League Of Legends LXVII: "MY PICK'EMS!"

[mrcarter11]

http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/n...update-shyvana
Shyvana kit changes.

Passive is lower stats, specifically 5. Doesn't scale with level anymore, get +5 for each elemental dragon your team has. Also 10% bonus damage to dragons.
W, dragon form no longer leaves trail, instead it's bigger.
E, dragon form is no longer wider, instead you can "detonate" it before max range to leave a fire field that marks for E
R, no longer resistances, bonus health (150/250/350), but does less damage and has less range. Also now uninterruptible.

Need to see how far the range got hit I think. Numbers weren't provided for that. The loss of so many resistances might be pretty painful as well I figure.

[Dienekes]

Built on a fantasy base.

With cyborgs, and robots, and aliens, and space empires, and teleportation, and sentient AI, and time machines, and champions that constantly talk about fairly advanced scientific concepts beyond what a fantasy culture with the tech of, say, Demacia would know, like black holes and atoms.

[Ashen Lilies]

http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/n...update-shyvana
Shyvana kit changes.

Passive is lower stats, specifically 5. Doesn't scale with level anymore, get +5 for each elemental dragon your team has. Also 10% bonus damage to dragons.
W, dragon form no longer leaves trail, instead it's bigger.
E, dragon form is no longer wider, instead you can "detonate" it before max range to leave a fire field that marks for E
R, no longer resistances, bonus health (150/250/350), but does less damage and has less range. Also now uninterruptible.

Need to see how far the range got hit I think. Numbers weren't provided for that. The loss of so many resistances might be pretty painful as well I figure.

R also has a larger model and wider hitbox that scales up with rank.

[mrcarter11]

R also has a larger model and wider hitbox that scales up with rank.

did I miss that in the article or is it listed elsewhere?

[Ashen Lilies]

did I miss that in the article or is it listed elsewhere?

The article mentions that her ult is "bigger". The information that it actually scales up with rank comes from other comments.

[thracian]

Fountain laser does not respond to cries for help when you attack a champion in the fountain. Using Ryze ultimate, you can port a bunch of minions into the fountain with you for a flawless fountain dive.

[lord_khaine]

Passive is lower stats, specifically 5. Doesn't scale with level anymore, get +5 for each elemental dragon your team has. Also 10% bonus damage to dragons.

I agree, it feels like a bad idea to tie her survivability in with killing elemental dragons. Either her team is ahead and is able to secure multiple dragons, or else they are behind, fails to do so and leaves a squishy Shyvanna who still needs to dive into the enemy team. Sounds a lot like a feast or famine situation.

[Renegade Paladin]

On the other hand, I very rarely have a problem securing dragon as Shyvana; she just has to maintain vision control and solo it.

[thracian]

just has to maintain vision control

I'll make sure to let all the pro teams know how easy it is to take Baron, then. They just have to maintain vision control, after all!

[Ashen Lilies]

As far as the dragon passive goes, I think the first incarnation of it (where she got true damage conversion/tower damage reduction/cdr/slow reduction based on elemental drakes taken) was more interesting. The new incarnation has the same gameplay incentives but with a stunningly boring payoff. 5 armor and mr! yay! Even if the first incarnation was likely overtuned in raw numbers, that could have been scaled back, and I liked the idea of Shyvana getting unique small bonuses from dragons taken rather than a flat resistances buff.

It seems to me that they thought most of the rest of her kit had become overtuned and they had to intentionally give her a very mediocre passive to compensate. Overall though it's not really a big concern to me. Shyvana's gameplay role as a jungler (forget about playing top shyvana. it's bad. it will remain bad.) is going to be a huge ******* to the enemy jungler, take their camps, and pressure objectives anyway, since her ganking is so poor and you can't just afk farm as effectively this season if you're only sticking to just your half. The passive is just additional rewards for doing what you should have already been doing anyway.

[Forum Explorer]

I'll make sure to let all the pro teams know how easy it is to take Baron, then. They just have to maintain vision control, after all!

There is a huge difference between getting vision on dragon vs baron. Mostly because junglers can solo dragon really easily, so it only takes a control ward in the pit, and maintaining scuttler.

The other big reason is because most of the other team is still stuck in lanes when you are taking dragons. So you really only need to worry about the enemy jungler.

[Ashen Lilies]

Maintaining scuttler isn't even necessary if you're playing someone who can hop over the wall easily, like Vi. In fact, /not/ having scuttler and doing the dragon from over the wall is neat in that it gives the enemy team a false sense of security.

You should probably be worried about more than the jungler, though. If either your mid lane or bot lane are pushed in it's still a very risky position to be in, and a wandering support can ruin your day just as much as anything.

