Ultimate Optimizer's Multiclassing Guide

[Sicarius Victis]

So, short version:
If you multiclass, do it into a Cha-based spellcasting class.

[Willie the Duck]

So, short version:
If you multiclass, do it into a Cha-based spellcasting class.

They certainly do have both the attribute synergy as well as abilities which complement each other. That said, I'm still waiting for someone to make a comprehensive palabard guide to complement the sorcadin and pallock material out there.

[PeteNutButter]

While druids have a taboo against wearing metal armor and shields, they don't break apart if they do. They know how to wear metal armor and shields. Whether they do is only a matter of choice.

I read that sage advice as well, and didn't interpret it the same.

He said, "If you feel strongly about your druid breaking the taboo and donning metal, talk to your DM."

In my interpretation that puts it squarely in the territory of DM permitted only, but not RAW. If you were allowed RAW, you wouldn't need to talk to your DM. You would just put on half plate like the barbarian in the party, no conversation needed. RAW it appears you need special permission. If you were to try and wear metal armor in AL on your druid you would definitely run into issues.

It's like Blade Singer. It says its elves only, but you can talk to your DM and he is fully capable of lifting this restriction.

I can mention that IF your DM lifts the restrictions, then it greatly improves the rating.

[Naanomi]

So, short version:
If you multiclass, do it into a Cha-based spellcasting class.

Hey, that's not all it says! It also says 'maybe think about dipping fighter, cleric, or rogue'

Great guide in all seriousness

[Arkhios]

I read that sage advice as well, and didn't interpret it the same.

He said, "If you feel strongly about your druid breaking the taboo and donning metal, talk to your DM."

In my interpretation that puts it squarely in the territory of DM permitted only, but not RAW. If you were allowed RAW, you wouldn't need to talk to your DM. You would just put on half plate like the barbarian in the party, no conversation needed. RAW it appears you need special permission. If you were to try and wear metal armor in AL on your druid you would definitely run into issues.

When making your interpretation, note that will not ≠ can not. There's a difference. It is a matter of individual choice. The only issues it would bring would be along the lines that other druids would scoff at you, and likely wouldn't welcome you as one of them. Donning metal armor isn't as bad as teaching Druidic to a non-druid, however, so you wouldn't necessarily be lynched. It's basically just showing the finger at traditions.

[Willie the Duck]

We've all heard the arguments. That's not the point. The Sage said, "talk to your DM." That's not clearly coming down one way or the other on RAW, but instead encouraging houseruling. I personally favor this (I do not believe in the value of RAW), but I know I'm in the minority.

[Mitth'raw'nuruo]

First. Very impressive. Nice work.

Second.

What are you thoughts on A Monk /Ranger (2 or 4)/Fighter (1).

In other words, I am totally look forword to you doing a three class breakdown.

[Gastronomie]

What are you thoughts on A Monk /Ranger (2 or 4)/Fighter (1). In other words, I am totally look forword to you doing a three class breakdown.

Uh, so, you're looking forward to him creating a guide with 1,728 sections? Good luck with convincing him about that.

I think it'll be a better idea to ask him to create a section about dipping levels in the 12 classes. But whether he really will create that is totally up to him.

[2D8HP]

I see that all the Gold are for combinations of CHA based spell casters, and that combo's of my favorite classes (Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue) rate Sky blue at best.
Which combo of Fighter, Ranger, or Rogue is most likely to survive a campaign?

How much damage does Exploding do? Maybe my Druid can survive it, long rest in the armor, and go adventuring the next day in top shape...

My thoughts went more along the lines of, can the rest of the party remotely place metal armor on the Druid?
Mage Hand?

[Mitth'raw'nuruo]

Uh, so, you're looking forward to him creating a guide with 1,728 sections? Good luck with convincing him about that.

I think it'll be a better idea to ask him to create a section about dipping levels in the 12 classes. But whether he really will create that is totally up to him.

Yes. I Am. He has created an outstanding guide, & made it clear, both with his reservation of four threads, and his subsequent posts he intents not to limit his continued labors to refinement & improvement, but expand his opus yet more.

His task is daunting, yet none should belittle him with their own benighted visions.

