Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor (PEACH)

[Arkhios]

Alright, let's see how it works this time.
- Sneaky Medium Armor Proficiency wasn't sneaky enough and decided to skedaddle, but in return forgot some of its weapons behind!
- Occult Lore and Greater Judgment are (hopefully) more streamlined, referring to actual rules already in use.

[Llama513]

I really like what you have done with the class, I love it.

The specifications on occult lore, and greater judgment I think make it really clear what they do, and are awesome and fit quite nicely with the class, as well as the flavor

I would recommend that if you give them the heavy crossbow, I would also give them the light crossbow

[Arkhios]

I really like what you have done with the class, I love it.

The specifications on occult lore, and greater judgment I think make it really clear what they do, and are awesome and fit quite nicely with the class, as well as the flavor

I would recommend that if you give them the heavy crossbow, I would also give them the light crossbow

Glad you like it.

On the matter of light crossbow, rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, and light crossbow is a simple ranged weapon :)

[Llama513]

On the matter of light crossbow, rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, and light crossbow is a simple ranged weapon :)

So it is my bad I missed that when I checked the weapons list

[Arkhios]

Now I would love to see someone actually playtesting this roguish archetype and report their findings! All help is appreciated, while I will allow it for my own games as well.

[Ugganaut]

Alright, let's see how it works this time.
- Sneaky Medium Armor Proficiency wasn't sneaky enough and decided to skedaddle, but in return forgot some of its weapons behind!
- Occult Lore and Greater Judgment are (hopefully) more streamlined, referring to actual rules already in use.

I see the heavy crossbow wasn't the only thing that sneaky Medium Armor prof left behind. I see you Sacred Flame, you can't hide :P

Unfortunately our group won't be meeting for a couple months, so won't have a chance to play let alone test this out. But I have more time for reading forums :)

Great work Arkhios, it's looking really good.

Edit: And whips! I nearly missed it. Very sneaky :P

[Arkhios]

I see the heavy crossbow wasn't the only thing that sneaky Medium Armor prof left behind. I see you Sacred Flame, you can't hide :P

Unfortunately our group won't be meeting for a couple months, so won't have a chance to play let alone test this out. But I have more time for reading forums :)

Great work Arkhios, it's looking really good.

Edit: And whips! I nearly missed it. Very sneaky :P

Gotta have the tools to punish the wicked, eh?

[Arkhios]

Due to discussion elsewhere (link might come later), I've made a few tweaks to the archetype, which shouldn't be too powerful, but give a look at them if you wish.

Occult Lore
When you reach 9th level, your knowledge of the occult gives you an edge in revealing threats to your faith and society. You have advantage on Intelligence (Investigation) and Wisdom (Insight) checks to reveal the deception and disguises of heretics (subject to DM discretion), as well as fey, fiends, shapechangers, and undead. In addition, you add double your proficiency bonus for any Intelligence checks related to fey, fiends, shapechangers, and undead.

Greater Judgment
Once you reach 13th level, your judgment grows brighter and begins to burn the target with divine fervor. Your weapon attacks against the target of your judgment ignore any damage resistances the target might have, but not immunities.

While under the effects of your judgment, you can see the target as if you were under the effects of See Invisibility spell, and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it.

In addition, I changed the "freebie" cantrip from Sacred Flame to Vicious Mockery, which is considered a cleric cantrip for you. I figured that not all inquisitors might want to rain divine radiance upon their foes, but might instead favor a more direct assault.

[Inchoroi]

I like it! Nothing jumps out at me as being broken at first read, either. I'll probably not get a chance to playtest it (ForeverDM...) and I never get my players to play religious characters. Kind of annoying, really.

[Arkhios]

I like it! Nothing jumps out at me as being broken at first read, either. I'll probably not get a chance to playtest it (ForeverDM...) and I never get my players to play religious characters. Kind of annoying, really.

Awesome! Glad to hear I've succeeded in making something even remotely balanced :P

You know, you could probably play an inquisitor as a godless exorcist, who simply knows stuff about the occult and how to hit a wide variety of monsters where it hurts, and reflavor his spells and semi-magical abilities as methods he uses to accomplish his goals.

[Corran]

Right, I haven't read the thread, so maybe this was already mentioned in which case I apologize.

I took a good look at the archtype, because I am planning to use it (for an NPC, and also make it available to the players) in a campaign I will run in the coming summer, as the archtype fits the flavour of the world perfectly.

Anyway, it shows that this archtype was created with much care, but here is my one and only reservation:

Due to how you must use your holy symbol fot judgment and for spellcasting, it is not easy for a melee oriented inquisitor to use twf (which is the default choice for a melee rogue), so I was thinking that there level 3 bonus proficiencies should give you proficiency with shields too, so that you can pick one up and thus have your holy symbol engraved on your shield. You will still not be going with twf, but you might as well make the best out of a (still) bad situation (boost your AC a bit).

