."

You haven't worked with privates. They do not know how to shower, like not just the way the military asks you, like they don't realize they need to. You have to teach them things so basic you wouldn't even imagine it. It's not just teaching them basic military stuff they don't know basic life stuff half the time. Like don't marry a stripper. Don't buy a car at 35 % interest. You actually have to wash your clothes. I have actually been around recruits and it's mind boggling.

Edit: Hell half the time they don't even charge recruits for directly disobeying orders. They just correct the problem.

[Peelee]

You haven't worked with privates. They do not know how to shower, like not just the way the military asks you, like they don't realize they need to. You have to teach them things so basic you wouldn't even imagine it. It's not just teaching them basic military stuff they don't know basic life stuff half the time. Like don't marry a stripper. Don't buy a car at 35 % interest. You actually have to wash your clothes. I have actually been around recruits and it's mind boggling.

You're not describing privates, you're describing 18-year-olds.

[AMFV]

You're not describing privates, you're describing 18-year-olds.

Well if the 18 year old would learn to wash their privates then they wouldn't have all these problems. But yes there is a reason why the military does not harshly punish recruits. They literally can't expect you to learn anything prior to showing up, and additionally they want you to unlearn everything you've learned previously so that they can teach you the way that they would like to. So unless the recruit in question although since the comic is very non-military I'm not sure how it actually translates has had instruction on this subject previously that's unlikely that she would be penalized in any way that would permanently destroy her career. Now she might have some pretty serious issues with you know being somebody's favorite recruit for a little bit which would really suck

[Traab]

She's breaking article 134 paragraph 111 and subject to a summary court martial.

Maximum sentence to include:

• 1 month confinement (E1-E4); or 45 days hard labor without confinement (E1-E4); 2 months restriction (E1-E9) (max combination of restriction/hard labor without confinement is 45 days).
• forfeiture 2/3 pay for one month
• reduction of 1 or more grades (E1-E4); 1 grade (E5-E9)

Minimum would be a Article 15 procedure that carries far less penalties, but still subject to losing rank


Of course, this is assuming the US military (given that they are having a video conf with Obama), but a Lt Col with purple hair is not exactly inspiring confidence and respect (from a military point of view)

The actual situation is different in the comic, as this is a strange mix of military, special forces, and police. The people involved have super powers and as its not pure military, some standards are relaxed. But yes, as was said, she literally cant dye her hair a regular color due to her powers. She is so damage resistant it all just washes off, so she stays gold colored and purple haired. There is a man who is flat out invulnerable. To everything. Yes even that. He has a classic mullet because he cant cut his hair (invulnerable) So standards of appearance are relaxed somewhat. You still cant be a slob, but dont expect many buzzcuts. I was just curious as to what the reaction would be irl in that situation in the military.

[AMFV]

The actual situation is different in the comic, as this is a strange mix of military, special forces, and police. The people involved have super powers and as its not pure military, some standards are relaxed. But yes, as was said, she literally cant dye her hair a regular color due to her powers. She is so damage resistant it all just washes off, so she stays gold colored and purple haired. There is a man who is flat out invulnerable. To everything. Yes even that. He has a classic mullet because he cant cut his hair (invulnerable) So standards of appearance are relaxed somewhat. You still cant be a slob, but dont expect many buzzcuts. I was just curious as to what the reaction would be irl in that situation in the military.

Well SF often gets a lot of lee-way in terms of appearance related regulations. I think that most likely the chick who burst in would be physically disciplined until she decided not to burst into places any more. Or until they got tired on account of her being so hard-headed and stubborn. I don't think for something like that you'd be likely to see Article 15 proceedings, though it isn't impossible (depending on command and what-not, and what the President actually said afterwards.)

[Traab]

Well SF often gets a lot of lee-way in terms of appearance related regulations. I think that most likely the chick who burst in would be physically disciplined until she decided not to burst into places any more. Or until they got tired on account of her being so hard-headed and stubborn. I don't think for something like that you'd be likely to see Article 15 proceedings, though it isn't impossible (depending on command and what-not, and what the President actually said afterwards.)

In her case she just burned goodwill as she was directly responsible for stopping a bad guy who was killing madam purple hair and I think the meeting was a general debriefing for the various heads of state on what took place. So its doubtful the president would have asked them to step TOO hard on her.

[Maelstrom]

I'll have to check the comic out...

