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  1. - Top - End - #421
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Corran View Post
    All of the helpful info
    Thanks so much for your informative post, Corran! I think I'll start 11/3 and then continue on with sorcerer after that. Maybe grab a 1 level dip of warlock at some point for the cha to damage on fire and radiant spells.

  2. - Top - End - #422
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by DDjake View Post
    First, thank you for that write up. That is a lot of information I had no knowledge about.

    I had just gotten my party's dynamic: Light Cleric, ? Monk, Arcane Trickster Rogue. I think I'll fit in alright as a 2/8 build and go sorc levels from there. If you have any other suggestions, after know what the party will consist of, I am all ears. You're amazing for explaining all of this and it has helped me understand the Sorcadin better, I greatly appreciate it.
    Dont mention it. If you look closer, you'll see that most of what I told you is already in the guide, so I am just relaying Gastronomie's advice for the most part here (I dont mind getting the praise, but blame him if this doesnt work out in actual play! ).

    Ok, some extra thoughts now we know your group (keep in mind, I am not very familiar with the other classes, so my opinion might not be very accurate).
    Spoiler: Spoilered due to length
    Show

    1) Firstly, monk's stunning strike will pair well with effects that target dex (and str) saves. So, make sure to grab disintegrate when you hit sorcerer 11 (3 levels from now, so this is one for the future). This will guarantee that the disintegrate will land (as stunned targets automatically fail dex saves). You might even want to quicken that disintegrate when up against a very strong enemy with high AC, so that you will have time to cast BB/GFB with you action and take advantage of the ....advantage (that stunned targets bestow) to land a hit stacked with a smite (against, this last bit might be a good idea only if against very strong opponents which also have a high AC).


    2) Now, lets talk about buffing. A lot here will be determined by how your party's rogue plays. Is he a melee oriented arcane trickster (who uses twf, or even better, booming blade)? Or is he sticking to a (cross)bow?

    a) If it's the former (ie melee rogue), you can safely drop haste from your spell selection.
    Haste can still be useful for melee rogues and for monks, as it allows a ''free'' disengage, which means that the twf rogue gets to maximize his chances to land sneak attack by not using his bonus action to disengage, and it also means the monk gets to save some ki points, but I'll go right ahead and assume that the arcane trickster uses BB -if melee- and that the monk has taken the mobile feat; I'am assuming optimized teammates, that is. If this is not the case (ie optimized teammates), haste can still be of value, but emmm.... it would be better for the arcane trickster to use BB -again, assuming a melee approach on his part- and for the monk to already be mobile by taking the mobile feat. So in this case (melee arcane trickster), you stick with greater invisibility. Also twin it, it's expensive but it's pretty much worth it (afterall, that's why you picked this metamagic).

    * (greater invisibility and tanking)
    Obviously the rogue is the first candidate for greater invisibility. The other recipient of greater invisibility (for when you twin it), ideally should be you (pair it with BB and with movement that does not trigger OA's since you are invisible), as you are the main tank (cleric can fight in range, monk is -hopefully- very mobile to create some distance after he attacks, rogue is invisible and probably also hiding using his bonus action to do so at the end of each of his turns). Pair the disadvantage from greater invisibility along with your good base AC and with shield reactions if absolutely necessary (saying absolutely necessary, as shield competes with BB OA's for your reaction, and besides BB OA's you dont have many things to impose crowd control with), and you'll make an incredible AC tank. But.... tank too well, and there is the danger that the DM will have the enemies ignore you and run for your squishier teammates. Other than using a booming blade reaction (since warcaster), doing so with advantage (greater invisibility), and dealing a good amount of damage (due to triggering the secondary effect of BB too), you have no way to make sure your enemies will focus on you, other than DM's discretion and willing to play along with this stratey (ie you are the tank, so most monsters have to target you). If the DM is all about making things hard for you and/or using advanced tactics with the enemies (eg why would an enemy try to fight an invisile tanky opponent when he can go for his squishy allies?), then you might be into some trouble, if you aim to be the second target affected by greater invisibility that is. Also, make note, that aside from booming blade enhanced opportunity attacks, you have no way to guarantee the enemies will focus on you and not run after allies (and even that is nothing but some very soft control), and even those BB OA's wont be available when you use your reaction to shield yourself. So, if your DM plays hard, there are two ways to go about this. Either dont be one of the targets of greater invisibility (so target the rogue and the monk with it, or the rogue and the cleric; preferably the monk, especially if he doesn't take the mobile feat -though he still should-), or... take a 3rd level in paladin, oath of the crown (to get the channel divinity champion's challenge). By RAW, champion's challenge works with you being invisible, as the requirement is for just you too see the targets affected by champion's challenge. The DM might have a different idea about this (ie champion's challenge while invisible), depending on how he interprets stealth and invisibility (a long conversation.....). Though you could ''roleplay'' around it and have your character shouting insults and/or provocations to the enemies affected by champion's challenge, to ''justify'' how the enemies know your character's exact location and thus cannot (will not want to -from an in game angle) move further than 30 feet from you. If crown doesn't cut it for you or your DM though, your best bet is to stick with buffing with greater invisibility only your allies and not yourself (that again, is if your DM wont have the enemies focus on you out of his sheer kindness).

    b) If it's the latter (rogue fights from range), then you have enough reasons to stick with haste, assuming the archer rogue and the DM dont object to a certain amount of cheese. You see, the arcane trickster archer rogue, can have his familair (owl, with fly-by) generate them advantage (so no much point in greater invisibility for them), and what's more, they can exploit haste in an admittedly cheesy, yet effective way. That is, that the rogue will use his haste-given action to attack during their turn (advantage from the familiar), and they will use their action to ready an attack which they will make during their off-turn (specifying a suitable trigger). Remember, sneak attack damage is once per round, not ince per turn, so they get to deal all their sneak attack damage again with that readied attack. Eventually, the rogue will manage to get haste as one of their spells (at level 14), at which point you can feel free to stop using haste with your concentration, and even drop it from your list of known spells and replace it with something else. Though, this again is something for the future. Keep this in mind though, as if this is to become reality at some point (ie the archer rogue getting haste, and you dropping it from your spell list), then that opens up a possibility for you to use concentration spell for things other han buffing (so think really hard on your choice of the 3rd metamagic that you'll pick at sorcerer 10).

    *A note about haste and concentration.
    Losing concentration on haste hurts (as whoever was affected becomes stunned for a turn). And it hurts double if you have twinned it and then lose concentration on it. Now, you concentration is as good as it can reasonably get, still, there are some enemies with particular strong attacks out there (such as a dragon's breath), that can make you lose concentration easily enough. When up against such enemies prefer to rely on spells other than haste for your concentration, such as something as simple as bless. My point is, dont get carried away by how effective haste can look to be, always take into account the potential drawback, and always try to use it safely/smartly.


    3) No one of your allies has counterspell (the AT could get it at 14, but there are better options for them, such as haste; and besides, you can make better use of counterspell, since you have more and also highr level spell slots -counterspell can take advantage of high level slots). So you pick it. Make enough room in your spell list and start with it.

    At most tables I assume counterspell plays out like at mine; that is, the DM says something like ''that enemy casts fireball'' and then a player yells ''COUNTERSPELL'', so that means that if you have some a good OoG knowledge of spells, you'll always know which slot is best to use with counterspell. However, it might be possible that the DM wont let you know which spell is being cast, so that makes it more of a gumble if you will upcast it or not. Then again, even if this is the case, you'll almost always want to upcast it to prevent an enemy escape using magic (use a 7th level counterspell to negate a teleport with 100% chance, etc). Say goodbye to reoccuring villains! That might of course cause the DM's wrath, so temper it with rile life wisdom...
    In some cases, a DM could allow an arcana check to figure out what spell an enemy is using (not sure if this is RAW, but I've seen it done), so in that case pick arcana as one of your skills. You wont ace it, but proficiency will help (now that I think of it, pick it anyway if no one else has it).


    4) You are supposed to be the main tank character. If tanking seems to be too hard of a job for your character, you might want to look at taking 1 level in warlock. An extra slot per short rest to use with shield is no joke, but the real prize is armor of agathys, which if you get, you will want to use with your higher level spell slots. I advise doing so after you hit sorcerer 11 (when you'll get disintegrate and mass suggestion, preferably, as then you'll have even higher level spell slots for armor of agathys to take advantage of), but you might want to rush that warlock level, if battles get too hard for your character. I advise patience (ie getting to sorcerer 11 first), and I also advise against a 2nd level in warlock (if you decide to take at least one level in warlock in the first place, that is). Now mattter how tempting a 2nd level in warlock might look, I think you have more benefits by fosusing on your sorcerer progression (for more sp and getting access to higher level spells).


    5) I am not sure how much a light cleric can offer in the AoE department, but I dont think all that much (I know they get fireball, but dont know much else). It might be a good idea for you to have at least one non-fire AoE. When you hit sorcerer 9, means that you can take cone of cold. Till then, it might be good to have a look at errupting earth (which becomes all more good if you upcast it - still, eventually you might want to replace it with cone of cold though). Besides damage, it offers a small deal of crowd control, which you could take advantage of using BB somtimes (hard to put it in words, but at the cost of a few opportunity attacks, you can have a whole bunch of enemies lose their turn, and all that works since you have a very mobile group stocked with decent/good ranged options).

    6) Without aura of protection (and it might be better not to have it in your case, as you have a very mobile group which will theoritically not be within 10 feet of you most of the time), your saves and the saves of your allies will be less protected. For that reason, it might be good to talk your cleric into preparing spells like restoration/ greater restoration/ freedom of movement/ etc (generally, spells that protect your from conditions and can get rid of conditions affecting you).

