Erfworld 67, page 61

[pendell]

Gentles,

Let's not get too excited about this development. There is still the possibility for it to go terribly, horribly wrong.

Why? Because Stanley is awake now. He's arrogant, he's not very bright, and Lord Hamster doesn't know how to manage him yet. There's a very good chance his 'contributions' can still wreck the plan.

And when it does, it won't be HIS fault now, will it? He'll scapegoat Hamster. Everyone who's ever been corporate knows how this works.


Not totally, mind you. But enough to keep Ansom alive and allow there to be a continuing arc.

I agree, this looks promising. But I ain't counting any scalps until they're safely hung on the barn door.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[SteveMB]

To the people who say that Ansom dosen't have hats to report with:

Look at the large, black thing on vinny's head...

If it's the same one Ansom was using earlier as his link to Jillian, it's one-way (receive-only, and perhaps only from the specific hat sent with Jillian and now in Webinar's possession).

[Scientivore]

How would the veiling be balanced, since hiding units from visual inspection is fairly powerful, does it only work if 1 or 2 units can see them, if the units don't attack, or can it only be done to a very few number of stacks at once?

Beats me. *shrug* Maybe if they're being led by warlords (keeping them from attacking), your stack needs to be worth more points than theirs to flush them out of hiding? I'm trying to imagine why Ansom went all-in instead of just sending in some woodsy elves.

[ShiningTed]

Just wanted to say how damn good the writing in this has been.

I know Rob had reservations about this style of story-telling (not being able to pull off a gag every strip like Rich does) but he is delivering EVERY strip, he really is. Kudos, Rob!!! (You too Jamie )

[Demonicbunny]

I'm thinking that since there is no need for Ansom to preserve his units (if there arn't a bunch of dragons in that hex) he might as well just blaze his way through the other side of the dragon circle and fight his way back to the column.

[Vreejack]

Beats me. *shrug* Maybe if they're being led by warlords (keeping them from attacking), your stack needs to be worth more points than theirs to flush them out of hiding? I'm trying to imagine why Ansom went all-in instead of just sending in some woodsy elves.

It's because he was so sure that it was just a simple trick on Stanley's part. Plus, as you say he might have needed a lot of units to expose the deception; obviously one bat was not enough. In for one schmucker, in for a thousand.

[darkgolem]

This page feels a bit Deus Ex Machina to me, in that an unknown and completely new factor is thrown into the mix, which could radically change the whole situation.

If you could veil units, then why did Ansom depend upon the bats for scouting?

The center hex was scouted by a bat and found empty, implying that scouting with a mob will discover veiled units.

However, now Ansom enters the hex in battle formation, implying that scouting a hex with a mob will NOT discover veiled units.

However, if that is the case, why is Ansom depending upon the initial scouting by vinnie's bats that found the original fortress.

I don't know if I buy that Ansom is entering the fortress for the purpose of fighting what he believes are veiled units.

However, he can't possibly believe he will take on the entire fortress in some massive batle.

Nor is it likely that he has the game equivalent to a nuke (that is, a massive multihex damage effect).. else why would he need seige for gobwin knob.

So Frankly, I don't know what is going to happen.

[factotum]

If it's the same one Ansom was using earlier as his link to Jillian, it's one-way (receive-only, and perhaps only from the specific hat sent with Jillian and now in Webinar's possession).

Do we know that for sure? We know that Jillian's hat was SEND only, but I don't think it's ever been explicitly stated that Ansom's will only receive.

[Krelon]

What does "Time out." mean?

Alliance end of turn? That would be just too good for Parson.

