The Godsmoot

[VenomTongue]

So I was re rereading some of OOTS and a few things occurred to me.
1. Shoudnt Red Cloak get vote in the Godsmoot?
2. Is it me or don't Xykon and Red Cloak have completely contrary interests from Hel and vampire-durkon?
3. Is there a way for our heroes to turn those groups against each other?

[Cazero]

1. No. Priest don't get votes. Gods do. And the Dark One is not a member of the Northern Pantheon. In fact, he's not a member of any Pantheon, so he doesn't get to vote either way.
2. Hel and Greg are actively working on what is effectively Redcloak's backup plan. But yes, they totally are acting against the interest of Xykon. Not that they care.
3. By the time someone managed to convince Xykon that he is at risk of annihiliation from divine intervention to destroy the whole world, it would be too late.

[E-102 Hanako]

It's been implied that The Dark One doesn't get invited to the Godsmoot for the same reasons Hel isn't usually able to vote on anything - no high level priests of either deity survive long enough to be able to represent them in Godsmoots. Another thing to note is that if Xykon and Redcloak were to go to the Godsmoot, it would alarm everyone; even most Neutral entities don't want to bother with Xykon (as seen by the Oracle having deliberately closed up shop when the lich went to go there). It's also implied Redcloak has no knowledge of the Godsmoot or, even if he did, that the Godsmoot would be relocated elsewhere; during the Empire of Blood arc, Xykon and Redcloak stayed in Azure City until the risk of the former dying because of V drove them to assemble and finish the job they were supposed to finish, which was find and subdue a Gate so the Snarl could be controlled.

It would be nice to see Xykon and Roy fight each other again, but the paths each take have an intersection that only just started because Advanced Durkon 2nd Edition hijacked the vote to deal with the Snarl - something Xykon and Redcloak want to control - and is luring the party towards the area with Kraagor's Tomb in it.

[VenomTongue]

There could be a more practical reason Red Cloak didn't know about the Godsmoot, the Sequester spell Xykon spell cut them off from outside intel. I am just saying V casts a sending to Xykon tells him that a crazy vampire is trying to end the world and can be found at such and such location- problem solved. Well one problem solved.
Hell just send directions to the Godsmoot. The current high priest dies, the collected clerics kill the interloper, world saved.

One sending spell is all it takes.

[dtilque]

There could be a more practical reason Red Cloak didn't know about the Godsmoot, the Sequester spell Xykon spell cut them off from outside intel. I am just saying V casts a sending to Xykon tells him that a crazy vampire is trying to end the world and can be found at such and such location- problem solved. Well one problem solved.
Hell just send directions to the Godsmoot. The current high priest dies, the collected clerics kill the interloper, world saved.

One sending spell is all it takes.

And you just pointed out that the Sequester spell would likely prevent that Sending from going through.

At any rate, I'd be really surprised if the Order wants X and RC to involve themselves in the conflict with Durkula. There'd be way too may Dwarven deaths from collateral damage during any battle. There'll probably be too many from the Order vs Team Vampire battle, but even more with more powerful entities who don't care whether they cause them or not.

[Kish]

"Cloister." "Redcloak." "Hel."

Why would either Xykon or Redcloak drop what they're doing to come destroy Greg on the 25-words-or-less say-so of--let's say Haley? (Elan's an idiot, Vaarsuvius would need more charges on the sending wand than Nale needed scrolls, Use Magic Device is cross-class for Roy and Belkar, and Durkon isn't there.)

[Keltest]

"Cloister." "Redcloak." "Hel."

Why would either Xykon or Redcloak drop what they're doing to come destroy Greg on the 25-words-or-less say-so of--let's say Haley? (Elan's an idiot, Vaarsuvius would need more charges on the sending wand than Nale needed scrolls, Use Magic Device is cross-class for Roy and Belkar, and Durkon isn't there.)

"He said you were a wuss and that fleshless undead aren't even fit to serve as Hel's butlers."

And that's still 8 more words to identify Greg to them.

[hroþila]

It's been implied that The Dark One doesn't get invited to the Godsmoot for the same reasons Hel isn't usually able to vote on anything - no high level priests of either deity survive long enough to be able to represent them in Godsmoots

I don't think this is true. Redcloak is certainly high enough level to represent the Dark One if he was allowed to, and I'd say it's likely that previous wearers of the Crimson Mantle were too if, as I think, they were at least mid-level. By contrast, if memory serves, Hel or Durkon or whoever it was complained about Hel's priests being killed off as final bosses for low-level adventurers, so there's enough of a level gap there between Hel's priests and the Dark One's to believe being mid-level would be enough to relay a vote at a Godsmoot.

The reason why the Dark One doesn't get invited is that he doesn't seem to be a member of any pantheon.

