The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #361
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiel View Post
    To my knowledge there's nothing that distinguishes the results you get from Knowledge. If you make a Knowledge check about a creature with a template, you get the info about the creature + the template. Knowledge checks scale with the CR of the individual, so properly IDing a higher level humanoid is harder.

    I've always taken it to be like in certain heroic fantasy things where you've got that one guy that picks the otherwise normal looking guy out as being the supreme badass. Like in Rurouni Kenshin, where the mob boss calls down all of his men and apologizes to Kenshin, even though Kenshin doesn't really do much of anything...because to Mob boss noticed certain signs that Kenshin was in no danger from the entire room of them (in the anime he says he has the eyes of a battousai or something), but in D&D terms the boss made his Knowledge: Local check and understands not to muck with Kenshin.
    I disagree. I don't see why a Knowledge check should be able to provide information like a random villager's favorite food. A template is okay, as it falls into the same category as "race" IMO. It's a physical trait that can be discerned on sight if you know what to look for.

    That scene from Rurouni Kenshin is closer to a Sense Motive check IMHO. Maybe coupled with Kn(Whatever is used to know famous individuals). Keep in mind that while Kenshin was just a pink-haired ronin, Battousai was quite famous.

    To me, a knowledge check isn't about noticing anything... It's about identifying the things you did notice. e.g.: you may know that the particular perfume the Baroness is using is typical of nobles from a certain country... But that information is useless if you don't smell the perfume on her. Similarly, you might be able to identify the accent of the wizard, but that doesn't help you if you don't hear him speaking.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2016-11-19 at 12:33 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #362
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Maybe Paizo will release an FAQ on Knowledge skills to "clarify" how they work!
    Quote Originally Posted by Paizo FAQ
    What do knowledge checks tell you about other creatures?
    Knowledge checks allow you to recall information your character already knows. If you have not fought a particular kind of monster before, then your character cannot know anything about it, and so a knowledge check will not reveal anything. For example, a knowledge check will not reveal that trolls can regenerate unless your character has previously witnessed a troll regenerating.
    A Knowledge check may not be used to discover information that would be useful in fighting the creature being identified.
    There, much clearer!

  3. - Top - End - #363
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    That FAQ is as dumb and antagonistic to players as I've come to expect Paizo FAQs to be. "Hey guys, this skill only lets you learn stuff you already know, because it's impossible to know anything that you haven't personally witnessed in the past and also because we hate players having fun. Now give me your money!"

    Seriously... Did Paizo put retarded chimps in charge of thir FAQs? I want to believe their devs are intelligent men with empathy for their players... But their FAQs and erratas make that quite difficult...
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2016-11-20 at 12:09 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #364
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Pretty sure Ben was joking, I've never seen that FAQ before, and a quick search didn't find it on Paizo's FAQ list either.
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  5. - Top - End - #365
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Yeah it's fake. But the fact people can't tell says a lot about their FAQ quality.

  6. - Top - End - #366
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tels View Post
    Pretty sure Ben was joking, I've never seen that FAQ before, and a quick search didn't find it on Paizo's FAQ list either.
    With Paizo, it's difficult to tell. Their horrible FAQs and the scam they call errata are why I stopped supporting Pathfinder.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2016-11-20 at 12:12 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #367
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Sad part about pathfinder is that its the only system i have full control over currently, and even then theres a lot of "quality of life" changes i do on the fly as i DM or play it.

    I did consider 5th Edition, but i am even less willing to support Wizards of the coast than Paizo.
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  8. - Top - End - #368
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Being a huge fan of necromancers, I'd like to see the dread necromancer re-work you did, Ash, if that's possible!

    Also, I just upgraded to Firefox 64 bit last week. Some apps or add ons don't work on it yet, but then again I don't use them so I haven't missed anything. Just google "firefox 64 bit" to get the link.

  9. - Top - End - #369
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    With Paizo, it's difficult to tell. Their horrible FAQs and the scam they call errata are why I stopped supporting Pathfinder.

    I love how you don't waste any opportunity of stating your despise of Paizo FAQs.

