Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

[Max_Killjoy]

Any speculation as to where Taylor is taking this?

Conventional storytelling would seem to almost demand that the Toughs end up interacting with 4118-6... but it seems that whatever's "living" there pretty much automatically "body swaps" the crew of any ship that interacts with it into its system, and uses their ship and "original bodies" to cover up what happened. How the Toughs would get around this, I'm not sure... and that would be a rather odd way to end the comic.

Petey might have the computing power to interact with the thing on its (their?) own level, but "Deuce Deus Ex Literal Machina" might be too much even for Schlock Merc.

[geoduck]

Any speculation as to where Taylor is taking this?

Conventional storytelling would seem to almost demand that the Toughs end up interacting with 4118-6... but it seems that whatever's "living" there pretty much automatically "body swaps" the crew of any ship that interacts with it into its system, and uses their ship and "original bodies" to cover up what happened. How the Toughs would get around this, I'm not sure... and that would be a rather odd way to end the comic.

I don't think we have any idea how automatic the process is; we didn't see what happened to the guys who last went through it.

[Max_Killjoy]

I don't think we have any idea how automatic the process is; we didn't see what happened to the guys who last went through it.

I don't mean that the process is automated -- I mean that the entities inside the object may do this as a matter of standing policy, that their decision is "automatic".

[eschmenk]

New comic: Putzho's "outstanding" question gets a compliment, but not an answer. Will we find out if they would let him stay insane or edit him? I rather doubt it.

Any speculation as to where Taylor is taking this...

I very much doubt that the Toughs will wind up in the same situation as the Gzeaul crew members. The CQ-101 that they are fighting seemed to have people inside (maybe the Purse's crew's meatforms), so perhaps the Toughs will be able to figure out what happened to the Gzeaul and will learn to not allow the same thing to happen to them. Of course, the Toughs will need to find out the object's location to even be able to make a mistake in the first place.

I could easily imagine Petey interacting with Object 4118-6. There could easily be quite a few pages related to Petey not necessarily being the alpha intelligence of the galaxy.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

That first sentence sounds like these guys are in fact the thing that keeps killing galactic civilization, and they do it every time AI's (or an AI, if they were all singular hiveminds like Petey) are about to take over. That is why their hardware illustrated on the page before looks so weird, it's optimized for housing traditionally sapient biologically evolved minds. The All-Star is not an enormous computer, but a really big bucket of brains, sort of.

The concept of upgrades, expanded space to develop your mind in, sounds like one of those cool ideas that will get too little attention among the larger story. (And rightly so, I do not want 50 strips exploring this concept when we can start shooting (or moving the plot forward) already.)

I'm wondering if the Pa'anuri were around the last few times though. Will they be set back to the stone age? Is that even a thing for them? Or will the outcome be different this time because of their presence? Can there be a truce between neurons and chips?

Or am I overthinking this with too few hints to go on?

[Max_Killjoy]

That first sentence sounds like these guys are in fact the thing that keeps killing galactic civilization, and they do it every time AI's (or an AI, if they were all singular hiveminds like Petey) are about to take over. That is why their hardware illustrated on the page before looks so weird, it's optimized for housing traditionally sapient biologically evolved minds. The All-Star is not an enormous computer, but a really big bucket of brains, sort of.

The concept of upgrades, expanded space to develop your mind in, sounds like one of those cool ideas that will get too little attention among the larger story. (And rightly so, I do not want 50 strips exploring this concept when we can start shooting (or moving the plot forward) already.)

I'm wondering if the Pa'anuri were around the last few times though. Will they be set back to the stone age? Is that even a thing for them? Or will the outcome be different this time because of their presence? Can there be a truce between neurons and chips?

Or am I overthinking this with too few hints to go on?

The one part I think lacks evidence is the idea that 4118-6 actively kills galactic civilizations.

The Pa'anuri -- they've been around for millions of years, and have wiped out countless civilizations on their own. Eina Afa is about 10 million years old, and given the old AI's paranoia about annie plants, was probably built in response to the Pa'anuri.

