FFG first time player Jedi build help

[Arctanaar]

I already plan on getting my Agility to max, which will be 7 since my right hand was cut off and was replaced with a cybernetic replacement, but the GM is adding a recovery period before I can gain the benefit, as well as getting my Lightsaber skill up since that's my specialty.

Just a small detail, though. You can go further, by the way of employing the enhanced leg implant (similar to the one that is already attached, and costs the same - 10 000 credits), as well as Enhancing your Agility with one of the upgrades to the Force power, thus bringing the characteristic up to 9.

Then again, I'd say that even 7 would probably be overdoing it, but if you have the credits, you can, as I have mentioned, improve your Agility twice.

[Bobb]

Just a small detail, though. You can go further, by the way of employing the enhanced leg implant (similar to the one that is already attached, and costs the same - 10 000 credits), as well as Enhancing your Agility with one of the upgrades to the Force power, thus bringing the characteristic up to 9.

Then again, I'd say that even 7 would probably be overdoing it, but if you have the credits, you can, as I have mentioned, improve your Agility twice.

RAW this is incorrect. The core rulebook states that a stat may not go above six for any reason. Cybernetics are explicitly called out as an exception and are said to bring the cap to seven.

There are a lot of different ways to six. One way to get to seven (cybernetics).

The enhance power is explicitly called out as not being able to boost either brawn or agility above six. Dedication is explicitly not allowed to bring characteristics above six. Character creation explicitly cannot start a character with an attribute above five.

Cybernetics are called out as the only form of characteristic enhancement able to reach seven and are listed as the exception to the six max under any circumstances to all characteristics. Where it says they can bring your stats above six it mentions it can bring the stat to seven, not that the characteristic cap is discarded.


If you want to play that way go for it but be aware you'd be better off in most cases building a secondary or tertiary ability up. It leaves fewer chinks adversaries can use to punk you through.

[dobby87]

Just a small detail, though. You can go further, by the way of employing the enhanced leg implant (similar to the one that is already attached, and costs the same - 10 000 credits), as well as Enhancing your Agility with one of the upgrades to the Force power, thus bringing the characteristic up to 9.

Then again, I'd say that even 7 would probably be overdoing it, but if you have the credits, you can, as I have mentioned, improve your Agility twice.

I don't see an actual leg implant so what you have to be referring to is cybernetic legs, which would replace my existing legs, something that I am unwilling to do. Yes, I could enhance it further by using an upgrade of Enhance, however that requires committing more force dice, bringing the total to 2, which I couldn't do unless I increase my FR. All in all I guess I could get an 8 Agility, but I would need to get another specialization for everything else to still be useful.

EDIT: The Enhance power upgrade doesn't allow for increasing an ability above 6.

[Arctanaar]

RAW this is incorrect. The core rulebook states that a stat may not go above six for any reason. Cybernetics are explicitly called out as an exception and are said to bring the cap to seven.

There are a lot of different ways to six. One way to get to seven (cybernetics).

The enhance power is explicitly called out as not being able to boost either brawn or agility above six. Dedication is explicitly not allowed to bring characteristics above six. Character creation explicitly cannot start a character with an attribute above five.

Cybernetics are called out as the only form of characteristic enhancement able to reach seven and are listed as the exception to the six max under any circumstances to all characteristics. Where it says they can bring your stats above six it mentions it can bring the stat to seven, not that the characteristic cap is discarded.


If you want to play that way go for it but be aware you'd be better off in most cases building a secondary or tertiary ability up. It leaves fewer chinks adversaries can use to punk you through.

Oh, you're right regarding both Enhance and cybernetics. I forgot about that detail of the Enhance upgrade, and didn't pay attention to the section on cybernetics where the limit of 7 is called out.

I don't see an actual leg implant so what you have to be referring to is cybernetic legs, which would replace my existing legs, something that I am unwilling to do. Yes, I could enhance it further by using an upgrade of Enhance, however that requires committing more force dice, bringing the total to 2, which I couldn't do unless I increase my FR. All in all I guess I could get an 8 Agility, but I would need to get another specialization for everything else to still be useful.

Well, cybernetic legs are an implant, are they not? And I was merely trying to recount ways to improve your agility, which turned out to not work out as I was thinking at the time it would. I also named Enhance as not helpful to you earlier, and am aware of the fact that you would want higher FR to use the power with HBS.

[dobby87]

Well, cybernetic legs are an implant, are they not? And I was merely trying to recount ways to improve your agility, which turned out to not work out as I was thinking at the time it would. I also named Enhance as not helpful to you earlier, and am aware of the fact that you would want higher FR to use the power with HBS.

They're actual prosthetics, they just happen to be better than the original limbs. There are other types, such as synthflesh or the generic prosthetics, however the general ones don't provide additional benefits, and are cheaper, and the synthflesh pretty much try to replicate the original limb as much as possible (such as Luke's cybernetic replacement).

