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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    As others have said, I agree that Ansom jumped in the center hex thinking the trick was veiled units. It's been stated that going around the fort would leave them without any movement points. At the very least I believe it's true for the Gumps and Elves.

    I wonder if Ansom and his motorcarpet has any move points left. If he has enough to jump through the circle of Dwagons he might make it to safety in the column. Vinnie could or could not join him.

    Tarfu and the rest are gonners if this scenario plays out though, for sure.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Quote Originally Posted by Scientivore View Post
    Yesterday I decided to call them "the Triniteyemancer". I felt that they needed a more graceful singular name.
    The Erfen Mind Meld?

    The Gamesters of Tri-Erfen?
    Last edited by ChowGuy; 2007-07-11 at 03:27 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Ansom's actions in this comic just made me laugh so hard.

    He's impaled on a spear that he should have seen coming but is too arrogant to think would be there, and instead of pulling himself off, he just digs it in deeper.

    Amazingly amusing.

    I'm also imagining Parson's inevitable - and inevitably devastating - reaction to another tactical trick he had no idea he could have used, and the implications that can have for his war plan.
    Last edited by Peptuck; 2007-07-11 at 03:30 AM.
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    Nostradamus once predicted in his journal: "In the century 21st, the one known as Jacques will be the savior of the world... five seasons in a row." Moments later, Jack Bauer knocked down the door, shot Nostradamus in the kneecaps, and yelled "WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR?!"


    "Ghost martyrs of the Sapphire Guard: ATTACK!"

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    I expected Ansom to scout the surrounding hexes once he noticed the central one was empty... Then he'd found the lake. BUT he didn't. Man, that guy's a really snotnosed big-head. It will be interesting to see the Tool <-> Hamster conflict on how to handle this. I hope so much Parson can convince Stanley of whatever he's planning...
    Avatar from Erfworld. Erfworld is a Webcomic by Rob Balder (text) and Jamie Naguchi (drawing).

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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Here's an interesting thought I just had that would explain Ansom's actions: he think Stanley's an idiot (rightfully so). Protecting his assets is well within what Ansom perceives as Stanley's capabilities, but tactical trickery like this is beyond him.

    However, something as bluntly useless as veiling wounded units in the middle of a giant, unveiled ring of dwagons is something that, in his mindset, Stanley is certainly incompetent enough to try at.

    That's why he was dead certain the wounded units were right there in the middle of the fort.

    "Of course! They're veiled! Only Stanley would be stupid enough to do that! Attack!"
    Last edited by Peptuck; 2007-07-11 at 03:51 AM.
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    Nostradamus once predicted in his journal: "In the century 21st, the one known as Jacques will be the savior of the world... five seasons in a row." Moments later, Jack Bauer knocked down the door, shot Nostradamus in the kneecaps, and yelled "WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR?!"


    "Ghost martyrs of the Sapphire Guard: ATTACK!"

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    I wonder whether Parson will now be able to veil the wounded stack before Jillian finds it... or would he have to wait until it's his turn again?

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Don't adjacent uncommanded units have to attack on their turn? Does that mean Ansom is deliberately making all 5 dragon-filled hexes attack him at once?

    Maybe he has a special "Win one battle free" card and is looking to take out all of the surrounding dragons in a single battle? Because otherwise it seems like a very dumb manuever to force combat with 5 hexes at once.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Quote Originally Posted by Peptuck View Post
    "Of course! They're veiled! Only Stanley would be stupid enough to do that! Attack!"
    You mean like "Only Stanley would be stupid enough to think I'm stupid enough to fall for the Old Empty Fort Trick! Twice!" oooo-kay.
    Last edited by ChowGuy; 2007-07-11 at 04:01 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    ugh there goes any hope of trying to redeem Ansom as not being an arrogant fool. Only hope left is that he charges through the dragons and back to the column.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    The issue comes in terms of resources and methods,

    Clearly Stanley works on the principle of a caster for every problem, he has confirmed a Croakamancer, Dirtamancer and the Tripartate board team, what else does he have as magical assets?