    That's all I can currently think of, but I am sure there must be many other combinations of stuff that you and your party can pull off. Your teammates will probably have ton of their own ideas (as each one will approach things from a different angle probably, since they play different classes), so you can sit with them and discuss strategy if they are into it. Even if they are not, they'll certainly have a couple of ideas of their own, which might allow you to see better potential in your tactics. Keep in mind that actual play can prove wrong things that look good on paper, so adjust things according to your own gut and experience. And try to think of the bigger picture (meaning to prioritize things that work better overall for the group, over things that would make you the absolute damage dealer for example, at the expense of overall efficiency -that is if you like playing strategically).




    Quote Originally Posted by Grennig View Post
    Thanks so much for your informative post, Corran! I think I'll start 11/3 and then continue on with sorcerer after that. Maybe grab a 1 level dip of warlock at some point for the cha to damage on fire and radiant spells.
    Your welcome.
    One last thing. With all that auras, and since the radius is only 10 feet, that means that the horde of your melee allies will want to stick close to you. That will definitely earn you some AoE's (yay!!!! em..... ahem.... I meant, nay....?!). If these AoE are spells, you might want to remind you lore wizard that they can extend the range of their counterspell using alchemical casting.
    Last edited by Corran; 2017-05-28 at 09:12 AM.
    Hacks!

  3. - Top - End - #423
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Thumbs down Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    I haven't play-tested this, it's completely theory crafting at this point, but how about a dual wielding paladin?

    Vhuman, take two weapon fighting at level 1.

    The build is paladin 6 (take warcaster at 4), and you have the choice of going sorcerer (or bard) 14, or you can add 1 (dual wielding fighting style; STR or DEX to each off-hand attack), 2 (action surge), or 3 (EK for an extra spell level or champion for twice as many crits).

    I personally favor 3 levels of champion because you're already going to be getting one more attack than any other paladin with your off-hand attack, and with 3 attacks, and having a chance at a critical doubled for each one, your smites are going to be off the charts. You're still doing well with action surge though.

    Again, this is all theory crafting on my part. I haven't tried this out (but I do want to).

  4. - Top - End - #424
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    In general - and note: in my honest opinion - I find the idea of a dex-based paladin multiclassing dumb, especially if played by the book (= requiring str 13, cha 13). While I don't see a problem with playing a single-classed dex-based paladin, going multiclass with the requirements is like literally shooting yourself in the foot in various different ways.

    No offense meant in any direction.
    Haha. You're not wrong, but I think you should at least consider the alternate perspective. From an optimization perspective, the Dex sorcadin is extremely suboptimal. But, from a fun perspective, it opens a lot of doors to things like a sneaky paladin, or an unarmored paladin(due to Draconic Sorc AC). It's not optimal by any stretch, but I'd argue it is at least viable.

    A Human(var) can pull a 13/16/12/8/8/16, or 13/16/14/8/9/14.

    It's certainly suboptimal, but depending on which way you lean it can still work pretty well. Actually, if you go 13/16/12/8/8/16, you can drop 2 levels in Rogue and Cunning Action every turn so you can settle for a little less durability than normal. Or you can do something tricky like a Goblin Paladin running around light and dodgy.

    So yeah, it's suboptimal as all hell, but it remains viable and opens a lot of doors to some fun stuff that isn't typical.

  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Here are two more builds I'd like to share.

    Granted, they are not fully optimized (not even close), and I even used material that the guide has not included yet (namely the last version of the favored soul and the phoenix sorcerous origins). I did talk a bit about my optimization ideas under the optimization sub-spoiler in the phoenix's case (since this is an optimization guide afterall), though these ideas might be somewhat underdeveloped as I am still not very familiar with this origin (ie phoenix), so I suggest you take everything with a grain of salt.
    (I guess this is mostly about thematic builds, rather than fully optimized ones)

    Spoiler: Longsword 20 (No Oath, Phoenix)
    Show
    Concept: Longsword + Shield
    Class: Paladin 2 / Sorcerer (Phoenix) 18
    Race: Tiefling
    Final HP: 10 + d10 + 18d6 + 2x20 = 118
    Final AC: 21 (Plate + Shield + Defense), +5 with the shield spell (Reaction)
    Start Stats: STR 15, DEX 10, CON 13, INT 9, WIS 10, CHA 17
    Final Stats: STR 16, DEX 10, CON 14, INT 9, WIS 10, CHA 18
    Feats: Warcaster, Resilient (CON), Elemental adept (fire)
    Fighting Style: Defense

    Spoiler: Spell List
    Show
    Paladin
    Level 1: Searing smite
    (You can also prepare 5 more paladin 1st level spells in addition to the above every day)

    Sorcerer
    Cantrips: Green-Flame Blade, Firebolt, Create Bonfire, Control Flames, Booming Blade, Minor Illusion
    Level 1: Burning Hands, Shield
    Level 2: Scorching Ray, Aganazzar's Scorcher, Pyrotechnics
    Level 3: Fireball
    Level 4: Wall of Fire
    Level 5: Immolation
    Level 6: Investiture of Flame, Mass Suggestion
    Level 7: Delayed Blast Fireball, Firestorm
    Level 8: Incendiary Cloud
    Level 9: Meteor Swarm, Wish

    Racial Spells (they do not expend spell slots)
    Thaumaturgy, Hellish Rebuke (cast as a 2nd level spell), Darkness

    * Fire spells are marked in red.

    Spell Slots: 4(1st) 3(2nd) 3(3rd) 3(4th) 3(5th) 2(6th) 1(7th) 1(8th) 1(9th)
    Sorcery Points: 18

    Metamagic
    Quickened Spell... for obvious reasons, though the idea is to quicken blast spells.
    Empowered Spell... to be used with AoE's (some lack of synergy between this and elemental adept).
    Extended Spell... to be used with delayed blast fireball, combo'd with a successful mass suggestion (DM's discretion).
    [Pick one more metamagic of your choice]


    Spoiler: Build Concept
    Show

    Spell rationale
    First of all, with the exception of flame arrows, I picked every single fire spell I could get my hands on with this build, even some veeery suboptimal choices. Why? Because the theme of this build can be explained in 3 simple words: ''BURN THEM ALL!!!!''

    After every fire spell and cantrip was picked, I completed my spell list with some fairly self-explanatory choices: Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Shield, Mass Suggestion and Wish.

    An note on mass suggestion: I consider this spell to be so good, that I would never consider a sorcadin build featuring less than 11 sorcerer levels from an end build perspective. Besides, it may allow a funny combination with delayed blast fireball.

    ps: If apart from flame arrows there are any fire spells or cantrips I didnt include, it was because I missed them.


    Race Rationale
    The race is tiefling because that's how I envision the Mad King (from GoT) in a D&D setting, and frankly, because tieflings are my favourite race. Also, because this build brings back to my memory an old beloved character I played (tiefling hybrid paladin/swordmage with a fixation on fire; yes, I played 4e ). Why the boring PHB version and not a SCAG or the abyssal tiefling? Simple, I wanted another fire spell in hellish rebuke! Cant have enough of them fire spells!

    I really wanted to make this a dex-based build, but even with a dex tiefling version, but I found it incredibly difficult to pull it off, given this combination of race and split. (Wont go into details)


    Split (2/18) rationale
    Basically because I wanted to get my hands on all the firepower available from the sorcerer's spell list, from the lowly burning hands, all the way up to meteor swarm!

    But why not a paladin 3/ sorcerer 17 split (oh believe me, a 3rd level in oathbreaker would rock this build!)?
    Or a paladin 2/ warlock 1/ sorcerer 17 split, for the infamous (and horribly designed if I may add) undying light warlock?

    Well, in the warlock's case, because I found armor of agathys (which I find to be the main benefit) to difficult to justify in this kind of build (fire, fire, fire!!!), but generally, because I wanted that 18th level phoenix sorcerer origin feature, the Form of the Phoenix.

    Mind you, it wasn't about the resistance to all damage. Neither was it for the cool fly effect. It was because of how it adds so much damage and makes Phoenix Spark so devastating (and dangerous at the same time) to use!
    You see, phoenix spark (the 6th level phoenix feature), is my favourite ability of the phoenix sorcerer. I am not saying it's the best one, just the one I like the most. So I couldnt pass up on the upgrade that the ''capstone'' (ie phoenix form) offers to it. When I go ''boom'' I want the flames to burn most hot, I want my enemies incinarated, I want to do it just like that Deathknight that exploded(wtf?!!) upon receiving the killing blow from my 9th level paladin, ending in claiming my character's life too, back in 3e.

    That's why 2/18.


    Stats and feat rationale
    Foregoing aura of protection has an unfortunate domino effect on our build.
    Even forgetting the boost to our nearby allies for a moment, losing aura of protection means:
    1) Worse DEX saves.
    2) Worse WIS saves.
    3) Worse CON saves.
    4) And as a consequent result of the previous point, worse concentration.
    (STR saves are not that few, but it is usually not that terrible failing in them, CHA and INT saves are very few in number, but all in all the decrease in ll these 3 saves is not that terrifying)

    All of 1-4 are very important things for a frontliner like us. So, I think it would be a bad choice (from an optimization perspective) to drop both DEX & WIS by 2 points each, just to boost CON by 2 points. Saves and skills (perception) aside, it is also initiative that gets hurt, and since I have no free feats with which to take alert, I simply wouldnt want to drop my initiative even lower, especially since going always last wont play well with our AoE potential (since it's always best to blast when allies are not in the area you are blasting, and before the monsters moving and scattering). So, instead of going with a 15 CON, 8 DEX, 8 WIS, I decided that it is far more optimal to go with a 13 CON, 10 DEX, 10 WIS.

