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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Tumor Familiar: How does it break the game?

    I'm playing a bomb-focused Alchemist, and just got to level 2. Now, I'm trying to pick my first Discovery. I've heard that Tumor Familiar can totally overpower the action economy (and also that a Protector tumor familiar will make you very hard to kill). However, I'm not entirely sure how the "break the action economy" part works. Does it involve using your familiar to use extracts on you? What other things do you need to make it work?

    I'm also considering Tanglefoot Bombs and Infusion for my Discovery, but the thematic concept of having a monkey on my back is pretty cool.
    Last edited by The Great Wyrm; 2016-10-30 at 11:32 AM.

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    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tumor Familiar: How does it break the game?

    I assume it's because it has an extra set of actions every round.

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    Necroticplague's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tumor Familiar: How does it break the game?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Wyrm View Post
    I'm playing a bomb-focused Alchemist, and just got to level 2. Now, I'm trying to pick my first Discovery. I've heard that Tumor Familiar can totally overpower the action economy (and also that a Protector tumor familiar will make you very hard to kill). However, I'm not entirely sure how the "break the action economy" part works. Does it involve using your familiar to use extracts on you? What other things do you need to make it work?

    I'm also considering Tanglefoot Bombs and Infusion for my Discovery, but the thematic concept of having a monkey on my back is pretty cool.
    Poisoner's Gloves+Infusion+Tumor Familiar=Letting you smack yourself with two buffs at the start of combat without any of your own in-combat actions being used. Protector familiar archetype synergizes well with Tumor Familiar because Tumor Familiars have Fast Healing when attached to you, so they can take great advantage of it's 'take damage for your master' abilities.
    Avatar by TinyMushroom.

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    Xuldarinar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tumor Familiar: How does it break the game?

    Personally, I favor the figment familiar for this purpose. Though.. Perhaps more so I favor it for an eyebiter's familiar but I digress.

    The ability to apply evolution points to a tumor, however, is thematically pleasing and can certainly pave the way for some interesting options. Though, I'll admit protector is likely the best.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tumor Familiar: How does it break the game?

    You don't even need prisoner's gloves if your GM lets you get grab syringe spears. But yeah break the action economy by having your monkey familiar stab you with an extract of Haste and get a full attack off in one turn. Or force feed you mutaten while you move and buff yourself. Really however you want to do it your tumor familiar can be effectively an extra standard action per turn on an alchemist. Just make sure they're adequately protected with armor and magic items because they have low hp and will be going into the thick of battle with you.

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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Tumor Familiar: How does it break the game?

    I think "breaking the game" or even "breaking the action economy" might be overstating it a bit.

    Having the familiar isn't enough by itself. You'll also need the "infusion" discovery, so that's not until level 4 (level 3 if you spend a feat for it). You'll also need either a very specific magic item that you can't make yourself without spending another feat or discovery or permission from the GM to do it another way. To do what? Blow through your very limited extracts per day even faster? You have other ways to do this without even using a tumor familiar, and a wizard can be doing the very same thing with a wand at level 5 with a free feat and no hit to their spells/day at all. In a non-optimized game, you'd honestly be more frightening with a TWF/bomb nova build.

    Tumor familiar with protector archetype (or some other way to share damage), though... Ioun wyrd + pearly white spindle (regeneration), spontaneous healing and healing touch discoveries, and the fast healer feat chain (especially if you have access to rage and/or have stacked Con) can keep you going for a long time, and fast healer applies separately to fast heal and regen, so you can double up once you have access to both. I've been working on a "last man standing" sort of build and an alchemist can be very, very hard to put down, if that's your thing.
    Last edited by MasterFu; 2016-10-30 at 09:27 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Tumor Familiar: How does it break the game?

    Since I'll likely be using Infusion anyway, I'll take that for my 2nd level discovery. This way, I won't have to commit to using Tumor Familiar until 4th level.

    Or maybe I'll take Tanglefoot Bombs level 2, Infusion level 4 (when I will actually have enough extracts to share), and Tumor Familiar level 6. Of course, I will get Fast Bombs at level 8.
    Last edited by The Great Wyrm; 2016-10-30 at 09:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Tumor Familiar: How does it break the game?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterFu View Post
    I think "breaking the game" or even "breaking the action economy" might be overstating it a bit.

    Having the familiar isn't enough by itself. You'll also need the "infusion" discovery, so that's not until level 4 (level 3 if you spend a feat for it). You'll also need either a very specific magic item that you can't make yourself without spending another feat or discovery or permission from the GM to do it another way. To do what? Blow through your very limited extracts per day even faster? You have other ways to do this without even using a tumor familiar, and a wizard can be doing the very same thing with a wand at level 5 with a free feat and no hit to their spells/day at all. In a non-optimized game, you'd honestly be more frightening with a TWF/bomb nova build.

    Tumor familiar with protector archetype (or some other way to share damage), though... Ioun wyrd + pearly white spindle (regeneration), spontaneous healing and healing touch discoveries, and the fast healer feat chain (especially if you have access to rage and/or have stacked Con) can keep you going for a long time, and fast healer applies separately to fast heal and regen, so you can double up once you have access to both. I've been working on a "last man standing" sort of build and an alchemist can be very, very hard to put down, if that's your thing.
    This is totally just my personal experience with a archer/bomber grenadier alchemist with a tumor familiar and syringe spears but I generally don't have those issues. I'm at level 11 now and my extracts are not feeling "very limited"; I not only have enough for my own needs for the day but I give away about half my extracts to party members using the infusion discovery. I usually use my mutagen and a few long lasting extracts most of the time and save the short term extracts for the hard fights. I also use high UMD and a few wands to buff myself. Most fights bombs are not my only weapon. A lot of the same feats you need to be an effective bomber also help with archery. I used the grenadier martial weapon's proficiency to grab a longbow and some of my feats to make sure that I'm pretty deadly with that as well as bombs. I also use a lot of trick arrows and either arrows imbued with alchemical items or straight up alchemical weapons to make sure that I'm effective without touching my bombs. Some of this does depend on my GM not being a tightwad with the loot and some crafting skills both for myself and my allies helping out, but its not too bad. Just requires WBL and some discounts from crafting my own gear.

    A fair amount of the bomb supply gets saved for the really tough enemies where I go very nova very quickly. That said between boosting Int sky high, tiefling favored class bonuses, Targeted Bomb Admixture and some bomb discoveries I have some very potent bombs and I don't need too many. My grenadier has brought down a CR-appropriate dragon in 2 rounds when she decided to go all out. The rest of my party occasionally jokes that their purpose is just to get me to the boss with full hp and most of my bombs intact.

    The third thing I will mention is that after pulling these shenanigans pretty much every enemy in the room with a brain will realize that I'm freaking dangerous and come after me hard. This is why I try not to skimp on the defensive extracts and why I've invested more into my armor than my bow. With good armor, Dex boosting mutagen, Dex boosting belt, shield, and a few other defense boosting extracts and items I have an AC of over 40 when fully buffed. And the tumor familiar with his syringes full of extracts is what lets me get all this up while still spending my actions doing damage. It also helps to have a party that knows and understands what's going on. They're usually quite willing to stand between me and whatever I've enraged beyond belief.

    Is this build more optimal than a fully pimped out wizard? Not really. But it does do a lot of damage when the chips are down and its been a lot of fun turning dragons, demons and other big nasties into chunky salsa.

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