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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Wow. If Captain Cybear keeps this up I can only hope he won't get through a Iron Woodsman phase.
    On the other hand this proves that couples get more similar to each other over time.
    I'm pretty sure that's a different bear.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's a different bear.
    Huh?

    That's definitely Captain Landon.
    With more cybearnetics, but still the same icebear.
    I’m not entirely sure if it is a good idea to let Tenzi take care of her boyfriends injuries, but as long as they are happy with it...
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

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  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    BTW, you are correct, of course, about the plot being very artificial; it's just the specifics that were wrong. It makes no sense for the Admiralty to have had their "collective freakout." It's their jobs to plan what to do if horrible things happen. The long gun technology is technology that they should have known about and thought about already. They also obviously need to think about other horrible things, such as nannites turning their soldiers into weapons for the other side and nannites turning them into weapons for the other side, and so on. That's their job. They should be capable of doing it. Even if there is little constructive they can do in a situation, they should be capable of doing that as well. (Similarly, in the event of a DME attack, the battleplate just powers down and does very little so as to not attract attention.)
    The Long Gun is a problem that transcends planning against, because if someone smart enough to be able to use one gets one, your only recourse amounts to 'don't be the one they're aiming at', because the gun can be parked absolutely anywhere, and there is a lot of empty anywhere to park in, so trying to find the thing before it shoots you is infeasible. The absolute best possible scenario would be having the ability to trace the wormhole shot back to the source and lance it with a Gun of your own before it can relocate, at which point it becomes a MAD arms race.

    Nannies and DMEs can be meaningfully planned against because it is possible to detect and stop them before the attack hits. Planning against a Long Gun situation is, so far as we are informed as readers, the equivalent to us making a plan for our sun going nova.
    "Hope it doesn't"
    "Die quickly"
    Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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  4. - Top - End - #394
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    The Long Gun is a problem that transcends planning against...Planning against a Long Gun situation is, so far as we are informed as readers, the equivalent to us making a plan for our sun going nova.
    "Hope it doesn't"
    "Die quickly"
    Read the comic. We have been informed as readers that the Penultimate Admiralty's planning for the long gun involves forbidding Oafan ships from entering the Sol System. That's ludicrous and highly artificial, but that's what we've been told happened.

  5. - Top - End - #395
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    Read the comic. We have been informed as readers that the Penultimate Admiralty's planning for the long gun involves forbidding Oafan ships from entering the Sol System. That's ludicrous and highly artificial, but that's what we've been told happened.
    Meh, that's stupid enough to be believable.
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  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    Read the comic. We have been informed as readers that the Penultimate Admiralty's planning for the long gun involves forbidding Oafan ships from entering the Sol System. That's ludicrous and highly artificial, but that's what we've been told happened.
    You seem to be confusing kneejerk responses to an actually thought out plan, I would have figured the whole "collective freak-out" part would have made it obvious.
    Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    You seem to be confusing kneejerk responses to an actually thought out plan, I would have figured the whole "collective freak-out" part would have made it obvious.
    No I don't seem to be doing that. An intelligent reading of what I wrote would certainly not have come to that conclusion.

    BTW, I barely started to list the problems with your earlier comment. I'll throw out another one: If DMEs could be planned for much more meaningfully than long guns, why do so many of the characters think that DMEs have been wiping out all civilization in the entire galaxy repeatedly? It's the DMEs that seem to be the threat that's historically been the huge problem, not long guns.

  8. - Top - End - #398
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    BTW, I barely started to list the problems with your earlier comment. I'll throw out another one: If DMEs could be planned for much more meaningfully than long guns, why do so many of the characters think that DMEs have been wiping out all civilization in the entire galaxy repeatedly? It's the DMEs that seem to be the threat that's historically been the huge problem, not long guns.
    The difference is that you can see the Dark Matter Beasties coming giving you time to react, to plan a response.
    Even if doing so is ultimatly somewhat pointless it still gives the illusion of control.
    A enemy that you can see coming, that you can hit- however ineffectual that may be -is less scary than a foe that can wipe you out without even giving you the chance to locate them, simply because it looks like you can do something about the former while the latter leaves you utterly helpless.

    So yeah, a paniced overreaction to the Oafan Sniper Ships makes absolutely sense because it gives them back their illusion of control.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

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  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    The difference is that you can see the Dark Matter Beasties coming giving you time to react, to plan a response.
    Even if doing so is ultimatly somewhat pointless it still gives the illusion of control.
    A enemy that you can see coming, that you can hit- however ineffectual that may be -is less scary than a foe that can wipe you out without even giving you the chance to locate them, simply because it looks like you can do something about the former while the latter leaves you utterly helpless.

