Balance-wise, are we better off starting with all base 18s?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

I'm curious if, balance-wise, all player characters are better off starting with all base 18s. This way, MADness isn't so mad and, hey, the classes that were powerful before with DEX, CON, and <other stat> are only (likely) slightly more powerful with 18s in everything.

Race, templates, age, and other sources can affect starting stats as usual.

What say you?

[ryu]

Completely and utterly correct. The strongest of classes will receive all told fairly minor buffs to things they didn't even care enough to invest wealth in during their careers. Don't get me wrong. They're nice to have, but they make very little difference in actual capabilities. The classes that generally aren't in this category get the privilege of actually somewhat functioning. The two increases in power are not equal. That said even if they were it'd still be a good move. Do you have any idea how few features of the system are equivalently useful for both spellcasters and non-spellcasters? Fewer still that are actually things you want to invest in?

[OldTrees1]

It depends on what metric and point you measure balance as.

The classes least able to differentiate their members would be homogenized more than the classes best able to differentiate their members.

If you consider that result unfortunate, then consider really high point buy instead of all 18s.

Examples:
32: 16/14/14/14/10/10 vs 18/18/08/08/08/08
36: 18/14/14/14/10/08 vs 18/18/12/08/08/08
40: 18/16/14/14/10/08 vs 18/18/15/08/08/08
44: 18/16/16/14/10/08 vs 18/18/16/10/08/08
48: 18/16/16/16/10/08 vs 18/18/18/08/08/08
... Honestly point buy favors many medium abilities over a few high abilities.

[weckar]

Balance? Yes. RP? Probably not.

[ryu]

Balance? Yes. RP? Probably not.

Only an issue if you're so bereft of creativity you can't think of personality points that don't directly tie to ability scores. How does your character approach problems and think in general? What plans for the future if any? Literally any relevant background to play with like family, organizations, or even a simple reading circle? If you're a spellcaster and can't think of dozens of different personality quirks to incorporate based on what spells you favor you really aren't trying very hard.

One of the nature buff classes like ranger or druid? Sweet. What's your favorite animal? perhaps preferences for certain fruits and veggies? As a worshiper of nature are you against eating meat or you do you see it as the way things were intended?

As anyone, but especially clerics and other divine classes, what deities, if any, do you revere? How many individual creeds have influenced your ideology?

I could keep going for hours.

[Troacctid]

Ability scores are a good vector for introducing strengths and weaknesses to a character. Giving all characters the same ability scores would reduce PC diversity and, I believe, make the game less interesting, while being no more balanced than a traditional point-buy.

[ryu]

Ability scores are a good vector for introducing strengths and weaknesses to a character. Giving all characters the same ability scores would reduce PC diversity and, I believe, make the game less interesting, while being no more balanced than a traditional point-buy.

Even in a party of tier one casters roles will emerge based on the various classes have their own specialties relative to each other. While everyone can given enough effort do anything, and eventually everything, people will still have access to certain things earlier, or for less cost, or do it more effectively at the time of unlock. Even in fields where two classes are relatively even it becomes a question of who focused on being able to do which fields to a high degree of competence.

[weckar]

Only an issue if you're so bereft of creativity you can't think of personality points that don't directly tie to ability scores. How does your character approach problems and think in general? What plans for the future if any? Literally any relevant background to play with like family, organizations, or even a simple reading circle? If you're a spellcaster and can't think of dozens of different personality quirks to incorporate based on what spells you favor you really aren't trying very hard.

One of the nature buff classes like ranger or druid? Sweet. What's your favorite animal? perhaps preferences for certain fruits and veggies? As a worshiper of nature are you against eating meat or you do you see it as the way things were intended?

As anyone, but especially clerics and other divine classes, what deities, if any, do you revere? How many individual creeds have influenced your ideology?

I could keep going for hours.

Still: Everyone is the strong one, the savvy one, the smart one... Defects are more powerful storytelling devices than strengths, and both are far more powerful than interests or preferences.

[ryu]

Still: Everyone is the strong one, the savvy one, the smart one... Defects are more powerful storytelling devices than strengths, and both are far more powerful than interests or preferences.

And statistically representable deficiencies like weakness, stupidity, criminal lack of awareness, being socially incapable, slow, and lack of stamina are some of the most tired of clichés. Dear sweet goodness do you have any idea how many times I've seen those tired horses resurrected before being beaten to death? By all means invent a purposeful flaw if you want. If it took you less than five minutes to conceptualize the character it shouldn't be touted as the example to strive for.

[weckar]

Please, no need to get personal. We have differing opinions and we are expressing them in opposition to each other - welcome to the internet.

[ryu]

Please, no need to get personal. We have differing opinions and we are expressing them in opposition to each other - welcome to the internet.

I haven't gotten personal yet. Haven't said a thing about you. Merely pointing out that if you intend to call out a state of RP as bad, the alternative had best have something behind it. It's accusing the opposition of lacking substance and then throwing out stock tropes type cast from decades ago as the standard.

[Fizban]

For balancing characters and classes against each other, absolutely. For balancing characters against existing monsters, absolutely not, but if you go CR +1 you're probably fine.

[LudicSavant]

Another possibility to consider: 5e includes the tidbit that point buy cannot raise stats above 15, so you can't just dump all of your points into an 18.