Common Aggravating Table Behaviors

[Pex]

...not even as KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN?

No.

[Traab]

This is why I love one of my players the best. He likes hearing about big elaborate plans and set pieces almost as much as playing through them or running them, so if one of us doesn't get to execute one we tell the other about it.

No.

Too be fair, I wouldnt have recognized his real name myself. I would have gotten the reference though.

[Fiery Diamond]

(Still having fun with the multi-quote buttons)

For whatever it's worth, when it comes to media influences on most of my FRPG's, Star Trek re-runs, and "The Hobbit" cartoon TV movie, and these films that I saw in the theater when they were released:

Monty Python and the Holy Grail (no I didn't "get it" when I first saw it, maybe my parents did),

Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger,

Wizards (in retrospect maybe the most '70's film ever, a certain Mark Hamill played Sean, he would later turn up in a little film called.....),

Star Wars (in the schoolyard we actually would brag and compete about how many times we saw it, you didn't no way see it 20 times, where are the ticket stubs huh Ben!),

The Lord of the Rings (cartoon movie by the same guy who did "Wizards"),

Dragonslayer (I still have net yet seen a better Dragon the Vermithrax),

Excalibur,

Conan the Barbarian,

Raiders of the Lost Ark,

With Raiders we got a VHS machine, and a Tape of it, and modern times begins.


.Thanks guys, I never played a "MMO" (it actually was from this Forum that I learned of the existence of CRPG's)I'm trying to be tolerant, since I don't get peoples references to "Baldurs Gate", and "Final fantasy', but really I'm just appalled.
How can you even bare to communicate with someone who can't recognize the classics.



From Hell's heart I stab at thee!

KHAAAAAAAAN!!!

You DO realize that some people have never seen so much as a single clip of Star Trek, right? Like me? I'm 27 years old, never seen any Star Trek at all. The only actor's name I know from Star Trek is Nimoy. Why on Earth you'd consider a specific actor who did something in Star Trek to be some sort of iconic thing that everyone should be familiar with is beyond me. Apart from "redshirts get killed", "the holodeck", "live long and prosper", and "Beam me up, Scotty" (which I'm told is never actually said), of which I would assume at least one would be known to any given person, NOTHING in Star Trek should be considered iconic outside of the Star Trek fanbase.

[Âmesang]

…and here I am the kind of %&#$ who'd be making Babylon 5 references.

I'll always love Garibaldi for living in the 23rd Century yet having a Daffy Duck poster above his bed.

[2D8HP]

You DO realize that some people have never seen so much as a single clip of Star Trek, right? Like me? I'm 27 years old, never seen any Star Trek at all

Yes, when I chance upon a re-run now, my 11 year old mostly just laughs at the "prehistoric" hair (he does the same thing with old episodes of "Mission Impossible"), before he asks if he can put in a "Naruto" DVD. But can you imagine a time when if you wanted to watch something with sci-fi or fantasy elements Star Trek re-runs were pretty much your only option?
We'd get at most two "genre" movies a year, and sometimes if I got lucky (and held the antenna with my hand, while standing in the right place), I could see a bit of (Tom Baker) Doctor Who, Science Fiction books (usually from the 1940's and '50's were from the library (there was very little Fantasy on the shelves), and that really was all there was, so of course we watched Star Trek, "Twight Zone" re-runs while they had genre elements, weren't really "adventures", while the black and white episodes were OK, the color episodes of Lost in Space (most of them) were too silly, .and even as a little kid I could see that Batman was camp.
When "Star Wars" came out it was a very big deal, so no I really can't imagine what it is like to grow up in a time that has such a wealth of genre media, that you can make choices.
For us it was Star Trek or nothing.
Now dagnabbit, get off my lawn!

[Pex]

You DO realize that some people have never seen so much as a single clip of Star Trek, right? Like me? I'm 27 years old, never seen any Star Trek at all. The only actor's name I know from Star Trek is Nimoy. Why on Earth you'd consider a specific actor who did something in Star Trek to be some sort of iconic thing that everyone should be familiar with is beyond me. Apart from "redshirts get killed", "the holodeck", "live long and prosper", and "Beam me up, Scotty" (which I'm told is never actually said), of which I would assume at least one would be known to any given person, NOTHING in Star Trek should be considered iconic outside of the Star Trek fanbase.

Watching Star Trek is a mandatory requirement of all nerds and geeks. Please return all your roleplaying books to the store and hand in your dice. There are plenty of bars to choose from to drink beer and watch football. Have fun!

[2D8HP]

Please return all your roleplaying books to the store and hand in your dice. There are plenty of bars to choose from to drink beer and watch football. Have fun!

