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2017-07-10, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I humbly return to this thread for build advice. My Adventurers League Sorcadin is now level 9 and I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my next ASI.
Basically, my puzzle is this. Odd scores in Constitution and Charisma. Do I go Resilient or +1/+1?
Resilient will increase my Con save by 4.
+1/+1 will increase all my saves by 1 and my Charisma saves, Spell Attacks, Spell Saves, and Charisma checks by 1.
I understand how important Constitution is, but I'm still leaning towards the latter because I'm a Yuan-Ti. I get advantage on magical Constitution effects anyway, and nonmagical Constitution effects normally mean poison.
Build is a 6/14 GWM Vengeance/Wild Magic Sorcadin. Scores are currently 19/10/15/10/9/17. Has Boots of Speed, Gauntlets of OP, and +1 Full Plate.
As an aside, Sorcadins are definitely viable without the Scagtrips and still very strong. ;)
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2017-07-10, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- The sticks
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
To me, a lot of it would come down to how you play. Going Resilient is a total of +5 to your CON saves, right (+1 from CON increase, +4 proficiency)? Which is a huge swing if you're on the front-line with Concentration spells regularly getting disrupted. Lets discuss that. You're level 9 so you've been running the character for a while. How frequently has that ended up being a problem? If its been a regular thorn in your side, then going in this direction should help out hugely, a need which will only increase since you're close to getting Haste.
On the other hand, +1/+1 still gives you a +2 to CON saves (+1 CON, +1 Aura) which is nice, along with +1 to all other saves (+2 to CHR saves, if you ever actually see any), CHR checks and anything spell-related. So, this still helps with maintaining concentration, albeit not nearly as much and helps a little with a bunch of other things.
In a nutshell, the primary question is: how often are you blowing concentration checks, and is there any reason to think things will change in the future? If you're rarely blowing those checks now, and don't think things will change, then that +5, as huge as it may be, will be mostly wasted. The +1/+1 route helps too, and if you're rarely blowing checks then its not really a problem in need of addressing anyway. In that case, go +1/+1 for the myriad smaller bonuses, particularly if you do a lot of offensive casting.
So, imo:
- Pick Resilience if blown concentration checks are a problem or you have reason to think they'll become a problem in the future (ie. harder hitting monsters)
- Pick +1/+1 if you aren't really blowing many checks or if you spend a lot of time offensive casting (like Hold Person) where DC's are important, or, to a lesser degree healing spells"You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan
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2017-07-10, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2014
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
While I'd normally vote for immediately ditching any and all odd ability scores as fast as you can, you absolutely must have either Resilient: Con or War Caster when you reach the later levels, else one of your most potent tools, concentration buffs and debuffs, become liabilities. If you don't have War Caster, get Resilient: Con. If you already do, take the +1/+1 and even out your scores.
If you opt for the Con bump, take a Charisma half-feat at your next ASI to round things out. If the skill feats UA is allowed, grab Diplomat. If not, you'll probably be taking something a little stranger like Actor (a fairly underrated feat, in my opinion).
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2017-07-10, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
That's the kind of funny thing. He's lost concentration only once, many levels ago. He doesn't get hit physically often, and his resistances mean he isn't usually taking much damage from spells. Even a fireball that rolls for 48 points of damage probably only results in a DC 14 save - which he already has a +5 bonus to. And considering how quickly he runs into melee, there aren't many of those. Since then, I have picked up Shield and Mirror Image, which only help reduce the chances of him losing concentration.
It's Adventures League, so no UA.
I appreciate your insight. It goes without saying that if I don't take the Constitution buff, I don't plan on Twinning Haste.
The concentration spells I did learn as sorcerer so far either serve to incapacitate the enemy - Web or Hold Person - or only need to be active for a short duration. If they actually go off, it's not likely that my concentration is going to be seriously threatened.
FWIW if I do take Con, I'll probably take Actor in a year when I get this guy to level 14. It's not all that powerful in AL, but it fits the character (and his deception proficiency.)
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2017-07-11, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2014
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
If you go Actor, remember to grab disguise self or a spell like it. You'll be capable of some pretty hilarious shenanigans from time to time, bypassing entire encounters or getting close to the mage BBEG before he realizes that a GWM smitestorm is about to strike. Surprise smites are the best.
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2017-07-12, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
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2017-07-16, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- California
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Hey guys. I'd like some feedback on my current build.
We're currently playing through "Tales of the Yawning Portal." We are currently 5th level. My party consists of a Great-Weapon Fighter Battlemaster, a Druid shapeshifter, a Thief Rogue, and a conjuration-school Wizard.
I am playing a Paladin of Devotion 5.