  10. - Top - End - #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    I disagree. I don't see why a Knowledge check should be able to provide information like a random villager's favorite food. A template is okay, as it falls into the same category as "race" IMO. It's a physical trait that can be discerned on sight if you know what to look for.
    It's worth noting that I never meant to imply personal details. I mean things like weaknesses and strengths. I don't suppose anyone would complain if they didn't know what the favorite food of a particular wyvern was, but I do think it'd be fair to give information if the wyvern was an advanced wyvern with more HD, or had taken levels in sorcerer, or whatever.

    That scene from Rurouni Kenshin is closer to a Sense Motive check IMHO. Maybe coupled with Kn(Whatever is used to know famous individuals). Keep in mind that while Kenshin was just a pink-haired ronin, Battousai was quite famous.
    True but nobody knew what the battousai looked like. Which is why everyone and their neighbor was claiming to be the battousai, and why lots of people didn't believe Kenshin, cute little bishi that he was, could be the battousai. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryzbyn
    Being a huge fan of necromancers, I'd like to see the dread necromancer re-work you did, Ash, if that's possible!
    Sure, let me ask my friend if she wouldn't mind. She's the one that asked me to help with it, but I'm 99.9% sure she'll say yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicos
    I love how you don't waste any opportunity of stating your despise of Paizo FAQs.
    Some things are just true enough to bear repeating.

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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicos View Post
    I love how you don't waste any opportunity of stating your despise of Paizo FAQs.
    They deserve all my scorn and more!
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    They deserve all my scorn and more!
    And yet you play the system... ish... or a variant of it.
    Wait a minute... maybe thats why you have such scorn for it in the first place? Because you are stuck playing a system with incompetent developers?!

    Guys! I finally figured out why Lemmy hates Paizo, its because o- *Sorry your call have been disconnected*
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  13. - Top - End - #373
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Happy Thanksgiving!

    Also, for Kryzbyn;
    Rai said that I could share the necromancer we were revising so here's a link to the still unfinished necromancer (I hadn't had much time to work on it but it's nearly finished). Necromancer Redux.

    Here's a sample character: Jin Maslin. She's a gishy necromancer for a game where animating undead is heavily frowned upon, so rather than animating a bunch of undead she mostly fights while dying. She was built according to the campaigns creation standards (so 25pb, 1.5 base HP at 1st level), though I'd personally have preferred to make her on 15pb.

  14. - Top - End - #374
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoknightZero View Post
    And yet you play the system... ish... or a variant of it.
    Wait a minute... maybe thats why you have such scorn for it in the first place? Because you are stuck playing a system with incompetent developers?!
    Pathfinder has a very solid foundation and is a really good game... As long a you ignore 99% of Paizo's FAQs and erratas. That's why I play the game. But I could no longer ignore or forgive the dishonest and unethical errata policy they have in place. Thats why I stopped giving money to Paizo. Also, as it turns out, their moderators are quite unprofessional (and at least one of them is a bigot).

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoknightZero View Post
    Guys! I finally figured out why Lemmy hates Paizo, its because o- *Sorry your call have been disconnected*
    I don't hate Paizo. I just despise their FAQ/errata policy and their moderation policies.
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  15. - Top - End - #375
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Anyway... Turns out I haven't asked Ashiel a question in quite a while....

    So... Ash! Do you have any pets (IIRC, your family has a farm... So I want to specify "Named animals whose main function is companionship/entertainment, rather than production of goods or services")?

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  16. - Top - End - #376
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Anyway... Turns out I haven't asked Ashiel a question in quite a while....

    So... Ash! Do you have any pets (IIRC, your family has a farm... So I want to specify "Named animals whose main function is companionship/entertainment, rather than production of goods or services")?

    Well our extended family has a farm (aunt's family). We just helped out occasionally when they had some sort of emergency.

    As for pets, yeah sort of. I've got a cat named Dee who I got after his mom was killed before he had his eyes open (IIRC, I think she was hit by a car or something). The owners of that cat didn't know what to do, but we had raised a squirrel from a similar situation before, so they gave the kitten to us and I bottle fed him. He's now this big bushy kitty that's just to sweetest and most awesome kitty.

    My brother's girlfriend also recently moved in with us about a month or so ago and she brought her family cats with her (her family had to move and the place they were moving didn't allow pets, so she's living with us with the cats). There's like two of them. Then my sister has two other small cats that she brought up here, and then there's an old cat we have named Jojo.