Um... a few times this last year I've actually drank beer, while reading role-playing game books in bars (Brennan's in Berkeley, and Rosamunde in Oakland) when they had football on the TV. Yes it was fun, but I didn't really watch the TV.
I found the "Downtown Brown" Ale delicious. Of the role-playing game books the 5e D&D PHB was the most useful, but the 7th Sea Core Rules were the most fun to read.

[Fiery Diamond]

Yes, when I chance upon a re-run now, my 11 year old mostly just laughs at the "prehistoric" hair (he does the same thing with old episodes of "Mission Impossible"), before he asks if he can put in a "Naruto" DVD. But can you imagine a time when if you wanted to watch something with sci-fi or fantasy elements Star Trek re-runs were pretty much your only option?
We'd get at most two "genre" movies a year, and sometimes if I got lucky (and held the antenna with my hand, while standing in the right place), I could see a bit of (Tom Baker) Doctor Who, Science Fiction books (usually from the 1940's and '50's were from the library (there was very little Fantasy on the shelves), and that really was all there was, so of course we watched Star Trek, "Twight Zone" re-runs while they had genre elements, weren't really "adventures", while the black and white episodes were OK, the color episodes of Lost in Space (most of them) were too silly, .and even as a little kid I could see that Batman was camp.
When "Star Wars" came out it was a very big deal, so no I really can't imagine what it is like to grow up in a time that has such a wealth of genre media, that you can make choices.
For us it was Star Trek or nothing.
Now dagnabbit, get off my lawn!

I realize I'm not exactly old, having my single-digit years be in the 90s, but as someone older than me I would think you would be aware that some people grow up not watching TV. The only TV I watched as a kid was Jeopardy and very rarely Saturday Morning Cartoons (hooray for a rusty TV antenna). I didn't start watching TV shows until the internet was ubiquitous and fast enough to stream TV shows. I also rarely went to the movies, with the majority of the movies I saw growing up being Disney and the like. I'm young enough that Star Wars was already all out (the original trilogy anyway), so that was my gateway to sci-fi/sci-fantasy movies. For people another decade or so younger than me, it shouldn't be surprising at all that they don't share your background. You really, really shouldn't be acting surprised when people two generations or so younger than you don't have the same idea of what's classic or iconic.

My years of growing up basically straddle the internet age. I didn't have reliable high-speed internet until I went off to college; my access to internet prior to that was very slow and not-so-reliable or, in the case of my very young childhood, non-existent. I suppose something that makes us different is that you just sort of assume that everyone is proactive about seeking out their consumptive entertainment. I... wasn't. If someone else didn't make it available to me, through no effort of my own, I simply didn't find it/engage with it. Rather than TV shows or movies, my focus was on books (and increasingly more on videogames as time went on, something that you are older than, given your comment about being older than Star Wars). There is a ton of sci-fi literature, and you don't predate all of it (though some of the best stuff came out in the years you were alive but I wasn't). I'll admit that a lot of fantasy novels are newer, though.

So... it's not so much about being able to make choices as it is about not-the-same things being available by default depending on when you grew up.

[2D8HP]

You really, really shouldn't be acting surprised when people two generations or so younger than you don't have the same idea of what's classic or iconic.

True, in retrospect it shouldn't, and now the realization that we in many ways lack a common language makes me sad.

Rather than TV shows or movies, my focus was on books (and increasingly more on videogames as time went on, something that you are older than, given your comment about being older than Star Wars). There is a ton of sci-fi literature, and you don't predate all of it (though some of the best stuff came out in the years you were alive but I wasn't). I'll admit that a lot of fantasy novels are newer, though.

While there certainly was Fantasy literature published before and during my childhood in the 1970's, I just didn't come across it. What I did come across a lot of was the Science Fiction of the previous 40 years (I can remember reading collections of short stories of the 1930's and '40's that I'd get from the school library). I don't know what school libraries are like now, but bookstores are quite different. Now on the shelves I see lots of contemporary fantasy fiction, a little bit of sci-fi, but very little of older stuff beyond Tolkien.

So... it's not so much about being able to make choices as it is about not-the-same things being available by default depending on when you grew up.

Earlier and other people's had a shared folklore that they could make allusions and metaphors of. That we are now so segregated by age and lack a common mythology to communicate with seems like a loss to me.
Oh well at least at this Forum we have OOTS!

[Cluedrew]

Personally I grew up in a household where TV was considered to rot your brains. I only got to see Star Trek at a friends house. Mind you I got to read a lot of books, I'll probably get any reference you make to say The Chronicles of Narnia.

But don't despair. Despite not having ever seen most of Star Trek I can understand the "common language" aspect of it because it has entered the common language, and so I have picked up on it just as I would any other word or phrase. So we learn to communicate with the people we communicate with by our nature.

[Segev]

…and here I am the kind of %&#$ who'd be making Babylon 5 references.