Half-Elf
Attributes
Str 16, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16
I took a variant racial ability to pick up Booming Blade at level 1.
AT level 4 I chose War Caster (DM allowed it).
I currently have Full Plate, a +1 longsword, and a +1 shield.
I plan to take one more level of Paladin to bring my aura online, then jump into Sorcerer at 7 and ride it until the end of play. I expect we'll make it somewhere from 12-14th level.
I am strongly considering taking the revised Favored Soul sorcerous origin so I can select cleric spells and cantrips.
Spells and Cantrips planned with that setup include (but aren't limited to):
Cantrips: Guidance, Booming Blade (racial), Greenflame Blade, Fire Bolt (for something ranged), and whatever else
Level 1: Shield, Healing Word, Bless* (paladin, is getting constant use right now)
Level 2: Mirror Image, Prayer of Healing
Level 3: Haste (to be twinned), Revivify
I plan to raise strength to keep my attack bonus competitive.
I see his role as tank + support, both of which can happen while he's out attacking anyway for the most part.
First question I have, is the revised Favored Soul (and the addition of those cleric spells) going to be more worthwhile than the hit points and eventual fire-boost from Draconic?
Is there anything I can do to improve my character as he continues on?Spoiler
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2017-07-16, 07:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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- Greece
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
@SuperCracker:
I would probably take spiritual weapon, cause it's a great way to economize your sorcery points while keeping your action economy busy.Hacks!
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2017-07-16, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Even 10% damage off every round on average is pretty good feat. I mean maybe not before the strength (dex) and charisma ASIs but certainly if you are variant human, HAM makes for a solid feat to start off with for any tank class.
However, if you need to wait until level 12+ for it, it may not be worth it at that point since you have pretty much found a play style and use of class features to compensate successfully.
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2017-07-21, 03:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Can anyone offer me tips and advice on 2/18 or 3/17 GWM Sorcadin? I went v. Human and took blade mastery so far. I don't need to be too tanky and have the party to allow for more damage. I love the idea of an up close electrical melee caster. I love this idea and wanting to try its best. Was thinking going shadow sorc.
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2017-07-22, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
First of all, thanks for all the hard work that went into this. I just finished reading through (most of) the thread.
I would like to ask what you all think of the Shield Master Feat? For all the focus on Sword and Board and Booming Blade, it hasn't seem to come up.
The way I read the feat, it allows you to shove a creature as a Bonus Action. Shoving a creature allows you to knock it prone, provided you win the contest. When Prone, a creature grants advantage to attackers within 5'. Furthermore, the creature itself has disadvantage on attacks and is limited to crawling or getting up in terms of movement. Getting up costs half your movement and should count as voluntary movement, which in turn would trigger the secondary effect of Booming Blade. Unless I'm missing something, this seems like a pretty reliable way to put your enemy into a catch22 situation with a high chance of triggering BB.
The other defensive bonuses also seem rather awesome on paper. Does anyone have any experience with it?
Edit: Nevermind, BB is not an attack action. Still interested in the defensive options though.Last edited by Lysiander; 2017-07-23 at 02:15 AM.
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2017-07-24, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Kinda interested in playing a take on this, but I think I may have found a way to make this build a hell of a lot less MAD...
Abyssal Tiefling (more hp, +1 Con, +2 cha)
6 levels of Paladin (Devotion for +cha to attacks or Vengeance for advantage on attacks)
13 levels of Stone Sorcerer (Gives you AC = 13+Con, and can be used with a shield for 20+ AC, as well as +1 hp per level)
1 level of Hexblade Warlock (use Cha for all melee weapons that do not have the Two-Handed property)
With point-buy, you can start out 13/10/16/10/10/16 (no negatives to saves, or drop some of those 10's to raise others, whatever)
You get 4 ASI (paladin 4, Sorc 4, 8, 12) allowing you to raise both CON and CHA to 20, plus if you get any items which gives bonuses
But it allows you to focus on just two stats, CON (HP and AC) and CHA (to-hit, damage, saving throw DC)
Stone Sorc also gives prof to Shields, Simple and Martial weapons at level 1, so you can start as a Sorc (mainly for aesthetic, it's kinda odd when folks class into Sorc without having a story behind it)
The biggest downside to this is having to pick if you want 14 levels of Sorc, or 6 levels in Paladin. Paladin gives Aura of Protection (giving your saves a much needed boost), Sorcerer gives Stone's Edge and +1 sorc point (which gives more damage). I'd personally pick Paladin over SorcLast edited by EspyGrrl; 2017-07-24 at 11:39 AM.
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2017-07-27, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Has anyone had experience with the UA:Sorcerer origins or Oath of Conquest?