I'd like to include 3 classes, actually mentioned one or two during the guide, but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. If I add colored breakpoints, it might demonstrate that many classes offer great benefits within the first 4 levels.

[Naanomi]

We had a 'dipping' guide here but it was from pretty early in 5e; but we should probably redo it (as most 3+class multiclasses are actually just about dipping)

[Arkhios]

His task is daunting, yet none should belittle him with their own benighted visions.

Belittling - the bane of progress.

[PeteNutButter]

When making your interpretation, note that will not ≠ can not. There's a difference. It is a matter of individual choice. The only issues it would bring would be along the lines that other druids would scoff at you, and likely wouldn't welcome you as one of them. Donning metal armor isn't as bad as teaching Druidic to a non-druid, however, so you wouldn't necessarily be lynched. It's basically just showing the finger at traditions.

I am afraid that I have to make an assumption one way or the other on how a DM will rule it, as it greatly affects multiclassing. I will edit the Druid post to talk about this.

Regardless, Druid dips are going to be regularly outclasses by cleric dips for the vast majority of builds. Domain powers just add so much more.

[djreynolds]

Excellent guide.

Somewhere I will point my players to in the future.

[Fishyninja]

I will second this.

At first glance, everything looks great and all the breakpoints make sense.

Well done!

Again I second this, I am also happy as you have confirmed a few thoughs I have had for my Monk character when many people told me not to multiclass (with this character being my first attempt)! So thank you.

[Ravinsild]

Why isn't this stickied somewhere? This is perfect for me, with my weird obsession with gish type characters...

[Hakon]

pretty sure multi classing into paladin only gives access to medium armour, not heavy, could be wrong, don't have my source book with me, but i would be checking that.

[Arkhios]

pretty sure multi classing into paladin only gives access to medium armour, not heavy, could be wrong, don't have my source book with me, but i would be checking that.

True. If you multiclass with a fighter or paladin from a class that doesn't have heavy armor proficiency, you only get up to medium armor proficiency.

[Gnaeus]

As a mostly PF player and multiclassing fan who occasionally plays 5e and doesn't want to reinvent the wheel every game, I also loved this and hope it gets stickied.

[BurgTurdler]

True. If you multiclass with a fighter or paladin from a class that doesn't have heavy armor proficiency, you only get up to medium armor proficiency.

I believe one level of cleric will give you heavy armor prof. with some of the domains.

[Arkhios]

I believe one level of cleric will give you heavy armor prof. with some of the domains.

I believe I was only talking about fighters and paladins ;)

[Fishyninja]