[Spojaz]

It doesn't intend to kill the civilization, just archive it. They can continue to do whatever they were doing while computerized, while a whole new civilization grows up in the ruins. If it's going to fall soon anyway, why not move them to a backup?

Of course, it's a little disconcerting for the civilization. You had solved most of your problems, your investment into AI was starting to get logarithmic returns, you were exploring the far reaches of the awesome galaxy when suddenly HEY NOW

[tonberrian]

Yeah, I think the stellar envelope is just an ark, surviving past the annihilation brought on by Long Guns and/or pa'anuri. It's enormous, but not so enormous as to be able to archive civilizations indefinitely.

[eschmenk]

That first sentence sounds like these guys are in fact the thing that keeps killing galactic civilization, and they do it every time AI's (or an AI, if they were all singular hiveminds like Petey) are about to take over.

Petey has said at least a couple of times that there isn't a single thing that keeps killing galactic civilizations. The causes vary.

It doesn't intend to kill the civilization, just archive it. They can continue to do whatever they were doing while computerized, while a whole new civilization grows up in the ruins. If it's going to fall soon anyway, why not move them to a backup?

Interesting idea, but when would they step in? Each time all spacefaring civilizations are about to be destroyed? What if the problem is that they are about to destroy each other via long guns or something like that? If you don't let them do that, you would be interfering with their agency.

Also, would they allow the backup civilizations to carry out simulated wars, if that's what would naturally happen next? I guess they could create yet another set of backups, otherwise that would defeat the purpose of creating the backups in the first place.

[keybounce]

File a warranty claim? "This product failed in combat too quickly"?

[Max_Killjoy]

Why do I get the sense that the shield failing more quickly than it should have is foreshadowing for something terrible?

[eschmenk]

Why do I get the sense that the shield failing more quickly than it should have is foreshadowing for something terrible?

Wednesday's comic:

Spoiler

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Yep, that's something pretty terrible all right, at least for the victims.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if there will be more than that, but I'm not sure. Maybe the shield was intentionally turned off so something could be dispersed with the shrapnel? Maybe nannies will program the injured Gzeaul and make them destroy the vault? That's just one possibility.

The CQ-101 that [the Toughs] are fighting seemed to have people inside...

If so, are they dead now? If not, who was talking?

File a warranty claim? "This product failed in combat too quickly"?

That was weird. For several reasons it didn't make sense for Kaff to have said what he did, unless it was snark, but it would have been odd for Kaff to have been snarky in that situation.

[Max_Killjoy]

Oh, for those on the fence, their Handbrain GM-screen / document holder / gaming prop Kickstarter made its first stretch goal, which means art and full layout in the Size Might Matter adventure PDF that's an optional add-on pledge.

9 days to go, and if they get the next stretch goal, the PDF becomes a full print version (with PDF while we wait).

[Max_Killjoy]

Started a discussion thread for the actual game -- http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ying-Game-quot

[Max_Killjoy]

Wednesday's comic:

Spoiler

Show

Yep, that's something pretty terrible all right, at least for the victims.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if there will be more than that, but I'm not sure. Maybe the shield was intentionally turned off so something could be dispersed with the shrapnel? Maybe nannies will program the injured Gzeaul and make them destroy the vault? That's just one possibility.

Infectious nannies was one of my worries, as well.

But from today's comic, we know there was at least one more thing to worry about... (dramatic music here).

The CQ-101 that [the Toughs] are fighting seemed to have people inside...

If so, are they dead now? If not, who was talking?

Maybe that was just "instances" of the virtual-people from 4118-6 running inside the upgraded guts of CQ-101.

[eschmenk]

But from today's comic, we know there was at least one more thing to worry about... (dramatic music here).

Yep. A couple of weeks ago:

New update. Interesting. But the Daggermother should probably be heading for the vault, not the returns dock, in case the rampaging modded CQ-101 is intended to be a distraction.