    Now lets talk a bit about concentration (and con saves). If you see Gastronomie's analysis on the ''taking both resilient CON and warcaster'' spoiler, you'll easily understand that while a warcaster sorcadin with aura of protection does not really have to take resilient CON to make his concentration checks viable, a sorcadin without aura of protection should in fact take both of these feats (ie warcaster and resilient con). With the exception of a 3/17 (devotion or vengeance/ first version FS) GWM, that is. If we dont take both, warcaster wont be enough on its own (ie w/o aura of protection) to keep our concentration running for a long time. Besides, CON saves are the most important saves in the game, and warcaster does nothing for them. And we dont have aura of protection to boost them, so resilient CON becomes even more mandatory. Warcaster is also mandatory for the extra reason that without extra attack we are forced to be S&B. So, the conclusion seems fairly obvious to me. We need to take both warcaster and resilient CON (warcaster first, resilient somewhere along the way). Besides, resilient also helps us with our stats, since it allows for a better DEX/WIS score, but that's just a coincidental (yet very important) benefit.

    The tiefling gets us a +2 CHA, but no STR bonus. To make the best of that, and since our feats are numbered, we need to start with a STR 15 and CHA 17, and using an ASI to bring these up by 1 point each, thus making them STR 16 and CHA 18.

    With all these fire spells I chose to pick, elemental adept (fire) becomes a very crucial pick too (granted, not optimized sorcadin would focus that much on just one damage type, so it is logical to assume that regardless of oaths and sorcerous origins, no optimal sorcadin would ever focus that much on a particular damage type and end up taking this feat. But under the suboptimal strategy I followed (pick all fire spells), elemental adept immediately becomes a must have. (Suffice to say that an optimized S&B phoenix sorcadin would mix it up damage type wise a bit more, and instead of the elemental adept feat he would use an ASI for a maximum 20 in charisma.)


    Metamagic rationale
    Not much to say here. Quickened is obvious. Empower is semi-obvious since we have that many AoE spells (and also lacking good candidates for careful, twinned and heightened). And extended spell, well it is for just a niche combination of delayed blast fireball with mass suggestion, that maybe requires some cooperation on the DM's part, and which will be explained in the following section.


    Tactics
    Now, with that many suboptimal choices in term of spell and race selection, quite possibly split selection too (but it's mainly the spells I chose that hinder us), I wont be going very analytical about tactics. It's not that we are completelly devoid of good combos and synergies, but everything we can do, a more optimized phoenix sorcadin can do better. So I guess I will leave strategy analysis for the optimization section/ sub-spoiler, which is a bit down below. For now, let me just delve a bit more to one combination of spells and metamagic that I've already mentioned a couple of times already. It is not that great, and far from an optimal use of resources (and makes for a very bad use of the mass suggestion spell under normal circumstances), but it can create for a very fun effect (if your character is into burning people and explosions). So....

    Cast mass suggestion on a group of people. Have them gather close, and preferably around the light spell you are about to cast, but warn them not to touch that light because... (make an excuse; deception proficiency reccomended). Profess you want to tell them a story, or recite them a poem about how awesome fire is, or whatever you think makes sense with the situation at hand. Cast delayed blast fireball speding 1 sorcery point to extend its duration to 2 minutes. Make sure to be outside its radius of 20 feet by the countdown's end. Then, start rolling a total of 31d6 damage of pure awesome (=fire), that will affect every one of the affected by your mass suggestion targets (up to 12 enemies, that is).

    Granted, this will probably work better out of combat, and it is by no means a good use of resources (unless perhaps in some very edge cases which I cannot begin to imagine), and the DM might get you if he has any of the affected by your mass suggestion enemies recognize delayed blast fireball for the spell it is (though if the enemy cant cast and hasnt seen the spell, I would say that it is difficult for him to consider it a dangerous spell based on its effect/ appearance before the spell deals any damage (though you might want to find a good way to have the enemies avoid to touch the ''light'', while not creating suspicion -again, good deception very helpfull). But all in all, this can lead to some very funny moments.

    Kevin (DM): ''Did you use both a 6th and a 7th level spell, to just kill 12 innocent villagers?''
    You: ''Yeah. And 1 sorcery point too...''
    Teammate: ''Waffle!''
    You: ''Total waffle!''


    Or..... If you want to draw away suspicion, without even depending, or depending less on a deception check, you can have your character stay inside the radius of delayed blast fireball the whole time, and just 1 turn before it goes off, cast on yourself investiture of flame! You immediately lose concentration on delayed blast fireball, but you dont mind being inside the blast, since you now have fire immunity! Incinarate every one of those unfortunate 12 villagers, while pulling off a Daenerys stunt at the same time! I dont like Daenerys much, but I have to admit, doing a Daenerys stunt is pretty awesome.
    (RAW: Maybe the delayed blast fireball goes off the moment you start casting investiture of flame, and thus you dont have fire immunity when the explosion happens, but meh... if you can convince your DM to let you pull this off, do it! It's not like you are trying to beat the game, as this is still a fairly suboptimal strategy, so most reasonable DM's would probably let you get away with it I guess. But a DM very strict with RAW might not...)


    Spoiler: Fluff & refluff(?)
    Show

    Did you ever want to play that zealot paladin with a fixation on fire and on burning heretics and witches? Then the phoenix origin might lend you a hand with that. And look, you dont even need a torch to do the purging, you have ignite (God's gift!) to start the fire for those unbelievers waiting to be burned at the stake. (Refluffing bits here and there might be required of course)


    Ok, in the most part I talked about fluff in the build concept, but here I would like to make some additional mentions, specifically for some of our spells, and as well as to provide some suggestions for refluffing a few of our options, and perhaps a few others that we did not include. DM's permission necessary, of course.


    Now, most fire spells are pretty self-explanatory, but I would like to draw your attention on just a couple of our spells (in case you dont remember their description and/or effect). Perhaps one of these will tempt you to pick them up even when you want to play an optimal build, despite them being suboptimal spells (dont underestimate the cool effect).
    1) The first one is investiture of flame, that was described a bit at the very end of the previous spoiler. Basically, the Daenerys effect (unburnt)! You might just want to be a dragonborn for this ...
    Spoiler: .... or not....
    Show
    (what colour? RED of course!), so that you stand in front of a red dragon and dare him to fry you with his breath. Coming out of it unharmed, and saying ''Fire cannot kill a dragon''. Then again, if you are playing a dragonborn, why aren't you a draconinc sorcerer (you can still pick this spell), and why are you wearing your equipment when you dare the dragon to breathe its fire on you (believe me, the DM will probably first use damage for equipment if you try to pull off something like this), and if you are not wearing your gish-appropriate equipment, why are you standing in front of a dragon? And besides, that line (''fire cannot kill a dragon''), doesnt really play all that well to the dnd universe, now, does it?
    I say stick with tieflings. Phoenix tieflings > Phoenix dragonborns.


    2) Immolation, is a bad spell. A VERY bad spell.... But have your read its description??? Please go ahead and do!



    Refluff
    How about asking your DM to allow your smites to do fire damage instead of radiant? Radiant damage is considered more optimal than fire in general (as less creatures resist it), so any reasonable DM would allow you to do it, if you agreed to have smites not be affected by anything you get that boosts fire damage rolls. A very kind DM might even let you do that too (ie boost fire-based smite rolls with bonus damage from the phoenix perks), but that would be a mistake IMO.

    How about picking disintegrate instead of immolation, and asking the DM to allow you to apply the fluff of immolation for disintegrate. A reasonable DM would still let you keep the damage to be of the force type, as far as mechanical purposes are concerned (treat it as a special brand of fire that does not get resisted), but still fluff it and describe it however else you want (enter immolation fluff).

    These are the first two examples that come to mind. Same ecould be done with BB, or with any other number of spells, assuming you and the DM see eye to eye regarding this sort of refluffing (and assuming you find a balanced and tasteful way to go about it). That could perhaps allow you to pick more optimal spells, while also keeping the fiery theme.


    Spoiler: Optimization
    Show

    TL;DR: I have a summary at the end, scroll down to see it.

    Looking at the phoenix sorcerous origin, it's easy to see that all of its features make a good fit to a gish character. But let me tell you, that this first glance can prove to be bery misleading, and that there are many pitfalls we should be aware of, regarding how to best apply the phoenix features. To give a quick example, phoenix spark combines very awkwardly with the paladin auras (be it aura of protection, devotion, warding, courage, what have you), as on one hand the auras demand from your allies to be close to profit from them, while phoenix spark (or at least the explosion effect) does not favor from having lots of allies (or any ally) closeby. So, my first instinct is to say that the phoenix origin is probably not a good choice for sorcadins who are looking to grab 6 or more paladin levels.

    The most defining (for a gish) phoenix feature, IMO, is mantle of flame. Not only because we get it at an early level and because every other phoenix feature (save nourishing fire) keys off of it, but also because it provides the most substancial benefits for a character that operates on the frontline (ie they hit you = they take damage). Moreover, it allows you to deal extra damage on top of fire damage dice, which pretty much locks our best melee attacking option at GFB, for at least when mantle of fire is on.
    (I find the potential alternative of extra attack + elemental weapon to not be worth the investment, especially since how the paladin auras conflict with phoenix spark.)

    Remark: Personally, since we have strong reason not to go for the auras and for the extra attack, I believe that we have lost the biggest reason to play a sorcadin (since auras are what they are, and since if you want to smite to go nova -which is the only reason that you should care about smiting-, not having the extra attack cuts down in half our nova potential), and I would probably build a phoenix sorcerer gish with no paladin levels at all. Dont get me wrong, phoenix sorcadins are still sorcadins, and sorcadins are great. But if we are to make the best use of a sorcadin's features, we are not making the best use of the phoenix features, and vice-versa. But since this is a sorcadin guide, I'll proceed to optimize assuming that paladin levels have to be picked, and I'll go ahead and drop them to a minimum (either 2 or 3 paladin levels that is, probably just 2 though).