    that being a trait, Ansom presumes the use of magic where all else is confused. why his opponent has a penchant for spell slingers,

    Parson on the other hand dosnt really work with the magic in that great sense as he didnt know, this is throwing off Ansom's responses, same as if Stanley was known for doughnuting defences then hiding the real force a few hex's away somewhere hard to get to Ansom would have searched for that when in this reversal situation the forces are really in the fort veiled, Stanley has become predictable but its not Stanley leading the military, note that the thought of a new warlord hasnt crossed their minds,

    Parson is unlikly to suffer a reversal of fortune unless the tool blunders as the strength of parson's plan is to FORCE ansom into a reactive passive roll by taking the initative and keeping it,

    Surprise column attack - stalls the march Forces the hunting party
    Fort is a fake - Strands the hunting party without a prize for their efforts
    Ansom now has to bring his Air support to him or its going to hell in a handcart

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Oh, the irony!

    Ansom puts himself in danger because he doesn't have all the facts.

    Then he puts himself in further danger because Parson doesn't have all the facts.

    Yup, sounds like war alright.
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    Wash it away.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokiko Mima View Post
    Don't adjacent uncommanded units have to attack on their turn? Does that mean Ansom is deliberately making all 5 dragon-filled hexes attack him at once? [snip]
    Klog #4 actually says, "Stacks without a leader are forced to autoattack when in contact with units from non-allied capitals." That appears to mean whenever they're in the same hex, like how each of the six dwagon wheel hexes ate one of Vinny's bats.
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    Snag some Erfworld avatars and backgrounds, make some lolerfs and motivators (or demotivators), read my Erfworld fanmix, or check out my latest spotlight on an under-discussed webcomic: Head Trip (Scilight #13)!

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Maybe, maybe not. The fact that Parson is learning in baby steps what the world will let him do and what are GK's specialties, might continue to make it seem to Ansom's eyes that Stanley is just making a few shrewd moves.

    But the revelation that you can use the Eyemancy setup to cast Foolamancy spells that would veil your troops is not THAT big of a snarl for the turns that have already passed. As said before, veiling something from someone who has to rely on scouts and hats anyway is slightly redundant. Rather, the real trick is what Parson is going to do with his assets now.

    So far, we've seen: Mathamancy/Luckamancy, Foolamancy, superior knowledge of the battlefield, air dominance (or soon to be), the most heavily defended base on the Erf, and the ability to think outside the box. If I were in Parson's place, I'd give Ansom (or his eventual replacement) the most horrible runaround they've ever had the misfortune to experience. Make them doubt anything and everything they've relied on. Up is down, left is right, black is white, evil is good! Make them hesitate. Make them do risky maneuvers. Make them use their trump cards, that only make things worse. The string of "victories" is only the beginning. The Donut of Doom is only a foretaste. If before we've given Vinny suspicions, now give him outright paranoid nightmares. You can let them suffer, but play to WIN, Parson.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    I think that Ansom can't push through because he doesn't have enough move. Simple as that. I think that Ansom and Vinnie will be captured and that the battle is going downhill all the way from here for team Jetstone.

    However,
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    Our dear toolship is on a quest to conquer the world and the battle for Godwin Knob is just part 1, yes? What's to say they won't have need of Parson there, especially as he's already proven himself more than capable

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    I think if Parson knew about the weiling he's plan would be different.
    He could have used all dwagons to destroy all sieges in one turn, veil them, and destroy more normal troops the next turn. Or even ambush the fliers.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokiko Mima View Post
    Don't adjacent uncommanded units have to attack on their turn? Does that mean Ansom is deliberately making all 5 dragon-filled hexes attack him at once?
    We've not specifically seen such rule mentioned, or demonstrated. We've only been told that stacks without a leader must auto-attack when in contact with non-allied units, but the term "contact" is vauge. It could mean at rest but adjacent, or it could mean "in motion and attempting to enter the same hex." The latter case however is all we have seen with leaderless stacks. As far as stacks with leaders, they have the option even if in motion of aborting their move rather then attacking.