    So I'd say I've got 1 pet. We've collectively got something like 6 cats. My sister also has a pair of chihuahuas (one was rescued from a shelter after being abused), and we have our old yard dog Roland (who's name is a pun on Rollin', 'cause he was a pudgy puppy and when he took off running he would often get ahead of himself and end up rolling along like a ball).

  17. - Top - End - #377
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Always liked Roland as a dogs name. Though that's pretty amusing too.

    I've a fluffy cat named Sushi. Not me who named em. Course his original name from the shelter was Powderpuff. He looks a lot like this. http://ragdollkittenscats.com/portal...004-15-09a.jpg

    Also I really like that necromancer castery deal. Partly cus grafts, partly cus undead enhancements. Always had a fondness for the ideas of both, but I rarely see grafts done in a way that's satisfactory. Always seem to be along the TURNS YOU EVVVVIIIIIL lines. Which is really... Confusing. Dnd sends weird messages about surgery.

  18. - Top - End - #378
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilrax View Post
    Always liked Roland as a dogs name. Though that's pretty amusing too.

    I've a fluffy cat named Sushi. Not me who named em. Course his original name from the shelter was Powderpuff. He looks a lot like this. http://ragdollkittenscats.com/portal...004-15-09a.jpg

    Also I really like that necromancer castery deal. Partly cus grafts, partly cus undead enhancements. Always had a fondness for the ideas of both, but I rarely see grafts done in a way that's satisfactory. Always seem to be along the TURNS YOU EVVVVIIIIIL lines. Which is really... Confusing. Dnd sends weird messages about surgery.
    But remember, it's not Evil if a special snowflake Paizo NPC does it.
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  19. - Top - End - #379
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Klara Meison View Post
    But remember, it's not Evil if a special snowflake Paizo NPC does it.
    Maybe that NPC cast Protection From Evil 5 times...
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  20. - Top - End - #380
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    In fairness, some don't turn you evil. Or... Neutral but murderous...? Some just require you to be evil to begin with. Or drive you unaware. It's supposed to be a permanent wisdom penalty of -2 per graft from the Monstrous Graft alchemy thing to represent loss of sense of self, which makes me wonder, does that mean the classes that get ghost limbs have gotten a Gain of Self? What?

  21. - Top - End - #381
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Pathfinder has a very solid foundation and is a really good game... As long a you ignore 99% of Paizo's FAQs and erratas. That's why I play the game. But I could no longer ignore or forgive the dishonest and unethical errata policy they have in place. Thats why I stopped giving money to Paizo. Also, as it turns out, their moderators are quite unprofessional (and at least one of them is a bigot).

    I don't hate Paizo. I just despise their FAQ/errata policy and their moderation policies.
    I know i know, just ran a hyperbole on ya to make it funny... or attempt to make it funny to be exact.

    But i agree with you, Paizos FAQ and Errata is just plain stupid and...worthless, they are supposed to answer questions not make them, nor ruin previous material. Thats the issue i have with d20pfsrd at times is that they mod the rules to the FAQ/Errata a little too soon (though most of them have the old rules lined out, in case)

    And the only money i have given to Paizo is the Core book, Blood of angels and Unchained. Because my first character was a aasimar and unchained looked like a redemption to their flawed classes. (Which it was for rogue at least, the others.... meh? )
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  22. - Top - End - #382
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    A bit off topic but here's a link to the document that's going to form the core of the D20 Legends classes. The old document (in its very dirty existence) was thrown together rather haphazardly so that my brother and friends could play in a super early-version of D20 Legends, while this is document is a start on what will hopefully be the more official class document so a proper alpha can be put together in the near future. I'll be building the "core four" classes: warrior, champion, rogue, and mage. It's clearly far from complete but the warrior is far enough along to serve as a proof of concept for the mechanics (some things like number of techniques and stuff are subject to tweaking, more abilities to be added, etc) but it's enough to look at the mechanics.

    The Warrior, (intended as a replacement for the Fighter) is intended to strike a balance between having a sort of infinite resource so they can go "all day" as it were, while still being able to pace themselves and react to change and the shifting environment of D&D-style combat and adventuring. To do this, the warrior uses a cooldown mechanic (which might feel somewhat familiar to anyone familiar with the 3.5 Binder and their 1/5 round abilities, or it might feel a bit more like cooldowns in video games which is also fine ). This means the warrior gets to play a little mini-game where certain actions or combinations can chain together to get your abilities to become available again faster, while you use more traditional actions (such as normal attacks and such) between abilities.