I know that it was your opinion that Enhance wouldn't be as helpful to me, though Force Leap as a maneuver is pretty good and being able to enhance piloting is not bad either; I'm thinking I'll probably will end up being the best pilot by having the highest Agility. Yes, I know that having higher FR is preferable when using HBS, however I still think it best to have a force die committed for Sense.

[Arctanaar]

Spoiler: Off topic

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They're actual prosthetics, they just happen to be better than the original limbs. There are other types, such as synthflesh or the generic prosthetics, however the general ones don't provide additional benefits, and are cheaper, and the synthflesh pretty much try to replicate the original limb as much as possible (such as Luke's cybernetic replacement).

I apologise for directing attention to this, but prosthetics are, in fact, implants, if that's what you are arguing against. At least, as far as I am aware, especially considering that they can also be called 'prosthetic implants'.

[dobby87]

Spoiler: Off topic

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I apologise for directing attention to this, but prosthetics are, in fact, implants, if that's what you are arguing against. At least, as far as I am aware, especially considering that they can also be called 'prosthetic implants'.

Yes, they are implants, but my point was that they are replacements, not to confuse it with something like the Brain Implant, which isn't a replacement, and I couldn't get them if I still had my legs. It's irrelevant, anyway, as they would provide me no benefit.

[Bobb]

@Arctanaar, no worries. It gets weird where you end up finding some of the important rules throughout the book.

[Arctanaar]

Yes, they are implants, but my point was that they are replacements, not to confuse it with something like the Brain Implant, which isn't a replacement, and I couldn't get them if I still had my legs. It's irrelevant, anyway, as they would provide me no benefit.

Umm... They absolutely would. While in your game +1 Agility or +1 Brawn is easy to buy, you don't have infinite amounts of XP to spare.

And I don't see what you mean by not being able to install cybernetic legs because of still having regular legs. Having regular legs is not an issue when you decide to install the implant.

There is one advantage non-implanted limbs have over cybernetics, though: they aren't that susceptible to ion weaponry.

[dobby87]

Umm... They absolutely would. While in your game +1 Agility or +1 Brawn is easy to buy, you don't have infinite amounts of XP to spare.

And I don't see what you mean by not being able to install cybernetic legs because of still having regular legs. Having regular legs is not an issue when you decide to install the implant.

There is one advantage non-implanted limbs have over cybernetics, though: they aren't that susceptible to ion weaponry.

If I end up at a 7 I wouldn't be able to increase it more than that. It says in the beginning of the description of cyberlegs that they are used to assist people that lost their legs, plus it also states at the end of the description that both legs have to be replaced in order to gain the characteristic bonus. Now, part of the reason it states this is that you have to use both of them to get the bonus, but you also have to notice the keyword "replaced", meaning that you no longer have your original legs. It also makes it clear when explaining the ion weakness of prosthetics since they use cybernetic legs as the example. If they were just another type of implant there's no reason why it would cause you to not be able to walk, as your original legs would still be undamaged.

Like I said, I'm not having my legs replaced for the extra agility, plus the number of cybernetic enhancements you can have is equal to brawn and mine is two, meaning that if I actually wanted to replace my legs I wouldn't be able to get the characteristic bonus since I would only be able to replace one leg.

[Arctanaar]

If I end up at a 7 I wouldn't be able to increase it more than that. It says in the beginning of the description of cyberlegs that they are used to assist people that lost their legs, plus it also states at the end of the description that both legs have to be replaced in order to gain the characteristic bonus. Now, part of the reason it states this is that you have to use both of them to get the bonus, but you also have to notice the keyword "replaced", meaning that you no longer have your original legs. It also makes it clear when explaining the ion weakness of prosthetics since they use cybernetic legs as the example. If they were just another type of implant there's no reason why it would cause you to not be able to walk, as your original legs would still be undamaged.

Like I said, I'm not having my legs replaced for the extra agility, plus the number of cybernetic enhancements you can have is equal to brawn and mine is two, meaning that if I actually wanted to replace my legs I wouldn't be able to get the characteristic bonus since I would only be able to replace one leg.

Well, there's nothing preventing you from replacing both of your legs instead of one. As far as I am aware, the pair of cybernetic legs are a single implant (I'd wager that the GMs that rule otherwise are very uncommon).

I also did note the issue of susceptibility to ion weaponry, so I am not sure why you bring that up.

There is also the fact that, as I have mentioned, you don't have infinite XP to spend, and getting another +1 to Agility would make it cheaper for you to get to high Agility.

There is also the matter of picking the +1 Brawn variant.

Also, you may install the implant that increases the amount of implants you can get installed (can be found in Special Modifications), so low Brawn is not that much of an issue, given that you have access to the implant.