Edit: The arcane trickster has a similar issue, but he has BB as a good (if not better) alternative to twf. We dont have sth like that. That's why I am suggesting getting the shield proficiency.

Ranged oriented inquisitors get proficiency with the heavy crossbow, so it is not like adding shield to that list of proficiencies on that list makes this archtype heavily geared towards melee, more like it now gives an equal boost to both melee and ranged oriented builds.

Anyway, that is my own bit of criticism.

Oh, and something else. Greater judgement needs some tweaking imo regarding when going against invisible opponents. My reason for saying that is this: See invisibility (the actual spell) has a range of self, meaning that when you are already against an invisible foe, you can cast the spell and start seeing this invisible foe (and yes, it may take an action, as opposed to judgement, but it has a long duration so it will be easy to pre-cast it, but this is not even the point, my point follows). If you are up against an invisible foe, you cannot use judgment against him (as you must see the target againt whom you will use judgment), so this aspect of greater judgment of seeing invisible foes goes to waste most of the time (ie if the foes you are up against are already invisible, or become invisible before using judgement against them), as you will not be able to use judgment against them (so that you'll end up seeing them) in the first place. I think sth must be changed here, though I admit I couldnt come with an easy solution for it (then again, I am not good at brewing stuff).

Ok, now I will start reading this thread from the beginning....

ps: At first I was a bit puzzled at why abjuration and divination, until I sat down and had a look at what that meant in term of spell availability. A most excellent choice! Very thorough job on all levels.

[Arkhios]

Thank you for the feedback! I'm currently on my phone and slightly distracted by some things, but when I can, I'll gather my thoughts a bit, and give more proper response. Right now I'll say that your concerns are valid, and I'll think about them for a while. Watch this space, I'll come back to it soon enough! :)

Edit:
Alright, so. I know that two-weapon fighting is a common choice for a rogue. However, the way I read description for Holy Symbols is this: to use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus, one must hold it in hand, bear it on a shield, or wear it visibly (emphasis mine). To me that implies you could wear a holy symbol amulet and just stow your weapon away when you're about to cast a spell (usually an action) or when pronouncing judgment. Either way, you're not going to make the off-hand attack on that turn, either because you already used your action to cast a spell and thus making the off-hand attack is not possible anyway, or you just used your bonus action to pronounce judgment, meaning you couldn't make off-hand attack either. In my personal and honest opinion, it's a small issue, just wear an amulet holy symbol and you're good to go. Shield proficiency would feel a bit too arbitrary for the archetype to have, especially since shield proficiency is often paired with medium armor proficiency (which I did consider adding, but ultimately didn't).
I hope this answer was satisfying enough. I do appreciate your opinion though.

Onto Greater Judgment... Yeah, I can see that the See Invisibility effect is a bit wonky if the target is already invisible.

With relatively quick thinking I came up with two possible solutions.

Either replace the second paragraph with the following:
In addition, you can now use Channel Divinity twice before you must finish a short rest to regain both uses.

Or

In addition, when you hit the target of your Judgment for the first time, intense pain washes over it as it takes damage. The target must make a Wisdom saving throw or have disadvantage on their ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws until the Judgment ends. The target can repeat this saving throw at the end of each of its turns, with successful save ending the disadvantage.

Now, I'm not sure if the latter option is balanced or not, but I tried to have it resemble the Staggering Smite spell.

Thoughts?

[Corran]

About shield proficiency, I see what you are saying, and it does indeed make sense; I agree. I hadn't really thought this through in regard to how it plays out action economy wise. So yes, I would agree that it is good as is.

About greater judgement:

Either replace the second paragraph with the following:
In addition, you can now use Channel Divinity twice before you must finish a short rest to regain both uses.

Well, this is not a bad way to go about it, but I worry it might be a little lackluster. Here is what I mean. Judgment, even with the first part of greater judgement added in (regarding resistances and immunities) is still a bit situational. I mean its value is situational. To clarify, I think that ''not needing an ally adjacent to the target of your judgement or advantage against the target of your judgement to proc sneak attack, plus treating immunities as resistances or resistances as immunities, and all that 1/short rest against 1 target'', well this is of situational value (imo), mostly. So, whatever else you add to greater judgement, should probably be towards expanding the cases under which judgement is useful. That means adding something new in what this feature can do. Adding a second use between short rests, is not the best way to go imo. No much point increasing the frequency with which you can use something that is of situational value. Better add sth in it that expands the cases under which judgement can become useful. At least that's my take. (So, to better establish whether you agree with me on that, I guess you have to first check if I make a good case or not regarding how situational or not, judgement is. I havent playetested it, so my assuptioms regarding judgement being a bit more situational than it should, may be completely bonkers, but that's the way I can imagine it will play out).