She agreed with me! But how does a big bag of stuff count as nanomotile creeper? Shouldn't it have dispersed and tried to sneak by? Or did she somehow gather it together and bag it incredibly quickly?

[smuchmuch]

Aaw, poor Enesby look so sad. then again it alway surprised me that he never asked for or bought himself a bigger macara with more computing power. I mean he may be technicaly a NCO but he's still paid, ain't he ?

[eschmenk]

Aaw, poor Enesby look so sad. then again it alway surprised me that he never asked for or bought himself a bigger macara with more computing power. I mean he may be technicaly a NCO but he's still paid, ain't he ?

I might be wrong, but I thought Ennesby was regarded as being rather powerful, at least for his size. IIRC he is more powerful than he was licensed to be, anyway.

[factotum]

I might be wrong, but I thought Ennesby was regarded as being rather powerful, at least for his size. IIRC he is more powerful than he was licensed to be, anyway.

That was when he was controlling the entire ship a few years ago (e.g. not when he replaced Tagii, the earlier time), and was thus resident in the ship's hardware, not the maraca. The size restrictions of the maraca prevent him being any more powerful than he currently is.

[guttering flame]

That was when he was controlling the entire ship a few years ago (e.g. not when he replaced Tagii, the earlier time), and was thus resident in the ship's hardware, not the maraca. The size restrictions of the maraca prevent him being any more powerful than he currently is.

Is there a future for Enesby as Trojan-horse hack into the Matryushka system? It's been noted he's uniquely qualified to infiltrate foreign computer systems. Not a maraca but a solar system ball of awesomeness!

[Doran]

Spoiler: Sunday Update

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The All-Star has 44 galaxies worth of sentients in there?!

I wonder if they have offsite backups... - what if the dark matter entities wanted a snack?

[eschmenk]

New comic. I assume by "everybody else" Putzho means the entire population of the galaxy other than the few coworkers already captured. If so, the entire population of the galaxy would only take up about 1% of the capacity. So what is in the 44% that's already used? It sounds as if they tried capturing everyone only once. Maybe the galaxy was much more populated when they did? In any case, would that have been one of the mass extinction events?

Is there a future for Enesby as Trojan-horse hack into the Matryushka system? It's been noted he's uniquely qualified to infiltrate foreign computer systems. Not a maraca but a solar system ball of awesomeness!

The thing is that Legs and Kevyn just said that anyone could do what Ennesby did as if Ennesby is far from being uniquely qualified. Either way, I think it's more likely that Ennesby would become the hackee rather than the hacker, given what he would be up against.

That was when he was controlling the entire ship a few years ago (e.g. not when he replaced Tagii, the earlier time), and was thus resident in the ship's hardware, not the maraca. The size restrictions of the maraca prevent him being any more powerful than he currently is.

Yeah, I think that's right. I was only half remembering that scene.

[Max_Killjoy]

Spoiler: Sunday Update

Show

The All-Star has 44 galaxies worth of sentients in there?!

I wonder if they have offsite backups... - what if the dark matter entities wanted a snack?

Do they have any annie plants or teraports to attract the Pa'anuri's attention?

Or... they may have the sort of gravitic systems/weapons that can smack the Pa'anuri around.

[tyckspoon]

New comic. I assume by "everybody else" Putzho means the entire population of the galaxy other than the few coworkers already captured. If so, the entire population of the galaxy would only take up about 1% of the capacity. So what is in the 44% that's already used? It sounds as if they tried capturing everyone only once. Maybe the galaxy was much more populated when they did? In any case, would that have been one of the mass extinction events?