    The Rogue, will be heavily centered around ruining people with precision damage, inflicting status ailments, assassination, stealthing a lot, and stuff like that. The rogue doesn't really have a resource mechanic so much as it has a conditional mechanic (their cunning strike gets stronger when doing things like flanking and can let them inflict status ailments & stuff).

    The Champion, (intended as a replacement for Cleric/Paladin) will use a Divine Power resource to fuel abilities like lay on hands, smite, and channel energy, and other uses for this sort of resource.

    The Mage, will (probably) be centered around magic schools (and possibly familiars). The loose idea I have for their mechanics at the moment will be things like chaining certain spells together, allowing you to specialize into certain themes (such as elemental magic, summoning, illusions, etc).

    After these "core four" have been put together and can be fiddled around with a bit, I intend to add the following as well: Alchemist (uses "concoctions" to create mutagens, bottled plant monsters, and bombs), Bard (buffmeister 9001), Barbarian (rage powers class), Ranger (animal companion class), and Sorcerer (bloodline class).

  23. - Top - End - #383
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Here's a link to the d20 legends forum where you can see a sample of the metagame for the Warrior class that's currently in production.
    Last edited by Ashiel; 2016-11-25 at 01:30 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #384
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    Apparently I haven't asked a question for quite a while. Ashiel, do you two-box or one-box on the newcomb's problem?

    For those unfamiliar,
    Spoiler: Newcomb's problem
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    A superintelligence from another galaxy, whom we shall call Omega, comes to Earth and sets about playing a strange little game. In this game, Omega selects a human being, sets down two boxes in front of them, and flies away.

    Box A is transparent and contains a thousand dollars.
    Box B is opaque, and contains either a million dollars, or nothing.

    You can take both boxes, or take only box B.

    And the twist is that Omega has put a million dollars in box B iff Omega has predicted that you will take only box B.

    Omega has been correct on each of 100 observed occasions so far - everyone who took both boxes has found box B empty and received only a thousand dollars; everyone who took only box B has found B containing a million dollars. (We assume that box A vanishes in a puff of smoke if you take only box B; no one else can take box A afterward.)

    Before you make your choice, Omega has flown off and moved on to its next game. Box B is already empty or already full.

    Omega drops two boxes on the ground in front of you and flies off.

    Do you take both boxes, or only box B?
    Chief Librarian and Chronicler of Ashiel

  25. - Top - End - #385
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Klara Meison View Post
    Apparently I haven't asked a question for quite a while. Ashiel, do you two-box or one-box on the newcomb's problem?

    For those unfamiliar,
    Spoiler: Newcomb's problem
    Show
    A superintelligence from another galaxy, whom we shall call Omega, comes to Earth and sets about playing a strange little game. In this game, Omega selects a human being, sets down two boxes in front of them, and flies away.

    Box A is transparent and contains a thousand dollars.
    Box B is opaque, and contains either a million dollars, or nothing.

    You can take both boxes, or take only box B.

    And the twist is that Omega has put a million dollars in box B iff Omega has predicted that you will take only box B.

    Omega has been correct on each of 100 observed occasions so far - everyone who took both boxes has found box B empty and received only a thousand dollars; everyone who took only box B has found B containing a million dollars. (We assume that box A vanishes in a puff of smoke if you take only box B; no one else can take box A afterward.)

    Before you make your choice, Omega has flown off and moved on to its next game. Box B is already empty or already full.

    Omega drops two boxes on the ground in front of you and flies off.

    Do you take both boxes, or only box B?
    I'd take only box B, and I'll explain why.

    The simple fact is that risking the 1,000 to achieve 1,000 times as much, with the data showing a strong track record for success is the better option. Even if the endeavor fails, losing a profit of $1,000 is better than losing a profit of $1,000,000. As a general rule of thumb, if you have a 50% or greater chance of more than doubling your money, that's probably the better route (for the record, this is why the lottery is not a good idea to make a similar call on, since those games are designed to have odds too low to be a good bet).