    In fact, it remains to be demonstrated (to my satisfaction) that leaderless stacks can move to attack without (somehow) getting orders from somewhere. And since Ansom knows he himself can't just issue orders without some mechanism (hats, Archons, whatever) he'll assume Stanley can't either.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Anyone who thinks Ansom is just acting dumb at this point has not been paying attention. He has thought of something, to be honest I don't think we have enough information to see what it is.

    We know ansom has no lookomancers, but it said nothing about foolomancers. The trap is to leave ansom vulnerable and far away from reinforcements. I think he is going to get some veiled reinforcements from somewhere, so the healed dwagons attack him (stanley will not allow anything else), then the dwagon stack will get a shock when they try to take the arkenpliars.

    Either that or we really don't have enough information. Basically if the dwagons take out ansom next turn, capture the pliars part 1 is over in a huge anticlimax, and I have too much faith in the writing for that to be it. Something HAS to be up.

    Edit, I just thought of something else :D. Ansom just veiled his main stack and the stack in the middle is some sort of an illusion. Basically he is using the same trick backwards, which kind of fits the dialogue, this is a great trick, hey why don't I do the same thing!
    Last edited by Etheric; 2007-07-11 at 04:48 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    As said before, veiling something from someone who has to rely on scouts and hats anyway is slightly redundant.
    Not really. Veiling from scouts may be even more important, as it allows you to set up an ambush in the FoW, and wait for the enemy to walk into it even if they scout ahead.

    As for the "He relies on hats!" that was an entirely different brainstorm. The hats have nothing to do with the scouts, except that they could use them to report back at full range. They have everything to do with the fact that Ansom's lines of communication are restricted. Thus, isolating him away from the column severely limits his command options and thus his ability to react to what he's found in the Donut. Or rather, not found.

    He could have used all dwagons to destroy all sieges in one turn, veil them, and destroy more normal troops the next turn. Or even ambush the fliers.
    Ambush the fliers, perhaps. But not, I think, to mount any additional attacks on the column. The cut-off point between the A and B Dwagons was based on moves, not "how many do I need to hold back?" so I doubt the B-Dwagons would have been able to reach the column, attack, and withdraw to a safe distance anyway. Remeber, his plan called for using the A-Dwagons with the least move first, so those with longer range could hit deeper into the column.

    I think he is going to get some veiled reinforcements from somewhere
    See above re: line of communication. Also, if he had any available units that could reach (other then a pitiful few air units) he have taken them in with him. Veiling the air units now gets him nowhere. Parson knows he has them, and where the were (right where he was planning his ambush), will have been watching them (he's not dumb either) and will notice if they have suddenly "disappeared."

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Wow.
    The Gobwin Knob victory has just become trivial. Stanley would have to go far out of his way to boop up his own side's chances at this point.
    Nope. It is said somewhere that Stanley once held 11 cities. Now he holds just one. How many cities does the coalition have total? 30? 50? Even if the enitre column is destroyed, they can just build more troops. Even if Gobwin Knob is a very good city, they coalition can outproduce it ten times over.

    The only way for Parson to win this is to turn the coalition fractions against each other. That is, if GK survives the imminent onslaught.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Quote Originally Posted by ChowGuy View Post
    Also, if he had any available units that could reach (other then a pitiful few air units) he have taken them in with him.
    Not necessarily. Firstly he left Jullian and the archerons in reserve. Secondly he needed FOREST units to attack the dwagons. ANY unit can defend, particiularly if teh warlords get turned ot dust by the arkenpliars.

    Veiling the air units now gets him nowhere. Parson knows he has them, and where the were (right where he was planning his ambush), will have been watching them (he's not dumb either) and will notice if they have suddenly "disappeared."
    Ansom has rather a lot of units. It is possible to lose track.

    I do wonder if foolomancers can make illusions of units as well, in which case the other alternitive is ansom is cloaked and there is again nothing in the centre hex as I stated above. ALso if they can cloak units and make illusions then there is no way to know units have been cloaked.