So, bottom line, I dont think adding extra uses between short rests is the best way to go, as judgement is kind of situational, and whatever we add must address this, instead of allowing us to use a situational feature more often. Giving more ''uses'' (uses in the sense that you expand the scenarios under which this provides a benefit when used) to a situational feature is productive, while giving more actual uses (uses in the sense that you can use it more times/ more often) to a situational feature is counterproductive (counterintuitive? / not sure what the right word is).


About your second idea:

In addition, when you hit the target of your Judgment for the first time, intense pain washes over it as it takes damage. The target must make a Wisdom saving throw or have disadvantage on their ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws until the Judgment ends. The target can repeat this saving throw at the end of each of its turns, with successful save ending the disadvantage.

Now, I'm not sure if the latter option is balanced or not, but I tried to have it resemble the Staggering Smite spell.

That's the way to go imo. Well, not necessarily this, but sth along these lines. Something that expands judgement's usefulness, sth that makes it a bit less situational. I dont think it is unbalanced. It justs boosts your main feature (judgement) to make it more relevant. I think it's good that you excluded any bonus dice damage, as it would be perhaps too much. Not sure if the effect you chose is the best one you could go for (I guess you chose it as it becomes accessible to palys at 13 level so it seems appropriate), but it is definitely the right direction imo.


-------------------------------------------

That said, I am pretty sold on the initial idea of see invisibility. It just feels so appropriate for some reason to an inquisitor. I am currently trying to see if there is a good way to go about it (trying to base it perhaps on branding smite, and having it work well with the requirement 'to see' the enemy when you use judgement, and having it also pair well with blindsense that you get at the next level, as I wouldnt want them two to have much overlap).
This way is probably still leaving judgement with a bit too much of situational value, but I like it more fluff wise. If I think of something on this (having it replicate the effects of see invisibility against your target of judgement), that I think is worth of your consideration, I will post you my suggestion on this thread.

I still think that ''see invisibility'' is a less appropriate way to go about adding stuff to what judgement can do, when I compare it to your idea (that was based on staggering smite), your idea is better in the sense that it reduces a lot more the situational value of judgement and makes it a lot more useful in its general use. Though as I said, I just like the see invisibility route for thematic reasons (not sure why, must be some movie scene or sth, that I cannot exactly remember right now).

Oops, I am rambling again...

Edit: About greater judgement, about the part where you are talking about ignoring resistances and immunities, you might want to rephrase it a bit. I mean, it is pretty obvious what you want to say, but perhaps better rephrase it a bit so there is not ambiguity about it. What do I mean? The way it is wrtitten, someone could perhaps argue that if you go against a creature with immunity against your damage, then with greater judgement you treat immunity as resistance, but greater judgement also allows you to treat resistance as not existance, so you deal damage normaly, which is clearly not your RAI and it is clearly stretching your RAW but does not disobey the strict letter of your RAW.

[Arkhios]

See Invisibility plays towards the idea that an Inquisitor might serve as an exorcist, and some fey, fiends, and undead; shapechangers maybe a bit less, can turn invisible or ethereal, if they aren't already.

I'm AFB, but I seem to recall that See Invisibility had somewhat limited range, whereas the target of Greater Judgment could be seen even while beyond the area of effect of the spell, regardless of it being active, as long as Judgment is, making an Inquisitor a consummate hunter of the supernatural creatures, as well as spies (and/or HERETICS!!!11 )

But yes, I should try to come up with something else, perhaps similar to Staggering Smite.

Hmmm... What if the target of your Greater Judgment couldn't turn invisible or change shape, and if it already is, after it becomes the target of your Greater Judgment, it turns visible and reverts to its normal form until the judgment ends? Kinda like Moonbeam actually.

About resistance/immunity. I have same concerns too, but I'm unsure how to rephrase it. I've been trying to come up with a less loop-hole alternative for the wording, but I'm at a loss. If anyone reading this has a suggestion, let me know, thanks!

[Corran]

See Invisibility plays towards the idea that an Inquisitor might serve as an exorcist, and some fey, fiends, and undead; shapechangers maybe a bit less, can turn invisible or ethereal, if they aren't already.

That's why we should have it!
A bit more situational than the effect of staggering smite, which is sth that I dont like much (the fact that we still keep adding situational things on an already situational feature - ie judgement), but being able to see invisible foes feels just perfectly thematic.

I'm AFB, but I seem to recall that See Invisibility had somewhat limited range, whereas the target of Greater Judgment could be seen even while beyond the area of effect of the spell, regardless of it being active, as long as Judgment is, making an Inquisitor a consummate hunter of the supernatural creatures, as well as spies (and/or HERETICS!!!11 )

Actually, see invisibility has several advantages over how we use it (besides being difficult to use it on an already invisible target).
This is the description of see invisibility: For the duration (1 hour), you see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible, and you can see into the Ethereal Plane. Ethereal creatures and objects appear ghostly and translucent.
So it has a longer duration, and can be used against more than 1 targets (since you cast it on yourself). I cant see any benefit for us, assuming we had a way to use it against an already invisible foe.

