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  1. - Top - End - #481
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Galactkaktus View Post
    Ok my post was directed to the thread in general and not that specifik goodly rolled character. But my take on using those rolls 18,17,16,13,11,9 and starting on level 2 would be.

    Human variant
    Str 13
    Dex 18+1
    Con 16
    Wis 11
    Int 9
    Cha 17+1
    Feat war caster

    Level 1 sorcerer1 for the con save and draconic resilience is really nice before you find any cool + armor
    Level2 sor1/pala1 the big benefit is the shield proficency.
    That would be my starting point. I trade wisdom save for con save and since i am able to cast a spell i can take war caster as my bonus feat for human variant it also has 3 less hit points than straight paladin but i think that access to the shield spell and draconic resilience makes up for that. The big loss at level two is no smite at level two. And the big gain is lots of AC since you have Warcaster draconic resilience and a shield.
    Level 3 sor1/pala2
    SMITE!!! and either dueling or defense fighting style.
    Level 4 sor2/pala2
    Not a very exciting level but sadly you need level 2 sor before you can take sor 3 :/
    Level 5 sor3/pala2
    This should be the first level that starts to show the potential of this particular multiclass with Quickened Spell you can both cast and attack in one round or attack twice with the help of the attacking cantrips twin spell is also really great. Straight paladin is probably stronger at this point since they gain an extra attack at this level. You do have more smithes per day though.
    Level 6 sor4/pala2
    Here i would take +2 to charisma and really enjoy my extra level 2 spell slot and my 2 extra level 3 spell slots
    Level 7 sor5/pala2
    Level 3 spells are really good.

    This is the point where i would decide if i want to go 6 levels of paladin or not level 3 spells are a big deal which is why i want to reach sor 5 before i make that commitment. The idea with the 19 dex is to take the resilient feat for my next asi.
    Can't do Human variant. We are playing as offspring of our characters when I last played a formal campaign (back in 2.5 days), 30 years since.
    Just basics so I am going half-elf.

    That is about where I am. I am planning put my 18 on cha to go ahead and get 20 with the racial bonus. 17 on dex with a +1 since a 19 isn't going to help over an 18. I added my next +1 to get wis to a 12. I plan on battle caster first and then adjust dex by 2. That is around the time I may need to tank a bit. This gives me 13,18 (17+1),16,12(11+1),9,20(18+2)

    Your progression is right where I am thinking. I have never played with metamagic so I am looking at careful, twinned or quickened. Thoughts?

    The help has been great here. I really appreciate the advice.

  2. - Top - End - #482
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    I'd base your choice of metamagic on the spells you want to take. Personally I love quickened, and I think subtle is also a must have... both because it lets you do diabolical things in a social setting and because it lets you trump a counterspell. Depending on what you plan on taking, other metamagic might make more sense for you.

  3. - Top - End - #483
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Well half elf is great aswell it's actually stronger in the long run but gets abit of a slower start since you can't start with warcaster and hence have a hard time using a shield + sword before level 6. If i would have used half elf i would do it like this.

    Str 13
    Dex 17+1
    Con 16+1
    Wis 11
    Int 9
    Cha 18+2

    Follow the same progression path as with variant human. With the differences of getting war caster at level 6 being able to cast things that requires a somatic component while having your hands full is really key. The other point where half elf gets a bit more clunky than variant human is when you get your second asi if you max your dex which is the best thing to do you can't use resilient(dex) to do it since you need 2 dex and not 1. A workaround whould be to get 1 con and 1 dex with your second asi and max dex at your third asi. But the third asi is really far away but if you get there half elf should just be stronger than human.

    For metamagic

    Quicken spell is the really important one like really really important. It allows you to attack twice with the help of the cantrips "Green flame blade"/"Booming blade" if you hit with those attacks you can smite on both ocations just be aware of your resource management. And acording to me more importantly casting a spell as a bonus action to get all the utility that spellcasting grants without sacrificing your attack for the turn.

    Twin is also very good if you face multiple oponents you can use twin on "Booming blade" for just 1 sorcery point instead of 2 that quicken whould require. Sadly you can't twin "Green flame blade" since it can hit more than one target. The other really good thing to do with twin is to twin buff spells that requires concentration like "Haste" but singel target debuffs that requires concentration are also prime candidates for twin.

    I would start with Quicken and Twin for maximum nova potential with stuff like quicken "Gren flame blade" SMITE!!! and on the same turn Twin "Booming blade" on two different targets and smite both of them.