    So yeah, a paniced overreaction to the Oafan Sniper Ships makes absolutely sense because it gives them back their illusion of control.
    Apparently you can't always spot the DMEs in time. We know that the battleplates have a protocol that involves powering down and hoping the DME goes away. You can't have that much of an illusion of control if the protocol involves powering down and hoping for the best.

    Here is a real world analogy: All countries today are very vulnerable to a nuclear attack by ICBMs. Does having radar so they can spot ICBMs coming help all of those who have advance radar capabilities compared to those who don't? Did every military leader just freakout when they learned about nuclear weapons or ICBMs?

    Breya didn't freakout. Apparently it's possible to not freakout. The Penultimate Admiralty should have reacted the same way as Breya. The solution would be that the risk needs to be minimized via diplomacy while other approaches are considered: building their own long guns as a deterrent and research into possible ways to block an attack are a couple of possible ideas.

    I can't remember, but didn't the current book start with a UNS long gun test? If so, that makes the freakout even more implausible because they would have had to have been thinking about the long guns for a long time, unless the PA somehow didn't know about the plans for the weapon in advance. (Credomar is even older.) How long can this collective freakout last?

    I suspect that people will react to this situation differently depending how how much toleration for silliness they have. After all, SM has always been a rather silly space opera. I personally don't think this scene is all that bad. Yes, the way the PA is acting is ridiculous. Breya and Murtaugh pretty obviously think that it's ridiculous, so you can even argue that it's canonical that it's ridiculous. Still there is some reason for the PAs behavior. It's not as bad as some of the stuff in the previous book. It's bad enough to come across as rather artificial to me, and I'll stand by that, but it's not so bad to come across as a huge flaw. I don't mean to come across as if I'm making a huge criticism here.
    Last edited by eschmenk; 2017-03-05 at 02:25 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #400
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Huh?

    That's definitely Captain Landon.
    With more cybearnetics, but still the same icebear.
    I’m not entirely sure if it is a good idea to let Tenzi take care of her boyfriends injuries, but as long as they are happy with it...
    As I understood it, Captain Landon was in the Can full of Sky, that bear is in Sol system somewhere. Who is Tenzi?
    Last edited by halfeye; 2017-03-05 at 04:46 PM.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    As I understood it, Captain Landon was in the Can full of Sky, that bear is in Sol system somewhere. Who is Tenzi?
    It states on the page it's Jumpstar Prime which is in the Can of Sky. Tenzi is the AI on the page.
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  12. - Top - End - #402
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    As I understood it, Captain Landon was in the Can full of Sky, that bear is in Sol system somewhere. Who is Tenzi?
    The note saying the location says they're in Jumpstar Prime, the city in the Can full of Sky the Toughs built from the battleplate they bought with Oafan ship hulls.

    Tenzy is the gun turned AI with inbuilt fabrication capabilities he's in some kind of relationship with. She makes his cybernetics.

    EDIT: Ninja'd.
    Last edited by Grim Portent; 2017-03-05 at 04:48 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #403
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    It states on the page it's Jumpstar Prime which is in the Can of Sky. Tenzi is the AI on the page.
    Ooh, that makes sense. I didn't get that Jumpstar Prime was in the can.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  14. - Top - End - #404
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Interesting. Maybe we're going to find out that this 4118-6 entity is the actual cause of those regular galactic armageddons that the Archive knows about, not Petey?

  15. - Top - End - #405
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Interesting. Maybe we're going to find out that this 4118-6 entity is the actual cause of those regular galactic armageddons that the Archive knows about, not Petey?
    As far as I know, no one thinks it's Petey. He wasn't even around for any of the previous armageddons, so how could he have caused them? The in-story theory seems to be that it's the DMEs that are responsible for the armageddons.

    To me, so far there is nothing that suggests that the big computer and data storage device is responsible for the armageddons.

  16. - Top - End - #406
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    As far as I know, no one thinks it's Petey. He wasn't even around for any of the previous armageddons, so how could he have caused them? The in-story theory seems to be that it's the DMEs that are responsible for the armageddons.

    To me, so far there is nothing that suggests that the big computer and data storage device is responsible for the armageddons.
    Didn't that Archive-entity say Petey might cause the next end of the world as we know it and that something similar caused the previous ones*?
    Entirely possible that the stellar enclosure- or rather something stored in the databanks will be the trigger.

