Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

[Kryzbyn]

A lot of base abilities should be very easy to fluff. For example, a class feature that let you conjure up weapons & armors would leave their overall description up to the player, so a necromancer who took them might describe them as being made of bone or ectoplasm or something, while another might describe them completely differently, but they'd share similar statistics, with specialization talents further customizing it (so let's say hypothetically we have a mage talent that let you conjure magical arms and armor, you might have a conjurer-focused talent that allows you to make them elemental, while a necromancer-focused one might make the weapon and armor manipulate life energies, while an abjurer-focused talent might focus around anti-magical aspects, etc).

Generally speaking though, I'm trying to keep a lot of the fluff up to the players and GMs building the characters.

Admittedly this is less likely to be a thing and I'll explain why. Rather than making the same attacks with different elemental damage, elemental effects are being written to function differently from each other more universally. For example, fire spells can ignite creatures and apply stacks of a "burning" condition that builds up ongoing damage, while cold spells "Chill" targets or even freeze them in place under the right conditions. Without specializations they can initially seem pretty similar (acid causes ongoing acid damage, fire causes ongoing fire damage for example), but each are intended to go into a more unique specialization (acid will be advanced to cause status ailments like sickened, poisons, and reduce AC; fire will have battlefield control applications such as thick smoke, suffocation, and just generally cause a lot of damage by playing with burning stacks).

Which isn't to say that merged elements aren't a possibility. For example, it would be fairly easy to create some talents that let you twist other elements to become dual-elements, such as applying the acid descriptor and corrosive effects to a Water spell, or making a lightning bolt that ignites people, and so forth. I really would like to make a nice minigame out of elemental effects.


There's actually no functional difference between arcane/divine in D20 Legends. In fact, you build your own spell list and use the same progression across the board (so while a cleric/wizard/sorcerer/druid would have four different spell lists, caster levels, and spells per day schemes, in D20 Legends you'd just have 1 set of spells per day and spells known that advance with you).


Yeah, alignment restrictions on classes just won't be a thing honestly.

For S&Gs, how would you build my class concept above with d20 legends?

[Ashiel]

Thank you very much Ash. I've finally had time to look at this, and it looks really cool.
I'm working on a homebrew class for an "action necro" (i love Eddie Izzard), that is a kind of necro-gish. The idea is he (or she) would be focused on necromantic magic, and use spell combat and spell strike with necromancy spells. He will have a reduced spell list, but most (if not all) of the sorc/wiz necromancy spells. He would have a summon undead ability (similar to summoners, but using the summon undead line of spells instead of summon monster; the spells are in a 3rd party book calls 'Summon Undead', go figure) and some darkness stuff.
Was going to start with it just being an archetype, but it's grown into more of a hybrid class of magus and...summoner, kind of...

For S&Gs, how would you build my class concept above with d20 legends?

Well, while the class construction is still underway, I can say that the vast majority of that would be really easy for the following reasons.

1. The warrior class preview I showed already has options for a magus-like character. One of their stances lets you deliver touch spells through melee attacks (and refunds the spell if you miss).
2. As noted before, you build your own spell list, so you just pick lots of necromancy, darkness, and summoning themed spells.
3. The undead minion thing is the part that's up in the air, but there's a number of ways we could write it to do that, from the traditional animate dead, or a variant of the Animal Companion (which is the Ranger's class feature), or a summoning spell and some class talents (Mage will very likely have necromancy and conjuration talents that could do things like that).
4. And then you'd just choose what sort of progression you wanted (martial, hybrid, or magic). Hybrid, like bard or magus, has a nice mixture of BAB, HP, Skills, and Magic.

So hypothetically you might end up with a character that looks something like this.

Level 4 (Hybrid 4); Classes Warrior, Mage
Str 16, Dex 15, Mind 15
Hp 38; Fort 17, Ref 16, Will 16
AC 18, Touch 12, Flat 16 (+6 armor, +2 dex); ACP -4
BAB +3 (+1d6); CMB +6; CMD 16; Speed land 30 ft.
Feats Spell Focus (Necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Combat Casting (+2 Concentration, cast using a weapon hand)
Melee longsword +6 (1d8+1d6+3, slashing)
Warrior Techniques
Stances - blade magic, phantom rush
Techniques - arcane brand
Boosts - moment of clarity
Spellcasting
Attack Bonus +6 (+8/Necromancy); Concentration +10 (-4 ACP)
(DC 14) 2nd Level, 4/day --darkness, death knell, desecrate, false life, ghoul touch
(DC 12) 1st Level, 5/day -- chill touch, divine favor, inflict wounds, protection from evil, ray of enfeeblement, shield
Class Features
Warrior
Warrior Features (2 stances, 1 technique, 1 boost)
Twin Stances (have 2 stances active at once)
Mage
Mage Features (Familiar: Undead Thrall)

Breakdown: At 4th level we've amassed 3 talents. Two invested into Warrior and one invested into Mage (Necromancer).