    The third metamagic choice for me would probably be careful spell. Maybe heightened spell but the third choice comes so late so you'll probably have lots of time to make that decision.

    The advantage of 19 dex is that it opens up resilient(dex) as a real option since that will raise dex by 1 and give dex save proficency.

  4. - Top - End - #484
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Thumbs up Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    That makes sense to use resilient for dex. I didn't think about reflex saves. I was going the boost to wis to get another plus on saves but dex makes more sense. We start playing Sunday but you know how the first game goes....slow... I'll post anything I learn playing this guy.

  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    I was thinking about building a Sorcadin for a game we'll be playing at level 11-12 (maybe 13). It would be a party of 4, with 2 of them being ranged (hand crossbow fighter and an EB spam bard/warlock). I thought Oath of the Crown would be a good fit as a tank based on other input on the thread.

    With the third probably being a monk, we are lacking a lot of aoe damage and I really like the idea of having the spirit guardians blender, at least on paper, however this would require a paladin/sorcerer investment of 9/11 at minimum. The question I have is do you think I am putting too much stock in getting 3rd level paladin spells, or would 6/14 be a better split? Are there better spells in most situations for me to be concentrating on, possibly from the more expanded sorcerer spell list if I did 6/14 instead? Should I suck it up and lose the spell level at 9/11, or maybe go all the way to 12/8?

  6. - Top - End - #486
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothjedi View Post
    I was thinking about building a Sorcadin for a game we'll be playing at level 11-12 (maybe 13). It would be a party of 4, with 2 of them being ranged (hand crossbow fighter and an EB spam bard/warlock). I thought Oath of the Crown would be a good fit as a tank based on other input on the thread.

    With the third probably being a monk, we are lacking a lot of aoe damage and I really like the idea of having the spirit guardians blender, at least on paper, however this would require a paladin/sorcerer investment of 9/11 at minimum. The question I have is do you think I am putting too much stock in getting 3rd level paladin spells, or would 6/14 be a better split? Are there better spells in most situations for me to be concentrating on, possibly from the more expanded sorcerer spell list if I did 6/14 instead? Should I suck it up and lose the spell level at 9/11, or maybe go all the way to 12/8?
    I would go with 6 levels of paladin and the rest in sorcerer you will atleast have hypnotic pattern for "aoe" that scales extremly well with increasing hp pools from the monsters. The main reason that i would go for more sorcerer levels is the increased amount of resources more spell slots more sorcery points and so on.

  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Galactkaktus View Post
    I would go with 6 levels of paladin and the rest in sorcerer you will atleast have hypnotic pattern for "aoe" that scales extremly well with increasing hp pools from the monsters. The main reason that i would go for more sorcerer levels is the increased amount of resources more spell slots more sorcery points and so on.
    Then I think that's what I will do. Thanks!

  8. - Top - End - #488
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Best guide I've read for 5e!
    One question... Would a lvl 1 dip into lock to get Hexblade ans remove MAD from the build be a good idea? This way, get Stone Sorcerer and all you need is CON and CHA.
    Makes sense?

  9. - Top - End - #489
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    One more question. In your Sorcerous Origins analysis, you mentioned Favored Soul twice with them getting Cleric Domains. That's not the case anymore right? FS only gets Cleric spells now as far as I know.

  10. - Top - End - #490
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Great guide, actually getting really interested in Sorcadin. Starting a new AL character with eventual access to starting 29 STR from an item. As such I want to take a look at Sorcadin, totally dumping STR then getting it from the item. I feel like this will be a unique opportunity to try out a MAD build. I'm playing totally for late game. Since my STR is so crazy I think that I want to be as light on spellcasting as possible since my melee phases are so efficient. I was thinking either Paladin 11 Devotion, Sorcerer Wild Magic 9, or Paladin 11 Dev, Wild Magic Sorc 5, Champion 4. I wanted to know the thoughts on the best Oaths for 11 Paladin levels, the best Sorc Subclasses, maybe Stone if it comes out in Xanathar's and if a Champion Dip for increased Crit range is worth losing spell slots. The only magic I plan on using is Counterspell, Haste, GFB, Shield and Smiting. Thoughts?

    Point buying at 8 Str 14 Dex, 16 Con, 12 Wis, 8 Wis 16 Cha Var Human Res Con.
    Last edited by ArchRain; 2017-08-20 at 09:33 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #491
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRain View Post
    As such I want to take a look at Sorcadin, totally dumping STR then getting it from the item.