    The only exception to this would be if there was some sort of dire importance that needed immediate attention that $1,000 would solve that $1,000 would not, such as someone's life being on the line (such as if a loved one would die if I couldn't immediately pay $1,000 for a particular medical treatment or something), in which case I'd go with the sure thing merely because I'd like to maximize my odds of ensuring their safety; with the exception that I would attempt the $1,000,000 if the loved one insisted (but would do so with some concern).

  26. - Top - End - #386
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Klara Meison View Post
    Apparently I haven't asked a question for quite a while. Ashiel, do you two-box or one-box on the newcomb's problem?

    For those unfamiliar,
    Spoiler: Newcomb's problem
    Show
    A superintelligence from another galaxy, whom we shall call Omega, comes to Earth and sets about playing a strange little game. In this game, Omega selects a human being, sets down two boxes in front of them, and flies away.

    Box A is transparent and contains a thousand dollars.
    Box B is opaque, and contains either a million dollars, or nothing.

    You can take both boxes, or take only box B.

    And the twist is that Omega has put a million dollars in box B iff Omega has predicted that you will take only box B.

    Omega has been correct on each of 100 observed occasions so far - everyone who took both boxes has found box B empty and received only a thousand dollars; everyone who took only box B has found B containing a million dollars. (We assume that box A vanishes in a puff of smoke if you take only box B; no one else can take box A afterward.)

    Before you make your choice, Omega has flown off and moved on to its next game. Box B is already empty or already full.

    Omega drops two boxes on the ground in front of you and flies off.

    Do you take both boxes, or only box B?
    I'd take only box B simply because while getting a grand is nice, it's hardly an incredible amount of money. If I miss the opportunity to get it, I'd be disappointed but shrug and move on... OTOH, If I miss the opportunity to make a million bucks, I'd kick my self in the ass every morning!

    Now... if the question was 100 grand vs 10 million, I'd probably go with the safe route and pick 100 grand. It's not 1 million, but it's still a lot of money!

    Doesn't seem like much of a problem for me, honestly... I think it'd be more interesting it it were, say... 10 grand x 100 grand.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2016-11-26 at 10:56 AM. Reason: typos... -.-'
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  27. - Top - End - #387
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    I'd take only box B simply because while getting a grand is nice, it's hardly an incredible amount of money. If I miss the opportunity to get it, I'd be disappointed but shrug and move on... OTOH, If I miss the opportunity to make a million bucks, I'd kick my self in the ass every morning!

    Now... if the question was 100 grand vs 10 million, I'd probably go with the safe route and pick 100 grand. Ir's not 1 million, but it's a lot of money!
    Yeah, pretty much this. Lemmy put it more succinctly than I did.

    EDIT: Also, Lemmy! You like martial bros. What's your thoughts on the previewed mechanics for the D20 Legends Fighter Replacement? It's still a WIP but I think there's enough there to get a feel for the resource management and stuff.

    For anyone else interested, this link (and previous links) have been updated 'cause google drive is making it really easy to just upload newer versions without changing anything else. As usual, the revision# is located in the upper right corner of the document.
    Last edited by Ashiel; 2016-11-26 at 10:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiel View Post
    EDIT: Also, Lemmy! You like martial bros. What's your thoughts on the previewed mechanics for the D20 Legends Fighter Replacement? It's still a WIP but I think there's enough there to get a feel for the resource management and stuff.
    I HATE IT AND I HOPE IT BURNS IN NUCLEAR FIRE!!!!

    Nah, I kid...

    I'm not home right now, so I can't read it (well... I can, but it's a lot of text to read in my phone's tiny screen). I did send it to myself so that I can share my thoughts once I get home.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2016-11-26 at 11:06 AM.
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    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    I think it's a sign of how desperate I am to have a game that I've not yet dropped this game but I just had this in an ooc post from the gm.

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    Show
    "now I dun want to hate on you or anything for enjoying yourself with the system Zilrax, but you propably want to ditch the powergaming and focus on creative sollutions a bit more in the long run, because.. thats what'll earn ya the big wins in my games. As hinted earlier, this first one was a test fight at CR 7, usually those screw folks over if you give them only a minor edge (like the terrain) but if any of you had downed it in two rounds with some powerbuilding mechanic I'd have adjusted the campaign (or the character if necessary) Accordingly. You can't tell these things just looking at stats, playstyles apply too, and you retreating to reasess was the most efficent way of dealing with the situation. But! Remember, its an fun campaign, its not all about problem-sollution thinking.