[thracian]

There is a huge difference between getting vision on dragon vs baron. Mostly because junglers can solo dragon really easily, so it only takes a control ward in the pit, and maintaining scuttler.

The other big reason is because most of the other team is still stuck in lanes when you are taking dragons. So you really only need to worry about the enemy jungler.

Most players/teams will be fairly lax at warding first dragon in the early game as compared to Baron because you don't straight-up lose games based on missing a dragon sneak. If a jungler proves willing and able to solo-sneak Dragons, however, you can bet that wards start popping up over there much more often.

[Forum Explorer]

Maintaining scuttler isn't even necessary if you're playing someone who can hop over the wall easily, like Vi. In fact, /not/ having scuttler and doing the dragon from over the wall is neat in that it gives the enemy team a false sense of security.

You should probably be worried about more than the jungler, though. If either your mid lane or bot lane are pushed in it's still a very risky position to be in, and a wandering support can ruin your day just as much as anything.

Oh sure, but that's more a matter of watching your lanes. Something I like doing is waiting for the enemy lane (mid or bot) to back, and then quickly grabbing dragon while my allied lane pushes it back out, or helps, depending.

[lord_khaine]

Spoiler: TMS vs Unicorns

Show

Wow.. did not see that outcome comming..
Thought it would be a 2-0 stomp, not a 2-1 fight.

[Renegade Paladin]

I'll make sure to let all the pro teams know how easy it is to take Baron, then. They just have to maintain vision control, after all!

I didn't say anything about Baron. Shyvana as she is now can easily solo dragon; the same is not true of Baron or Rift Herald. A control ward, awareness of lane state in mid and bot, and some amount of knowledge of the enemy jungler's location is all it takes; either going when their jungler appears top or chucking a ward in the bush opposite the blue side's red buff so you can see the rim of the dragon pit. Essentially, if bot is pushed in I gank it, and if it's pushed out I take dragon. There is basically no situation where I won't be trying this on either Xin or Shyvana by level 6, and it's worked out pretty well so far.

[thracian]

I didn't say anything about Baron. Shyvana as she is now can easily solo dragon; the same is not true of Baron or Rift Herald. A control ward, awareness of lane state in mid and bot, and some amount of knowledge of the enemy jungler's location is all it takes; either going when their jungler appears top or chucking a ward in the bush opposite the blue side's red buff so you can see the rim of the dragon pit. Essentially, if bot is pushed in I gank it, and if it's pushed out I take dragon. There is basically no situation where I won't be trying this on either Xin or Shyvana by level 6, and it's worked out pretty well so far.

It was mostly me mocking the idea that you can "just" maintain vision control. Vision control is currently one of the two or three main differences between the very best teams in the world and the second-tier ones like TSM or EDG.

[Nadevoc]

It was mostly me mocking the idea that you can "just" maintain vision control. Vision control is currently one of the two or three main differences between the very best teams in the world and the second-tier ones like TSM or EDG.

This is definitely one of those cases where pro play is just a completely different game.

In the level most of us play at, it isn't terribly difficult to maintain vision control over dragon. In a decent number of my games, I don't even see the enemy team ward dragon until 15-20 minutes in; bot lane wards down near river brush and mid *might* ward bot side of their lane.

[Anarion]

This is definitely one of those cases where pro play is just a completely different game.

In the level most of us play at, it isn't terribly difficult to maintain vision control over dragon. In a decent number of my games, I don't even see the enemy team ward dragon until 15-20 minutes in; bot lane wards down near river brush and mid *might* ward bot side of their lane.

The flip side of that is that at the level most of us play at, if the support or the jungler wander into river and stumble into a fight, there's no guarantee at all that their own mid, bot, or jungler will actually roam up and join it, so you can throw really hard by going too far out and getting caught.

[Ashen Lilies]

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/fea...e-steel-shadow

Sort of a diving fighter with a similar-ish gameplay niche to Irelia. She gets a physical/magic damage shield based on who she's fighting, some auto-attack enhancers and CC tools, can dash to walls and then hop off them, and then her ult is sorta like a J4/Xin ult lovechild - you jump on someone and knock away everyone near them while creating a prison zone your target can't leave, though there's no initial damage or way to keep other enemies out after the initial knockback.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/champion-reveal-camille-steel-shadow

Sort of a diving fighter with a similar-ish gameplay niche to Irelia. She gets a physical/magic damage shield based on who she's fighting, some auto-attack enhancers and CC tools, can dash to walls and then hop off them, and then her ult is sorta like a J4/Janna ult lovechild - you jump on someone and knock away everyone near them while creating a prison zone your target can't leave, though there's no initial damage or way to keep other enemies out after the initial knockback.

Oh man. THIS is the sort of champion I'm excited about. I actually can't think of a single thing I dislike about the kit I saw.