    Now lets take a look at nourishing fire (phoenix 14). This feature can work betterr for a gish than a pure sorcerer, assuming the gish can manage to incorporate some fire spells (that spend spell slots, so no cantrips and racial spells) into their combat sequence. With the auto-attack being locked with GFB (a cantrip, hence no nourishing fire from it), we can either quicken fire spells, or we can find a fore spell that we can use with our reaction. Grabbing spells like scorching ray (that are typically bad choices for every other sorcadin), can be good in that respect. Also, since we missed on extra attack and thus the ability to double smite, such single target fire damage spells (like scorching ray) can help us up our nova potential, and bring it closer to the nova potential of a sorcadin who has extra attack. But as I said, this costs sorcery points, apart from spell slots. So we might want to find a second way to use in order to proc nourishing fire (which should not be underestimated for a gish), preferably one that does not spend sorcery points (spell slots must still be spent because nourishing fire keys off from spell slots spent). There is where hellish rebuke comes in...

    We can grab hellish rebuke either by taking a 3rd level in paladin (oathbreaker), thus ending as pal3/sorc17, or by taking one level in warlock. Naturally, hellish rebuke competes with the spell shield for our reaction. But that's easy to figure out. When up against many opponents it will typically be preferable to use shield, and when up against a bg bad (or against something that needs to die pronto) we will use hellish rebuke. They also compete for slots, since they are both 1st level spells. That's easy to deal with too. We should avoid using hellish rebuke with a 1st level spell slot, as those are reserved to be used with the shield spell (upcasting hellish rebuke has a small benefit, upcasting shield has no benefit).
    [I'll explain later why I believe the warlock dip to be better than a 3rd level in oathbreaker.]

    Note: Spells like investiture of flame might at first seem like good choices in order to profit from nourishing fire, but they are not. That's because nourishing fire will restore hp only when a spell slot is spent. Once per spell cast, that is.


    Let me make a point about defenses.
    Obviously we are going S&B, so that means a shield. But AC should not be the prime, or at least the only focus of our defense. You see, when mantle of flame is on, we kind of want to get hit, so that the enemy will take some damage. Well, we dont really want to get hit, but when mantle of flame is active, we will want to tank more with our HP than with our AC. The ideal scenario for when mantle of flame is active, is to not use shield with our reaction, but instead allow the enemy their normal chance to hit us, thus taking fire damage from mantlre of fire, and also using our reaction wit hellish rebuke to deal some extra damage and restore some HP (nourishing fire) at the same time. Of course, the more hp we have, the better this strategy will work, and this is the reason why I consider the warlock level mandatory, so that we will get armor of agathys*. Armor of agathys is great, especially when used with a high level slot. In fact it is more than great; it is superb! One of the best tools any gish could have at its disposal.
    When mantle of flame is not active (remember, it's 1/day), then you can fall back to using shield with your reaction and relying to an exceptional AC for tanking (the warlock dip will give you additional 1st level slots so there is that too, you'll hardly miss out on slots to use shield with, just dont use them when you use mantle of fire, then you use hellish rebuke with your reaction).

    * For the same reason I think that stoneskin is unusually good for a phoenix gish, at least for when we use mantle of flame.



    SUMMARY
    1) Sorcadins do not make the best use out of the phoenix sorcerous origin.
    2) If going with a phoenix sorcadin however, aim for a small paladin dip (2-3 levels, depending on the following points).
    3) 1 level in warlock is very much worth it (almost mandatory), for both armor of agathys and hellish rebuke: (pal2/wrl1/sorc17).
    4) If you dont want to take 1 warlock level for whatever reason, go for a 3rd paladin level in oath of conquest (to get armor of agathys, though you lose hellish rebuke as a classs spell that expends slots and thus combines with nourishing fire), or go for a 3rd level in oathbreaker, which will get you hellish rebuke and some very important channel divinities (emphasis on how awesome dreadful aspect is; avoid using dreadful aspect along with mantle of flame**).
    5) GFB is your go-to attack option. Important spells include but are not limited to: hellish rebuke, armor of agathys, fireball, scorching ray (for extra nova and for extra triggers on nourishing fire).
    6) Never use hellish rebuke with your 1st level spell slots. Those are reserved for shield.
    7) When mantle of flame is on, dont use the shield spell, instead use hellish rebuke with your reaction. Also always have an upcasted armor of agathys on when you use mantle of flame. That means, that you should follow the following strategy to the letter, if you want to be optimal: Mantle of flame + armor of agathys + hellish rebuke (reaction, ie dont use the shield spell) + GFB (+ quickened scorching ray/ burning hands/ aganazzar's scorcher if necessary) stoneskin.
    8) Stoneskin (perhaps extended spell as your 3rd metamagic choice in this case) might be a very good use of your concentration for when you use mantle of flame, once you hit the mid levels, when your gold will allow you to manage its component cost and also when you will be in a better position to rely on armor of agathys (higher level spell slots).


    ** If oathbreaker instead of having the warlock level, you want have AoA, so you taje that out of the above strategy, but the important thing is NOT to use dreadful aspect with mantle of flame (assuming more than 1 encounter per day). Save dreadful aspect and shield for fighting mobs, leave mantle of flame (and everything that goes with it, as per the above strategy, for when fighting a boss).

    ---------
    Of course, optimization does not end here. I could go on and say which are the optimal uses for your concentration and which metamagic you should choose when taking up this origin. Also, which feats you should aim that, and probably examine a bit closer if a tiefling and the flame of phlegethos UA racial feat for tieflings, are good enough to consider them for optimization (over a vhuman for example).

    My final thoughts regarding this sorerous origin, is that it could potentially make a good gish if we add on it one warlock level (for armor of agathys and for helllish rebuke), but I think adding paladin levels does not have the synergy you could achieve with other sorcerous origin for a sorcadin build. So, phoenix is a mediocre prospect from the a sorcadin's perspective, IMO.

    I will instead stop my optimization thoughts here though, and I wont delve any further regarding this sorcerous origin, at least for now.
    If I have any more thoughts, I will come back to edit.










    Spoiler: Longsword 20 (Devotion, Favored Soul)
    Show

    Concept: Longsword + Shield
    Class: Paladin (Devotion) 3/ Sorcerer (Favored Soul) 17
    Race: Aasimar (DMG)
    Final HP: 10 + 2d10 + 17d6 + 2x20 = 120
    Final AC: 21 (Plate + Shield + Defense), +5 with the shield spell (Reaction)
    Start Stats: STR 15, DEX 10, CON 13, INT 9, WIS 10, CHA 17
    Final Stats: STR 16, DEX 10, CON 14, INT 9, WIS 10, CHA 18
    Feats: Warcaster, Resilient (CON), Inspiring Leader
    Fighting Style: Defense

    Spoiler: Spell List
    Show

    Racial Spells (Aasimar) -they do not expend spell slots
    Light
    Lesser restoration (1/day)
    Daylight (1/day)

    Paladin
    Level 1: Protection from good and evil*, Sanctuary*, Bless, Command, Searing Smite, Heroism
    (In addition you can prepare 1 extra 1st-lvl paladin spell every day)
    *Oath Spells

    Sorcerer
    Cantrips: Thaumaturgy, Guidance, Sacred Flame, Green Flame Blade, Booming Blade, Spare the dying
    Level 1: Shield
    Level 2: Aid, Zone of Truth
    Level 3: Spirit Guardians
    Level 4: Banishment
    Level 5: Flame Strike, Commune, Mass Cure Wounds
    Level 6: True Seeing, Mass Suggestion
    Level 7: Conjure Celestial, Divine Word
    Level 8: Holy Aura
    Level 9: Wish, True Resurrection


    Spell Slots: 4(1st), 3(2nd), 3(3rd), 3(4th), 3(5th), 1(6th), 1(7th), 1(8th), 1(9th)
    Sorcery Points: 17


    Metamagic
    Quicken is mandatory as always.
    Subtle is important for some rp potential/ fluff reasons, that will be analyzed under the build concept spoiler.
    [Pick 2 more metamagic of your preference; with the spell list as is (thematic instead of optimal), I suggest heightened (banishment) and twinned (twinned BB, paired with an upcasted command), or even empowered to biff up your flamestrike.]


    Spoiler: Build Concept
    Show

    An angel is a celestial agent sent forth into the planes to further its god's agenda for weal or woe. Its sublime beauty and presence can drive awestruck onlookers to their knees. Yet angels are destroyers too, and their appearance portends doom as often as it signals hope.
    - Monster Manual, page 15


    Do you like your characters to be the most special snowflakes they can be? Did you ever think that your favourite paladin character was not important enough? Did you ever want to play that Mary-Sue character that is the son/daughter of Pelor, instead of just settling playing with just another devout worshiper?

    If the answer to the any of the above is ''yes'', then here is a build that can act as a base, or at least spark some inspiration, so that you can create the character you'll love, and whom everyone else at the table will hate (and rightfully so). From a gleaming holy sword, the ability to sense evil, conjuring a celestial mount, smiting, calling forth angelic spirits to fight for you, and so on and so forth, all the way up to getting access to spells like wish and true resurrection, you will have all the tools at your hands that will set this character apart from any cleric, paladin or sorcerer, from a flavor perspective. Let's take a look.


    Race
    Aasimar for obvious reasons, as they are the closest thing to a deva/ planetar/ solar that we have at our disposal. Went with the DMG version cause it seems the most thematic to me, but scourge would probably do just as well too.

    Aasimars get you necrotic and radiant resistance (appropriate), and they also provide you with some very thematic spells (light, lesser rrestoration, daylight) that ease our spell selection, considering how limited it is.


    Class [Paladin, Devotion 3]
    I went with 3 levels in devotion, cause that gets us most of the important fluff-related things we would want from the paladin class, at a very low cost (ie allowing as to take 17 levels in sorcerer for wish -which is terribly important to adding some final touches on the build, and a very powerful spell too -more on that later).