[Douglas]

Even aside from the factor of her having rare and valuable superpowers, there's a mitigating factor I haven't seen mentioned yet here that I'm not sure has any real world precedent: she's on duty only part time, with an individualized contract that specifically puts certain time periods in her civilian schedule off limits for her military/police duties, and she's complaining (with at least arguable legitimacy, I think) that her superiors have violated the terms of that contract. Specifically, she's complaining that right now is included in the time periods prohibited by the contract, yet she's been called into the base anyway.

If her complaint is accurate, then she cannot be on duty at the time of this incident, so I'm not sure the military rules that would normally be relevant would actually apply. I'm sure she'd still be liable for something even considered as a civilian, but the punishment might be less harsh.

[Tvtyrant]

I think there is a formal way to lodge complaints; walking into a meeting to yell at people is not that. if she is a superpowered individual she might be too important to fire or really punish, in which case I imagine they need to get her a handler like celebrities and politicians have. Someone whose job is to keep her out of trouble and know what leverage needs to be used (free comic books! Extra days off! etc.)

Also an agent for that matter. When they want her there for something they need to be talking to someone whose job it is to represent her and won't be insulted by requests. "No she won't be showing up unless this is an emergency" as opposed to "why did I have to come in??"

[Keltest]

I think the biggest mitigating factor is that she was literally recruited, like, a week ago by that point, and that she has not had time to learn all the protocols and permissions because of that. Also, the fact the door wasn't locked would rather strongly communicate that nothing exceedingly private or important was going on.

[Peelee]

Even aside from the factor of her having rare and valuable superpowers, there's a mitigating factor I haven't seen mentioned yet here that I'm not sure has any real world precedent: she's on duty only part time, with an individualized contract that specifically puts certain time periods in her civilian schedule off limits for her military/police duties, and she's complaining (with at least arguable legitimacy, I think) that her superiors have violated the terms of that contract. Specifically, she's complaining that right now is included in the time periods prohibited by the contract, yet she's been called into the base anyway.

If her complaint is accurate, then she cannot be on duty at the time of this incident, so I'm not sure the military rules that would normally be relevant would actually apply. I'm sure she'd still be liable for something even considered as a civilian, but the punishment might be less harsh.

You don't argue the ticket with the cop in the side of the road, you argue with the judge on the court date.

Also, i would imagine a civilian going into a secure area to hassle high-ranking brass would be more harshly punished, since you're likely breaking even more laws. Probably.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Actually, she signed up the day before. She was supposed to report in the morning for paperwork (W-4, I-9, etc) and orientation, didn't bother charging her phone so she's out of contact when on call, wandered around at random, spent a lot of time talking to reporters and tried to sandbag her business partner on skipping out on their busiest day without giving him a chance to get lunch. Oh, and then wandered about until she found her car once she was told to report in immediately. Her defense is that she made a verbal agreement that she'd get a half day off on new comic book day once she was active duty (after boot camp). And as any lawyer will tell you, a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Then, instead of listening to anyone when they tried to tell her to report to the OOD, she stormed in, stomped to have a convo with the team sex demon, then resumed storming in to restricted territory.

Since her powers come from exterior items, she really should've been denied use of them until she learned to grow up and not act like a tantrum throwing five year old. Sydney's smart, I'm sure she'd figure it out by the weekend.

[Keltest]

Actually, she signed up the day before. She was supposed to report in the morning for paperwork (W-4, I-9, etc) and orientation, didn't bother charging her phone so she's out of contact when on call, wandered around at random, spent a lot of time talking to reporters and tried to sandbag her business partner on skipping out on their busiest day without giving him a chance to get lunch. Oh, and then wandered about until she found her car once she was told to report in immediately. Her defense is that she made a verbal agreement that she'd get a half day off on new comic book day once she was active duty (after boot camp). And as any lawyer will tell you, a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Then, instead of listening to anyone when they tried to tell her to report to the OOD, she stormed in, stomped to have a convo with the team sex demon, then resumed storming in to restricted territory.

Since her powers come from exterior items, she really should've been denied use of them until she learned to grow up and not act like a tantrum throwing five year old. Sydney's smart, I'm sure she'd figure it out by the weekend.

Sydney at least claims to have an actual contract with an actual signature on it at that point.

[Peelee]

And as any lawyer will tell you, a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on.

You'd be surprised how often they're enforceable.