Our mode of operations is pretty strait forward. We grabbed twin stances so we can stay in Phantom Rush and Blade Magic stance 24/7. This effectively cuts our armor check penalty in half (allowing us to wear medium armor and maybe even a shield without ruining our plans) and makes our techniques and boosts cool down much faster (both our technique and boost are phantom style so using them has a 4 round cooldown, and every time we cast a spell it reduces by 1 round too).

Blade magic stance allows us to deliver touch spells like chill touch, ghoul touch, and inflict wounds through our weapon and refunds the spell if our attack misses (great for ghoul touch). Moment of Clarity allows us to take-15 on a Concentration check which is super handy if we find ourselves wanting to cast spells while threatened. If we're not threatened, we can casually take-10 on Concentration checks to cast all of our spells (assuming we're not entangled or on fire or something).

The +1d6 damage from BAB applies to any attack using a normal attack roll. This includes spells delivered through touch attacks, so it makes our chill touch, inflict wounds, ray of enfeeblement, and ghoul touch a little better.

The mage's familiar in this case would be a skeleton or zombie minion that possesses things like share spells.

Our feat selection makes our necromancy spells stick better, gives us a bump to our Concentration checks, and allows us to use somatic components with a weapon hand (allowing us the option to dual wield, use a shield, or otherwise hold something in both hands while casting).

[Kryzbyn]

That...is amazing. The "dial a class" feature is what I'm most looking forward to, tbh, and this seals the deal for me.
I don't envision the class having a "perma pet" but just "rounds per level" minions he calls upon each encounter, if he needs battlefield control/flanking, but what you've built is pretty much a shadow knight, which is also a win in my book!
Thanks for taking the time to show me that :)

[Ashiel]

That...is amazing. The "dial a class" feature is what I'm most looking forward to, tbh, and this seals the deal for me.
I don't envision the class having a "perma pet" but just "rounds per level" minions he calls upon each encounter, if he needs battlefield control/flanking, but what you've built is pretty much a shadow knight, which is also a win in my book!
Thanks for taking the time to show me that :)

Not a problem! Glad you enjoyed it!
As to a permanent minion, well the beauty of it is that if that's not for you, spend the talent to pick up a different class or different initial class option. Maybe rather than getting a dedicated familiar, the conjurer might get a summoned minion a few times per day appropriate for his/her level (kind of like the summoner feature).

Haven't decided exactly what we're going to do with summoning spells yet. Due to my trying to normalize the way monsters are built (they're built a lot more like PCs with clearer rules on exactly what is appropriate for what levels), there's been some discussion of setting a budget for spells like animate dead or summon monster where you're allotted up to X CR in minions that you can control at a time, so a summon monster spell that conjured a CR 1 encounter worth of creatures would let you call in either a single CR 1 critter, or a pair of CR 1/2 critters, or a trio of CR 1/3 critters (likely with a limit of 3-5 or something) which would last 10 rounds.

The benefit of this is that you'd have a lot of flexibility with summoning and you wouldn't have to revise the summon monster list when new content came out (nor would you just ignore all the new content). Also with this route, you'd still be capped in effective CR worth of creatures controlled at once, no matter how frequently you tried to cast the spell (so you'd only have a specific number of minions at once, which saves a lot of groups headaches, since vanilla conjurers can just flood ever more critters into a battle every round).

Alternatively I might go with something more akin to the astral construct psionic power where you build a few monsters from a list of options to be your minions. I'd like to try to make the former work before I fallback on this plan though.

[Kryzbyn]

That sounds like a great idea, not that I'm shocked. You seem to have plenty of those :)

I find the astral construct rules a bit clunky, but they do allow you to customize them, and add more options to the base form as you level.

I think I like your other idea more, but this could work.

[Ashiel]

That sounds like a great idea, not that I'm shocked. You seem to have plenty of those :)

I find the astral construct rules a bit clunky, but they do allow you to customize them, and add more options to the base form as you level.

I think I like your other idea more, but this could work.

Yeah I'd like to go with the CR route if it doesn't prove problematic. Incidentally, a similar mechanic would exist for things like *animate dead* and *planar binding*, which would prevent casters from chain-binding a bunch of strong outsiders and overwhelming stuff with them, but with the CR system you could comfortably present those classic tropes where you've got some mage of middling power who's doing stuff like marching an army of weeny skeletons around.

