Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XII - DIS FINGY GOT NO SQUIGZ IN IT!

[LeSwordfish]

I'd also like to think/hope that the Mantis' assumed recklessness comes from a desire to prove himself to his peers (Notice me, Senpai! *vomit*), rather than any c/overt stupidity.

The Mantis Warriors don't have a chapter planet (it was given to the charcarodons - talk about bad luck with new neighbours), so don't do recruitment any more. I would assume that in such a situation, the process of moving from Scout to full marine is rather more flexible - you need to keep the tactical companies topped up properly, while also having your sneaky sniper marines to do sneaky sniper things. As such, if you're a Mantis Warriors Scout in m41.999, you've been a scout for eighty-a hundred years, and you're still a scout because you're damn good at it.

This isn't M41 though - Demetrius is a Fire Hawk now, so he can return from the deathwatch and start rebuilding his chapter. This kill-team is set around the time the Fire Hawks vanished - 963.M41. So Saiteq (I'm getting used to that name) has been a Mantis Warriors Scout for around fifty years, he's a damn good scout, and when recruited for the deathwatch finds that he's every bit as good a scout in heavy armour as he is in a camo-cloak. Lets say, he never fought in the Badab War itself, but Fifty Years sounds like a good amount of time to go from a new recruit to a precocious member of the deathwatch. He was probably recruited for the Badab war (or trained during it.) Saiteq spent his entire recruitment process with pictures of Fire Hawks as the targets on the shooting range - and now he's fighting alongside what is, by all means, the last one.

Saiteq was the best in his entire company - probably among the best outside the First Company. Now one member of his team keeps calling him "Betrayer", and at least two others won't hold eye contact. Damn right he has a lot to prove.

(Twenty years later, the Fire Hawks are officially judged "Extinct". Demetrius leaves the Deathwatch, returns to his old livery, and starts rebuilding his chapter, largely by recruiting from other chapters. Who do you reckon ends up as his Scout Captain?)

[Cheesegear]

The Mantis Warriors don't have a chapter planet ... so don't do recruitment any more.

Wrong. Crusade Chapters recruit from any world they come across that appears to have suitable stock. Black Templars don't have a Chapter Planet, and they number close to 8000 or so. If not having a Chapter planet somehow prevented you from recruiting, Crusade Chapters would not exist. At all.

[Drasius]

Black Templars don't have a Chapter Planet, and they number close to 8000 or so.

I'm fairly sure that you meant to say 1000 marines, eh CG, wink wink nudge nudge, being that they're totally a codex compliant chapter and all and would totally never break any rules by going overstrength while purging the dirty xenos from the Emperor's galaxy. Yep, definately must have meant to type 1000, easy mistake to make...

[LeSwordfish]

Wrong. Crusade Chapters recruit from any world they come across that appears to have suitable stock. Black Templars don't have a Chapter Planet, and they number close to 8000 or so. If not having a Chapter planet somehow prevented you from recruiting, Crusade Chapters would not exist. At all.

I'm not "Wrong", thank you, I merely summarised.

It was further judged that the other surviving secessionist chapters would have to each undertake a hundred year penitent crusade to atone for their transgressions, and must do so without the right to recruit new brethren during this time.

Imperial Armour, The Badab War Book II.

[Cheesegear]

I'm not "Wrong", thank you, I merely summarised.

Ah. So the fact that they don't recruit isn't because they don't have a homeworld, it's because they're specifically banned from doing so.

[LeSwordfish]

Yes- my apologies I implied otherwise.

[Cheesegear]

But now I want to write a story about a Mantis Warrior Scout titled Sins of the Fathers.

[Wraith]

A title which, frankly, could apply to each and every Chapter in existence.

....Except maybe the Celestial Lions, and even then their "Sins" were more like the good intentions which we all know pave the way to the cold place.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Wrong. Crusade Chapters recruit from any world they come across that appears to have suitable stock. Black Templars don't have a Chapter Planet, and they number close to 8000 or so. If not having a Chapter planet somehow prevented you from recruiting, Crusade Chapters would not exist. At all.