    *Or was it the immortality-juice?
    All I recall is that it didn't like/trust Petey.
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  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Didn't that Archive-entity say Petey might cause the next end of the world as we know it and that something similar caused the previous ones*?
    The archive entity is merely an idiotic device that completely misunderstood quantum mechanics. Petey completely debunked its logic. What the archive said is a joke. It's a parody of the stupid ideas that people get from misunderstanding quantum mechanics.

    Having said that, it's possible that some information in the new system would be dangerous knowledge. There could be information that people could misuse with catastrophic results. Still, it wouldn't have been Petey who would have misused that knowledge and triggered past armageddons simply because he didn't exist yet.
    Last edited by eschmenk; 2017-03-12 at 11:39 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #408
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    As far as I know, no one thinks it's Petey.
    Sorry, I worded it badly. What I meant is that some--including Petey himself--are worried that he might be the cause of the next galactic extinction event. Maybe it's actually this thing instead?

  19. - Top - End - #409
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Didn't that Archive-entity say Petey might cause the next end of the world as we know it and that something similar caused the previous ones*?
    Entirely possible that the stellar enclosure- or rather something stored in the databanks will be the trigger.

    *Or was it the immortality-juice?
    All I recall is that it didn't like/trust Petey.
    IIRC it stated that every time galactic society rediscovered the wonders of the past/developed something that could make an honest claim to being a god, something happened shortly* thereafter to destroy that society. I don't believe it stated specifically what the actual cause of destruction was; could be civil wars and internal strife, could be outside forces (the DMEs seem like the most probable aggressors) coming around to do a Mass Effect-style culling. Either way, knowing what Petey was fit enough of the Archive's memories to make it think that cycle was about to hit its destruction phase again.

    *shortly on a galactic timescale, of course. So could be several hundred or thousand years. And the Archive was probably at least a little bit insane, so while its actual facts about the past are probably true, the conclusions it draws from them are not reliable.

  20. - Top - End - #410
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Not Petey, no.
    Someone like him.

    But Petey or not Petey, I like the idea that there is some knowledge in that there's some knowledge in that databank the galaxy really shouldn't touch.
    (I read a series once where something like that happened.
    The resident precursor race got into a civil war about their tech.
    One side developed a weapon that would destroy anyone who would abuse the knowledge behind the tech.
    What happened next should be easy to guess.*)
    Not saying that will happen there, but Ennesby’s approach still seems the best for now.

    *Right. They were the first targets of their new security system. Because it determined everyone getting to that tech-level would inevitably abuse it and endanger existence.
    Making things worse: Simply knowing about the weapon (and the technology behind it) could attract it.
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2017-03-12 at 12:47 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #411
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    *Right. They were the first targets of theirnew security system. Because it determined everyone getting to that tech-level would inevitably abuse it and endanger existence.
    Making things worse: Simply knowing about the weapon (and the technology behind it) could attract it.
    Fixed it for you. People won't see what you were trying to hide this way. (Yes, I knew this wouldn't work, either.)

    Anyway, I'm glad you clarified that you are thinking what you are thinking because of reasons other than just because something that's both stupid and crazy made the claim. Generally, taking what a stupid and crazy person says too seriously is not a good thing to do. It worries me a little when it looks like people are doing that.
    Last edited by eschmenk; 2017-03-12 at 12:50 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #412
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    Fixed it for you. People won't see what you were trying to hide this way. (Yes, I know this didn't work, either.)
    I've no idea what you are talking about...
    No idea how that happened. Thanks.


    Anyway, I'm glad you clarified that you are thinking what you are thinking because of reasons other than just because something that's both stupid and crazy made the claim. Generally, taking what a stupid and crazy person says too seriously is not a good thing to do. It worries me a little when it looks like people are doing that.
    Eh, „it happened in another story” might not be the best reason for putting a theory together.
    Or the only reason? I mean the only way to specul is to use stuff we know as the base.
    Either way, I think it makes sense.

    The problem there is that the available information seems to indicate that all those previous civilizations developed beyond a certain point, did something and got wiped out.
    So you have the choice to either look into their stuff and find out what happened to potentially avoid/prepare for it- risking that the new knowledge pushes you beyond that point -or you stay away from it loose the chance to be prepared when you get to that level of development.

    Considering the nature of most sophonts (cough especially humans cough) I think not poking ancient knowledge is the better course.

    On the other hand the researchers looking at that knowledge and then deciding „Let's bury this and start to steer our development into a different direction” could be interesting.
    On the gripping hand I doubt that will happen.
    So I'm with Ennesby: Let's not poke that.
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  23. - Top - End - #413
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Yeah, I think there is a theory that some information exists about how to make and/or enslave DMEs and it would be really tempting, but also a very bad idea, to use that information. If not that, it could be something else.