    Three levels of paladin get you most of the paladin's trademark features, from a fluff perspective.
    Lay on hands and divine sense, the ability to smite, some very thematic spells in bless, protection from evil, sanctuary, etc... , immunity to diseases (extremelly important if you want to pretend your character is more than a mere mortal), and of course the very flavorfull sacred weapon channel divinity.

    The only things really missing are fear immunity (ie aura of courage) but you can replicate the effects with heroism at lower levels, the paladin's mount but you will get conjure celestial to cover for that. Losing aura of protection is more of a mechanical loss rather than a flavour loss, but you will get holly aura at the later levels to make up for this.


    Class [Sorcerer, Favored Soul 17]
    Need I explain this?
    Very briefly, just the wings (EAT YOUR HEART OUR DEVOTION PALY'S WITH YOUR UNDERWHELMING CAPSTONE!) and the access to the cleric's spell list for some very thematical picks, along with access to sorcerer spells and metamagic, for eventually picking wish (which you can combine with subtle for a fine adjustment to hit the flavour you really want -see spell section below), are the most important reasons for this, from a mechanics' point of view. Plus, the whole theme has written ''Mary-Sue'' all over it and it fits our goals.

    -----------------------

    Spells
    I tried to pick spells that fit the theme of a holy warrior with a strong divine spark in them and perhaps even with a direct connection to the divine (enter diety), while also managing my selection in an effort to replicate some of the flavor of devas/ planetars/ solars and empyreans. Lets have a look.

    Wish: Since the number of spells known to use is very limited (despite the helpful additions from a couple levels of paladin ad from being an aasimar), I though wish was a necessary pick, so that we can get access to all those very thematic spells that didnt make it into our spell list (and besides, if used optimally, wish is a powerhouse). Some examples include replicating the effects of earhquake or tsunami (because angels are destroyers too), control weather (to mimic some empyrean lore: An empyrean can experience deity-like fits of serenity or rage. It can affect the environment around it by its mood. When an empyrean is unhappy, the clouds might cry tears of salt water, the wildflowers in surrounding meadows might wilt, dead fish might wash ashore in lakes or rivers, or a nearby forest might lose the leaves from its trees. When an empyrean is jubilant, sunlight follows it everywhere, small animals frolic in its footsteps, and birds fill the sky with their pleasing songs. -MM, p130), plane shift, and lots of other spells that didnt make it into our list, like sunbeam, sunburst, etc.
    Coupled with the subtle metamagic can be important flavour wise, since you will want to use the effects of most of such spells without doing all the hocus-pocus that casters do, but instead have them play out as manifestations of your will, or at the very least, as a boon that came true through Daddy. EAT YOUR HEART OUT DIVINE INTERVENTION!

    Conjure Celestial: Summon a unicorn or even better, a pegasus, and go to battle on it. Not the best use of concentration (especially considering you will have your own wings by then), but is it something more thematic than going into battle on a pegasus for this character? Admittedly, a very special mount, for a very special character... EAT YOUR HEART OUT FIND STEED.

    Holy Aura: Perhaps your strongest use of concentration, but that's why it is such a high level spell. Need I explain why it's so fitting? Just go ahead and read its description (PHB, page 251).

    Spirit Guardians: You most frequent use of concentration. Not as strong as holy aura above, but definitely no less impressive. I'll just quote a line from the spell's description. You call angelic spirits to protect you. Need I say more? A strong spell too, that you might want to upcast from time to time.

    Mass suggestion & command: Because mortals need to heed you. Fits with the favored soul fluff, and with the flavour of the character. Plus, a very very strong spell, both in combat and out of it.

    Zone of truth: It pained me to include this spell as a sorcerer (fs) pick, but I kind of have to. Planetars and Solars can always spot a lie, and we are better and more special than them, so (unfortunately) we have to pick this spell. A real shame it is not a 1st level paladin spell though...

    Divine Word & Banishment: These two along with turn the unholy channel divinity from your oath, guarantee you have the best options when fighting supernatural threats (and kick ass when fighting monsters that think they have the right to try to be as special as you are). Protection from evil and good can complement your strategy when up against such posers...

    Flame strike: Worse than fireball, but more thematic. The empowered spell metamagic might be a good pick to boost the power of such a lackluster yet very thematic pick. Besides, all those inferior planetars and solars get this spell, so why shouldn't you?
    To the same end, I included the very suboptimal searing smite as one of our prepared paladin spells (ie it matches the theme).

    True Seeing: Because everyone from the MM that tries to copy how special you are, has it. Complements good your divine sense from being a paladin.

    Commune: To speak with Dad/ Mom every now and then. Or with the rest of your friends in the astral sea.

    Mass cure wounds & Lay on hands: Restore hit points and cure diseases. This will earn you some respect among the table and the NPCs of the game world. Healing is the most classic manifestation of the divine in the dnd universe (or so I think), so you should have something in this department.

    True Resurrection: Cause some things cannot be replicated by wish. You should aim to have such a powerful spell,as it's the closest thing to a miracle.

    There are other spells and cantrips too, like bless, thaumaturgy (perfect cantrip for characters such as this one), sacred flame, etc etc, but you get the idea by now...


    Feats
    Well, warcatsre, resilient con, +1 CHA +1 STR, are purely for mechanical purposes, and quite necessary, but at least you get inspiring leader (angels signal hope), so that's that.


    Spoiler: The eeeevul version
    Show

    - You subrace changes to fallen aasimar (Volo)

    - Change oath of devotion for oathbreaker, replacing a gleaming sword (sacred weapon) for a fantastic fear effect (dreadful aspect). ''Terror is the most important weapon. Do you have it in your heart, to be terrible?'' - Book of vile darkness (movie), the Vermin Lord

    - Drop your longsword and pick up a mace, or a morningstar. Because every villain worth their salt is not playing with swords. Did you see Sauron wielding a sword? Of course not.

    - Use the evil version of spirit guardians.

    - Drop spells like true resurrection, holy aura, conjure celestial (unless you want to summon it just to kill it ), commune (settle for frustrating soliloquies full of anger and/or despair instead) and bless, and pick in their stead some of the following: animate dead (not as necessary if in high levels, so you could look to retrain this once you get access to create undead), create undead, geas (for better management of your wights, either from control undead or from create undead; heighten spell mandatory, as you dont want to fail on a 9th level geas), finger of death, bestow curse (to set up a geas or to control undead more ereliably by the homonym feature, or to use against a target for you ghouls and/ or ghasts to paralyze them more easily), wrathful smite, etc. Perhaps you could aim for the whole planar ally + magic circle + planar binding combo, of you want to force some celestials or fiends to fight for you, but that's a lot of investment as far as spells known are concerned.
    You get the idea, drop the good-y spells and pick the creepy ones instead. Other than that, most stays the same.


    Conclusion: The evil version still remains just as a special snowflake as the good version.


    Spoiler: Optimization (NOT)
    Show

    Wont find anything here. To optimize these builds, I would have to cut down a lot on the thematic choices, so I wont be doing that. Besides, the way I see it, favored soul will be published before long, so I am not eager to optimize the current version when the official version is just around the corner.
    Last edited by Corran; 2017-06-04 at 07:49 PM.
    Hacks!

  6. - Top - End - #426
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Im playing an DnD Adventures League game. Standard rules point buy system(lame) phb+1(lame) but whatever. Starting at lv one how would you approach this build? i can change everything about my character for levels 1-4 but on my first lv 5 im locked in for everything. So should i just go with something else till lv 5 or try this build from lv one and improve as i go?

  7. - Top - End - #427
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by AmpedupAmpora View Post
    Im playing an DnD Adventures League game. Standard rules point buy system(lame) phb+1(lame) but whatever. Starting at lv one how would you approach this build? i can change everything about my character for levels 1-4 but on my first lv 5 im locked in for everything. So should i just go with something else till lv 5 or try this build from lv one and improve as i go?
    It depends on whether you want to start behaving like a sorcadin early or if you'd rather play something more stable before then. In a similar situation, I chose the former and went paladin for two levels before switching to sorcerer, then staying on that for six levels before switching back to paladin for four more levels. So Pal 2>Sorc 6>Pal 4> Sorc X. This lets you play like a paladin for the first two levels, and gets you a kind of sorcadin lite at level 3, with some of its more iconic abilities (quickened and twinned SCAG cantrips with smites) by level 4.

    This route leads to some serious squishiness in the critical early stages of the game, though. Shield helps, but you don't really have enough spell slots to work it and your smites all that often. Make sure you take the defense fighting style if you go this route, you need every bit of defense you can get.

    If you'd prefer to play it safe, stay a full paladin until you get to the desired split level before taking sorcerer. At least until level 6, for safety. Naturally, if you only wanted the addition of smites and heavy armor with shields, two levels in paladin and then everything in sorcerer will suffice for your build.

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    SamuraiGuy

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    d20 Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Soooooo, when are we getting that tasty Polearm Master section of the guide? <3

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Willywilliamrtx View Post
    Soooooo, when are we getting that tasty Polearm Master section of the guide? <3
    I didn't think Polearm Master was good for Palasorc? As a Sorcerer, your bonus actions can often be spoken for when using quicken metamagic, but then again, it's not like you're using quicken every single turn.

    Maybe depends on the party, but I can't think of the case where I'd prefer it over GWM, if I was going that route.

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Reosoul View Post
    I didn't think Polearm Master was good for Palasorc? As a Sorcerer, your bonus actions can often be spoken for when using quicken metamagic, but then again, it's not like you're using quicken every single turn.

    Maybe depends on the party, but I can't think of the case where I'd prefer it over GWM, if I was going that route.
    It's okay. Thanks to Quicken Metamagic and the SCAG cantrips, it's not as big of a deal as it is with every other martial, but it does save you a few Sorcery Points at the cost of inferior damage and being unable to use your action for anything other than basic attacks if you want to benefit from it. Those are some pretty big drawbacks, but so is blasting SP in a build that gets real thirsty for them.