Black Templars have never been stated to be 8000 strong, they're only around 1200-2000 strong (3-4 crusades with the documented one being around 450 strong) in pretty much every source going back to 3rd ed, with 3-4000 being only rumoured. With 2-4 Fighting Companies per crusade they don't even have an abnormal number of companies for a Space Marine chapter, its just that their companies are 120-220 strong.

Since the Ultramarines are at least 1200 strong normally if you actually add them up, the Black Templars are barely over codex strength.

Black Templars also have a vastly higher proportion of neophytes to full marines, due to massive attrition rates caused by an obsession with blunt force idiot tactics (ignoring the codex astartes doesn't make you smart, sorry Guilliman haters).

[Wraith]

Black Templars have never been stated to be 8000 strong, they're only around 1200-2000 strong (3-4 crusades with the documented one being around 450 strong) in pretty much every source going back to 3rd ed, with 3-4000 being only rumoured. .

Codex Black Templars (4th Edition) stated outright that they were 5-6,000 strong.

The most recent tally in Eternal Crusader (2014) says that they are currently back down to 1,000. The author, Guy Haley, has since said that the Templars vary greatly depending on the time period and the conflict, and will fluctuate between Codex Compliant and radically oversubscribed.
The important thing to remember is that the Templars don't actually care; they recruit whoever they like and attrition sees to the rest.

[Blackhawk748]

Also they kinda get away with it cuz they never have all of the Templars together at the same time, so people like the Inquisition get less pissy.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Codex Black Templars (4th Edition) stated outright that they were 5-6,000 strong.

There are usually no more than three Crusades at any one time, though there are occasionally many more. Indeed, the Black Templars' own history shows that during the Treachery of Dalmark, there were as many as fourteen Crusades fighting across the Segmentum Solar. The size of a Crusade can also vary widely, sometimes as few as fifty to a hundred warriors, sometimes the equivalent of several Companies from a Codex Chapter. Only the High Marshal of the Chapter has any idea how many Black Templar Space Marines there are, but it is obvious that they are far more numerous than most conventional Chapters, although dispersed over a much wider area. If certain accounts are to be believed, they could even be as strong as five to six thousand battle brethren in total, a force that would be all but unstoppable if ever gathered in a single place.

That's not stating anything outright. Its just that everyone naturally wants to believe the 'rumoured' number as the correct one even if it doesn't add up and some people inflate it over that because they feel like it.

Three crusades equivalent to several companies in size is just not that big a chapter and the description of 'mini' crusades implies that when there's more than three crusades that doesn't have to mean their numbers have massively increased. For there to be 5-6000 it would require 4000 to be sitting around Chapter Keeps in reserve rather than crusading which kind of goes against the point of the Black Templars.

Also they kinda get away with it cuz they never have all of the Templars together at the same time, so people like the Inquisition get less pissy.

Paranoia is the Inquisition's job. They've had more codex compliant chapters wiped out than spent time pissing off the big name legion building suspects.

[bluntpencil]

Also worth noting, besides the fact that they're spread out, is that they're not setting up fortresses beyond Chapter Keeps, and not setting themselves up as rulers.

They're out doing the Emperor's work, not stopping to bask in the glory of it. they're kicking alien ass, and asking no reward for it, beyond being allowed to do it. They're not the Astral Claws, trying to become tyrants of a local sector, but a bunch of guys that can't sit down for five minutes, who will quite happily head off outside the Imperium to kill bad guys.

[lord_khaine]

I do think a much more deciding factor is that space is HUGE. And the Imperium is a gigantic garbled bureaucracy.

To keep track of if there is 1000 or 2000 Black Space Marines is an impossible task. Especially when they dont have any fixed base and instead moves around randomly on their own. Both when warp travel muddles the issue, and when reports of what Marines that actually came can be hard to keep track of.

