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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    +2 Dex
    +2 Con
    +7 Natural Armor
    Fly Speed 60 ft (average maneuverability)
    Breath Weapon (30ft Cone of Cold) 1 every 2d4 rds
    Spellcasting as 1st level Sorcerer (or +1 lvl of Sorcerer if you already have Sorcerer Levels)

    Won't say where I found it (I am sure some recognize it).
    Cheesy, Cheesy, Cheesy

    Legal source in the group I am playing in.
    Currently Playing: Aire Romaris Chaotic Good Male Half Celestial Gray Elf Duskblade 13 / Swiftblade 7 /// Elven Generallist Wizard 20

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WesleyVos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Yes, yes, and yes. No question, that's easily worth +1 LA, on almost any build.
    One of my players: "I hate you. I spent like...3 hours pouring over lists of items for bards. Reading, learning, analyzing, trying to improve my knowledge of the game, as I have a major decision coming up. You know what I decided after all of this? Vest of Resistance +3. Simply because you are that evil. No Cloak of Charisma, no Bardic Music enhancers. NOPE. VEST OF RESISTANCE."

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Of course, if I'm planning to go Sorcerer/Sorcerer-based gish. I'm guessing this is Dragonspawn or whatever from Dragonlance? I know it's based off of White Dragons.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Just for completeness' sake: LA buy-off allowed or not?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Only if I am a sorcerer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyVos View Post
    Yes, yes, and yes. No question, that's easily worth +1 LA, on almost any build.
    I get to use it on a Dragonfire Adept
    Currently Playing: Aire Romaris Chaotic Good Male Half Celestial Gray Elf Duskblade 13 / Swiftblade 7 /// Elven Generallist Wizard 20

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    digiman619's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostshadow View Post
    +2 Dex
    +2 Con
    +7 Natural Armor
    Fly Speed 60 ft (average maneuverability)
    Breath Weapon (30ft Cone of Cold) 1 every 2d4 rds
    Spellcasting as 1st level Sorcerer (or +1 lvl of Sorcerer if you already have Sorcerer Levels)

    Won't say where I found it (I am sure some recognize it).
    Cheesy, Cheesy, Cheesy

    Legal source in the group I am playing in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Only if I am a sorcerer.
    I don't know, that seems like it'd be awesome on an Unchained Monk, with the possibility of going Dragon Disciple into.
    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosi View Post
    In general, this is favorable to the casters.
    3.5 in a nutshell, ladies and gents.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromancer999 View Post
    Of course, if I'm planning to go Sorcerer/Sorcerer-based gish. I'm guessing this is Dragonspawn or whatever from Dragonlance? I know it's based off of White Dragons.
    Yep! you got it in one.
    Dragonspawn (white) from Dragonlance Campaign Setting p.222.

    Quote Originally Posted by AMX View Post
    Just for completeness' sake: LA buy-off allowed or not?
    .

    Yes, sorry shoulda mentioned that .

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Only if I am a sorcerer.
    Who cares about the Sorcerer Level, +7 Nat Armor? +2 to both Dex and Con? Flight?
    Good for about any build.

    Been toying around with Dragonfire Adept for the next run. Also been busily reading all the books we have as a group. Just about fell outta me chair when I found this.

    As a group we have every 3.0/3.5 book except; 3.0 Psionics Handbook / 3.5 Sons of Gruumsh, Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave, Sinister Spire, City of Stormreach

    Also have some third party stuff as well, which the DM takes on a case by case basis (along with Dragon Mag.
    Currently Playing: Aire Romaris Chaotic Good Male Half Celestial Gray Elf Duskblade 13 / Swiftblade 7 /// Elven Generallist Wizard 20

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    The only case I wouldn't take it without LA buyoff is for a non-Sorcerer caster. With LA buyoff, probably even then.