PetenutButter's Ultimate Optimizer's Multiclassing Guide

Spoiler: Chart

Show

x

Barbarian

Bard

Cleric

Druid

Fighter

Monk

Paladin

Ranger

Rogue

Sorcerer

Warlock

Wizard

Barbarian

x

Barb/Bard

Barb/Cleric

Barb/Druid

Barb/Fighter

Barb/Monk

Barb/Paladin

Barb/Ranger

Barb/Rogue

Barb/Sorc

Barb/Warlock

Barb/Wizard

Bard

Bard/Barb

x

Bard/Cleric

Bard/Druid

Bard/Fighter

Bard/Monk

Bard/Paladin

Bard/Ranger

Bard/Rogue

Bard/Sorc

Bard/Warlock

Bard/Wizard

Cleric

Cleric/Barb

Cleric/Bard

x

Cleric/Druid

Cleric/Fighter

Cleric/Monk

Cleric/Paladin

Cleric/Ranger

Cleric/Rogue

Cleric/Sorc

Cleric/Warlock

Cleric/Wizard

Druid

Druid/Barb

Druid/Bard

Druid/Cleric

x

Druid/Fighter

Druid/Monk

Druid/Paladin

Druid/Ranger

Druid/Rogue

Druid/Sorc

Druid/Warlock

Druid/Wizard

Fighter

Fighter/Barb

Fighter/Bard

Fighter/Cleric

Fighter/Druid

x

Fighter/Monk

Fighter/Paladin

Fighter/Ranger

Fighter/Rogue

Fighter/Sorc

Fighter/Warlock

Fighter/Wizard

Monk

Monk/Barb

Monk/Bard

Monk/Cleric

Monk/Druid

Monk/Fighter

x

Monk/Paladin

Monk/Ranger

Monk/Rogue

Monk/Sorc

Monk/Warlock

Monk/Wizard

Paladin

Paladin/Barb

Paladin/Bard

Paladin/Cleric

Paladin/Druid

Paladin/Fighter

Paladin/Monk

x

Paladin/Ranger

Paladin/Rogue

Paladin/Sorc

Paladin/Warlock

Paladin/Wizard

Ranger

Ranger/Barb

Ranger/Bard

Ranger/Cleric

Ranger/Druid

Ranger/Fighter

Ranger/Monk

Ranger/Paladin

x

Ranger/Rogue

Ranger/Sorc

Ranger/Warlock

Ranger/Wizard

Rogue

Rogue/Barb

Rogue/Bard

Rogue/Cleric

Rogue/Druid

Rogue/Fighter

Rogue/Monk

Rogue/Paladin

Rogue/Ranger

x

Rogue/Sorc

Rogue/Warlock

Rogue/Wizard

Sorcerer

Sorc/Barb

Sorc/Bard

Sorc/Cleric

Sorc/Druid

Sorc/Fighter

Sorc/Monk

Sorc/Paladin

Sorc/Ranger

Sorc/Rogue

x

Sorc/Warlock

Sorc/Wizard

Warlock

Warlock/Barb

Warlock/Bard

Warlock/Cleric

Warlock/Druid

Warlock/Fighter

Warlock/Monk

Warlock/Paladin

Warlock/Ranger

Warlock/Rogue

Warlock/Sorc

x

Warlock/Wizard

Wizard

Wizard/Barb

Wizard/Bard

Wizard/Cleric

Wizard/Druid

Wizard/Fighter

Wizard/Monk

Wizard/Paladin

Wizard/Ranger

Wizard/Rogue

Wizard/Sorc

Wizard/Warlock

x

Spoiler: Multiclass Colors

Show

Gold You really can't go wrong here. These two just compliment each other so well.
Sky blue There are a lot of good class combinations here that can make for some solid builds.
Blue There is some clear synergy here, but not as much as Gold or Sky Blue. May take some optimization to ensure the multiclass adds to the build.
Black This is decent, but doesn't really make the class better at its core strengths or may be MAD
Purple You are forgoing too much in your core class, compared to what you can gain. Possible for some niche builds, but probably best avoided. Likely MAD.
Red The lack of synergy here is just offensive. It's MAD. I'd avoid it altogether.

Small edit suggestion......Swap these two spoilers around, it's nothing major, just makes it a little easier to read.

[Ashuan21]

This is a wonderful guide and I wanted to refresh the world's attention to it!!

Then, I really hope you will find time to update this thread to take into account all the new options coming with UAs (which may slightly change some interactions between some classes).
A possible addition (not as overwhelming as studying the 3 classes breakdown) could be to point out some race/class interactions which are particularly strong, not simply because of a +2 where you need it, but for other abilities (A Sharpshooter Kobold? A Protector Aasimar Druid?).

Furthermore... I see little love for the Druid/Paladin, but I feel like smiting in Wildshape, with tons of total HPs, some beasts giving up to 3 Attacks (Giant Scorpion), other beasts so unlikely to represent a threat (imagine a cat smiting the **** ot of someone ) and full caster progression is a huuuuuge thing.
Bonus points for a Paladin(OathofConquest(UA))3/MoonDruidX, giving access to Armor of Agathys...
Moreover there is nothing to be MAD at regarding this build, you need Char 13, Str 13 and Wis 13. You can dump Int and accept a low Con and Dex, so you can actually boost that Wis up to 15 if you really want! No need for the ASIs too... I would go for variant Human and only rely on Feats, Sentinel, Warcaster and Lucky for example, we have plenty of space!!
At level 12 a Paladin2/Druid10 is capable of becoming an Earth Elemental, a huge tank now implemented with a ton of slots to smite and to cure itself; I see this as going more towards the SkyBlue (leave the gold for the Sorcadin) than the Black!!