Im sure there are a lot of other chapters that could be confused with Black Templars.

[Demon 997]

So our DM is having us write in character reports for our Dark Heresy game, detailing adventures thus far, and our recent encounter with a pack of Necrons.

I'm trying to come up with some military sounding acronym, which just happens to spell out N.E.C.R.ON. Does the playground have thoughts?

My best so far is National security Enemy Causing Retreating Officers and NCOs, but this doesn't really fit with how we fought them.

Adding in: N class threat, Engage at Company strength, Request Ordinance Now.

[Brookshw]

So our DM is having us write in character reports for our Dark Heresy game, detailing adventures thus far, and our recent encounter with a pack of Necrons.

I'm trying to come up with some military sounding acronym, which just happens to spell out N.E.C.R.ON. Does the playground have thoughts?

My best so far is National security Enemy Causing Retreating Officers and NCOs, but this doesn't really fit with how we fought them.

Adding in: N class threat, Engage at Company strength, Request Ordinance Now.

National
Emergency
Crisis/Contingency
Response
Ordinance =
Nukes.

[Drasius]

So our DM is having us write in character reports for our Dark Heresy game, detailing adventures thus far, and our recent encounter with a pack of Necrons.

I'm trying to come up with some military sounding acronym, which just happens to spell out N.E.C.R.ON. Does the playground have thoughts?

My best so far is National security Enemy Causing Retreating Officers and NCOs, but this doesn't really fit with how we fought them.

Adding in: N class threat, Engage at Company strengthNominal Enemy Casualties, Request Ordinance Now.!

Fixed.

10 char.

[The Glyphstone]

Shouldn't that be "No Enemy Casualties, Request Ordnance Now!"? They are Necrons, after all.

[Cheesegear]

NOPE!
Escape...
Crap!
Run!
Oh noes!
Nuke it from orbit.

[Drasius]

Shouldn't that be "No Enemy Casualties, Request Ordnance Now!"? They are Necrons, after all.

If it's anything like the games I played on the weekend, that's exactly how it should read.

[Demon 997]

If it's anything like the games I played on the weekend, that's exactly how it should read.

If it's the same game I played this weekend, we downed them just fine. They just wouldn't stay dead, and then teleported out.

[Wardog]

So our DM is having us write in character reports for our Dark Heresy game, detailing adventures thus far, and our recent encounter with a pack of Necrons.

I'm trying to come up with some military sounding acronym, which just happens to spell out N.E.C.R.ON. Does the playground have thoughts?

My best so far is National security Enemy Causing Retreating Officers and NCOs, but this doesn't really fit with how we fought them.

Adding in: N class threat, Engage at Company strength, Request Ordinance Now.

Need Evacuation. Company Retreating. Opposition Near.

Negative. Exterminatus Confirmed. Range Optimal - Now.

[shadow_archmagi]

So our DM is having us write in character reports for our Dark Heresy game, detailing adventures thus far, and our recent encounter with a pack of Necrons.

I'm trying to come up with some military sounding acronym, which just happens to spell out N.E.C.R.ON. Does the playground have thoughts?

My best so far is National security Enemy Causing Retreating Officers and NCOs, but this doesn't really fit with how we fought them.

Adding in: N class threat, Engage at Company strength, Request Ordinance Now.

Nonorganic
Enemy with
Combat
Revivification.
Optimal response:
Nukes.

[Brookshw]

Finally finished painting my Goff Rockers, had plenty of fun making the stage and tried to incorporate the colors of the official Electric Mayhem,....sort of. Realized after the fact that I should have painted the trukk as the original bus,....but....red is for speed metal I suppose!

Spoiler: Dr Teef n der Elektrik Mayhem

Show

[IMG] [/IMG]

Kind of hard to read the words on the rear under the stage with the lighting, but there's a gold star with the words "Bak Stage" and "Zog Off". Also the "Volme" lever on the speaker goes "Sum", "Nuff" and "11".