Ansom has divided his forces into 3 groups:
A Jillian+Webinora+heavies+flyers+archons
B column & siege (spread)
C Ansom+Vinnie+bats+forest capable units

he simply must do some things:
move A to provide air cover to either B or C
consolidate B to make hit'n'run more difficult
decide what happens with C.

if he&vinnie have move left, it'll be probably better to abandon the forest group
if he has no move it'll probably be better to pull everything into that hex and sacrifice himself to take out so many dwagons that the rest of the alliance can take GK

when Pason teleported to GK, Ansom had 4 times the strength necesarry to take GK. It makes sense that even if Parson wins the 'little battle' big time (removing siege, removing warlords,...) then Ansom (his successor) will still have twice the stregth needed to take GK and things will be very much depending on the tunnel fights (sounds messy and almost anything could happen there). In my opinion that is not anticlimatic, it's just moving the scenario from impossible to win to very hard but possible to win.

I like the way the authors have planned this. IF Parson can damage the alliance a lot then they [the authors] don't have to pull some rabbit out of the hat (like Stanley attunes to the plyers and insta-wins vs. 25x stronger enemy) which would be really unsatisfying from a strategy game point of view. Now there is a chance that superior strategy combined with personal heroism (Bogroll, Sizemore, Wanda, even Parson grabbing a sword and doing a last man standing in a crucial moment) CAN have a chance to win the day.

[SteveMB]

What does "Time out." mean?

In this context, it means to drop the current line of conversation and switch gears to a new topic.

[Etheric]

It's because he was so sure that it was just a simple trick on Stanley's part. Plus, as you say he might have needed a lot of units to expose the deception; obviously one bat was not enough. In for one schmucker, in for a thousand.

You have no conclusive evidence of that. That is Wanda's theory, and it kind of fits the evidence on the page, but it would also be very poor writing. SOMETHING is not what we think it is. A good story teller does not put his cards on the table that obviously. So far the story has been good, so I am sure you are wrong.

I agree with the above it does feel a bit Deus Ex Machina. Something is up, and it is probably something that we have not had explained properly yet. We might get more of a clue next strip I think. I do wonder what the Mm from sizemore in the previous strip means something. He understands magic, and he knows what is possible iwth it. If something is possible he will know.

I still stand by the statement of what is NOT going to happen, which is next turn the dragon stack piles in, croaks or caputres ansom and Vinny. The arkenpliars go to Stanley. At that point the story is over, Webnar becomes leader of the coalition, Jillian gets thrown out and teh dwagons nuke the rest of the collumn. There will be a better ending than that. Who is going to win I have no idea, but it will not be something that simple.

Hence Ansom is UP TO SOMETHING. He knows what he is doing. There is some sort of plan going on. It is not going to work 100%, but Parson is in for at least one shock when he hits the centre hex.

[grumbleboom]

One other thing that we don't know is how combat works when attacking a stack when BOTH stacks have warlords. It is possible that Ansom and crew will get firststrike on any attack that hits them.

If that IS the case, we know that Ansom can drop a dwagon in one hit. We still don't know how Vinnie and Tarfu fight, but we can assume greatness.

From Page 59, it appears that a group of woodsies that has a warlord can drop a dwagon and a single Gump can drop a dwagon as well. If you look at the map you see 4 light lines (probably 4 stacks of woodsies), one heavy line (probably 8 gumps), one medium line (bats?) and the three warlords (hopefully you know them)

4 stacks of woodsies = 4 dwagons
8 gumps = 8 dwagons
3 warlords = at least 3 dwagons

Now i know this is taking a HUGE assumption (firststrike) but those are some pretty mighty losses if i'm right and they do hit Ansom. And that's not counting the possibility of Jillian popping in for reinforcements... Oh, and i'm not forgetting about the undead warlords, just throwing this idea out there for amusement.

[SteveMB]

From Page 59, it appears that a group of woodsies that has a warlord can drop a dwagon and a single Gump can drop a dwagon as well. If you look at the map you see 4 light lines (probably 4 stacks of woodsies), one heavy line (probably 8 gumps), one medium line (bats?) and the three warlords (hopefully you know them)

We don't know how many hits they had to inflict before those final croaking strikes, or how high a butchers' bill they paid in the process.

[CNagy]

Unexpected, very unexpected. I still believe that tactically it isn't the greatest idea, but that's more a matter of preference (I'd have gone after the siege.)