[Zene]

They certainly do have both the attribute synergy as well as abilities which complement each other. That said, I'm still waiting for someone to make a comprehensive palabard guide to complement the sorcadin and pallock material out there.

Is there a good paladin/warlock guide you'd recommend? Gastronomie's Sorcadin guide is amazing, but I haven't seen anything even close to that on the pal/lock side.

[Arkhios]

Is there a good paladin/warlock guide you'd recommend? Gastronomie's Sorcadin guide is amazing, but I haven't seen anything even close to that on the pal/lock side.

How difficult would it be, though?

I can see three different ways to build one:

1) Paladin 17-18/Warlock 2-3
Get the 2nd level spell slots for quaranteed smites 2/short rest, and all paladin spell levels, along with most paladin class features. Really tough build.

2) Paladin 11/Warlock 9
Up to 3rd level Paladin spells, and 5th level Warlock spells and spell slots 2/short rest.
Improved Divine Smite quarantees quite solid damage with weapons and 5th level spell slots more often is quite nice as well.

3) Paladin 2-3/Warlock 17-18
Pretty much the opposite of the first, focusing more on the spellcasting, with the addition to getting up to 9th level Mystic Arcanum.

Seriously, do you even need a guide for that?

[Zene]

How difficult would it be, though?

I can see three different ways to build one:

1) Paladin 17-18/Warlock 2-3
Get the 2nd level spell slots for quaranteed smites 2/short rest, and all paladin spell levels, along with most paladin class features. Really tough build.

2) Paladin 11/Warlock 9
Up to 3rd level Paladin spells, and 5th level Warlock spells and spell slots 2/short rest.
Improved Divine Smite quarantees quite solid damage with weapons and 5th level spell slots more often is quite nice as well.

3) Paladin 2-3/Warlock 17-18
Pretty much the opposite of the first, focusing more on the spellcasting, with the addition to getting up to 9th level Mystic Arcanum.

Seriously, do you even need a guide for that?

You could say the exact same thing for sorcadin. What about feats? Level progression? Playstyle/strategy? Invocation, pact and oath choices? Yes, you could figure all that out of course. But you could for sorcadin as well.

Basically, if people find paladin guides and warlock guides useful, a pal/lock guide will be just as useful if not more, given the complexity of the possible interactions between the two classes.

[Ashuan21]

Warlock 3 Undying Light for Pact of the tome: Shillelagh and Radiant Soul, Oathbreaker 7 for Char to damage, Dueling fighting style, and Divine Favour; take Polearm master, grab a quarterstaff and run around with 3 attacks a turn dealing 3xChar(Shillelagh, Oathbreaker'sAura, RadiantSoul+DivineFavour) +2 (Fighting style) magical damage each... And we didn't even get to dice and smites!!

[Arkhios]

Warlock 3 Undying Light for Pact of the tome: Shillelagh and Radiant Soul, Oathbreaker 7 for Char to damage, Dueling fighting style, and Divine Favour; take Polearm master, grab a quarterstaff and run around with 3 attacks a turn dealing 3xChar(Shillelagh, Oathbreaker'sAura, RadiantSoul+DivineFavour) +2 (Fighting style) magical damage each... And we didn't even get to dice and smites!!

And this, here, is a perfect example why the Undying Light Patron is considered over powered and broken, and why most people consider all other Unearthed Arcana material too strong or too fiddly to allow them in their games.

Plus there is the slight factor as to why in the world would any sensible DM allow such a build anyway.

[Ashuan21]

And this, here, is a perfect example why the Undying Light Patron is considered over powered and broken, and why most people consider all other Unearthed Arcana material too strong or too fiddly to allow them in their games.

Plus there is the slight factor as to why in the world would any sensible DM allow such a build anyway.

I guess you are in the wrong thread then xD... anyway I agree about the silliness of Undying Light, and the writers were probably drunk when they wrote it.

If we remove Undying Light and substitute for Fiend we have a weaker build but a thematically interesting one!
Oathbreaker + Fiend clearly sold its soul to a Devil, and gained uber power from this.

[Reosoul]

As a big fan of multi-classing, I'm really loving the work you put into this thread. Thanks a lot, Pete!