Kensei/Swordsage Monastic Tradition - Second Try

[Sicarius Victis]

Alright, third try at this thing. Let's see how this one goes.

Author comments in spoilers.

The Sublime Way
While there are many difference between separate traditions, most share a single common goal: Perfection. Some seek it through mastery of the physical body, some seek it through mastery of the elements, and some even seek it through mastery of death itself. Some monks, though, look outside themself for perfection. They seek it through mastery of their weapons, through the joining of body and blade that their training creates, through the deadly dance of flesh and steel that most simply refer to as "combat". Through extensive training, these monks have become masters of the Sublime Way, a collection of some of the deadliest fighting styles created.
Many monks embrace some form of art. For those of the Sublime Way, however, war is their art. And they are experts at their craft.

Spoiler: Comments

Show

Also, a quick comment on this subclass: It's intended to be a bit more martial and a bit less magical than the standard Monastic Traditions.

Weapon Training
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you may spend an hour training with any one melee weapon to designate it as your Focus Weapon. This training may be done as part of a rest. After this training, you gain proficiency with that weapon, and may treat it as a monk weapon if you could not originally.
You may only have one Focus Weapon at a time. You may not designate a weapon with the Heavy property as a Focus Weapon. If you make a new weapon your Focus Weapon while you already have one, the older one is no longer considered a Focus Weapon.

Spoiler: Comments

Show

This is intended to somewhat emulate the Kensei's style, as well as partially limit the character's combat ability. If they want to use every weapon perfectly, they should be playing a fighter. However, they gain a bit more versatility than the Kensei, to avoid stupid things happening when they lose the one weapon they're capable of wielding at all or something stupid like that.

I am currently debating the pros and cons of allowing them to choose ranged weapons as Kensei Weapons, for a Zen Archer feel. My main problem with that is the possibility of combining Flurry, Weapon Mastery, and Sharpshooter.

The Sublime Way
Starting at 3rd level, you also gain an amount of proficiency in the use of various techniques to enhance your combat abilities.
Maneuvers: You may spend five minutes meditating and exercising to prepare up to three Sublime Techniques, as detailed further on. You may spend five minutes exercising at any time to reselect your prepared Techniques. You learn to prepare one additional Technique of your choice at 6th, 11th, and 17th level.
Many Techniques involve making attacks in some way. These attacks must be made using either your Kensei Weapon or an unarmed attack. Only one Technique may affect a single attack.
All Techniques have a level requirement for preparing them. This refers to your Monk level, not your character level.
Saving Throws. When one of your Techniques requires your target to make a saving throw to resist the Techniques effects, use your Ki save DC.

Spoiler: Martial Techniques

Show

Level 3:

• Burning Blade: When you take the Attack action on your turn, you may spend two Ki points to add fire damage equal to your Wisdom modifier to all weapon attacks that hit on that turn.

• Charging Minotaur: When you take the Attack action on your turn, you may spend one Ki point to move up to your speed towards one opponent. This movement occurs before the attacks, and does not provoke opportunity attacks.

• Counter Charge: When an opponent enters your reach, you may spend one Ki point as a reaction and choose either Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics). You and that opponent then make opposed checks using the chosen skill. If you win, you may move the opponent up to 10 feet in any direction, and if they leave your reach because of this they cannot enter your reach again until the beginning of your next turn.

• Flame's Blessing: As a bonus action on your turn, you may spend two Ki points to gain resistance to one damage type of your choice until the beginning of your next turn. The chosen type can be fire, cold, acid, thunder, or electricity.

• Hunter's Sense: As a bonus action on your turn, you may spend two Ki points to instantly learn the position of all creatures within 30 feet of you, even if they are hidden or invisible. You continue to know the position of each creature until they leave the space they were in when you used this ability.

• Island of Blades: As a bonus action on your turn, you may spend one Ki points to grant all allies within 10 feet advantage on attack rolls against targets that you and at least one ally are adjacant to. This advantage lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

• Sapphire Nightmare Blade: When you take the Attack action on your turn, you may spend one Ki point and attempt a single Insight check. If the Insight check beats the AC of any creature within your reach, you gain advantage on all weapon attacks against that creature until the end of your turn.