    The real problem is that you can't realistically combine it with Sentinel all that well because Sorcadins are also ASI starved. You'd have to give up a lot to make this work better than okay.

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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Well let's not forget the Oathbreaker's Aura of Hate here. It works better with the extra attack feature (and by extension PAM)

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    How best would one go about building a Paladin 6/Wild Magic Sorcerer 14?
    Last edited by Dr_Dinosaur; 2017-06-06 at 09:59 PM.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Thank you so much for this awesome guide !

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Dinosaur View Post
    How best would one go about building a Paladin 6/Wild Magic Sorcerer 14?
    That depends on some other factors... Are you going DEX or STR?

    Heavy armor, or CON Save proficiency?

    ...

    In most cases, I would recommend pure pally til 6, then switch for good, but if you're DX based and interested in stealth, it can be worthwhile to get that CON save proficiency and the Shield spell leading with a level of Sorcerer.

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    Question Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Hey

    First of all, awesome post! Really like the feel of this build. I want to play a longsword v. human pal 2/sorc X. Since the new Favored Soul ain't got an extra attack (and I really don't want my sorcadin to go past paladin 2) what would the "best" origin be? I'm thinking draconic for the extra hp and blasting.

    Second, is it possible to twin divine smites?

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Divine Smite is not a spell, so it cannot be Twinned (nor can any other metamagic be applied to it).

    Fire Dragon Sorcerer would give your castings of Green Flame Blade extra oomf with its level 6 ability, which helps make up for the lack of Extra Attack, so I think that it's the most common choice. The other two published origins have abilities with interesting applications in melee, but they aren't as consistently helpful.

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Rysto View Post
    Divine Smite is not a spell, so it cannot be Twinned (nor can any other metamagic be applied to it).

    Fire Dragon Sorcerer would give your castings of Green Flame Blade extra oomf with its level 6 ability, which helps make up for the lack of Extra Attack, so I think that it's the most common choice. The other two published origins have abilities with interesting applications in melee, but they aren't as consistently helpful.
    Alright, thanks!

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    This guide confused me when it talked about Mountain Dwarf boosting Wis from 8 to 10. I think this is incorrect information and might have been considered incorrectly for it's colour rating. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

    I would presume that it's the only race that'll give a total of +4 between your main ability scores. If you start as a Sorc, the armour proficiency would help up until you mutliclass into Pal. The +2 Str would help a lot with a Dex build even, so that you only only have to start with 11 Str before the racial bonus. The Dwarven Combat/Armour training get pretty much overwritten though, so that's a waste.

    For a Great Weapon build: point buy 15 str, +2 racial, then take Heavy Armour Master/Tavern Brawler instead of first ASI? not optimal but is it viable?

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by JacquesOfHearts View Post
    This guide confused me when it talked about Mountain Dwarf boosting Wis from 8 to 10. I think this is incorrect information and might have been considered incorrectly for it's colour rating. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

    I would presume that it's the only race that'll give a total of +4 between your main ability scores. If you start as a Sorc, the armour proficiency would help up until you mutliclass into Pal. The +2 Str would help a lot with a Dex build even, so that you only only have to start with 11 Str before the racial bonus. The Dwarven Combat/Armour training get pretty much overwritten though, so that's a waste.

    For a Great Weapon build: point buy 15 str, +2 racial, then take Heavy Armour Master/Tavern Brawler instead of first ASI? not optimal but is it viable?
    I mean, if you're okay being 18/8/15/8/10/15 until level 14, then sure. I think you'd be better off going +1 Str/+1 Cha instead of either of those feats. They don't scale particularly well into the higher levels, and having only +2 Charisma and +2 Constitution for most of the game is going to be a little painful.

    Of course, that's not to say its a 'bad build.' Even when not optimal, its going to be a pretty solid character.

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    What do you guys think of Empower vs Twin spell? I'm rolling up another one as a Dex based Sword n Board going Pally 2 and then Sorc 6 before I reevaluate. Twin is really amazing, but it's also super inefficient. Empower on the other hand is extremely efficient and consistently pretty good. I'm not sure which I would go with lol.

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Garresh View Post
    What do you guys think of Empower vs Twin spell? I'm rolling up another one as a Dex based Sword n Board going Pally 2 and then Sorc 6 before I reevaluate. Twin is really amazing, but it's also super inefficient. Empower on the other hand is extremely efficient and consistently pretty good. I'm not sure which I would go with lol.
    It would depend largely on what role you have in the group. If you're going to be buffing and letting your party martials do their thing, then twinned is awesome, but if you plan to blast large number of enemies (and especially you're the only one who can do so) then I'd say empowered is the plan. Twinned is a great option in all kinds of situations though - invisibility, polymorph, etc. - and it's personally my favorite metamagic, even on my current sorc/pally
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    So after playing a pure Stone Sorcerer for a bit, I'm not really sold on Mirror Image. It gets held up as a godly gish spell due to the lack of Concentration requirement, but it has a really big flaw:

    You lose an image when targeted by an attack (assuming you "make" the roll to divert the attack), not when hit. Given a STR based character is likely to have an 8 or 10 DEX, your images have an AC of 9 or 10, so they're almost certain to get hit every time.

    For example, an enemy rolls 12 to hit you. They miss against your 18 Full Plate AC, but you have to make a roll for your image. You roll 8, so the attack is redirected to an image and causes it to poof. You're now down to 2 images even though you would have avoided that attack anyways.

    A second level spell slot to avoid three attacks that you probably would have avoided anyways due to high AC seems questionable at best. Heck, I'd rather use the slot on another Shield when out of first level slots. Am I overlooking some errata or something? Wording as written it doesn't appear you can "choose" to fail the redirect roll in order to dodge the attack yourself.

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterSocrates View Post
    So after playing a pure Stone Sorcerer for a bit, I'm not really sold on Mirror Image. It gets held up as a godly gish spell due to the lack of Concentration requirement, but it has a really big flaw:

    You lose an image when targeted by an attack (assuming you "make" the roll to divert the attack), not when hit. Given a STR based character is likely to have an 8 or 10 DEX, your images have an AC of 9 or 10, so they're almost certain to get hit every time.

    For example, an enemy rolls 12 to hit you. They miss against your 18 Full Plate AC, but you have to make a roll for your image. You roll 8, so the attack is redirected to an image and causes it to poof. You're now down to 2 images even though you would have avoided that attack anyways.

    A second level spell slot to avoid three attacks that you probably would have avoided anyways due to high AC seems questionable at best. Heck, I'd rather use the slot on another Shield when out of first level slots. Am I overlooking some errata or something? Wording as written it doesn't appear you can "choose" to fail the redirect roll in order to dodge the attack yourself.
    I really wouldn't consider 18 "high AC". In your example, rolling a 12, an Ogre would hit the "real" you. That's only a Challenge 2 monster. Best case scenario, you've got Mirror Image at level 5. So this hypothetical scenario where the Ogre kills an image but would have missed you is going to come up when he rolls between a 3 and an 11. So 9/20 times. The other 11/20 times, the image is either untouched or it saves you from a hit. The majority of the time, the image is going to do it's job, and you have three of them.

    Even assuming the Ogre is the hardest hitting thing you fight by the time you get Mirror Image, the spell can be expected to mitigate 3*.55*13 damage (or about 22 damage). Compare that to other forms of non concentration damage mitigation and consider how it only gets better as enemies hit harder.

    Also you don't lose an image when targeted, only when your duplicate is hit. I think you understand this, but I want to make sure you are clear based on your bolded text.

    As an aside, the spell also gives you a 50-75% chance to negate critical hits, which occur roughly 1/20 attacks. That doesn't come up often, but when it does, it's nice.

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    @MisterSocrates: IMO mirror image is not a good tanking spell, as much as it is a good enough panic button.
    Hacks!

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus the Grim View Post
    I mean, if you're okay being 18/8/15/8/10/15 until level 14, then sure. I think you'd be better off going +1 Str/+1 Cha instead of either of those feats. They don't scale particularly well into the higher levels, and having only +2 Charisma and +2 Constitution for most of the game is going to be a little painful.

    Of course, that's not to say its a 'bad build.' Even when not optimal, its going to be a pretty solid character.
    I'm not so sure about Heavy Armor Master. It only blocks 3 physical damage, but I think that actually becomes more useful later as the number of enemies and the number of monsters with multiattack rises. Imagine a scenario when you're surrounded by, say, three enemies with three attacks each, a not-uncommon situation late game. If you're caught without slots for shield or want your reaction for something else, then the chances of them bypassing your AC thanks to how bounded accuracy scales can be pretty good. Lets say you take four hits from that- HAM now blocks 12 damage, which is pretty significant. And it's not unheard to take way more hits than that.

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Hi Gourmandie:

    Iīve just registered to post this. Iīve been trying to find a great combination for a Paladin/Sorcerer Aasimar(Volos). It all started by a quest to revive my tempest cleric, but I think Iīve created something nifty!!

    I used your guide as inspiration, and for that, you have my deep thanks. Without it, and the extensive and great insights this would not have been possible.

    Iīve made a GDOCs with the build itself, so everyone can review it, but I cannot post this as I donīt have the post counts (sorry admins!)
    https ://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16CCaXQOAisrZpgDbrJ-rtot2tS9cDR0MDvRSOn83WxU/edit?usp=sharing

    Basically, Iīve made the following combo (creating it at level 14).

    Paladin 6 Devotion / Sorcerer 7 Favored Soul / Hexblade 1

    Devotion so as to gain 2nd level paladin slots, a decent channel divinity (add cha to atk rolls) and above all Aura of Protection. Itīs the first level pick, so we get all armor, shields and weapons, as well as STs in WIS & CHA.

