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Thread: Conlangs in RPG Settings
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2016-10-30, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Conlangs in RPG Settings
How many of you have tried making languages for use with your settings? For those of you who do, do you keep your languages fairly familiar to you, or do you explore unusual features like object-first word orders and absolutive-ergative alignments? Are there certain things you simply will not do? (For example, with all apologies to speakers of Chinese, I hate tones in languages and don't want to deal with them in anything I make. It's a personal thing—tones are perfectly valid features in languages, of course, but I just consider them to be a headache.)
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2016-10-31, 12:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
I make avid use of Conlangs or real world languages for my D&D worlds.
For the players Conlangs are just a thing that adds flavor, I use them for naming, offering nomenclature and providing a realistic context for culture. And because my worlds tend to have a plethora of languages, at times the language barrier can become a real issue in RP.
In terms of languages I've made, I stick usually to what I know.
Verb-Subject-Object languages that are very similar to the living Insular Celtic Languages (Irish and Welsh for example).
Or I use Conlangs others have made in order to supplement my settings.
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2016-11-02, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
in my fantasy bantu setting (WajabuPDF) i decided to use real world kiSwahili and other real languages instead of making up new langs - if my players have to learn a bunch of weird vocab, it should at least be somehow useful. sad, as i like conlangs.
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2016-11-05, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
You need a group that's really into it. Most groups probably don't want to learn all that grammar or spend half the session flicking through their English-Skrumphalian dictionary or phrasebook. On the whole, I think "The Skrumphalian villager says something incomprehensible" is perfectly fine as long as your players have a halfway decent imagination or willingness to accept a gap in the texture of the world.
That said, while creating my current world, in which there are many only partially mutually comprehensible dialects, I considered creating lists of loanwords for each dialect and altering English grammar slightly from one to another. Ultimately I decided against even that though.
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2016-11-06, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
Certainly, I would not expect to use a conlang in most play, but I'm a fan of a deep approach to world-building. I appreciate the ability to come up with names and toponyms organically, to sprinkle loanwords into play, or even to be able to say in a sentence what makes the speech of the dark elves different from that of the high elves. Coming up with a piece of lore or an investigation puzzle dependent on language play or translation error is much more satisfying when you can say "Yes, it definitely should work this way," rather than ask "Would this riddle really work in Draconic the way it does in English?" Plus, I like languages and love filling in those sorts of details just for their own sake.
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2016-11-06, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
Language is also useful in world building if you want to create a soft corral area for the players. One way to keep the players in the main area you've done a lot of world building in and prevent excessive wandering is to use the Language Barrier.
If the players can't reasonably communicate with people from <blank> area, they won't likely go to <blank> area and thus you can focus on building a lot of rich lore and content for the areas where they WILL be able to talk to people.
Its an easy way of helping to make a world seem large and rich, without having to develop EVERY single square inch of it.
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2016-11-06, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2014
Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
I would absolutely love to use conlangs, but I don't really have time to create them myself. I'd buy in a heartbeat a book that gave a dozen or so naming languages solely for that...
I've been toying with the idea of just using real-world languages to give my brew's world's languages (approaching 60 at the moment...probably going to grow in future games) character--which of course means I need a couple sentence summary of what a given language sounds like and what makes it unique. Also a lot of work. Don't know if I'll do it or not.
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2016-11-29, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
would that be useful? a book with a summary of the language, useful phrases, etc? are lojban and ithkuil public domain/creative commons? and some new stuff, of course.....ninja'd - omniglot's page on fictional languages
Last edited by tantric; 2016-11-29 at 01:25 PM.
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2016-12-06, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
Conlangs are cool, but every time I consider designing one, I think "...but on second thought, why?" and stop about five minutes in.
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2016-12-07, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
I'd love to create languages for the settings I work on, but I am not a linguist, and I barely have time to do the other parts of the worlds to anything like the level of detail and craftsmanship that I want.
As for why I'd love to...