• Shadow Blade Technique: When you make a weapon attack and you have advantage on that attack, you may spend one Ki point before making the attack roll. If you do so, and both rolls would have hit your target, that target also takes cold damage equal to your Martial Arts die plus your WIS modifier.

• Stance of Clarity: As a bonus action on your turn, you may spend one Ki point and choose a target. For the next minute, that target gets disadvantage on all attack rolls against you, and all other opponents get advantage on attack rolls against you.

• Stone Bones: As a bonus action on your turn, you may spend two Ki points to get resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage until the beginning of your next turn.

Level 6:

Level 11:

Level 17:

More to come.

Weapon Mastery
Beginning at 6th level, your weapons become little more than an extension of your physical self. You may make a weapon attack with your Focus Weapon in place of any unarmed strike you make. When you do this your Focus Weapon's damage dice are replaced by your unarmed strike damage dice.

Spoiler: Comments

Show

Thus, they can use the damage type and magical effects of a weapon they have for Martial Arts and Flurry, without the option of 2H-ing a longsword for four attacks at 1d10+X damage at level six. Honestly, this ability is more intended for flavour than anything else. I feel like a monk who specializes in the use of certain weapons should actually be able to make use of them for his extra attacks. And thank you, Gr7mm Bobb, for the improved wording.

This is still a work in progress, but hopefully it's still better than what I'd done before.

[Gr7mm Bobb]

Weapon Mastery
Beginning at 6th level, your weapons become little more than an extension of your physical self. Whenever an effect would allow you to make an unarmed attack, such as Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows, you may make an attack with your focus weapon instead. If you could not normally make an attack with your Focus Weapon, the damage die of your weapon cannot be higher than your Martial Arts damage die. If it would normally be higher than that, it is still limited to the size of your Martial Arts die. In addition, you may have one additional weapon designated as a Focus Weapon, and you may designate two weapons over the course of one hour.

Thus, they can use the damage type and magical effects of a weapon they have for Martial Arts and Flurry, but it prevents the stupidity of a 6th-level greatsword-wielding monk attacking for 8d6+(4×Dex) per round. Honestly, this ability is more intended for flavour than anything else. I feel like a monk who specializes in the use of certain weapons should actually be able to make use of them for his extra attacks.

This is still a work in progress, but hopefully it's still better than what I'd done before.

I like your design approach with this over all, especially the mix of Ki usage and Fighter Maneuvers. Not sure if the maneuver dice needs to be upped at later levels.

I do have a wording suggestion to help get your intent out there in a way with more brevity.

Weapon Mastery

Spoiler

Show

Beginning at 6th level, your weapons become little more than an extension of your physical self. You may make a weapon attack with your Focus in place of any unarmed strike you make. When you do this your Focus Weapon damage dice are replaced by your unarmed strike damage dice.

This should cover everything you have listed to prevent issues with munchkin occurring. That being said I might even recommend adding a fluff feature here that is in line with the Battlemaster or Mastermind Archetype.

If I left glaring holes in balance or it is not the aspect of clarity I imagine, please let me know and I'll go back to my corner.

[PapaQuackers]

I would like to point out that your maneuver use is going to be heavily stinted in the early game compared to the fighter, and then far outstrip him later on. Monks, IIRC, get 20 ki points total. That means you could use up to 20 maneuvers before a long rest. I would suggest perhaps making altered versions of the maneuvers that have a little more oomph but cost more ki points so they feel more impact-full.

Not to mention that's letting me eventually add a D12 to my attacks 20 times a day without having to sacrifice anything in the action economy. An extra 20D12 a day seems like a bit much :P.

The 6th level ability is now mostly for flavor, since you have changed it to what I suggested long ago, but when magic weapons come into the mix it can become problematic. That being said it'll all depend on how prevalent magic items actually are in your game and balancing around them is usually a fool's errand.