Wasn't really happy with the lighting attempts around the torches so any suggests are more than welcome!

[Drasius]

Finally finished painting my Goff Rockers...

Spoiler: Dr Teef n der Elektrik Mayhem

Show

[IMG] [/IMG]

[lord_khaine]

Finally finished painting my Goff Rockers, had plenty of fun making the stage and tried to incorporate the colors of the official Electric Mayhem,....sort of. Realized after the fact that I should have painted the trukk as the original bus,....but....red is for speed metal I suppose!

Brilliant! thats the sort of wackyness that makes me love to play against orks

[LeSwordfish]

I finished kitbashing together my Kill Team. I gotta say, the Deathwatch kit is disappointing: plenty of options, but all sculpted in the same few ways. Still, that's what bits boxes are for, and I can make back a chunk of money by selling the frag cannon.

Kill Team Argent

Prognosticator Argent, Silver Skulls (Librarian, Team Leader)
Preferring to co-ordinate the efforts of the team from a distance, Argent is a powerful diviner and farseer, with a particular expertise in the runes of the Eldar, and a library of divinatory tomes.

Spoiler

Show

Blackshield, codename "Furnace"
The blackshield only known as Furnace arrived at the watch fortress a significant amount of time ago, with the psy-stench of warptime dilation and an archaic pattern of thunder hammer.

Spoiler

Show

Sargeant Ran-Daan, Mentor Legion
Sargeant of the kill team, and leader of their efforts in the field, Ran-Daan is a veteran of long service working with the imperial guard and inquisition, and experienced with many different mission tactics and attack patterns.

Spoiler

Show

Knight-Veteran Demetrius, Fire Hawks
A grim, unswerving warrior, Demetrius acquitted himself well in the first company of the Fire Hawks and was tipped for a company captaincy or champion role before being seconded to the deathwatch.

Spoiler

Show

Scout Saiteq, Mantis Warriors
The first Mantis Warrior to be recruited to the Deathwatch since the Badab war, Saiteq came highly recommended due to his scouting and stealth skills.

Spoiler

Show

Marksman Isaak Elijah, Raptors
A long-time deathwatch veteran, Elijah was recruited after completing an assassination mission against two tau ethereals, despite losing a leg to an attack by stealth suits.

Spoiler

Show

Brother Rowan, Emperor's Pointy Sticks Staves
A penchant for high explosives and the... casual temperament of the Emperor's Staves chapter may not seem like a natural combination, but Rowan has proven an effective demolitions trooper, for targets sufficiently far away from the rest of his team. Or any civilians, or any weak buildings.

Spoiler

Show

Brother Aeschlyos, Minotaurs
Aeschlyos is noted for his wildness in battle, usually wielding twinned power weapons and attacking the largest possible groups of enemies. When properly directed - usually by Demetrius and Elijah - this makes him a highly effective warrior.

Spoiler

Show

Davlan Kane, Sons Of Medusa
A veteran of the fierce shipboard fighting during the badab war, Bane is an expert in the operation and maintenance of heavy and special weapons, and acts as the team's engineer, largely to keep Rowan from the job.

Spoiler

Show

Brother Darien, Hawk Lords
A veteran pilot and assault marine, Darien took to ground operations and retrained for stealth during his time with Elijah and Saiteq.

Spoiler

Show

I also have six other guys, plus a Contemptor Dreadnought, but nobody cares since they're not named.

[Drasius]

Not sure if your links are busted (I assume there's meant to be pictures there in the spoilers?) or my internet is all wonky since it's been playing up lately.

[Destro_Yersul]

Can't see any of the pictures. Trying to quote and copy paste gets access forbidden, so I'm assuming there's a permissions issue.

[LeSwordfish]

Knew I couldn't trust Google Drive. Pictures should be fixed by now. EDIT: Except they're upside down, because thats the kind of thing Dropbox thinks is funny?