Also looking for thoughts on the Runechild origin from the Tal'dorei campaign setting.Last edited by B0nes; 2017-07-27 at 10:38 PM.
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2017-07-31, 05:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
So is no one going to mention that careful+web does not work according to Jeremy Crawford. Making it something that is up to your DMs discretion.
I can't link stuff yet but just google sage advice cloudkill its the second option. If someone would be so kind as to link it that would be useful also.
Careful Spell is used the turn you cast a spell and is intended to affect saving throws made that turn
Jeremy Crawford
Obviously the question is about cloudkill but still applies to web.
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2017-07-31, 06:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Haven't tried out Oath of Conquest, but I didn't see much appeal when I read through it. Armor of Agathys can be interesting in certain contexts, I suppose. Spiritual Weapon is nice if you don't have another plan for using your Bonus Action.
Guided Strike is nice, but it's for turning a miss into a hit once per rest, which doesn't stack up with being able to get advantage for an entire combat against the foe you really want to get a crit-smite off on IMHO. Conquering Strike *is* a nice debuff, I suppose, if you can get it to stick with that Wisdom Save it allows, admittedly Aura of Conquest synergizes with that fairly well by giving them disadvantage on it, and will work with spells to make enemies Frightened that are near the Sorcadin... Is there a spell tailor made for working with Aura of Conquest in its tiny 10' radius form? I suppose Fear will hit one cone's worth of them. I suppose they could go up to the enemy front rank, cast Fear, and then on their next turn Disengage in order to keep a melee-heavy enemy encounter at range while they're blasted to death by the party?
Can you roughly outline what Runechild does?
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2017-07-31, 08:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
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2017-07-31, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
So how useful would you say is web with and without careful I might be able to convince my DM to make the spaces I make careful to not have webs but my teammates will have to deal with the save after they move. It seems more useful in a group of ranged characters.
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2017-07-31, 08:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Immobilizing your foes where they can't get into melee and where the party can't get to melee them does generally work best when everyone has at least decent ranged options, or at least enough of the party does and enough of the enemy don't for the balance to favor the party.
A Rogue who can't get sneak attack or a druid already in non-flying wildshape form would be the most inconvenienced by this, I think
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2017-07-31, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I would've thought Armor of Agathys is quite powerful, especially at higher sorc levels. Guided strike and Conquering strike take no action/bonus action which I thought was fairly good.
Runechild essentially works off charges, which you gain when spending sorcery points. These charges can be spent on reducing damage (1d6/charge), advantage on checks for physical attributes, or bypassing resistance/immunity. There's also a fairly powerful capstone at 18. Hopefully I've been general enough.
Edit: I just realised that with the latest revision of the Oath of Conquest swapped Conquering Strike for Conquering Presence, a 30ft aoe fear. I honestly don't see how other Oaths can compete with Conquest for a level 6-7 dip.Last edited by B0nes; 2017-08-01 at 04:10 AM.
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2017-07-31, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
My recommendation is always ask your DM. Take Careful Spell and then ask him before you pick Web as a Sorcerer spell.
"Hey, before I use this in a game, does this interaction work like I think it does?"
If he says no, I would recommend considering a different spell.
That being said, even a careless Web is decent when positioned right. Its still a potent crowd control spell. Position it so that one enemy is just near the nearest edge and let your melee friends gang up on him without worrying about any of the target's allies. Drop it with the enemy on the far end and pepper him with ranged attacks while he (at best) wades at half speed towards you.
It has fantastic synergy with non-fire damaging spells too - between giving advantage to hit and disadvantage on dex saves, anything but a Fireball or a Lightning Bolt is going to be a good follow-up (and even those might be worth it.)
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2017-08-02, 01:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I'd like any advice/improvements for my current build. Currently I've got a lvl3 Oath of Conquest Paladin. I'm not sure whether to take a feat or ASI at 4. My DM runs a system where everyone can take a feat every 10-15 sessions but we're just starting so that's a fair way off. I'm thinking my options for feats are:
- Resilient:Con
- Heavy Armor Master
- Shield Master
- Warcaster
- Angelic Wings (same as dragonborn wings from race feats)
- Brawny (from UA: skill feats)
Race: Scourge Aasimar
Stats: Str 18, Dex 9, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 15, Cha 18
Using a Sword n Board.
I'm thinking of taking Warcaster at lvl4, but I feel like I don't really need it until I take some sorc levels. Once I'm lvl6 in Paladin, I plan to take 14 levels of sorcerer using the Favored Soul origin (from UA sorcerer). This gives me access to the cleric spell list, more hp, 2d4 to a save and advantage on Cha checks, plus it fits with my character's theme. Are there any must take spells from the cleric list (I'm thinking spirit guardians level spells)?