More importantly, it showcases a bunch of really cool mechanics I think Riot underutilizes: multiple hit zone spells, conditional second effects, and timed risk/reward effects. Do you hold that second Q for the increased damage, or do you burst it immediately for the up-front hit and the assured damage? It's something that I think might be really interesting if it was ported onto more Assassin kits, for example.

Plus the passive makes laning smoother while evolving into more moment-to-moment based choices as the game evolves, and the ultimate has niche utility as a crowd-control effect to lock someone out of the fight -- something that I'm betting most people will miss due to raw bloodlust, honestly.

[Ashen Lilies]

Intentionally holding your attack for more damage is part of Fizz's new W and sorta available for Talon's Q: do I need to use it for the gapcloser, or can I find another way to gapclose so I can get that juicy crit?


More abilities that reward you for taking a risk is definitely something I approve of and want to see more.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Intentionally holding your attack for more damage is part of Fizz's new W and sorta available for Talon's Q: do I need to use it for the gapcloser, or can I find another way to gapclose so I can get that juicy crit?

Yep. But it's a design space I think would be interesting to consider in a bunch more situations as well.

[mrcarter11]

I'm excited for the champion, but I expect to see a cycle of nerfs unfold once she's released. There's just a lot of /stuff/ in her kit and that tends to problematic. Perhaps another Ekko.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I'm excited for the champion, but I expect to see a cycle of nerfs unfold once she's released. There's just a lot of /stuff/ in her kit and that tends to problematic. Perhaps another Ekko.

Possible, certainly. I think her kit is a little less problematic though -- there's more speed for herself than slowing for an opponent (which lets them retreat more), less sticking power, slightly less utility, and more circumstantial requirement for her gapcloser / mobility. Her ult is also significantly less safe.

Time will tell, definitely, but I'm not sure it'll be Ekko-levels of problematic. Few things are.

[mrcarter11]

Fair enough, less problematic than ekko, as you mentioned, wouldn't take a lot. Still feel like I'm gonna get use to seeing her name on patch notes. TF-BC-tank?

[Ashen Lilies]

Trinity AND Cleaver is pretty unnecessary. If you're looking for a second damage item (assuming that she's in that rough ballpark in terms of itemization) a Hydra seems better. The Tiamat gives her actual waveclear, too.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Trinity AND Cleaver is pretty unnecessary. If you're looking for a second damage item (assuming that she's in that rough ballpark in terms of itemization) a Hydra seems better. The Tiamat gives her actual waveclear, too.

I'm guessing that, based on her design, she's going to end up in the 2-3 offense item, CDR-loving category that we see champions like Fiora and Riven in. Just an initial guess would suggest that she might also love on-hit effects (two resets along make those tempting) and she DOES get an attack speed boost...

BoRK is something I'd say is worth considering, as is Cleaver and either Hydra, based on how much defense you end up actually wanting. I'm less sold on Trinity Force: I suspect she'll have enough AD ratios you'd want more damage. Seems like another candidate for Deadman's Plate as a defensive item, definitely.

[Ashen Lilies]

Two seems reasonable. Three might be excessive unless you're very ahead. It looks like she goes more HAM than Fiora does and has less upfront burst than a Riven -> more along the lines of a Xin Zhao, Vi, or Irelia in terms of having fairly reliable backline access and sustained-ish damage output, which means you'll need to become relatively tanky to get things done. CDR seems like it would be very amazing. The second clip on the reveal site has her use her wall-hop four times across the course of that fight, which is kind of nuts.

Edit: Her voice and taunts are amazing. Depending on how the Shyvana changes turn out, I might switch away from bot lane into being a top/jungle bruiser main again.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Two seems reasonable. Three might be excessive unless you're very ahead. It looks like she goes more HAM than Fiora does and has less upfront burst than a Riven -> more along the lines of a Xin Zhao, Vi, or Irelia in terms of having fairly reliable backline access and sustained-ish damage output, which means you'll need to become relatively tanky to get things done. CDR seems like it would be very amazing. The second clip on the reveal site has her use her wall-hop four times across the course of that fight, which is kind of nuts.

Yep. Also looking like she has fairly high AD -- her numbers aren't entirely revealed yet, but 575 HP at level 1 and 95 per level is solid, as is her 62 AD and 3.5 per level.

So it looks like she'll be falling right alongside Shyvana / Jax / Warwick as far as AD scaling, and basically equivalent to Shyvana / Illaoi as far as HP scaling. You're probably right on the two offense, unless her shield is bigger than I expect (or has AD scaling instead of something else, which is a possibility)

BC + BoRK / Hydra || Boots || Deadman's Plate + Spirit Visage || Flex Item of Choice is my guess for a core. Grants 30% CDR, solid damage, good durability, and a heal boost for her healing.