    Point buying at 8 Str 14 Dex, 16 Con, 12 Wis, 8 Wis 16 Cha Var Human Res Con.
    Keep in mind that the rules as intended, to multiclass out of paladin into sorcerer you'll need at least 13 in strength and charisma. Magic items don't cut it (unless something is different in AL, but I would not be surprised if you sit down at an AL table and they tell you no-go)
    Last edited by Nod_Hero; 2017-08-20 at 10:09 PM. Reason: added link to two Sage Advice/tweets

  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    So I rolled really good and made a paladin 6 aetherborn which will on the next level be a drac sorc. My stats will either be 10, 18, 14, 11, 14, 20 or 20 dex and 18 cha. Question is which one is the best? Im allowed to mc pala with 13 dex instead btw. I have warcaster and its a vengeance pala.
    Last edited by Findulidas; 2017-08-22 at 02:10 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #493
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Thamls, you raise a really good point. I'll have to clear it with my area organizer. AL usually plays RAW over RAI but I certainly don't want to end up investing in a character who's legality changes per table.

  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Something I've been wondering: what backgrounds benefit this setup best? I know Backgrounds can be made up, but I'm curious what ones from the books would benefit a Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass?
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  15. - Top - End - #495
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by czeuch View Post
    Best guide I've read for 5e!
    One question... Would a lvl 1 dip into lock to get Hexblade ans remove MAD from the build be a good idea? This way, get Stone Sorcerer and all you need is CON and CHA.
    Makes sense?
    It makes sense for a Hexblade/Stone Sorc mix for sure. 1 level gets you Cha to attacks, Eldritch Blast, and a single short rest spell slot for stuff like Shield. A 2nd level gets you another short rest spell slot, and invocations (agonizing blast is a must-have) though you lose an ASI and more spell progression as a result.

    I don't think it makes as much sense for Hexblade + Stone Sorc + Paladin, because you still need Str 13 which is a bit of a waste. Your spell progression is also watered down yet another level. Paladin smites are nice, but you also have smite options through Stone Sorc which are semi-decent.

  16. - Top - End - #496
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    So i have read this post a few times since starting playing d&d a few months ago.

    I am going to be playing a 1-shot this weekend with level 10 characters and was considering building a Pal 6 / Sorc 4 for this. We are going to be able to start with possibly 1 magic item and some extent of gear. Was considering Gauntlets of Ogre Strength. Platemail (possibly +1) and Greatsword +1.

    Standard point buy going V. Human for
    STR 13 (boosted to 19 w/ gauntlets)
    DEX 10
    CON 15+1
    INT 8
    WIS 10
    CHA 15+1

    Feats + Asi
    Great Weapon Master - V-Human
    Blade Mastery - Paladin 4

    Sorc -4 - Not sure what to use this on. +2 cons/cha?

    If i don't get the gauntlets then

    STR 15 +1
    DEX 8
    CON 15
    INT 8
    WIS 8
    CHA 15+1

    Feats + ASI
    Great Weapon Master - V-Human
    STR +2 - Paladin 4
    Resilient Con - Sorc -4

    EDIT -- Got confirmation I am getting gauntlets.

    From everything I have read the Sorcadin is best at high levels so not sure if a level 10 1-shot character will really be able to shine. I am also unsure on oaths/sorc path but was thinking Veng and Wild Mag sorc.

    If i could get any insight on this or if I should abandon this for a 1-shot and just go something.... simpler. =)

    thanks
    Last edited by Khobahi; 2017-09-06 at 12:55 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #497
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Khobahi View Post

    I am going to be playing a 1-shot this weekend with level 10 characters and was considering building a Pal 6 / Sorc 4 for this.
    This is a doable mix, for sure. The key to getting the most out of it will be your spell and meta magic choices. You will have 4 sorcery points, so for sure stick to the cheap seats.

    Empowered smite spells may become your best friend.

  18. - Top - End - #498
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Matrix_Walker View Post
    This is a doable mix, for sure. The key to getting the most out of it will be your spell and meta magic choices. You will have 4 sorcery points, so for sure stick to the cheap seats.

    Empowered smite spells may become your best friend.
    Smite doesn't count as a spell I thought? How would you empower it?

  19. - Top - End - #499
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Khobahi View Post
    Smite doesn't count as a spell I thought? How would you empower it?
    You can empower spell smites, like Wrathful Smite. I haven't done any looking into the damage for how closely that gets spell smites to equal a quickened GFB smite, but I'd imagine it's close enough so long as you also wanted the rider effect.