For example, if your standard garden variety skeleton was CR 1/4, it'd be would be 100 XP, right? So if you could control up to a CR 8 encounter worth of undead, you could field any combination between 48 CR 1/4 skeletons and one big CR 8 undead brute. Which might sound like a nightmare logistically but d20 legends has a lot of AoE stuff for both martials and mages so it's not a good idea to field stuff like that against NPCs or PCs of similar levels (they'll just heroically crash through them like Sauron spanking soldiers in the 1st LotR movie), but it's a great plot point if you want to explain why hordes of skeleton mooks are roaming the countryside.

[DracoknightZero]

Hmmm, how would you do a Soulknife + Blackblade Magus in your setup Ash? I was considering putting together a character similar to Raziel from the soulreaver series.

[Ashiel]

Hmmm, how would you do a Soulknife + Blackblade Magus in your setup Ash? I was considering putting together a character similar to Raziel from the soulreaver series.

I would first need to create a class with a feature to conjure up some weaponry that wasn't there. After that, the answer is basically "however you want".

[Klara Meison]

I would first need to create a class with a feature to conjure up some weaponry that wasn't there. After that, the answer is basically "however you want".

That class feature sounds like it should be decently easy to emulate with magical items, no? Some sort of enchancement that allows you to summon a weapon on your person into your hands+some extradimensional storage.

[Zilrax]

Conjuring up things that aren't there is always fun. I was always disappointed that the metal oracle could make metal objects then could nevr give em to anyone or set for much of anything. Or reshape metal.

[Kryzbyn]

RE: Combat Casting
You're merging the feat to give bonus to cast defensive and allow a spell combat-like effect?

But...that makes too much sense.

[DracoknightZero]

Well you should have seen my character in skyrim, i Was a Conjure/Stealth Assassin with illusions to pick up the silent casting.

Combat style: Dual summon blades or summon bow and sneak attack and dual sword combat. Later when i finally got my enchantment and blacksmith skills up ( i.e i cheated because **** wasting 5 hours leveling crafting in a single player game. ) i started using real weapons due to the enchantment effects. But before that i used the gloves and the dagger from the Black Hand to get the 30x sneak attack damage at full stealth.

So yeah, i really enjoy the summoning of weapons either by conjuring them or pulling them from extra dimensional spaces ( see "Night Wizard" ) and similar "weapons from no-where" themes.

[Lemmy]

Hello from the Summer Lands!

I'm now running away from winter like a desperate wildling and visiting my family in Brazil! So... To stay true to the premise of the thread...

Ash, have you ever visited other countries? If not where would you like to go?

[Klara Meison]

If you could set people on fire with your mind, would your life change in any meaningful way?

[Lemmy]

If you could set people on fire with your mind, would your life change in any meaningful way?

What are the range and limitations of that power?

[Zilrax]

If you could set people on fire with your mind, would your life change in any meaningful way?

If it worked on dead people, and depending how intense and long lasting the heat, I might have a new industry in the making?

[TOZ]

Got to admit, it wouldn't change my life at all. Couldn't see myself ever using it.

[DracoknightZero]

If you could set people on fire with your mind, would your life change in any meaningful way?

Nothing, you are hot enough already *wink wink*

[Lemmy]

Got to admit, it wouldn't change my life at all. Couldn't see myself ever using it.

I want to believe I wouldn't fall to the temptation of using it on half the politicians I know... Oh, well... At very least, I'd feel safer when walking in the bad part of town.

[golentan]

My kitteh, grandpa, has been having problems with overgrooming. Of course, that makes him itchy, so he grooms more. So I have taken steps to break the cycle, and... well...

Spoiler: Behold

Show

The Face of Hate

[Zilrax]

I personally am more fond of

Spoiler

Show

[Tels]

I want to believe I wouldn't fall to the temptation of using it on half the politicians I know... Oh, well... At very least, I'd feel safer when walking in the bad part of town.

Oh gosh, I absolutely would. Hell, I'd probably do everything I could to get close to collection of politicians and just pull a Carrie on them. Except, you know, with fire.

[TOZ]

Have I mentioned I love playing my dhampir? (Spoilers for Trouble in Tamran if you're into organized play.)

[Zilrax]

I feel like this is the natural progression of people when they ask about my game experience. Or some of my characters histories. Or when other characters ask a lot of my characters their history.

http://www.poppy-opossum.com/comic/poppy-7-page-6/

[Ashiel]

RE: Combat Casting
You're merging the feat to give bonus to cast defensive and allow a spell combat-like effect?

But...that makes too much sense.