However, Ansom is not out just yet. Assuming his troops have 1 more move (and honestly, we don't know how much move they have, only that they are running out,) he can attempt to burst through one of the stacks. Also, he can call upon Jillian, six Gwiffons, and three Archons. Since they would be coming straight to an outer hex instead of going around and coming through the opening, they will have conserved some move. Ansom could lead a pincer attack of his own on that stack of Dwagons. Once his troops and the aforementioned reinforcements show up, he is in a better defensive position. It's not perfect, but an unknown factor could make it perfect.

5 Gwiffons, not including Jillians. 5 Gwiffons with move left since they didn't need to circle the platter to enter. If even 3 survive the stack battle, out-of-move Warlords could mount up and ride back to the column (since it is so close.) Likewise with Jillian and the Archons, their remaining move could allow them to make it to the column. They would have to leave the remainder of the troops, but it is a necessary sacrifice. Ansom returning to the column would bestow his leadership bonus on all of the units in his hex, making that hex of the column too strong to safely attack.

It's speculation, but it is the best thing I can think of short of being given another new erfworld mechanics revelation.

[grumbleboom]

If you look in the first frame of the comic you can see 6 woodsie bows and tarfu. If that's the case.... they MIGHT have lost one. And my statement was a worst case scenario for GK... shoulda said that

[Stonedef]

He was hoping Ansom wouldn't scout, and would charge in blind. That Ansom would scout, then charge in knowing it was empty, was weird.

I think Ansom went in "knowing" The Tool was playing a trick on him by having the wounded units veiled in the center hex.

Instead of uncovering Stanley's cheap trick though(which it would have been since everyone BUT Parson knew you could veil units) he just dug himself deeper. Next turn Parson can hit Ansom (if he chooses to of course) with all the A and B units healed up.

Parson's confusion lies in the fact that he sees Ansoms move as a dumb one tactically, though if Parson knew you could veil units before this he might have expected it since he probably would have guessed that Ansom would think Stanley would do that... so he could work harder to make more money so he could buy more coke so he could work harder to make more money...

Kinda a series of circular assumptions, all made with missing information on the character's POV.. :)

[Caledonian]

Hang on. I just realized something, I'm curious. Today, Parson said, "[He moved] into the center hex? Why would he do that?" But just last page, he said, "I was kinda hoping he'd just go charging into the center hex."

Yes. It was Ansom's charging into the center hex, even though he'd first scouted it, that's confusing Parson. He doesn't understand the motivation, and so he doesn't understand the action - and anticipating Ansom's actions was the foundation of Parson's plan.

Ironically, being ignorant of all the mechanics may have helped Parson construct an more-effective trap. Not knowing cloaking units was possible, he made a scenario that would cause better-informed people to suspect the possibility.

[Logos7]

regardless of how booped or not booped ansom is, those arkenplyers still dust the undead warlords near instantly. I dont think this is a punch out but a MAD move (as in mutually asured diistrucution)

Parson jumps Ansom, and risks loosingn all his warlords and a significant number of his dragons and maybe capture ansom if the angels dont get meda vacked in, regardless the dragons have to do it in one turn. or the air units will get called in .

Mad for tthe win

Llogos

[B9anders]

here is something I don't understand - Apparently, Ansom is boobed by now. But why wouldn't this have been the case if it wasn't a trap and the nest really was there?

Sure Tool's forces would have taken some heavy losses from it, but surely the fort formation of dwagons would have boobed Ansom at the next turn anyway?

What changes the equation from Ansom's perspective to have made him think he would escape alive being surrounded when going in to hit the wounded stacks in the centre to all of the sudden being boobed when they aren't there?

[Tredrick]

Parson and Stanley are fighting a war, not telling a story. Having Ansom get let off the hook here would be bad writing and, quite frankly, bad generalship from Parson. Ansom and Vinnie are, to us, two major characters in a story. To Parson they are a dangerous enemy. To have them treated any other way would be untrue to what the story should be, a war story.