  20. - Top - End - #500
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterdeep Merch View Post
    You can empower spell smites, like Wrathful Smite. I haven't done any looking into the damage for how closely that gets spell smites to equal a quickened GFB smite, but I'd imagine it's close enough so long as you also wanted the rider effect.
    If I'm looking to nova with a paladin/sorcerer, I would take quicken over empower. Quicken fireball or lightning bolt and then full attacking with smite., is the way I would go.

  21. - Top - End - #501
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Byke View Post
    If I'm looking to nova with a paladin/sorcerer, I would take quicken over empower. Quicken fireball or lightning bolt and then full attacking with smite., is the way I would go.
    If the game were ongoing, I would agree with you, but as a one shot with a level 6/4 Sorcadin, that would give you a single use of quicken per long rest unless you are swapping out your limited spell slots for sorcery points, I'd rather have the versatility of sticking to metamagic choices usng less than 2 sorcery points, twin might stay on the table, but quicken wouln't make my cut.

  22. - Top - End - #502
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Byke View Post
    If I'm looking to nova with a paladin/sorcerer, I would take quicken over empower. Quicken fireball or lightning bolt and then full attacking with smite., is the way I would go.
    Taking some time to do the math, here's my findings:

    For most sorcadin builds, spell smites mean searing smite, thunderous smite, and wrathful smite. Those that go to 5+ in paladin might also grab branding smite, and those that go to 9+ can get blinding smite, and the oddball 13+ can get staggering smite. Of those, thunderous smite is a good positioning tool that causes prone, wrathful smite can frighten enemies, branding smite screws over invisible and stealth-type enemies, blinding smite is carries a great debuff, and staggering smite can basically waste an enemy's turn (for the, like, 2 sorcadins that will go 13+ in paladin).

    They all work off d6's, and are at least one dice down from a normal smite as well (the exceptions being blinding and branding, which are d8's though still down a die). That really hurts their damage potential (thunderous smite does 3.5(1d6) versus a regular level 1 smite at 9(2d8)), which empower very slightly improves (4.472).

    Full comparison of averages, with and without rerolls:
    Smite Spell Smite Spell Smite with Empower
    9 3.5 4.472
    13.5 7 8.944
    18 10.5 13.416
    22.5 14 17.888
    27 17.5 22.36

    As you can see, it's a little more viable at higher spell slots to use empower, and you're not missing out too much on damage. It's a lot more noticeable on crits, as even at capped charisma you can't use empower on more than 5 dice (so their average on a level 5 smite is 39.86 versus a regular smite's 54)Though even this table is a bit misleading, as the comparison isn't really with spell smites versus regular smites. It's spell smites versus quickened SCAG smites. By quickening a SCAG smite, you're using exactly the same amount of resources and getting a bonus weapon damage dice, attribute modifier, weapon enhancement bonuses (if any), and the damage riders from the SCAG cantrips themselves.

    At best, with a GW-wielding sorcadin at level 17+ with 20's in strength and charisma, as well as the GW fighting style and GWM, that's a massive 36.83, plus 21.83 if it crits. That brings a level 5 smite on a quickened BB or GFB to 63.83 on average, and 112.66 on a crit. Rather nasty compared to 22.36/39.86. Remember that I'm comparing what damage is brought to the table from spending a level 5 spell slot, a single sorcery point, and a bonus action, and NOT the actual attack that the spell smite would be attached to. Because that requires a different action type, and a sorcadin would be dealing the same damage with those regardless of investiture here. To say nothing of using quicken to do things like cast hold person/monster.

    After reviewing it, empowered smites simply aren't worth the investment compared to quickened SCAG smites. Giving up that much damage for the meager riders just isn't a good trade, especially on a build that could easily get better debuffs elsewhere in their kit.

  23. - Top - End - #503
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Thanks for the replies, i'll be playing this on Saturday and will see how the class is (although a supplement of it at pal6/sorc4). Getting the gauntlets so will be going 13 str but boosted for level 10 which should be fine for it. Just deciding on spells now =). I think i will go with Quicken+ something, getting GFB should i also get BB?

  24. - Top - End - #504
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Khobahi View Post
    Thanks for the replies, i'll be playing this on Saturday and will see how the class is (although a supplement of it at pal6/sorc4). Getting the gauntlets so will be going 13 str but boosted for level 10 which should be fine for it. Just deciding on spells now =). I think i will go with Quicken+ something, getting GFB should i also get BB?
    Definitely because you can twin BB but not GFB. Also if enemy is resistant to fire, quite common, switch to BB.