    I rolled the following starting stats:
    18, 16, 14, 12, 7, 6. Tricky with that 7 & 6, especially for this MAD build.

    Iīve allocated it like this:
    STR: 14
    DEX: 12
    CON: 16
    INT: 6 (Iīll get to that!)
    WIS: 7 +1(aasimar)
    CHA: 18 +2(aasimar)
    Aasimar Racials give you +2 CHA and +1 WIS as the protector subrace.

    This nets me the following:
    STR: 14+2
    DEX: 12+1
    CON: 16+3
    INT: 19+4 (Iīve acquired a headband of intellect!)
    WiS: 8-1
    CHA: 20+5

    So, the Hexblade feature:
    Hex Warrior
    At 1st level, you gain proficiency with medium armor, shields, and martial weapons. In addition, when attacking with a melee weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the twohanded property, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls.
    makes the use of STR irrelevant. So we can focus on CHA and not be feat dependent.

    This allows for 2 feats. Paladin 4 and Sorcerer 4.
    Iīve taken Warcaster as a must and Inspiring Leadership, to add an extra layer of support.

    Hexbladeīs curse is also pretty nifty:

    Hexblade's Curse
    Hexblade’s Curse Starting at 1st level, you gain the ability to place a baleful curse on an enemy. As a bonus action, choose one creature you can see within 30 feet of you. The target is cursed for 1 minute. Until the curse ends, you gain the following benefits:
    - You gain a bonus to damage rolls against the cursed target. The bonus equals your proficiency bonus.
    - Any attack roll you make against the cursed target is a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20 on the d20.
    - If the cursed target dies, you regain hit points equal to your warlock level + your Charisma modifier.
    So, we now can, per SR, to one target, crit like a champion, add +5 to each damage roll and regain HP when we kill a target! Sign me up!!

    Additionally, 1 level in Warlock gives us access to two cantrips and two warlock spells, as well as 1 spell slot that we regain each SR (helps for smite or shield). Spells Iīve picked utility, so Charm Person and Illusory Script for RP situations.

    So...for the cantrip...YES, ELDRITCH BLAST BABY! If we take one more level in Warlock, we can get Empowered (+CHA dmg) + Repelling Blast (push 10ft) which synergizes wonderfully with Booming Blade, a combo that can be pulled off with 1 sorcery point in one turn. So, 3D10 + 5D8 in one turn for 1 Sorc point. Not bad at all. It would leave us as a Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 12 / Warlock 2 (losing 7th spells) or we could even go Sorc 11 / lock 3 and unlock something else, however, weīd lose access to 7th level spells AND an ASI).

    Favored Soul Sorcerer adds something really good as well. You have access to the cleric spell list. So, Healing Word, Guidance(!!) and other nifty cleric spells are wonderful to have and synergize well with the Paladin from a Lore POV.

    Aditionally, High STīs are good, but why not add an extra 2d4 to either an attack roll or ST with the Sorcerer feature? You also get to add 1HP per Sorcerer level, similar to Draconic Resilience.

    Why not draconic you ask? Well, elemental affinity is cool, however, a lot of creatures are resistant to fire (especially fiends), so it felt a bit of a gamble to me. However, force damage / radiant damage resistance or immunity is really low across the board. Also, I just canīt really fall in love with GFB. Itīs just a bit too...situational and overly complicated for me. So, taking GFB out of the equation, thereīs no need for Fire damage to be boosted.

    With this setup you lose out on the lvl 14 sorcerer feature, alas, the favored soul is not that special (immunity to poison), considering Lay on Hands as a Paladin feature. Draconics get to fly...which is really cool, but hey, thatīs what the winged boots are for! Also, the aasimarīs radiant soul letīs you fly around...for a bit =)

    So, Iīve done a scenario:

    Round 1:
    Bonus: Quicken Haste (+1 action, AC+2, 60ft movement, dash/disengage/hide, concentration) - 2 Sorc Points
    Action: Eldritch Blast - +10 to hit - 3D10
    Action: Eldritch Blast - +10 to hit - 3D10
    Movement: Head towards the frontlines 60ft.
    Reaction: AoO - Booming Blade w/ Warcaster (potentially 5d8)


    Round 2:
    Bonus: Quicken Mirror Image (3 duplicates) - 2 Sorc Points
    Action: 2 attacks (+12 to hit, 2d8+14 if both hit) + 2 Smites (4th 5D8 & 3rd 4D8 damage)
    Action: Eldritch Blast (+10 to hit, 3D10)
    Reaction: AoO - Booming Blade w/ Warcaster (potentially 5d8)

    Round 3:
    Bonus: Hexblade Curse
    Action: 2 attacks (+12 to hit, 2d8+14+10 w/ curse if both hit) + 2 Smites (2nd 3D8 & 1st 2D8 damage)
    Action: Eldritch Blast (+10 to hit, 3D10+5 w/ curse)
    Reaction: AoO - Booming Blade w/ Warcaster (potentially 5d8)

    Round 4:
    Action: 2 attacks (+12 to hit, 2d8+14+10 if both hit)
    Action: Eldritch Blast (+10 to hit, 3D10+5)
    Reaction: AoO - Booming Blade con Warcaster (potentially 5d8)

    Round 5:
    Repeat 4 and keep it up.

    ----

    A total of 13d10 eldritch, 6d8+42 attacks, 14d8 smites, 35 damage from the curse. Thatīs 254 total/4 (using averages), so 63.5 damage per turn up to turn 4, provided everything hits. After that itīs a steady 3d10+2d8+14+15 (57!) per turn without using slots, as long as you maintain haste.

    You would have AC 24 (Full plate, shield, defense style, cloak of protection, haste) since turn 2 & 3 duplicates to not get hit.
    If you get hit, you have advantage due to Warcaster and +9 CON STs. Worst case, cast Shield and get up to 29(!!!!) AC

    After all of that, we remain with the following resources for our next encounter:
    3 sorcery points (1 more quicken, or a twinned haste)
    4 1st slots (Bless, Protection from evil, healing word, shield)
    1 2nd slot (Mirror image or Misty step)
    1 3rd slot (Haste)
    1 4th slot (Greater invis)
    2 5th slots (to use any of the ones below)

    Keeping in mind we have the flexible spellcasting trait, which makes this build so juicy.

    You still would have your Aasimar racial feature available (radiant soul), which allows for +14 extra radiant damage per turn, 30ft flying speed for 1 minute, so on your next encounter you can fly around smiting radiantly without spending slots.

    Also, Lay on Hands and Healing Touch have not been used. So we still have a 44 HP healing potential.

    I have NOT playtested this yet. I will update once I have, but ON PAPER, this looks pretty good. Itīs a decent damage dealing tank. You can potentially expand damage a bit further with some AC loss for a GWM build. Which Iīve toyed with as well (you can see it in the gdocs=, but it does NOT synergize with the Hexblade due to the "two-handed" limitation and the "heavy" limitation on the GWM feat. So itīs not viable with a longsword. My DM would allow a Sunblade as a greatsword for this adventure, so hence the +2, but a Greatsword +2 would be equivalent.

    Please, let me know if you feel this could use improvement, or if I have overlooked something that does not make this build viable.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Stefantasma; 2017-06-30 at 07:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    So I'm playing a dex paladin, and I thought I'd mention something. Dex kinda screws you on AC, and with sorc it makes you tend to lean towards unarmored, which gives you only 18 AC. Add in the mandatory warcaster and you're sitting at 19 AC tops before like level 12 minimum. And you can't combine that with Paladin defensive style. It really causes an issue as well because you're discouraged from maxing cha first like you typically would for a SnB build.

    So I'm thinking, what about Medium Armor Master? I know most dex classes don't really like it, but with MAM and defensive fighting style your tanking power comes on MUCH faster, and you're no longer discouraged from going heavy cha if that's your thing. Plus you can still go stealthy without being terrible at AC and having to spam shield much more often. What do you guys think?

  28. - Top - End - #448
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterdeep Merch View Post
    I'm not so sure about Heavy Armor Master. It only blocks 3 physical damage, but I think that actually becomes more useful later as the number of enemies and the number of monsters with multiattack rises. Imagine a scenario when you're surrounded by, say, three enemies with three attacks each, a not-uncommon situation late game. If you're caught without slots for shield or want your reaction for something else, then the chances of them bypassing your AC thanks to how bounded accuracy scales can be pretty good. Lets say you take four hits from that- HAM now blocks 12 damage, which is pretty significant. And it's not unheard to take way more hits than that.
    Hm. That's a fair counterpoint. Let's look at it a little further.

    You have two primary suppositions.

    The first is that you face more enemies at higher levels. This is going to depend primarily on your DM. At my table, the early levels were the ones with larger numbers of weak enemies - part of this was probably because you don't want one solid hit from a CR 1 critter to OHKO a level 1 character. So you throw a few CR 1/4 mooks at them instead. As player HP rises, their chances of being OHKO'd generally drops. A CR 1 Dire Wolf, for instance, deals an average of 10 damage. That's enough to KO anyone but the d10 classes at level 1 (and may still get them). By comparison, a CR 8 T-Rex deals an average of 33 damage. That's not even enough to KO to d6 classes at level 8. I suspect that as you level up, the high-lethality of single creatures wanes a little bit, and you don't have to fear using them as much. And thinking on a particularly well-known, streamed campaign I watch, I've noticed the same trend (though that DM has a flair for giant set piece boss battles.)

    The second is that monsters tend to have more attacks at higher levels. I'm willing to concede this point - although you can still find a CR 23 monster with a single attack action, it seems to be the general rule. However, in a best case scenario for HAM, where the monster has a bunch of attacks, I still think it scales poorly because the damage per hit still increases, while HAM's resistance doesn't.
    Spoiler: Examples
    Show

    Challenge 1: A Dire Wolf, dealing 1 attack at 10 damage per hit. HAM mitigates 30% of that damage.