Here's my main issue so far though, so far this just feels like a battle-master. It has the same maneuvers, and uses the same mechanic and now can wield any type of weapon it likes. I would perhaps do something besides forcing them to spend Ki Points on maneuvers to make it feel more Monk like.

Hell, the ability to infuse your weapon with Ki off the top of my head would be neat. Or perhaps something Tai chi like where you can enter stances that will allow you to accumulate Ki while using your Sublime Weapon and fulfilling certain criteria.

(Disclaimer this is a rough idea and probably not balanced)

Way Of The Flowing Water:
Entering this stance costs 1 point of Ki and maintaining this stance costs another point of Ki each round. You must be wielding your sublime weapon in order to enter this stance.

The way of the flowing water exemplifies using graceful movement to dance around the battlefield, just as water must change to fit the shape that holds it, so to do your attacks change to fit the flow of the battle. While in the stance of the flowing water you gain the following effects.

- Each time you use the disengage action and move at least 15ft you may make a melee attack against a target within range.
- When taking the dodge action, each time you are attacked you may move 5ft around the target that is attacking you.
- When you make an attack action while in this stance you may choose to halve all damage you deal in order to double the amount of attacks you make.
- Each time you strike an enemy while making the disengage action you will recover one point of ki.

Obviously that's just some rough spit balling, but I think it strikes the feeling of making me different than just a monk with a sword while maintaining the idea that I'm a master of the craft who has trained profusely.

[Sicarius Victis]

I like your design approach with this over all, especially the mix of Ki usage and Fighter Maneuvers. Not sure if the maneuver dice needs to be upped at later levels.

I do have a wording suggestion to help get your intent out there in a way with more brevity.

Weapon Mastery

Spoiler

Show

Beginning at 6th level, your weapons become little more than an extension of your physical self. You may make a weapon attack with your Focus in place of any unarmed strike you make. When you do this your Focus Weapon damage dice are replaced by your unarmed strike damage dice.

This should cover everything you have listed to prevent issues with munchkin occurring. That being said I might even recommend adding a fluff feature here that is in line with the Battlemaster or Mastermind Archetype.

If I left glaring holes in balance or it is not the aspect of clarity I imagine, please let me know and I'll go back to my corner.

That feels alright. I'm actually toying around with limiting the damage dice of the Focus Weapon to the Martial Arts damage in general, not just for those attacks. That makes greatsword a suboptimal choice for them in general, but why should they be good weapons for monks in the first place, right?

I would like to point out that your maneuver use is going to be heavily stinted in the early game compared to the fighter, and then far outstrip him later on. Monks, IIRC, get 20 ki points total. That means you could use up to 20 maneuvers before a long rest. I would suggest perhaps making altered versions of the maneuvers that have a little more oomph but cost more ki points so they feel more impact-full.

Well, the maneuvers compete with a lot of other things for Ki usage. I mean, altogether they could create amazing nova potential, but that would use up most or all of your Ki until your next rest. I'm considering making the attack-based maneuvers have to be used BEFORE the attack roll, though. That might help.

Not to mention that's letting me eventually add a D12 to my attacks 20 times a day without having to sacrifice anything in the action economy. An extra 20D12 a day seems like a bit much :P.

It uses the Martial Arts die, so it goes from d4-d10 instead of d8-d12

The 6th level ability is now mostly for flavor, since you have changed it to what I suggested long ago, but when magic weapons come into the mix it can become problematic. That being said it'll all depend on how prevalent magic items actually are in your game and balancing around them is usually a fool's errand.

As a general rule, I try not to balance things around magic items. However, the use of magic weapons is part of what this is intended to do anyways. As well as weapon properties such as reach and finesse.

Here's my main issue so far though, so far this just feels like a battle-master. It has the same maneuvers, and uses the same mechanic and now can wield any type of weapon it likes. I would perhaps do something besides forcing them to spend Ki Points on maneuvers to make it feel more Monk like.