I'll always love Garibaldi for living in the 23rd Century yet having a Daffy Duck poster above his bed.

"MISTER Garibaldi! My good and dear friend!"

*Garibaldi turns on his heel and flees*

[cobaltstarfire]

I actually don't really like the whole "you don't know [thing]? What's wrong with you!?" response in general, whether for shows, books, people, or movies. It's really just rude.

I wish I could find that XKCD about teaching someone about a thing you are interested in that they don't know of, rather than being a scornful asshat towards them for not being aware of it. I mean wouldn't it be more fun for everyone involved to introduce someone to something you enjoy rather than shaming them for having not been exposed to it for whatever reason?


Though a lot of references (like KHAN!) are not ones that younger generations shouldn't get, since you know, that movie practically got remade a few years ago. Most of the time when people deploy a reference, they manage to do it in a way that still makes some sort of sense in context, so needing to be aware of the source isn't always necessary for there to still be a common language.

[JAL_1138]

Watching Star Trek is a mandatory requirement of all nerds and geeks. Please return all your roleplaying books to the store and hand in your dice. There are plenty of bars to choose from to drink beer and watch football. Have fun!

When I got back from D&D last Saturday, having bought Volo's Guide to Monsters at the FLGS where we play, I cracked open a bottle of Kölsch and turned on the college football game my alma mater was playing, and started flipping through Volo's during timeouts. The next night I took out the Planescape box set to read through during college basketball timeouts. The local AL coordinator schedules games around college sports, too, because otherwise too few players and DMs (himself included) would show up.

Sports is amazingly geeky when you get into it. There's so much to get into about player stats, tactical positioning, strategy, and it's all about who gets the high score.

And athletes themselves are becoming geeks. The Green Bay Packers players are avid fans of Settlers of Catan, for example. The Geek-Jock Divide is eroding.

[2D8HP]

I actually don't really like the whole "you don't know [thing]? What's wrong with you!?" response in general, whether for shows, books, people, or movies. It's really just rude

Yes it is. In my case it's usually "what's wrong with the World" (that it's changing so fast), seldom a "you".
But there is one major exception, that is when someone who knows more than a little bit about Dungeons & Dragons (deliberately?) gets the history of D&D wrong (people for whom it's new for them get a pass):

The complet AD&D 1e players handbook was publushed in 1994

That just really chaffs me (I got my AD&D PHB in 1979 dagnabbit)!



Wikipedia people, sheesh!

Spoiler: If anyone wonders:

Show

For some reason I'm bothered when folks dont know the history of Dungeons & Dragons, and I feel compelled to share the edition history of D&D.

Probably the first hobbyist wargame in english was:
Little Wars by H.G. Well in 1913


Which led to many others including:
Chainmail by Gygax & Perren in 1971


Dave Arneson used the Man to Man combat rules of Chainmail, created a role-playing game out of it and brought the idea to E. Gary Gygax who wrote:
Dungeons & Dragons by Arneson & Gygax in 1974


The Greyhawk supplement by Gygax & Kuntz in 1975

made it the playable game we recognize today, which led to the plain English translation of D&D (AKA "Basic") by Holmes in 1977, the sublime 48 pages of the "Basic" rules:


The '77 "Basic" rules only went to level 3, you were invited to use the older rules and supplements or the upcoming Advanced Dungeons & Dragons rules:

1977 Brought the first of the "1e" AD&D book The Monster Manual


The first Advanced - Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook was in 1978.


1979 the Dungeon Masters Guide


1981 brought a new "Basic" rules:

which along with the "Expert" etc. rules cemented the seperation of "D&D" from "AD&D".

1983 saw another revision of "Basic" D&D:


1989 saw saw the revision of AD&D into "2e AD&D without the input of Gygax, who had been exiled from TSR.



1991 saw the last seperate "Basic" rules, the easy to learn "black box":

(there was a 1994 version called "Classic" that was identical to the '91 version except for the cover and title page).

1991 also brought the "Rules Cyclopedia":

which went from levels 1 to 36.
BTW the '91 rules were once know as the "fifth edition" see here.

2000 brought the first WotC version of D&D, which they decided to call "Third Edition"?

which was soon followed in

2003 with 3.5


2008 brought 4e:


2014 brought the mightily fun "5e".

Spoiler: BTW

Show

@cobaltstarfire,
This picture is cool! Thanks for the link.

[GungHo]

Wizards (in retrospect maybe the most '70's film ever, a certain Mark Hamill played Sean, he would later turn up in a little film called.....)

I remembered my parents getting this on VHS thinking that it was a cartoon and therefore it was appropriate for children. They didn't learn their lesson and did the same thing with Heavy Metal.