Any advice/help would be great.
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2017-08-08, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Back into D&D. Need advice on build.
Back in D&D with my old 2.5 group. Going 5e and be the offspring of our original heroes. I rolled like a beast. We did 4d6 drop the lowest for each stat and arrange how you want. I have 18,17,16,13,11,9 before racials. I am planning half elf. I also want to go wild magic. Not as interested in necessarily the best min/max. Our party will have a barbarian, druid, eldritch knight and maybe a monk. The barbarian and druid may have to take a break from playing around level 6 for a bit. We are starting at 2. I may need to tank and heal some when the barb and druid leaves . Possibly be able to have them play online but i want to be ready.
Looking for advice on the following..
1. Dex or Str...then stat assignments. I can get 3 18's with racial adjustments or a 20 and still great stats. That may free me up to get Battle caster sooner than stat adjustments.
2. GW or LS/maybe rapier and shield.
3. Hopefully a long term campaign so I am looking at pally6/sorc X. This could change as the came/group changes. Planning on pal2/sorc3 then not sure. What progression so i am useful low level then ready to go more frontline.
No UA allowed. Any other advice is much appreciated.
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2017-08-08, 07:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Back into D&D. Need advice on build.
For me that just screams out dex pally, but with attributes like that I'd actually go paladin 7 sorc 13 with a yuan-ti ancients dex pally, which is more than a little difficult to make work, but wouldn't be any trouble with numbers like that! you'd even have room for resilient con or warcaster.
Gods help anything that tries to cast a spell on you...
That's just me though...Last edited by Spiritchaser; 2017-08-08 at 07:06 PM.
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2017-08-08, 07:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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2017-08-08, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
The level 7 ancients aura is very potent. I wouldn't do it for other paladins in the PHB, although if oathbreaker is on the table, (which it sounds like it isn't) then I'd consider Paladin 7 for that as well
Yuan Ti is cool but in fairness, it's hardly the only game in town. Half elf would let you be proficient in both stealth and perception which can be pretty huge. Heck, with those rolls, just pick what you want... though do yourself a favor and pick something with darkvision...
CHA 20 is a good idea for a sorcadin, since it impacts so many things... But you certainly don't need to start with it. I'd max out dex early... though warcaster might be worth it very early as well.
With those rolls surely you could get everything you want eventually yes?
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2017-08-08, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
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2017-08-09, 06:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I don't know if this has been mentioned but one advantage a dex build has over a str build is that you can take your first level as a sorcerer to gain proficency in con saves.
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2017-08-09, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
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2017-08-09, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Thanks for the help. It looks like i get a bonus to wis saves and heavy armor prof with pal 1. Better con saves for sorc 1. I plan on taking battle caster as soon as I can before pumping dex. It kinda depends on the final party makeup and if my role will change at later levels. Thanks again for the help!
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2017-08-09, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Ok my post was directed to the thread in general and not that specifik goodly rolled character. But my take on using those rolls 18,17,16,13,11,9 and starting on level 2 would be.
Human variant
Str 13
Dex 18+1
Con 16
Wis 11
Int 9
Cha 17+1
Feat war caster
Level 1 sorcerer1 for the con save and draconic resilience is really nice before you find any cool + armor
Level2 sor1/pala1 the big benefit is the shield proficency.
That would be my starting point. I trade wisdom save for con save and since i am able to cast a spell i can take war caster as my bonus feat for human variant it also has 3 less hit points than straight paladin but i think that access to the shield spell and draconic resilience makes up for that. The big loss at level two is no smite at level two. And the big gain is lots of AC since you have Warcaster draconic resilience and a shield.
Level 3 sor1/pala2
SMITE!!! and either dueling or defense fighting style.
Level 4 sor2/pala2
Not a very exciting level but sadly you need level 2 sor before you can take sor 3 :/
Level 5 sor3/pala2
This should be the first level that starts to show the potential of this particular multiclass with Quickened Spell you can both cast and attack in one round or attack twice with the help of the attacking cantrips twin spell is also really great. Straight paladin is probably stronger at this point since they gain an extra attack at this level. You do have more smithes per day though.
Level 6 sor4/pala2
Here i would take +2 to charisma and really enjoy my extra level 2 spell slot and my 2 extra level 3 spell slots
Level 7 sor5/pala2
Level 3 spells are really good.
This is the point where i would decide if i want to go 6 levels of paladin or not level 3 spells are a big deal which is why i want to reach sor 5 before i make that commitment. The idea with the 19 dex is to take the resilient feat for my next asi.