    I did once, in a one-shot where the GM said "bring all your cheese!", combine it, Kobold, and some Dragon archetypes to end up casting as a Sorcerer three levels higher than my level. Good times. Not remotely balanced though.
    Last edited by icefractal; 2016-10-18 at 12:36 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostshadow View Post
    Who cares about the Sorcerer Level, +7 Nat Armor? +2 to both Dex and Con? Flight?
    Good for about any build.
    Nah, you can get comparable things non-sorcerer-wise elsewhere. Not perfectly comparable, and the race would still be LA +!, but it wouldn't really be a worthwhile LA +1. Compare, say, a dragonborn water orc. You get better physical modifiers, albeit tuned against dexterity but towards constitution and strength even more (which is probably better), and you can pick the wings trait for some mediocre flight. You can't get the wings and breath weapon simultaneously, but I've gotta think that the breath weapon is a bit superfluous on any non-magical character (because you already have damage), and that any non-sorcerer caster is going to avoid this like the plague anyway. Is it the same as this LA +1 race? No, not exactly, because it's getting a kinda compromised or trade based version of these things. However, these versions seem to do the job well enough. And the point, then, is that you're basically giving up a level for some natural armor. And getting arguably worse stat mods (the orc gets +4 strength +4 constitution as the upsides). Which, to my mind, seems very much not worth it.

    So, yeah, seems mediocre for any build that isn't a sorcerer. Seems great for a sorcerer though.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    One thing that people often don't recognize is the value of dipping a single level of a casting class. Sure, the 1st level spells aren't terribly awesome (though they can be; even cantrips), but you also get to use class-restricted items, such as scrolls off the wizard/sorcerer's spell list.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2016-10-18 at 01:10 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ashtagon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    With LA buy off, that looks reasonable at +2 LA, and maybe even at +3 LA.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostshadow View Post
    Who cares about the Sorcerer Level, +7 Nat Armor? +2 to both Dex and Con? Flight?
    None of these things are as good as an additional late level of a decent class (especially if you are already planning to multiclass). Would you rather get +7 to NA, +2 DEX, +2 CON, and crappy flight, or time stands still? Dark foresight? Cunning brilliance? Orthos? Soul chakra?

    Yeah, if you're deciding between rogue 20 and rogue 19 with this template, the template is better. But if you have real class features, you might not want to mess with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Dragonspawn was updated in Races of Ansalom, and it's pretty not good now, so I guess you should talk to your DM and check that.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostshadow View Post
    +2 Dex
    +2 Con
    +7 Natural Armor
    Fly Speed 60 ft (average maneuverability)
    Breath Weapon (30ft Cone of Cold) 1 every 2d4 rds
    Spellcasting as 1st level Sorcerer (or +1 lvl of Sorcerer if you already have Sorcerer Levels)

    Won't say where I found it (I am sure some recognize it).
    Cheesy, Cheesy, Cheesy

    Legal source in the group I am playing in.
    Holy cow. lol. So, for +1 LA, you get casting as a sorcerer_level+1. And then get +7 AC. That alone would be beyond worth it.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    None of these things are as good as an additional late level of a decent class (especially if you are already planning to multiclass). Would you rather get +7 to NA, +2 DEX, +2 CON, and crappy flight, or time stands still? Dark foresight? Cunning brilliance? Orthos? Soul chakra?
    That's not even the comparison. The real comparison is between this and both that class level stuff, and the value of a good race. Race has a feat of value as baseline, and there's some real advantage to be gained beyond that.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
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    smile Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Wasn't there some serious drawbacks such as letting a dragon no-save dominate you at any time and any distance with this template? Yes "slay the dragon" is a solution that your party can attempt to do, but how that works out depends on a bunch of factors, and you'd probably be dominated to try to prevent that.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    That's not even the comparison. The real comparison is between this and both that class level stuff, and the value of a good race. Race has a feat of value as baseline, and there's some real advantage to be gained beyond that.
    For some reason I interpreted the OP's post as a template (pay +1 LA, get the stuff) as opposed to a base race. Yes, obviously any additional opportunity cost is a further strike against this option.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    White dragonspawn is a template, so you could stack it on top of your ideal base race (provided it's giant, humanoid or monstrous humanoid).


    @MisterKaws: I don't see any mention of white dragonspawn in Races of Ansalon. The revised Bestiary of Krynn does have dragonspawn, but it's still very good, better than the Dragonlance Campaign Setting version. With the update, your post-template type becomes dragon, instead of monstrous humanoid, and you can now apply the template to giants.
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Dragonspawn (white) from Dragonlance Campaign Setting p.222. It is a Template.

    Dragonspawn were turned into a race in Dragons of Krynn NOT Races of Ansalon.