    A few additional random observations:

    1) Enesby doesn't seem to be worried about that yet. (Maybe he should be?) He was worried about the computer learning about them, not about them learning from the computer.

    2) During the hacking, Enesby was following Tensy's instructions. How did Tensy get to be so much smarter than Enesby?

    3) Is the information already out? I don't particularly trust that the Purse's crash was merely what it seemed to be.
    Last edited by eschmenk; 2017-03-12 at 03:33 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #414
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    1) Enesby doesn't seem to be worried about that yet. (Maybe he should be?) He was worried about the computer learning about them, not about them learning from the computer.
    Of course he should.
    And I can see why he would be worried about the databank learning about them.
    You never know what it does with that knowledge.
    Even assumption it isn't an devastatingly clever A.I.

    2) During the hacking, Enesby was following Tensy's instructions. How did Tensy get to be so much smarter than Enesby?
    Didn't Tenzi constantly improve herself at some point? Maybe she still does.
    Add in the cyberware she makes for her boyfriend (assuming she put some processing units in there) and she gets even smarter.
    Plus she came from this place.
    Meanwhile Ennesby is still the same old Maraca- and if Kevyn or Tagon caught him even thinking about something like this they would downgrade him to pocket-calculator.

    3) Is the information already out? I don't particularly trust that the Purse's crash was merely what it seemed to be.
    That would be pretty much a worst case scenario.
    So obviously that's exactly what will happen.
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  25. - Top - End - #415
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    OK, what the heck is going on at the moment? Pretty darned sure this can't be the actual afterlife, so best guess is that these are the recorded personalities of the crew, maybe captured by the artifact they were studying. So--why did it do that? So many unanswered questions at the moment.

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    OK, what the heck is going on at the moment? Pretty darned sure this can't be the actual afterlife, so best guess is that these are the recorded personalities of the crew, maybe captured by the artifact they were studying. So--why did it do that? So many unanswered questions at the moment.
    They are similar to how Tagon was after he died and before he got a body built. I don't think we are supposed to know what going on yet.
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    OK, what the heck is going on at the moment? Pretty darned sure this can't be the actual afterlife, so best guess is that these are the recorded personalities of the crew, maybe captured by the artifact they were studying. So--why did it do that? So many unanswered questions at the moment.
    The ones we see would be the personalities of the crew of the freighter, which was just delivering supplies. It sounds as if the recorded personalities of the Purse's crew were already there under a tree. They were the ones who did the studying. We haven't seen them in this scene quite yet (but may in a few minutes).

    I think you're right about it being the artifact that is hosting a simulation that is playing out. It probably learned how to simulate the crew members by hacking their nannies. The artifact may have even used the hacked nannies to make the Purse's crew members attack the freighter and then commit suicide, although I can't give an in-story reason yet for why they wouldn't have blown themselves up in the middle of nowhere or flown into some sun or black hole.

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    The ones we see would be the personalities of the crew of the freighter, which was just delivering supplies. It sounds as if the recorded personalities of the Purse's crew were already there under a tree. They were the ones who did the studying. We haven't seen them in this scene quite yet (but may in a few minutes).

    I think you're right about it being the artifact that is hosting a simulation that is playing out. It probably learned how to simulate the crew members by hacking their nannies. The artifact may have even used the hacked nannies to make the Purse's crew members attack the freighter and then commit suicide, although I can't give an in-story reason yet for why they wouldn't have blown themselves up in the middle of nowhere or flown into some sun or black hole.
    If I had to hazard a guess, it's one of two things. Door #1: It's a warning to others, and a clear dead end. "Mess with 4118-6 and you'll end up as a patch of gravy." Door #2: There's something the Toughs will find to give them a lead, and then they'll be sucked into the same trap as Jozagle's Purse was. For unclear and possibly nefarious purposes.
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    At this point, however, I'm thinking way too hard about the practical problems of running a battle royale school for Russian assassins, so I think I'll leave it there.
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    OK, what the heck is going on at the moment? Pretty darned sure this can't be the actual afterlife,
    so best guess is that these are the recorded personalities of the crew, maybe captured by the artifact
    Maybe that artifact is hosting the afterlife, as a virtual environment, for the race of it's builders ?
    And the crew just got sucked in as 'guests'...
    -HaJo

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

    Quote Originally Posted by hajo View Post
    Maybe that artifact is hosting the afterlife, as a virtual environment, for the race of it's builders ?
    And the crew just got sucked in as 'guests'...
    That...is not a bad theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
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