[NerdyKris]

The 2016 calendar actually has a line about it:

Spoiler:

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Participating in it only gives it legitimacy. (paraphrased)

But there would be no reason for Red Cloak to go. The Dark One is a demi god, and as stated in the comic demigods don't normally show up for the moot, since the vote always goes the same way. This one was the largest number they'd ever seen. In all likelyhood, the Dark One didn't care about whatever plan Hel was forming, and she wouldn't know about his. And that's assuming he's even a demigod of the Northern Pantheon. In SOD we see:

Spoiler

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they appear to be in the Southern Lands to start, since the Sapphire Guard are holding a fort.

So he might be a demigod of a completely different pantheon and really would have no reason to show up.

[Morquard]

For all we know he might not even be part of any pantheon.

[Kish]

I'm sorry, where does "the Dark One is a demigod" come from?

He seems to be a pantheon of one as the sole member of the pantheon of goblin gods. That indicates that giving him no vote at all, rather than him voting with one of the creator pantheons like the elven gods vote with the western pantheon, is presumably entirely prejudice toward him--but what else is new?

[Rift_Wolf]

In amongst the well travelled ground of 'Redcloak at the Godsmoot' (ah, I remember those halcyon threads well...), a pertinent question is raised.
Has Xykon cast Cloister on Kraagors Tomb?
I don't think he has.

[Nith]

My guess, which is just based on headcanon, is that for new gods to get a vote they need to strike some kind of agreement with a pre-existing pantheon. The Elven Gods have done this with the Western pantheon, but The Dark One has not and therefore he cannot take part.

[dtilque]

In amongst the well travelled ground of 'Redcloak at the Godsmoot' (ah, I remember those halcyon threads well...), a pertinent question is raised.
Has Xykon cast Cloister on Kraagors Tomb?
I don't think he has.

Cloister affects everyone who is within the area it's cast on and stays effective for 1 week/caster level. Xykon is at least 21st level and really more like 24th or 25th. So he'll cast it roughly once every half year. He cast it when Azure City was first taken, and apparently half a year after that. So if X and RC were there for a full year or even just under a year (which indeed they were), he probably cast it a third time, but obviously some time after Haley left that city (she's received Sendings, so she's not under its effects anymore). So most likely they are still under its effects, although we can't be certain of that.

As for Kraagor's tomb, no it hasn't been cast on that. Haley received a Sending from one of the paladins there, and it wouldn't go through if Cloister was working there.

[DaggerPen]

Cloister affects everyone who is within the area it's cast on and stays effective for 1 week/caster level. Xykon is at least 21st level and really more like 24th or 25th. So he'll cast it roughly once every half year. He cast it when Azure City was first taken, and apparently half a year after that. So if X and RC were there for a full year or even just under a year (which indeed they were), he probably cast it a third time, but obviously some time after Haley left that city (she's received Sendings, so she's not under its effects anymore). So most likely they are still under its effects, although we can't be certain of that.

He's been recasting every few weeks, actually.

As for Kraagor's tomb, no it hasn't been cast on that. Haley received a Sending from one of the paladins there, and it wouldn't go through if Cloister was working there.

Can't communications go out of Cloister just fine, just not in?

[Grey Watcher]

My understanding was that there are, ultimately, only 3 votes: Northern Pantheon, Western Pantheon, and Southern Pantheon. All the stuff where Odin or Hel or whoever gets votes is, technically, just an internal Northern procedure to determine what the Northern pantheon's vote is going to be. For all we know, in the South, the Godsmoot consisted of Dragon saying "We're voting no" and nobody else got any say at all.

The Elven Gods, despite their apotheosis, don't get a vote. They seem to have an arrangement with the the Western Pantheon to participate in their Godsmoots and such so they get some form of representation in matter where, technically, only the pantheons involved in creating the world get a vote. Apparently, none of the pantheons has offered such an opportunity to the Dark One.

[dtilque]

He's been recasting every few weeks, actually.

This is where the problem with Haley/Belkar's screwed up timeline gets in the way. Based on what they did after leaving Azure City/Gobbotopia, it should only be a couple-three months since they left. So they should still be under the Cloister or at least been under its effects while in the pyramid. Yet Haley received a Sending while they were in the pyramid. One solution is that Tsukiko was wrong about the frequency of its casting.

Can't communications go out of Cloister just fine, just not in?

Oh right, forgot about that. Never mind about that part

[Kish]

For all we know, in the South, the Godsmoot consisted of Dragon saying "We're voting no" and nobody else got any say at all.

I think the depiction of twelve priests channeling in the seventh panel makes that unlikely.

[Grey Watcher]

I think the depiction of twelve priests channeling in the seventh panel makes that unlikely.

Eh, I didn't think so either, but my point was that, strictly speaking, all the Godsmoot drama we've been watching is just the Northern pantheon trying to shake out how it will vote as a whole.