    In another campaign of mine I'm fond of using a set of demons, the Seven Sins and each of them has one unique ability that is designed to screw with players the more they try to game the system, until they actually stop and plan on their feet to deal with the character they face, which is made somewhat easy by knowing each sins motif going into things. For example, Pride, my second favourite of the lot, the incarnation of flamboyant overconfidence, she automatically rolls 1 higher than the players, winning initative, any struggles, automatically taking the highest AC and save available, etc, and the way to beat her is not come up with a demon banishing spell or brute-forcing it but
    SpoilerShow
    To intentionally fail a saving throw and botch their own fight, after which pride will be compelled to fail even harder, her .. pride making her one up the players even there.

    Or, I have Wrath,
    SpoilerShow
    Who is unbeatable unless you surrender the fight."


    I am perturbed. And trying to decide how to address this.

    For context the cr 7, we're level 7, is a huge earth elemental we are fighting underground. Or were. And I was discussing how to sneak past we'd need flight, but evidently this is power gaming and we need creative solutions to avoiding tremorsense. Whatever that means. Our party is my cleric, a magus with no damage spells, a rakshasa paragon, a two weapon ranger who was captured and an archer ranger who does not have clustered shots. Most of us do next to no damage to it cus dr/- and Earthglide. So I called a retreat and took Dismissal and Ardor's Onslaught instead since we don't have access to mass flying abilities. Which evidently is not creative enough.
    Last edited by Zilrax; 2016-11-27 at 04:07 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #390
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Klara Meison's Avatar

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    Sep 2016

    Default Re: Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilrax View Post
    I think it's a sign of how desperate I am to have a game that I've not yet dropped this game but I just had this in an ooc post from the gm.

    Spoiler
    Show
    "now I dun want to hate on you or anything for enjoying yourself with the system Zilrax, but you propably want to ditch the powergaming and focus on creative sollutions a bit more in the long run, because.. thats what'll earn ya the big wins in my games. As hinted earlier, this first one was a test fight at CR 7, usually those screw folks over if you give them only a minor edge (like the terrain) but if any of you had downed it in two rounds with some powerbuilding mechanic I'd have adjusted the campaign (or the character if necessary) Accordingly. You can't tell these things just looking at stats, playstyles apply too, and you retreating to reasess was the most efficent way of dealing with the situation. But! Remember, its an fun campaign, its not all about problem-sollution thinking.

    In another campaign of mine I'm fond of using a set of demons, the Seven Sins and each of them has one unique ability that is designed to screw with players the more they try to game the system, until they actually stop and plan on their feet to deal with the character they face, which is made somewhat easy by knowing each sins motif going into things. For example, Pride, my second favourite of the lot, the incarnation of flamboyant overconfidence, she automatically rolls 1 higher than the players, winning initative, any struggles, automatically taking the highest AC and save available, etc, and the way to beat her is not come up with a demon banishing spell or brute-forcing it but
    SpoilerShow
    To intentionally fail a saving throw and botch their own fight, after which pride will be compelled to fail even harder, her .. pride making her one up the players even there.

    Or, I have Wrath,
    SpoilerShow
    Who is unbeatable unless you surrender the fight."


    I am perturbed. And trying to decide how to address this.

    For context the cr 7, we're level 7, is a huge earth elemental we are fighting underground. Or were. And I was discussing how to sneak past we'd need flight, but evidently this is power gaming and we need creative solutions to avoiding tremorsense. Whatever that means. Our party is my cleric, a magus with no damage spells, a rakshasa paragon, a two weapon ranger who was captured and an archer ranger who does not have clustered shots. Most of us do next to no damage to it cus dr/- and Earthglide. So I called a retreat and took Dismissal and Ardor's Onslaught instead since we don't have access to mass flying abilities. Which evidently is not creative enough.
    >To intentionally fail a saving throw and botch their own fight

    >Who is unbeatable unless you surrender the fight.

    Hellooooo unintuitive game design. Only time I've seen that sort of logic working was Undertale, and it's frigging Undertale.
    Chief Librarian and Chronicler of Ashiel

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