Well, in D20 Legends you always make Concentration checks to cast spells (albeit if you're not in someone's threatened area, you can take-10). Casting defensively increases the DC (rather than being a flat-DC), so the feat is useful to pretty much everyone who wants to cast spells. It even helps if you aren't being threatened since there's lots of other things that increase the DCs for casting spells (most negative conditions such as burning and entangled make it harder to cast). The ability to cast while using a weapon (be it a sword, a staff, or whatever) is thematic and really just needed to be here. :P

Well you should have seen my character in skyrim, i Was a Conjure/Stealth Assassin with illusions to pick up the silent casting.

Combat style: Dual summon blades or summon bow and sneak attack and dual sword combat. Later when i finally got my enchantment and blacksmith skills up ( i.e i cheated because **** wasting 5 hours leveling crafting in a single player game. ) i started using real weapons due to the enchantment effects. But before that i used the gloves and the dagger from the Black Hand to get the 30x sneak attack damage at full stealth.

So yeah, i really enjoy the summoning of weapons either by conjuring them or pulling them from extra dimensional spaces ( see "Night Wizard" ) and similar "weapons from no-where" themes.

Yeah I remember doing the quest where you get tossed into a mine as a prisoner slave, and you're supposed to go through some steps to get a little shiv to fight with during your escape (the shiv has a super dinky damage rating). Of course, I had bound sword so I laughed at that part.

I actually recently re-installed Skyrim and have been playing it a good bit between hanging out with my family and preparing for Christmas stuff (putting up decorations, etc). I've also installed modded skyrim on my brother's computer and laptop, and I'll end up installing it again since I got my brother's girlfriend a computer to play Skyrim on (she's only ever played it on the Xbox). My life is now over...again.

My current dragonborn, after accidentally stirred up a camp full of giants and mammoths. I missed with a spell, it poked a mammoth, chaos ensued. After the fight I called it a night (literally). The battle did level my block skill to a ridiculous degree though, and skinning these mammoths is going to be quite helpful.

I'm currently playing with Perkus Maximus, among many other mods (such as Frostfall, Campfire, Hunterborn, iNeed, etc).

[Ashiel]

Hello from the Summer Lands!

I'm now running away from winter like a desperate wildling and visiting my family in Brazil! So... To stay true to the premise of the thread...

Ash, have you ever visited other countries? If not where would you like to go?

Never been to any other countries, but I'd love to visit lots of places. I'd like to visit Japan for sure, and I've heard Germany is really cool, and probably a few places I can't think of right at the moment.

If you could set people on fire with your mind, would your life change in any meaningful way?

Nope. Though I would be more comfortable being unarmed in some situations.
It's a power I couldn't see myself using unless I was already in a situation where I was going to kill them anyway (such as if I was attacked). I'd prefer if I could selectively burn rather than full on engulfing at the start, since it'd be a lot easier to dissuade someone from hurting someone with a few selective but non life-threatening burns (burns suck, nobody is going to want to stab you if their palms hurt).

[Klara Meison]

My current dragonborn, after accidentally stirred up a camp full of giants and mammoths. I missed with a spell, it poked a mammoth, chaos ensued. After the fight I called it a night (literally). The battle did level my block skill to a ridiculous degree though, and skinning these mammoths is going to be quite helpful.

*GASP* Block skill? Don't you know that only plebeans kill their enemies with their own hands? True murderhobos call fire and brimstone onto their enemies from afar.

[Zilrax]

Blocking is for noobs. Real men prevent death through this skillful maneuver.

https://gfycat.com/CostlySmartHind

[Ashiel]

*GASP* Block skill? Don't you know that only plebeans kill their enemies with their own hands? True murderhobos call fire and brimstone onto their enemies from afar.

I was doing a fair amount of that too, but I'm experimenting with sword & board and spell & board and some other fun stuff. Blocking has this fun minigame where you can perform a "timed block", which is essentially blocking at the moment of impact. Not only does it reduce damage more than normal, it staggers your opponent and causes them to fall down, allowing you to counterattack with ease. It also seems to make them more vulnerable to finishing moves (which are just fun).

I've got a few builds I'd like to try, but can't decide on any particular build. My brother tells me the necromancy path in Conjuration is absolutely amazing, and I kind of wanted to make an auramancer/speechcraft support character. Theoretically, I could combine the two since I'd have lots of undead minions, so grabbing group support auras, group support buffs, and some mooks would allow me to overlord it up.

I also found out that Wintermyst includes an enchantment effect that restores X health to nearby allies every second. It's not a whole lot, but I could potentially 'chant a bunch of my gear to carry the effect and act as a super battery to my legion of the (highly motivated) damned.

[Ashiel]

Blocking is for noobs. Real men prevent death through this skillful maneuver.

https://gfycat.com/CostlySmartHind

This is amazing.