Plus, if you want to split hairs, maybe the whole pantheon has to channel at once just to transmit the vote, regardless of how they arrived at it.

[Quebbster]

The Dark One is indeed a Pantheon of one.
The Northern Gods have yellow auras.
The Southern Gods have blue auras.
The Western Gods have red auras.
The Eastern Gods had green auras.
The Dark One has a Purple aura. This is seen when Jirix tells of his post-Death vision.
There's no reason he'd be invited to the Godsmoot.

[hroþila]

The Dark One is indeed a Pantheon of one.
The Northern Gods have yellow auras.
The Southern Gods have blue auras.
The Western Gods have red auras.
The Eastern Gods had green auras.
The Dark One has a Purple aura. This is seen when Jirix tells of his post-Death vision.
There's no reason he'd be invited to the Godsmoot.

What colour is the aura of the Elven Gods - members of the Western Pantheon?

Yeah.

[Alchemist_Fire]

...One sending spell is all it takes.

The OotS is relying on Xykon and Redcloak not being interested in them; the last time they met (in the desert), Redcloak dropped an elemental on them only because Xykon wouldn't let him stay and murder them personally. If the OotS sent a Sending to Xykon, he and Redcloak would show up to murder Lurky Corpsewhiskers as well as the rest of the Order, probably.

[Kantaki]

What colour is the aura of the Elven Gods - members of the Western Pantheon?

Yeah.

Have ever seen any of those guys?
Because otherwise I would assume it's red, like the Pantheon they belong to.
Not that it matters. They got a invite, the DO didn't. They get a vote* and he doesn't.

*Maybe. Sometimes. They counted as demigods, didn't they?

[hroþila]

Have ever seen any of those guys?
Because otherwise I would assume it's red, like the Pantheon they belong to.
Not that it matters. They got a invite, the DO didn't. They get a vote* and he doesn't.

*Maybe. Sometimes. They counted as demigods, didn't they?

That's my point. Not that the Dark One would have been able to cast a vote, or that his being a "pantheon of one", as Redcloak put it, might still allow for his being associated with another pantheon, but simply that the argumentum ad colorem doesn't hold. We haven't seen any Elven God. We don't know whether ascended gods (regardless of whether or not they're demigods) have matching aura colours that they share with the parent pantheon, and thus the Dark One's purple aura doesn't tell us anything about his status.

[Jay R]

1. Absolutely not. Redcloak's entire plan, and the overarching plot of The Order of the Stick, is based on the fact that the three remaining pantheons do not include the Dark One in any god-level activities. If they invited the Dark One's high priest, then the strip is over.

2. Yes. Hel wants the world to end. Xykon and Redcloak do not. You can't get interests that are any more contrary.

: I like the world. Some of my best evilness took place here. I wouldn't mind ruling it, in fact. I'm certainly not about to destroy it unless I get really, REALLY bored.

3. Well, step one is to make sure Xykon doesn't get really, really bored.

[Kantaki]

2. Yes. Hel wants the world to end. Xykon and Redcloak do not. You can't get interests that are any more contrary.

: I like the world. Some of my best evilness took place here. I wouldn't mind ruling it, in fact. I'm certainly not about to destroy it unless I get really, REALLY bored.

Big X doesn't want to end the world. Wrongeye considers it a perfectly valid plan B.

[Kish]

I never got an answer to why someone said the Dark One was a demigod. Now I want an answer to where the idea that the elven gods are demigods comes from, too.

[Kantaki]

I never got an answer to why someone said the Dark One was a demigod. Now I want an answer to where the idea that the elven gods are demigods comes from, too.

I'm not sure if the ascended treehuggers got full deity-status. At least some of the original gods certainly aren't and neither seem to be the dwarven king and giant deities. Who might or might not gotten their status post-mortem.
So it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that the upstarts don't get to be full deities from the beginning.
DO is different because he has his own club. And no one that makes him share.
On the other hand it reduces his chances to vote on stuff drastically.

[137beth]

What colour is the aura of the Elven Gods - members of the Western Pantheon?

Yeah.

The elven gods are not members of the Western Pantheon. They just struck a deal with the Western Pantheon to get a say in how the West votes. They weren't part of any of the three pantheons that built world 2.0.

[hroþila]

The elven gods are not members of the Western Pantheon. They just struck a deal with the Western Pantheon to get a say in how the West votes. They weren't part of any of the three pantheons that built world 2.0.

Which makes them members of the Western Pantheon for Godsmoot purposes as far as I'm concerned. Incidentally, the distinction you make is also why the Dark One's being "a pantheon of one" wouldn't necessarily rule him out from voting with the Northern Pantheon or whatever if things had been different in-universe, which is something I've argued here before.