    Fun. It is cool that we are back to where we were a few strips ago. ITS A TRAP, but is it a trap where there is nothing in the middle or where there is a stronger force than expected in the middle?

    Unless you really believe part 1 is almost over?, with what is frankly rather an anticlimatic ending.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    At least a few don't seem to assume the same truths, so I'll just state that I'm assuming these truths:
    - Most of his forest attack force is out of move.
    - No other units, aside from Jillian+Gwiffons, are in range to help.
    - He doesn't have the hats to contact the column anyway.
    Are we even sure that he knows what Stanley has done with the thinkamancer trio?

    I'm doubtful. It makes things more exciting that way.

    And it's just beginning to dawn over marblehead that Stanley is well and truly different from all the earlier encounters involving aforementioned 11 cities.

    Assuming Ansom doesn't pull a Parson, he's left to calling in Jillian, to help make his little defensive post in the forust (ed note: this erfworld spelling is getting to me...) a tough nut to crak... (ed note: oh dear)

    Alternately, he, Vinny and the bats may have enough move to make it back to the column, or even punch through the thin wall of dragons, at the cost of leaving the forest units behind.



    Also, who has noticed that Vinny shows only one tooth at a time, but not the same tooth, in this page alone? There was a debate before over him having only one tooth, but this... this probably deserves another discussion thread. Or not! Silly running gags...
    Last edited by Demented; 2007-07-11 at 05:31 AM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    *Sigh* I get annoyed when people declare something that has not even happened yet to be "anticlimactic". This boils down to nothing other than "The writer could never find any way to make this thing interesting."

    It betrays a lack of imagination and a lack of faith in the writer both.

    If you were to call something anticlimactic, please do so on something that has already been seen in the comic, and which didn't satisfy your sense of drama. You can't just dismiss something a version of something that hasn't happened yet as boring, thus indicating you personally can't think of a way it would be interesting.

    No, I don't think that something anti-climactic will happen, because so far the writers of Erfworld haven't disappointed me. But *my* ideas on what might possibly be anticlimactic and *your* ideas of what would definitely be anticlimactic can differ vastly.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Believe it or not we all sort of predicted this. Several people had suggested that Parson might have used a foolamancer to veil the units, but I know I for one had replied that even if it were possible (I thought it unlikely because it is so powerful), Parson had never had an opportunity to learn about that trick. And that is exactly how it developed in this episode. Well, I thought it was funny.

    Oh, and once again Parson gets extremely lucky, in that his ignorance did not hurt him and arguably helped. The first time was talking to Misty, and now this. Parson is leading a charmed life.

    Time for a rant. For the love of all things 2-dimensional, will people please stop thinking that adjacent hexes are in combat? They cannot even see each other! Combat only occurs when enemy units share the same hex.
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  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    ...Wow. Nice job as always...

    No General would willingly charge into the middle of a foray, thereby allowing himself to be surrounded, without a plan. Ansom yells out "Battle Formations!" That could mean that formations can give bonuses. I am an rpg guy, not a wargame / stack guy, but it seems to me we are in for an Rourke's Drift type of situation. Ansom's forces are surrounded and put themselves into a British square. With the heroic Ansom in the center, the units all gain bonuses (known and unknown) and at that most climatic moment, Ansom works out the Arkenpliers for a truly epic fight....but then i'm just guessing here...lol

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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Quote Originally Posted by Beren One-Hand View Post
    Also from a purely storytelling perspective, the authors are very fond of misdirection. Wanda explaining about veiled units makes everyone think about hidden units - I should say confirms thoughts about hidden units since half of the discussion about the dragon fort involved theoretical hidden units. We assume, as she is doing, that is indeed what Ansom thinks is happening. That's the bait.
    It occurs to me that we don't know whether the triniteyemancer could, in fact, veil the wounded dwagons. Presumably they do have some ability to veil units, since a previous use of that ability is the most straightforward way for Ansom to know that they have a Foolamancer and for Wanda to know that he knows*, but this may be beyond the limits of that power.