And Parson should croak them, not capture them. When the US knew where Yamamoto would be in WWII they just went out and killed him. They didn't launch some elaborate scheme to capture him. Parson should know this.

When telling a war story always remember that war comes first.

[DCR]

Ansom is boobed

...Thanks for the visual. I'm off to go BLEACH MY BRAIN now.

all of the sudden being boobed

AAAAAHHHHHH! He did it again!




Anyway, the risk of dying wasn't enough to dissuade the opportunity of wiping out a solid two-fifths of his opponent's strongest units.

Off to bleach my brain again, you horrible, horrible person, you.

[Stolfus]

Anyone else find it odd that Parson and Ansom are the only ones that constantly have fingers?

This mean Ansom is being played by another human?

[SteveMB]

here is something I don't understand - Apparently, Ansom is boobed by now. But why wouldn't this have been the case if it wasn't a trap and the nest really was there?

Sure Tool's forces would have taken some heavy losses from it, but surely the fort formation of dwagons would have boobed Ansom at the next turn anyway?

What changes the equation from Ansom's perspective to have made him think he would escape alive being surrounded when going in to hit the wounded stacks in the centre to all of the sudden being boobed when they aren't there?

The main thing that changes the equation is that Ansom expected to take out the uncroaked warlords. Without them, the remianing donut dwagons would (at least) be unable to focus on specific targets or (at best) not move on him at all (since he's not in the same hex). Which option it is depends on whether Ansom knows that Stanley has some other means of ordering the dwagons to attack -- while he almost certainly doesn't know about the triniteyemancer, he might know that Stanley has a Thinkamancer, which might be sufficient for the purpose.

[Caledonian]

The Erfen Mind Meld?

The Gamesters of Tri-Erfen?

Call them 'The Three'.

[SteveMB]

Ansom is boobed

Thanks for the visual. I'm off to go BLEACH MY BRAIN now....

all of the sudden being boobed

AAAAAHHHHHH! He did it again!

Now I have a mental image of Ansom as the artwork in one of the Munchkin "Curse: Change Sex" cards.

Pass the bleach....

[grumbleboom]

Heh, if Ansom did get changed to a girl, he might be able to win back Jillian's loyalty

off-topic...
<-- loves Munchkin. only played it once

[ralphmerridew]

Time for a rant. For the love of all things 2-dimensional, will people please stop thinking that adjacent hexes are in combat? They cannot even see each other! Combat only occurs when enemy units share the same hex.

There's a simple proof of that; Ansom was able to move into the middle hex after defeating one of the outer hexes; if adjacent hexes were in combat, he'd have to clear three outer hexes to get into the center.

[ralphmerridew]

Perhaps it's just me, but it seems that in the 2nd frame of the last row, Wanda has real hairpins again.
Isn't she still supposed to have sushisticks? Because no sushistick i ever used is pinformed with a little buttonthingy (technical term there) on the end.

Jullian is gone, so no fear that she will croak a small army with them, but I do wonder if it has any significance (as other small details do seem to have)

She took the chopsticks out when she went to sleep in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0049.html ; she put hairpins in when she got dressed for Tool in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0054.html

[SteveMB]

Perhaps it's just me, but it seems that in the 2nd frame of the last row, Wanda has real hairpins again.
Isn't she still supposed to have sushisticks? Because no sushistick i ever used is pinformed with a little buttonthingy (technical term there) on the end.

When she put the chopsticks in her hair, she was wearing a dark gray tube top with a skull design. Since then, she changed into a butch schoolgirl riding outfit, then back into a tube top (possibly the same one, given that it's hard to match colors seen only by light globe), then gone to bed, and then into another outfit to go find out what the boop Parson was doing messing with the triniteyemancer, and finally into a white kimono to "relax" the Tool. Presumably she replaced the chopsticks with proper hairpins somewhere along the way (especially since she wasn't wearing hairpins at all with several of the outfits).

[molotov02]

She took the chopsticks out when she went to sleep in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0049.html ; she put hairpins in when she got dressed for Tool in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0054.html

yeah, just noticed (oops)