  25. - Top - End - #505
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterdeep Merch View Post
    After reviewing it, empowered smites simply aren't worth the investment compared to quickened SCAG smites. Giving up that much damage for the meager riders just isn't a good trade, especially on a build that could easily get better debuffs elsewhere in their kit.
    I stand corrected.

  26. - Top - End - #506
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Something interesting I realised while looking at defensive spells for a Paladin2/Sorcerer18 build (leveling from 1) is Shield.
    Im thinking of going Dexterity build because i fell like im wasting draconic resilience from sorcerer in full plate, this means that at the starting levels im going to be a bit squishier (but mirror image potentially lasts longer).

    Although i love the idea of using my reaction for things like Sentinel and warcaster, I'm having issues justifying to myself not taking ASI, so i will use Shield for my reaction.

    Basically when combat starts, i charge in and smack the enemy. Probably get hit in turn which allows me to see how strong they are (we try not to metagame) and its doubtful they kill me in 1 turn. If they hurt like hell, then on MY turn i move out of their threat area meaning they get an attack of opportunity, then go for Shield. Shield lasts until the start of your next turn so will cover me for when they next attacks as well. By using Shield on your turn you effectively get more mileage out of the spell than just using it for protection against the monster that goes just before you in the turn order.

    I'm sure many people do this, but still interested to know if this is a viable use of reaction / spell etc?

  27. - Top - End - #507
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Gignere View Post
    Definitely because you can twin BB but not GFB. Also if enemy is resistant to fire, quite common, switch to BB.
    I guess, though I will probably be using most of my sorc Points for quickening cantrips (guess BB still works here) or spells and then using my 2 attacks since im going 6 pally 4 sorc for this build. trying to decide my spells so far is the hardest part of this.

    4 sorc so i get 5 spells level 1/2 below is what i have come up with so far, as for preparing Paladin spells I can figure that out on the fly.

    -Shield
    -???
    -Web
    -Suggestion
    -Mirror Image

  28. - Top - End - #508
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by anarchy33 View Post
    Something interesting I realised while looking at defensive spells for a Paladin2/Sorcerer18 build (leveling from 1) is Shield.
    Im thinking of going Dexterity build because i fell like im wasting draconic resilience from sorcerer in full plate, this means that at the starting levels im going to be a bit squishier (but mirror image potentially lasts longer).

    Although i love the idea of using my reaction for things like Sentinel and warcaster, I'm having issues justifying to myself not taking ASI, so i will use Shield for my reaction.

    Basically when combat starts, i charge in and smack the enemy. Probably get hit in turn which allows me to see how strong they are (we try not to metagame) and its doubtful they kill me in 1 turn. If they hurt like hell, then on MY turn i move out of their threat area meaning they get an attack of opportunity, then go for Shield. Shield lasts until the start of your next turn so will cover me for when they next attacks as well. By using Shield on your turn you effectively get more mileage out of the spell than just using it for protection against the monster that goes just before you in the turn order.

    I'm sure many people do this, but still interested to know if this is a viable use of reaction / spell etc?
    Of course it is viable to use your reaction to shield. Keep in mind though, that using shield is a gamble (assuming you do not know the enemy's roll and attack bonus), and that gamble pays better the higher your base AC is (or effective AC, excluding the +5 shield bonus that is, eg with blur added in). Using shield on top of a base AC of 21 instead on top of a lower base AC, will result in more damage prevention on an average, and what's more, with a higher base AC you will be called to use shield (ie spell slots and your reaction) less often than with a lower base AC.

    It's not that you will be too squishy AC wise, it is that you are missing on the synergy I described above (which IMO is one of the best parts of a sorcadin build) if you are not aiming for a a maxed AC. (And since personally I am not really impresed by either anything that a 2/18 split offers, or by going dex based on a ''pure'' sorcadin, I find the idea of going with a 16-19 -loosely- base AC to be a trap, but I digress.)

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    A note on mirror image. Mirror image will indeed work better for a dex based build than with a str based build. But IMO this spell lasts too little, and when I factor in the action and resources it consumes (2sp and a bonus action, or an action with no sp cost, and ofc a 2nd level spell slot), I find it only good as a panic button, and not as part of my routine strategy.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Lastly, a note for the feat/ASI progression that you mentioned (which has to do with concentration and with saving throws too). You are getting ASI's at character levels 6, 10, 14, etc. If you take a +2 DEX at level 6, then it is until level 10 for warcaster. That means 9 levels without either using spells mid combat, or without carrying a shield. And of course, that also means 9 levels without much using concentration spells (or use them at a great risk of losing them, with just a +2 concentration bonus), and you've got lots of good concentration spells, especially by that point (1st level paladin spells, and up to 4th level sorcerer spells).