    DLCS is 1st Party, Dragons of Krynn is 2nd/3rd Party.

    I was only asking about the template in general. In specific I am planning on a Whisper Gnome/White Dragonspawn Dragonfire Adept.
    Currently Playing: Aire Romaris Chaotic Good Male Half Celestial Gray Elf Duskblade 13 / Swiftblade 7 /// Elven Generallist Wizard 20

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by ExLibrisMortis View Post
    White dragonspawn is a template, so you could stack it on top of your ideal base race (provided it's giant, humanoid or monstrous humanoid).


    @MisterKaws: I don't see any mention of white dragonspawn in Races of Ansalon. The revised Bestiary of Krynn does have dragonspawn, but it's still very good, better than the Dragonlance Campaign Setting version. With the update, your post-template type becomes dragon, instead of monstrous humanoid, and you can now apply the template to giants.
    Bestiary is also 3rd party IIRC, We have mmost of the books as a group, but they are spread out amongst the 6 of us.
    Currently Playing: Aire Romaris Chaotic Good Male Half Celestial Gray Elf Duskblade 13 / Swiftblade 7 /// Elven Generallist Wizard 20

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostshadow View Post
    +2 Dex
    +2 Con
    +7 Natural Armor
    Fly Speed 60 ft (average maneuverability)
    Breath Weapon (30ft Cone of Cold) 1 every 2d4 rds
    Spellcasting as 1st level Sorcerer (or +1 lvl of Sorcerer if you already have Sorcerer Levels)

    Won't say where I found it (I am sure some recognize it).
    Cheesy, Cheesy, Cheesy

    Legal source in the group I am playing in.
    I'm fond of 2-year-old white dragonspawn kobolds (using the "child" template from Game of Thrones d20 for an additional +2 to cha, physical stat penalties, and a -1 LA). Have fun playing a 2nd level sorcerer as a first level PC.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I'm fond of 2-year-old white dragonspawn kobolds (using the "child" template from Game of Thrones d20 for an additional +2 to cha, physical stat penalties, and a -1 LA). Have fun playing a 2nd level sorcerer as a first level PC.
    That template is a crock of crap. Children have a -10 to Cha, at least.

    *Shudder*
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2016-10-18 at 03:46 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    LoyalPaladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    I've not only used this template in the past, but I'd totally use it again.
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  25. - Top - End - #25
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    i would throw that on my wild shape based druid/momf/warshaper in a heartbeat at creation, especially since my dm allows LA 1 races at creation at no penalty.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    i would throw that on my wild shape based druid/momf/warshaper in a heartbeat at creation, especially since my dm allows LA 1 races at creation at no penalty.
    As long has your using LA buyoff or in your case having no penalty I can't see a class/race/whatever that this wouldn't benefit.
    Currently Playing: Aire Romaris Chaotic Good Male Half Celestial Gray Elf Duskblade 13 / Swiftblade 7 /// Elven Generallist Wizard 20

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    That template is a crock of crap. Children have a -10 to Cha, at least.

    *Shudder*
    Your opinion is noted and deemed incorrect. Children are ADORABLE and loads of fun.

    One thing I look forward to when I finally fall in love and get married is having a lot of them. Hopefully, my wife - whoever she is - will agree.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Your opinion is noted and deemed incorrect. Children are ADORABLE and loads of fun.

    One thing I look forward to when I finally fall in love and get married is having a lot of them. Hopefully, my wife - whoever she is - will agree.
    An aboleth is neither adorable nor fun, and yet it has a titanic Charisma score.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Your opinion is noted and deemed incorrect. Children are ADORABLE and loads of fun.

    One thing I look forward to when I finally fall in love and get married is having a lot of them. Hopefully, my wife - whoever she is - will agree.
    Bleh.

    But instead of adding to the overcrowding pandemic, why not adopt? Lots of lonely kids need loving parents.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Would you accept LA+1 to get this

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Bleh.

    But instead of adding to the overcrowding pandemic, why not adopt? Lots of lonely kids need loving parents.
    Overcrowding pandemic? On the contrary, I believe we are suffering from a worldwide DM shortage. I say have as many kids as possible, and train them all in the ways of the Dungeon Master so that they can do their part to keep tabletop roleplaying alive.

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