    Challenge 6: A Young White Dragon, dealing 3 attacks at 14 damage per hit. HAM mitigates 21% of that damage.

    Challenge 8: A 5-headed Hydra, dealing 5 attacks at 10 damage per hit. HAM mitigates 30% of that damage.

    Challenge 12: An Erinyes, dealing 3 attacks at 22 damage per hit. HAM mitigates 14% of that damage.

    Challenge 20: An Ancient White Dragon, dealing 6 attacks at 18 damage per hit. HAM mitigates 16.7% of that damage.

    Challenge 23: A Kraken, dealing 6 attacks at 20 damage per hit. Ham mitigates 15% of that damage.


    On top of that, as you increase in level, you're more likely to run into things that ruin your day that aren't 'getting hit in the face.' Higher level spells, Save-or-suck effects, breath weapons and being swallowed whole all tend to ruin your day and bypass that feat you bought.

    I mean, you have some valid points. Its not entirely useless. But its at its best when you're being focused on and useless when you aren't being hit. Taking 30% less damage from a hydra isn't bad. But I don't know if its worth it versus an ASI - putting a point into Constitution roughly gives you a 5% better chance to succeed on Concentration checks and Constitution saves, and (assuming 2/18 build with Con 14), about 14% more hit points.

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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus the Grim View Post
    I mean, you have some valid points. Its not entirely useless. But its at its best when you're being focused on and useless when you aren't being hit. Taking 30% less damage from a hydra isn't bad. But I don't know if its worth it versus an ASI - putting a point into Constitution roughly gives you a 5% better chance to succeed on Concentration checks and Constitution saves, and (assuming 2/18 build with Con 14), about 14% more hit points.
    Oh, no, I absolutely agree that you shouldn't be taking HAM late-game for anything other than fixing an odd attribute score. I'm just saying that if you've got one, HAM might be superior to taking a different unwanted half-feat in something else to warrant a +1/+1 attribute split on your next ASI.

    Unless the table in question allows for the UA skill feats, in which case I'd consider you insane for not taking the athletics feat instead. I'm finding it hard not working that beauty into every strength-based character I build.

  30. - Top - End - #450
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    Default Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefantasma View Post
    Hi Gourmandie:

    Iīve just registered to post this. Iīve been trying to find a great combination for a Paladin/Sorcerer Aasimar(Volos). It all started by a quest to revive my tempest cleric, but I think Iīve created something nifty!!

    I used your guide as inspiration, and for that, you have my deep thanks. Without it, and the extensive and great insights this would not have been possible.

    Iīve made a GDOCs with the build itself, so everyone can review it, but I cannot post this as I donīt have the post counts (sorry admins!)
    https ://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16CCaXQOAisrZpgDbrJ-rtot2tS9cDR0MDvRSOn83WxU/edit?usp=sharing

    Basically, Iīve made the following combo (creating it at level 14).

    Paladin 6 Devotion / Sorcerer 7 Favored Soul / Hexblade 1

    Devotion so as to gain 2nd level paladin slots, a decent channel divinity (add cha to atk rolls) and above all Aura of Protection. Itīs the first level pick, so we get all armor, shields and weapons, as well as STs in WIS & CHA.

    I rolled the following starting stats:
    18, 16, 14, 12, 7, 6. Tricky with that 7 & 6, especially for this MAD build.

    Iīve allocated it like this:
    STR: 14
    DEX: 12
    CON: 16
    INT: 6 (Iīll get to that!)
    WIS: 7 +1(aasimar)
    CHA: 18 +2(aasimar)
    Aasimar Racials give you +2 CHA and +1 WIS as the protector subrace.

    This nets me the following:
    STR: 14+2
    DEX: 12+1
    CON: 16+3
    INT: 19+4 (Iīve acquired a headband of intellect!)
    WiS: 8-1
    CHA: 20+5

    So, the Hexblade feature:


    makes the use of STR irrelevant. So we can focus on CHA and not be feat dependent.

    This allows for 2 feats. Paladin 4 and Sorcerer 4.
    Iīve taken Warcaster as a must and Inspiring Leadership, to add an extra layer of support.

    Hexbladeīs curse is also pretty nifty:



    So, we now can, per SR, to one target, crit like a champion, add +5 to each damage roll and regain HP when we kill a target! Sign me up!!

    Additionally, 1 level in Warlock gives us access to two cantrips and two warlock spells, as well as 1 spell slot that we regain each SR (helps for smite or shield). Spells Iīve picked utility, so Charm Person and Illusory Script for RP situations.

    So...for the cantrip...YES, ELDRITCH BLAST BABY! If we take one more level in Warlock, we can get Empowered (+CHA dmg) + Repelling Blast (push 10ft) which synergizes wonderfully with Booming Blade, a combo that can be pulled off with 1 sorcery point in one turn. So, 3D10 + 5D8 in one turn for 1 Sorc point. Not bad at all. It would leave us as a Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 12 / Warlock 2 (losing 7th spells) or we could even go Sorc 11 / lock 3 and unlock something else, however, weīd lose access to 7th level spells AND an ASI).

    Favored Soul Sorcerer adds something really good as well. You have access to the cleric spell list. So, Healing Word, Guidance(!!) and other nifty cleric spells are wonderful to have and synergize well with the Paladin from a Lore POV.

    Aditionally, High STīs are good, but why not add an extra 2d4 to either an attack roll or ST with the Sorcerer feature? You also get to add 1HP per Sorcerer level, similar to Draconic Resilience.

    Why not draconic you ask? Well, elemental affinity is cool, however, a lot of creatures are resistant to fire (especially fiends), so it felt a bit of a gamble to me. However, force damage / radiant damage resistance or immunity is really low across the board. Also, I just canīt really fall in love with GFB. Itīs just a bit too...situational and overly complicated for me. So, taking GFB out of the equation, thereīs no need for Fire damage to be boosted.

    With this setup you lose out on the lvl 14 sorcerer feature, alas, the favored soul is not that special (immunity to poison), considering Lay on Hands as a Paladin feature. Draconics get to fly...which is really cool, but hey, thatīs what the winged boots are for! Also, the aasimarīs radiant soul letīs you fly around...for a bit =)

    So, Iīve done a scenario:

    Round 1:
    Bonus: Quicken Haste (+1 action, AC+2, 60ft movement, dash/disengage/hide, concentration) - 2 Sorc Points
    Action: Eldritch Blast - +10 to hit - 3D10
    Action: Eldritch Blast - +10 to hit - 3D10
    Movement: Head towards the frontlines 60ft.
    Reaction: AoO - Booming Blade w/ Warcaster (potentially 5d8)


    Round 2:
    Bonus: Quicken Mirror Image (3 duplicates) - 2 Sorc Points
    Action: 2 attacks (+12 to hit, 2d8+14 if both hit) + 2 Smites (4th 5D8 & 3rd 4D8 damage)
    Action: Eldritch Blast (+10 to hit, 3D10)
    Reaction: AoO - Booming Blade w/ Warcaster (potentially 5d8)

    Round 3:
    Bonus: Hexblade Curse
    Action: 2 attacks (+12 to hit, 2d8+14+10 w/ curse if both hit) + 2 Smites (2nd 3D8 & 1st 2D8 damage)
    Action: Eldritch Blast (+10 to hit, 3D10+5 w/ curse)
    Reaction: AoO - Booming Blade w/ Warcaster (potentially 5d8)

    Round 4:
    Action: 2 attacks (+12 to hit, 2d8+14+10 if both hit)
    Action: Eldritch Blast (+10 to hit, 3D10+5)
    Reaction: AoO - Booming Blade con Warcaster (potentially 5d8)

    Round 5:
    Repeat 4 and keep it up.

    ----

    A total of 13d10 eldritch, 6d8+42 attacks, 14d8 smites, 35 damage from the curse. Thatīs 254 total/4 (using averages), so 63.5 damage per turn up to turn 4, provided everything hits. After that itīs a steady 3d10+2d8+14+15 (57!) per turn without using slots, as long as you maintain haste.

    You would have AC 24 (Full plate, shield, defense style, cloak of protection, haste) since turn 2 & 3 duplicates to not get hit.
    If you get hit, you have advantage due to Warcaster and +9 CON STs. Worst case, cast Shield and get up to 29(!!!!) AC

    After all of that, we remain with the following resources for our next encounter:
    3 sorcery points (1 more quicken, or a twinned haste)
    4 1st slots (Bless, Protection from evil, healing word, shield)
    1 2nd slot (Mirror image or Misty step)
    1 3rd slot (Haste)
    1 4th slot (Greater invis)
    2 5th slots (to use any of the ones below)

    Keeping in mind we have the flexible spellcasting trait, which makes this build so juicy.

    You still would have your Aasimar racial feature available (radiant soul), which allows for +14 extra radiant damage per turn, 30ft flying speed for 1 minute, so on your next encounter you can fly around smiting radiantly without spending slots.

    Also, Lay on Hands and Healing Touch have not been used. So we still have a 44 HP healing potential.

    I have NOT playtested this yet. I will update once I have, but ON PAPER, this looks pretty good. Itīs a decent damage dealing tank. You can potentially expand damage a bit further with some AC loss for a GWM build. Which Iīve toyed with as well (you can see it in the gdocs=, but it does NOT synergize with the Hexblade due to the "two-handed" limitation and the "heavy" limitation on the GWM feat. So itīs not viable with a longsword. My DM would allow a Sunblade as a greatsword for this adventure, so hence the +2, but a Greatsword +2 would be equivalent.

    Please, let me know if you feel this could use improvement, or if I have overlooked something that does not make this build viable.

    Thanks!
    Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems as if you are using your haste action to cast Eldritch Blast, which is not an allowed action for the extra action granted by Haste.

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