    Then, at level 10, when you take warcaster (assuming you prioritize it to the second DEX boost ofc), you will pack a shield, but your concentration will not be rocksolid (at least by my risk-averse standards), despite the advantage on concentration checks. A +2 concentration with advantage, means 87.75% chance of mantaining concentration each time you take damage. That means 77% chance of mantaining concentration after the second hit, 67.5% after the third hit, and it keeps dropping. Your best bet is to choose to focus on greater invisibility (possibly picking twinned metamagic to profit some ally as well), so to avoid getting hit too many times, and thus minimizing this great risk of losing concentration (bless is a good alternative I guess), but that's really limiting IMO and denies you what added versatility you can have by exploiting other sorcerer (or paladin; see wrathful smite) concentration spells. Or at the very least, it almost confides you into a backrow position when using such spells.

    But that aside, you will be pretty much want constitution save proficiency by then (since by missing your aura of protection, and since warcaster does not improve con saves), as your con save will stand at a mere +2 (that's a killer right there -And assuming your start sorcerer for that con save prof, same argument goes for wisdom saves, which can shut down a character). So you are looking at resilient con too, apart from warcaster. Both for the con save proficiency, and for the concentration much desired added bonus.

    And since you went dex based, you are also probably a halfelf (though vhuman works pretty much the same, if not slightly better if I my say so; scratch that, what I meant was, vhuman works equally bad *takes off gloves*), you have just one ASI remaining, to max dex at level 18. And you are done, a 18th level fullcaster (with access to 9th level slots, and the spell slot equivalent of a 19th level caster), with only a 16 charisma. It's not unplayable, but I find it suboptimal. That's why I prefer str based sorcadins (so I dont have to worry about maxing my attack stat, as sorcadins have a fairly low dpr and str does not offer much more/ if I wanter a gish grapper I would not play a sorcadin), who also hit at least paladin 6 (so I dont need both warcaster and resilient/ I prefer warcaster if S&B, resilient if two hander; but honestly I find S&B much much better).

    Ramble over, thanks for your patience...
    Hacks!

  29. - Top - End - #509
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterdeep Merch View Post
    After reviewing it, empowered smites simply aren't worth the investment compared to quickened SCAG smites. Giving up that much damage for the meager riders just isn't a good trade, especially on a build that could easily get better debuffs elsewhere in their kit.
    You know, Cantrips are spells too, and can be empowered ;)
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  30. - Top - End - #510
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Khobahi View Post
    I am going to be playing a 1-shot this weekend with level 10 characters and was considering building a Pal 6 / Sorc 4 for this. We are going to be able to start with possibly 1 magic item and some extent of gear. Was considering Gauntlets of Ogre Strength. Platemail (possibly +1) and Greatsword +1.

    Standard point buy going V. Human for
    STR 13 (boosted to 19 w/ gauntlets)
    DEX 10
    CON 15+1
    INT 8
    WIS 10
    CHA 15+1

    Feats + Asi
    Great Weapon Master - V-Human
    Blade Mastery - Paladin 4

    Sorc -4 - Not sure what to use this on. +2 cons/cha?

    EDIT -- Got confirmation I am getting gauntlets.

    From everything I have read the Sorcadin is best at high levels so not sure if a level 10 1-shot character will really be able to shine. I am also unsure on oaths/sorc path but was thinking Veng and Wild Mag sorc.

    If i could get any insight on this or if I should abandon this for a 1-shot and just go something.... simpler. =)

    thanks
    My advice depends on your weapon of choice. If you really want the Greatsword, you might be better off going Paladin 6 / Warlock 4 with the Fiend patron. You get slightly more HP and tempHP for scoring kills, Agonising Blast gives you a powerful ranged option and you can spend the Warlock spell slots (read: short rest spell slots) on Divine Smite. If you're ok going Longsword + Shield, I might prefer Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 8 with a focus on the SCAG cantrips for DPR. Pick up War Caster instead of Great Weapon Master and become more of a frontline tank and controller than a killing machine. Consider taking Careful Spell and spells like Web, Hypnotic Pattern, Sleet Storm etc. You will miss Aura of Protection for the buff to concentration checks but you need the Sorcerer levels for the spells and Sorcery Points. If it were me playing, I would choose one of those two options.

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