To clarify, I am not trying to convince you to adopt the implants, it's just that I am puzzled by your reasoning not to, and would like to clarify the situation and your options. It's interesting to do and can point to one's misconceptions, such as with my lack of awareness that cybernetics can't raise an attribute past 7.

[dobby87]

Well, there's nothing preventing you from replacing both of your legs instead of one. As far as I am aware, the pair of cybernetic legs are a single implant (I'd wager that the GMs that rule otherwise are very uncommon).

I also did note the issue of susceptibility to ion weaponry, so I am not sure why you bring that up.

There is also the fact that, as I have mentioned, you don't have infinite XP to spend, and getting another +1 to Agility would make it cheaper for you to get to high Agility.

There is also the matter of picking the +1 Brawn variant.

Also, you may install the implant that increases the amount of implants you can get installed (can be found in Special Modifications), so low Brawn is not that much of an issue, given that you have access to the implant.

To clarify, I am not trying to convince you to adopt the implants, it's just that I am puzzled by your reasoning not to, and would like to clarify the situation and your options. It's interesting to do and can point to one's misconceptions, such as with my lack of awareness that cybernetics can't raise an attribute past 7.

All it states in the book is that they must be bought as a pair. Now, to me that could mean one of two things, either you must buy two at the listed price, or the price listed is for the pair. My interpretation would be the listed price is for one, but the GM could rule otherwise. The main problem with replacing my legs is there is no in-game reason for me to do so, as I would be just chopping off my legs to get cybernetic ones just to be better and I'm not a Gank, which are the species that are into that type of thing, not to mention that I am a Jedi and they aren't into that stuff.

Yes, you did bring it up. I was just talking about it because I thought you might have been confused about the cybernetic legs being a complete replacement of my original legs. Also, on the subject of ion weakness, it's also good to keep in mind that we are doing plenty of pvp so if they find out I have cybernetic legs it would be simple enough to carry an ion weapon specifically to paralyze me, making me pretty much useless and an easy target.

I know that I don't have infinite exp to spend, but I don't plan on spending exp specifically on increasing my Agility after 4, excluding getting Dedication, which already will cost me less than buying it outright, and with one of them being right next to HBS and the other two away from an FR and one away from the 3rd Fearsome I'm not really having to go out of my way to get them.

What would I need the +1 Brawn one for? If you mention it in regards to the cap, then I don't think it should count towards increasing my cap since I got it through a cybernetic enhancement in the first place.

You are talking about the Biofeedback Regulator, which increases the cap by 2 and doesn't count towards the cap. Yes, with that I would be able to get the cybernetic legs, but, like I said, replacing perfectly good limbs just to try to be a little better doesn't seem in-character for me.

I just explained my reasoning twice in this post here so I think it should be obvious, at least by now. Just to clarify it's that it doesn't seem in-character for me to do so since my legs work well and that it would make me pretty much useless if one ion weapon comes into play, which very well could because of the pvp aspect and it just takes them finding out about it for them to decide to do so. Overall it just seems obvious that I'd be min/maxing instead of playing my character and would make it too easy for me to be taken out if even one ion weapon is around.

[Arctanaar]

All it states in the book is that they must be bought as a pair. Now, to me that could mean one of two things, either you must buy two at the listed price, or the price listed is for the pair. My interpretation would be the listed price is for one, but the GM could rule otherwise. The main problem with replacing my legs is there is no in-game reason for me to do so, as I would be just chopping off my legs to get cybernetic ones just to be better and I'm not a Gank, which are the species that are into that type of thing, not to mention that I am a Jedi and they aren't into that stuff.

Yes, you did bring it up. I was just talking about it because I thought you might have been confused about the cybernetic legs being a complete replacement of my original legs. Also, on the subject of ion weakness, it's also good to keep in mind that we are doing plenty of pvp so if they find out I have cybernetic legs it would be simple enough to carry an ion weapon specifically to paralyze me, making me pretty much useless and an easy target.

I know that I don't have infinite exp to spend, but I don't plan on spending exp specifically on increasing my Agility after 4, excluding getting Dedication, which already will cost me less than buying it outright, and with one of them being right next to HBS and the other two away from an FR and one away from the 3rd Fearsome I'm not really having to go out of my way to get them.

What would I need the +1 Brawn one for? If you mention it in regards to the cap, then I don't think it should count towards increasing my cap since I got it through a cybernetic enhancement in the first place.

You are talking about the Biofeedback Regulator, which increases the cap by 2 and doesn't count towards the cap. Yes, with that I would be able to get the cybernetic legs, but, like I said, replacing perfectly good limbs just to try to be a little better doesn't seem in-character for me.