Some portion of the All-Star's capacity is presumably taken up by its own internal processes, much like a modern-day computer has some portion of its CPU, RAM, and storage space dedicated to hosting and running its operating system. Other than that, I'd have to go with insufficient information to answer. Could be they've just been doing this long enough to have used up that much space. Could be a smaller number of intelligences that have duplicated themselves or otherwise expanded to larger 'minds' - upgrades were mentioned in the strip where Putzho was shown the processing unit currently hosting his intelligence, and multiple instances of the orientation hosts are running concurrently. Probably some mix of both. And then there's environmental simulation, whether on an individual level or replicating entire planets, star systems, possibly whole galaxies for certain groups that have become used to the degree of freedom of travel created by instant FTL movement. Plenty of runtime/storage space could potentially be eaten up in simulating a persistent reality for the All-Stars minds to live in.

And yes, the 'unacceptably lossy' rapture does sound like the All-Star either caused or accidentally aggravated one of the previous mass-extinctions. Possibly at some point they experimented with making themselves publicly known and offering immortality-via-computer-transference to the known galaxy and ended up touching off widespread social unrest and violence that cost more lives than they were able to record.

[smuchmuch]

Well it wouldn't the first story of cyberocracy ending badly that we'd hear.

Except for the scale that is.

[Gnoman]

And yes, the 'unacceptably lossy' rapture does sound like the All-Star either caused or accidentally aggravated one of the previous mass-extinctions. Possibly at some point they experimented with making themselves publicly known and offering immortality-via-computer-transference to the known galaxy and ended up touching off widespread social unrest and violence that cost more lives than they were able to record.

Alternatively, they tried to intervene in a mass-extinction event and save what they could.

[keybounce]

If the brain wanted to have offsite backups?

... I'm thinking several hundred or thousands of planets worth of meat brains. What do you think?

Oh, wait, if you're going to have planets of people instead, then why have the space brain?

[smuchmuch]

Oh, wait, if you're going to have planets of people instead, then why have the space brain?

Cause people have an annoying to be fragile and do that 'dying' thing ? So it's nice to have a computer backup.

Of course things are a bit a changed with the whole 'immortality nanies for everyone' which is effectively having your meat brain and your computer backup in you (and an extra on the side if you want as we saw with Tagon).

Of course this whole arc is likely going to get to learninjg if the computer brain people were behind or connected to the whole 'trying to plunge the sol system into a civil war by rewritting the JSC" (does that mean a copy the rewritten JSC agents would be in the computer somewhere) thing since so far very similar modus operandi were used but they're motives and personality seems a little at odds with the scale of the massacre that was planned. (also there were a lot of hints that the water people from Celesthull were involved as well...)

Spoiler

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We alslo know for a fact Lazarus nanies can counteract Urthreep nanies and Schloick pretty much unhackable so at least there's less risk for the tough.
MLake me wonder how the brain people might react to that tho.

[eschmenk]

Of course this whole arc is likely going to get to learninjg if the computer brain people were behind or connected to the whole 'trying to plunge the sol system into a civil war by rewritting the JSC" (does that mean a copy the rewritten JSC agents would be in the computer somewhere) thing since so far very similar modus operandi were used but they're motives and personality seems a little at odds with the scale of the massacre that was planned. (also there were a lot of hints that the water people from Celesthull were involved as well...)

That seems very unlikely to me. The head guy in the All-Star had to be told that the current galactic civilizations had invented terraports and long guns. Apparently the All-Star normally avoids all contact with others and normally doesn't know what's going on outside of it. Given that, there would be little reason for readers to think that the All-Star might have had anything to do with what happened in the Sol System. That's a question that doesn't need to be answered because it wouldn't be asked.

[Doran]

If the brain wanted to have offsite backups?

... I'm thinking several hundred or thousands of planets worth of meat brains. What do you think?

Oh, wait, if you're going to have planets of people instead, then why have the space brain?

Uh... no, I mean multiple All-Stars, and sending mind backups between them in an undetectable way (dead drops?)

So if one is captured it doesn't reveal the others.

Do you all think the All Star has a Paa'nuri safe wormhole like the Buu'thandi, so they shuttle backups back or forth?

Or is it like Broken Wind, where they have shutdown all wormhole producing gear and annieplants, and only use slow probes or gravy drives for communication?