[Lord Torath]

I wish I could find that XKCD about teaching someone about a thing you are interested in that they don't know of, rather than being a scornful asshat towards them for not being aware of it. I mean wouldn't it be more fun for everyone involved to introduce someone to something you enjoy rather than shaming them for having not been exposed to it for whatever reason?

Lucky Ten Thousand. That's one of my favorite XKCD strips!

[2D8HP]

I remembered my parents getting this on VHS thinking that it was a cartoon and therefore it was appropriate for children. They didn't learn their lesson and did the same thing with Heavy Metal.

I feel your pain.
I saw both "Wizards" (when I was nine), and "Heavy Metal" (when I was 13) with parents in the theater.
But what's worse was seeing "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", and "Tommy" with them (at seven).
I hoped that we would raise are kids better, but my wife puts on "Game of Thrones" while our son is in the room, "Oh, he doesn't watch, he's busy with his computer games".
*shudder*

[Jama7301]

Branching off the tech issues, I had a friend who would try to watch Youtube or Netflix during a game. Once, even when the TV was in an adjacent room to one we were playing in. He would get up and wander to the other room when it wasn't his turn, and wandered back.

[arclance]

…and here I am the kind of %&#$ who'd be making Babylon 5 references.

I'll always love Garibaldi for living in the 23rd Century yet having a Daffy Duck poster above his bed.

I would do that but I am one of the only two people here under ~35 who watched it so it would go over the head of most people.
If we ever organize another FFG Star Wars game I want to do a social build based on Londo Molari that causes stamina damage by yelling at people.

[2D8HP]

I would do that but I am one of the only two people here under ~35 who watched it so it would go over the head of most people.
If we ever organize another FFG Star Wars game I want to do a social build based on Londo Molari that causes stamina damage by yelling at people.

Mostly forgotten genre media is a goldmine!
Everyone remembered "Conan the Barbarian", so I couldn't steal use as inspiration anything from that, but "Conan the Destroyer" I could use scot-free!

[Stealth Marmot]

I hoped that we would raise are kids better, but my wife puts on "Game of Thrones" while our son is in the room, "Oh, he doesn't watch, he's busy with his computer games".
*shudder*

"What is he playing anyway?"

"Oh some religious game I think, 'Saint's Row 4?'"

"OH GEEZ-!" *darts off to check on kid*

[cobaltstarfire]

I would do that but I am one of the only two people here under ~35 who watched it so it would go over the head of most people.

I'm sure there's more than two of us! It ran concurrently with DS9, and the tail end of TNG.

[Quertus]

I actually don't really like the whole "you don't know [thing]? What's wrong with you!?" response in general, whether for shows, books, people, or movies. It's really just rude.

I wish I could find that XKCD about teaching someone about a thing you are interested in that they don't know of, rather than being a scornful asshat towards them for not being aware of it. I mean wouldn't it be more fun for everyone involved to introduce someone to something you enjoy rather than shaming them for having not been exposed to it for whatever reason?

Though a lot of references (like KHAN!) are not ones that younger generations shouldn't get, since you know, that movie practically got remade a few years ago. Most of the time when people deploy a reference, they manage to do it in a way that still makes some sort of sense in context, so needing to be aware of the source isn't always necessary for there to still be a common language.

"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra".

[Âmesang]

"The movie's called 'Child's Play'! He'll be fine!"

[2D8HP]

"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra".

"Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel"

"The movie's called 'Child's Play'! He'll be fine!"

I'm the plumber at the San Francisco Hall of Justice, and a lot of my work is repairing "custody" fixtures.
To keep the inmates on the 7th floor pacified the deputies play DVD's and the feed from cable television. One of the "gems" they viewed was a "Chucky" movie.

[cobaltstarfire]

"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra".

I don't think the language barrier that exists between people that are generations apart is quite as bad as what we saw in that episode.

[2D8HP]

I don't think the language barrier that exists between people that are generations apart is quite as bad as what we saw in that episode.

After last night I can't be sure.
To the young folks on this Forum:
Sorry, you deserve better.

[arclance]

I'm sure there's more than two of us! It ran concurrently with DS9, and the tail end of TNG.

By here I meant my local gaming group.
That really was not clear in retrospect.
I am sure there are at least 10 people on the forum who remember Babylon 5 well enough to get references to it.

[2D8HP]

By here I meant my local gaming group.
That really was not clear in retrospect.
I am sure there are at least 10 people on the forum who remember Babylon 5 well enough to get references to it.

Mostly I remember that Lennier restored a ZX-11 (I worked at a Kawasaki motorcycle shop when that episode was broadcast).

[CantigThimble]

…and here I am the kind of %&#$ who'd be making Babylon 5 references.

I'll always love Garibaldi for living in the 23rd Century yet having a Daffy Duck poster above his bed.

Put your face. In the Book.

(I know the grammar is wrong but I'm just trying to communicate the inflection)