I just explained my reasoning twice in this post here so I think it should be obvious, at least by now. Just to clarify it's that it doesn't seem in-character for me to do so since my legs work well and that it would make me pretty much useless if one ion weapon comes into play, which very well could because of the pvp aspect and it just takes them finding out about it for them to decide to do so. Overall it just seems obvious that I'd be min/maxing instead of playing my character and would make it too easy for me to be taken out if even one ion weapon is around.

1) As far as I am aware, the usual interpretation is that both legs constitute a single implant. However, FFG are deliberately vague in their description of some rules, allowing for several 'valid' interpretations.

2) Brawn would be useful against pretty much anything that is not wielding a Breach weapon. I don't know how often you fight such enemies, but there's that. If you focused on Brawn instead of Agility (a hypothetical scenario that does not relate directly to your current situation), it would be useful even against Breach 1 weapons.

3) It wasn't clear to me whether you were referring to your character's unwillingness to replace their legs or an OOC reason not to do so.
As a person who likes playing full cyborgs, robots and similar things outside of FFG RPG, I generally don't think of the IC reasons first.

[dobby87]

1) As far as I am aware, the usual interpretation is that both legs constitute a single implant. However, FFG are deliberately vague in their description of some rules, allowing for several 'valid' interpretations.

2) Brawn would be useful against pretty much anything that is not wielding a Breach weapon. I don't know how often you fight such enemies, but there's that. If you focused on Brawn instead of Agility (a hypothetical scenario that does not relate directly to your current situation), it would be useful even against Breach 1 weapons.

3) It wasn't clear to me whether you were referring to your character's unwillingness to replace their legs or an OOC reason not to do so.
As a person who likes playing full cyborgs, robots and similar things outside of FFG RPG, I generally don't think of the IC reasons first.

1. Like I said, all it says that that they must be purchased and installed as a pair. I think regardless of any normal interpretation one would have of the text I would say it would only be fair to consider the price as for a pair rather than for one since the listed price is the same as cybernetic arms and they are 10,000, which is a lot and 20,000 for a single increase would be ridiculous.

2. You are only speaking of the defensive benefits of Brawn and while I will admit that it would be useful in general it is not what I'm going for with this character. I started with a higher Agility so switching to Brawn wouldn't be as helpful, plus in talent trees that have talents that both allow you change the characteristic used in Lightsaber checks and allow other actions/maneuvers to be performed with Lightsaber checks it will dictate that you use a specific characteristic. In my situation that would mean that having a higher Brawn would not benefit me when using HBS and SS since I would have to use Agility. It does me more good to just increase my Agility rather than increase my Brawn at the expense of my Agility.

3. I like playing cyborgs, droids, etc. in other games, as well, but not all of my characters are like that so each character must be considered individually. It isn't just in-character stuff, though since having cybernetic legs make me a target for opposing players that find out about it and I wouldn't be willing to take the risk as a player.

[Arctanaar]

1. Like I said, all it says that that they must be purchased and installed as a pair. I think regardless of any normal interpretation one would have of the text I would say it would only be fair to consider the price as for a pair rather than for one since the listed price is the same as cybernetic arms and they are 10,000, which is a lot and 20,000 for a single increase would be ridiculous.

2. You are only speaking of the defensive benefits of Brawn and while I will admit that it would be useful in general it is not what I'm going for with this character. I started with a higher Agility so switching to Brawn wouldn't be as helpful, plus in talent trees that have talents that both allow you change the characteristic used in Lightsaber checks and allow other actions/maneuvers to be performed with Lightsaber checks it will dictate that you use a specific characteristic. In my situation that would mean that having a higher Brawn would not benefit me when using HBS and SS since I would have to use Agility. It does me more good to just increase my Agility rather than increase my Brawn at the expense of my Agility.

3. I like playing cyborgs, droids, etc. in other games, as well, but not all of my characters are like that so each character must be considered individually. It isn't just in-character stuff, though since having cybernetic legs make me a target for opposing players that find out about it and I wouldn't be willing to take the risk as a player.

1. Well, it would be 10 000 credits, same as the cybernetic arms.

2. However, there would be no switching, and you wouldn't be upgrading Brawn 'at the expense of Agility'. And yes, I was only talking about the defensive qualities because it is, indeed, not as useful in offence in the current situation.

[dobby87]

1. Well, it would be 10 000 credits, same as the cybernetic arms.

2. However, there would be no switching, and you wouldn't be upgrading Brawn 'at the expense of Agility'. And yes, I was only talking about the defensive qualities because it is, indeed, not as useful in offence in the current situation.

1. If the price were considered to be for a pair, then that would be accurate, but I already said that.

2. It would be at the expense of Agility since only my Brawn would increase, not my Agility. I would have to sacrifice increasing my Agility more in order to increase my Brawn. What I meant about switching is switching the characteristic I would be focusing on.