Honestly, that's my main problem with it so far as well. I've been considering disallowing them to use some of the Battlemaster maneuvers, and instead creating some special maneuvers for them based more off of Desert Wind, Shadow Hand, and similar abilities.

Hell, the ability to infuse your weapon with Ki off the top of my head would be neat. Or perhaps something Tai chi like where you can enter stances that will allow you to accumulate Ki while using your Sublime Weapon and fulfilling certain criteria.

I've also been considering the use of stances in addition to maneuvers in general, with Battlemaster and Sword Monk getting a somewhat different list of stances.

Way Of The Flowing Water:
Entering this stance costs 1 point of Ki and maintaining this stance costs another point of Ki each round. You must be wielding your sublime weapon in order to enter this stance.

The way of the flowing water exemplifies using graceful movement to dance around the battlefield, just as water must change to fit the shape that holds it, so to do your attacks change to fit the flow of the battle. While in the stance of the flowing water you gain the following effects.

- Each time you use the disengage action and move at least 15ft you may make a melee attack against a target within range.
- When taking the dodge action, each time you are attacked you may move 5ft around the target that is attacking you.
- When you make an attack action while in this stance you may choose to halve all damage you deal in order to double the amount of attacks you make.
- Each time you strike an enemy while making the disengage action you will recover one point of ki.

That does sound quite intereeting. Not the thought I'd had in mind for stances, but still quite interesting.

Obviously that's just some rough spit balling, but I think it strikes the feeling of making me different than just a monk with a sword while maintaining the idea that I'm a master of the craft who has trained profusely.

Yeah, I'm still working on trying to get that feel as well.

[Gr7mm Bobb]

oh wow, ok. I hadn't realized that your martial arts dice continued to graduate. I was totally ok with them being d4's with the potential to become d6's later (like 10th level). Also the idea of modularity sounds nice. I think submortimer had a Kensai fighter archetype on the forums (if memory serves the polished version is on the middle finger of vecna). Maybe that can help provide some inspiration.

[Nifft]

Suggestions:

- Don't use both Superiority Dice and Ki Points. Just use Ki, which replenishes itself every Short or Long rest, so it's got the same resource usage profile as Superiority Dice.

- So, just allow one Ki point => one Maneuver.

- If the maneuver grants extra damage, use the Martial Arts damage dice size, which is probably in the right ballpark.

- IRON HEART SURGE. Er, I mean, there should be some obviously badass Maneuvers, in addition to trick dexterous Monk stuff.

[Sicarius Victis]

To be honest, I had forgotten about this one. Didn't expect it to get brought up again.

Suggestions:

- Don't use both Superiority Dice and Ki Points. Just use Ki, which replenishes itself every Short or Long rest, so it's got the same resource usage profile as Superiority Dice.

- So, just allow one Ki point => one Maneuver.

- If the maneuver grants extra damage, use the Martial Arts damage dice size, which is probably in the right ballpark.

That's...basically what it was intended to do in the first place, though I suppose I had just worded it poorly.

- IRON HEART SURGE. Er, I mean, there should be some obviously badass Maneuvers, in addition to trick dexterous Monk stuff.

I was planning on trying to make a few more maneuvers from the ToB, as well as giving this one a modified list. I'm not quite sure how I could do an Iron Heart Surge without the 3.5 stupidity, and without the Monk's already rather effective saves making it a "win" button.

To be honest, I was planning on adding manuevers that were more based off of Desert Wind/Shadow Hand than the rest anyways.

[Nifft]

To be honest, I had forgotten about this one. Didn't expect it to get brought up again.

I found it via the PEACH exchange thread.

To be honest, I was planning on adding manuevers that were more based off of Desert Wind/Shadow Hand than the rest anyways.

Those are cool schools.

The only trouble I foresee is that the major abilities for both schools are already in two of the core Monk archetypes: Desert Wind is kinda-sorta Four Elements, and Shadow Hand is 100% Shadow Monk.