First, using any existing language, real or fictional, has for many people a set of attached baggage. Once people recognize a language, anything they associate with people who speak that language gets attached to the people using it in the fiction or game; a character speaking "not Russian" still can easily be tagged with any cultural associations the reader/listener/player might associate with "Russians", for example.
Second, I want the language to reflect something about and give a certain "aura" to the people who speak it. One of the languages I've tried to develop makes heavy use of compound words, and lacks certain sounds (B, G, J, P), has little conjugation (ex, nothing like English's "he bites" vs "they bite") and doesn't use much inflection or tone to differentiate between words (the way Mandarin, etc, do). It's supposed to reflect that the species it originated with, that still speaks it, is fundamentally different from the other "races" and has a different origin. It's supposed to make them sound alien and a bit sinister in the minds of the humans, etc.It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2016-12-13, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
I tend to express language differences in my settings symbolically through naming schemes and simple conjugation differences. (ex, people from Borend have names derived from parts of weapons and armor [Poleyn Pauncer, Aventail Block, Pixane Cowter], and would refer to themselves as Borendan, and their neighbors from Kanotch as Kanotchan. Meanwhile those from Kanotch have mineral names [Orspar Flint, Marget Olivine, Mica Alabaster] and would call things Borendic or Kanotchic.
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2016-12-24, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
On a design level they provide a degree of realistic consistency.
Most settings have areas that are vastly different, with vastly different Nomenclature, Cultures and Names.
BUT WHY?! Why do those people who Speak Common, and others who Speak Common, have different names for their leaders? Okay, Why is the Horse-Lord King called Khan? But the King of Almeria called a King? Linguistically you have the problem of Common not making any sense as a language. How can it produce names like Gwen, Aspro, Valkoinen ect when all the people who bare those names speak one language and have always done so?
Why is a country called Almeria? Aglarond? Tolpesh Confederacy? Ect. The problem of your typical D&D setting is that the place names, personal names and nomenclature would suggest there are far more languages than Common, Elven, Sylvan, Demonic, Celestial, Dwarvish, ect.
Most D&D settings appear to have over a thousand languages, but in actual practice do not. That begs the question, WTF does Aglarond mean? Where does this name come from? What about Chessentia? Linguistically a D&D world is impossible to exist without handwavy laziness on the part of a world builder.
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2016-12-24, 07:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2014
Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
One of the things that bothers me is the idea that the non-human races all speak a single language, despite allowing for longer lives providing more linguistic drift as they separate in both time and location.
I mean, why is there only one elvish? Why only one dwarvish? Really? Where do those languages come from, and why are they the same for their entire race? Makes no sense to me.
Even in the setting I've cobbled together from a bunch of different things has only a couple languages for the non-human races, which annoys me, while the "human" languages, for want of a better term, have ****loads of variation, including variation in my language tree.
Yes, I made a language tree. I'm not sure what that says about me. It's currently growing larger as time goes on and I add in more areas to my burgeoning map.
@Common
The elements of Common were an invented pidgin-military language, simply because the language used was too cumbersome for small, short messages. It was adopted by almost everyone because of its ease of use, and grew from there. It sort of occupies the niche in how Latin was the lingua franca of Europe during the Middle Ages and beyond, but in the space of a considerably easier-to-learn language, because latin is hard as ****.
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2016-12-24, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2016-12-24, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
I've taken to hunting out relatively obscure and/or archaic languages to use as my linguistic framework. The odds of someone attaching unconscious associations to a culture based on the language go down a lot when the odds of meeting someone familiar with said language are reduced - though at least in my case, I also sought out languages that did share some vague connotations with the cultures I was creating.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2016-12-24, 09:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
Even on the level of vague connotations, in speculative fiction, it's easy to have a species or culture for which there's nothing that fits.