    *That said, another possibility is that the Foolamancer was captured from one of the factions now coming after Stanley's hide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waldgeist View Post
    I expected Ansom to scout the surrounding hexes once he noticed the central one was empty... Then he'd found the lake. BUT he didn't. Man, that guy's a really snotnosed big-head. It will be interesting to see the Tool <-> Hamster conflict on how to handle this. I hope so much Parson can convince Stanley of whatever he's planning...
    If Parson's idea is to capture rather than croaking Ansom, it should be easy -- just remind the Tool that it will give him the opportunity for personally gloating in Ansom's face.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-07-11 at 05:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Quote Originally Posted by Etheric View Post
    I do wonder if foolomancers can make illusions of units as well, in which case the other alternitive is ansom is cloaked and there is again nothing in the centre hex as I stated above. ALso if they can cloak units and make illusions then there is no way to know units have been cloaked.
    This has been discussed. Someone pointed out that the illusionary units they use to populate the board back at Stanley's tower are not very realistic; they would have to do a lot better than that in the field. And let's face it: in magic it is a lot easier to hide something than to make a convincing illusion that something is present when it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Etheric View Post
    Fun. It is cool that we are back to where we were a few strips ago. ITS A TRAP, but is it a trap where there is nothing in the middle or where there is a stronger force than expected in the middle?
    Charging into the center was a great tactical blunder. Ansom himself was probably within range of the real location of the wounded dwagons, but he just burned two more move and may not be any more. He did have the option of joining up with Jillian and the archons and assaulting the real wounded hex but that option might be unavailable, now. He is truly booped if he does not croak those warlords this turn. I still think his best option is to give the arkenpliers to Jillian--who should have enough move--and send her against the dwagons, with the gwiffons and archons supporting. As long as the warlords are re-croaked the pliers will not be lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Etheric View Post
    Unless you really believe part 1 is almost over?, with what is frankly rather an anticlimatic ending.
    If it ended on this strip I would agree. But it doesn't so I don't.
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    Exclamation Re: Erfworld 67, page 61



    I´m the only one who thinks that ansom and vinnie may have more move points than normal infantary? Bothe of them are flyers

    They know that their infantary cannot retreat, so they went to check the veil thingie...

    But i think they can return to the column safely, but not without losing all his forest units/archers...well...that would be enougth to let the dwragons runn freely over the column...

    Just my point of view...

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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    How would the veiling be balanced, since hiding units from visual inspection is fairly powerful, does it only work if 1 or 2 units can see them, if the units don't attack, or can it only be done to a very few number of stacks at once?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    To the people who say that Ansom dosen't have hats to report with:

    Look at the large, black thing on vinny's head...
    Horses have an even number of legs. Behind they have two legs, and in front they have fore legs. This makes six legs, which is certainly an odd number of legs for a horse. But the only number that is both even and odd is infinity. Therefore, horses have an infinite number of legs.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 67, page 61

    Quote Originally Posted by BarGamer View Post
    If I were in Parson's place, I'd give Ansom (or his eventual replacement) the most horrible runaround they've ever had the misfortune to experience. Make them doubt anything and everything they've relied on. Up is down, left is right, black is white, evil is good! Make them hesitate. Make them do risky maneuvers. Make them use their trump cards, that only make things worse. The string of "victories" is only the beginning. The Donut of Doom is only a foretaste. If before we've given Vinny suspicions, now give him outright paranoid nightmares. You can let them suffer, but play to WIN, Parson.
    "Gaslighting", that's called.

    Make the object of your affections begin to doubt what is real, or otherwise. It's hard to do well, but from a single person up to an entire army, it IS possible...

    (Think of all the fake radio traffic in the first Gulf War, making Saddam think they were coming in through Kuwait, while everything with move was doing the "Hail Mary Pass" movement...)

    I'd have Ansom looking at his own people as traitors by the time he gets to GK...

    PsyOps are fun.
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