What language do you use for the right "vague connotations" for a fantasy-setting species that wasn't created by the same gods as most life, but was instead created by the primordial void/dark/khaos... who have "shadows" rather than "souls"... who are ageless (not truly immortal)... whose "cities" are vast in size but comparatively small in population because they build courtyards walled in stone around every single house... whose magic is almost entirely in the creation of items and devices and mechanisms, unlike everyone else... who view the world's workings with a critical eye and shun explanations that aren't empirically rigorous (and yes, I know this is anachronistic)... etc...It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2016-12-24, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2016-12-24, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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- The Lakes
Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
I'm just frustrated with the choice between creating a language from scratch or making do with something that doesn't fit.
Because of course every GM has the knowledge and the time needed to created a few dozen new languages, and they're all just being lazy and taking the easy road out when they don't do it.Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2016-12-24 at 09:53 PM.
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2016-12-24, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
Well, something has to give then. You're obviously not going to find a perfect parallel because you aren't writing historical fiction, so you either make one from scratch or find the closest fit you can. Unattainable perfection in this case is indeed just going to leave you frustrated. Let's see...
Looking at your description of the race and focusing on how they think rather than what they do or who they are, I'd use Italian as your linguistic root, because the description of them focusing on mechanical devices and items and demanding rational explanations makes me think of Leonardo Da Vinci or Galileo Galilei. No, all Italians are not mechanical masters, and they certainly weren't soulless, but they did historically produce multiple of skilled and famous craftsman and scientists during the Renaissance era. Plus, it's fairly easy on the ear and tongue, so you don't have to torture yourself trying to pronounce it. That's the sort of 'vague connotation' I mean; the Inca weren't actually ruled by a caste of immortal undead sorcerer-kings, but they did mummify and venerate their dead, so using Quechua for my invented culture worked for me.
Or, if you can't find even a slim link like the above between cultures, try geography instead. I'm probably going to be using Bengali for one of my root languages, because Bangladesh has the most rivers of any country in the world, and the culture I'm creating lives in a region with lots of rivers despite their social organization being patterned after the Polish heraldic clans.Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2016-12-24 at 11:22 PM.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2016-12-25, 01:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
And for the record, I basically agree with the idea. It's just that actually inventing a language is a lot of work for very little benefit, since it's not like my players are going to care to learn it. In most cases one can accomplish the same effect by just stating that different languages exist without developing them to the point of functionality, since in practice I'm going to end up speaking English to my players regardless.
Having one Common language that all (remotely civilized) people in the world speak is indeed pretty silly, but I don't think it's a binary choice between that and developing potentially dozens of new languages of your own. If one enjoys it, more power to them! But I don't think it's for me.
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2016-12-25, 01:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Conlangs in RPG Settings
My preference is fast and loose one step above simple hand waving. Just declare a hand full of interesting speculative fiction notions about these languages and keep on rolling. Just using those handful of guidelines to pull names and so forth out of the air.
For instance, how about this,
Dwarven doesn't really acknowledge vowels. Vowel sounds are just so much filler that are sometimes relevant for establishing the tone of the given sentiment. This is why Dwarven accents sound like they do, with the stereotypical dwarf swapping out vowel sounds in Common words seemingly arbitrarily.
Kobalds don't have lips, but they have throats like those of ravens and parrots, allowing them a competent facility with mammalian languages, but their native tongue primarily consists of honks, shrieks, and warbling that's best mastered by those who already have some talent for performing bird calls.
A non-native speaker of Elfin will almost certainly mortally offend an elf while trying to articulate anything if they have an Int Score of less then 14. Elf is a convoluted and essentially ritualized language that few actual elves even particularly enjoy speaking, except that it grants their topics of conversion almost total privacy from the prying ears of the unwashed.
There, I just invented 3 fantasy languages. "But Doomhat," you might say, "those don't make a lot of anthropological sense based on X, Y, and Z specific real world precedents!"
Well kind sir, I ask you this, are there dragons in this setting? If so, good, you're disbelief suspender should be calibrated accordingly then, lets get on with the epic quest....with a vengeance!
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2016-12-25, 06:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011