Will edit to respond to the rest.

[Arkhios]

While waiting for response to the rest, here's a new possible iteration:

GREATER JUDGMENT
Once you reach 13th level, your judgment burns the target with divine fervor. Your weapon attacks against the target ignore any damage resistances the target might have. If the target has any damage immunities, they count as resistances instead but are not ignored.

While under the effects of your judgment, the target can't turn invisible or change shape. If either of those effects are already affecting the target, the effect is suppressed until the target is dead or until the Judgment ends, whichever comes first.

In addition, you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it.

The reason why I chose to leave See Invisibility out as an effect linked to Greater Judgment, is that it's on cleric's spell list anyway.

[Corran]

Sorry for the very badly-written reply, I was typing in a hurry.

Mmmmm, I like that you added the bit about changeshape. Feels appropriate. Here are some thoughts.

If the target is already invisible, then when you hit/attack him (probably limit it to hit?), you can use your reaction to cast judgment on him with the exception that in this case (using your reaction) you dont have to see the target. Feels a bit complicated and I am not sure if it is a good addition, but it would let us deal with targets that are already invisible, and I think we should have a way of doing so. ''Breaking the enemy's invisibility for everyone in such a way might be a bit too powerful, so maybe limit it to sth like wis mod uses per long rest? Not sure... Maybe have it it your bonus action along with your reaction too (ie reserve your bonus action) in order to use it with the reaction, if you think it might be too powerful to leave the bonus action intact to be used for sth else during that round.
Or alternatively, just lift the restriction of using judgement on an enemy that you can see, and instead make it an area effect that affects 1 target (of your choice) in that area.
ps: How about adding sth like the paladin's divine sense as a bonus action? Perhaps change it a bit and have it burn a spell slot, so that we dont step on the paladin's toes too much? Maybe that could take care of using the bonus action and be able to cast judgement on an enemy we cannot see but we are aware of his position. That will make you keep your bonus action still busy if wanting to use judgement with your reaction (against invisible opponents you just attacked/hit), if you worry too much about having judgement use the reaction instead of the bonus action would be much of a problem balance-wise.

About change shape. I like this addition very very much. I think it might be a bit too strong without having the enemy make a (con or wis most likely) save against your DC, but I am not sure and I am no expert in balancing out things. While I like very much how you can (potentially) force an enemy not changeshape/polymorph into a scary form, it feels a bit awkward to be able to suspend his changeshape just as easily, if it is already in effect. Maybe have the DC only when you are trying to revert him to his normal form, and no DC if you try to prevent him? Or have the DC in both cases, and give the target advantage on the save if he is already changeshaped?
Actually, reverting an enemy to his real form is as much thematic (if not even more) as preventing an enemy from changing forms. I think you should include a save against DC. You can always have the save be done with disadvantage if you have a holy sumbol or if another more elaborate and thematical condition is satisfied if you want to boost the power of this feature, but I think a save is more in line with how similar features work than not having the enemy make one.

ps: About the bit regarding resistances and immunities. What you did there works fine I think. Perhaps there is a more elegant way to write it, but I cannot come up with anything.

[Arkhios]

Mmmmm, I like that you added the bit about changeshape. Feels appropriate. Here are some thoughts.

If the target is already invisible, then when you hit/attack him (probably limit it to hit?), you can use your reaction to cast judgment on him with the exception that in this case (using your reaction) you dont have to see the target. Feels a bit complicated and I am not sure if it is a good addition, but it would let us deal with targets that are already invisible, and I think we should have a way of doing so. ''Breaking the enemy's invisibility for everyone in such a way might be a bit too powerful, so maybe limit it to sth like wis mod uses per long rest? Not sure... Maybe have it it your bonus action along with your reaction too (ie reserve your bonus action) in order to use it with the reaction, if you think it might be too powerful to leave the bonus action intact to be used for sth else during that round.
Or alternatively, just lift the restriction of using judgement on an enemy that you can see, and instead make it an area effect that affects 1 target (of your choice) in that area.

Hmm. You know, the idea of being able to use Judgment as a reaction when you hit an invisible target isn't that bad at all. At that point you know where the target is, but since you've already hit it, I would say you don't get sneak attack against the target while it's invisible, because normal rules prevent sneak attack because attacking a target with disadvantage. I think it might work like this: when you hit an invisible target, you can use Judgment as a reaction, and the target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or its invisibility is suppressed until your Judgment ends. I'll think about it a little while.
Edit: See the end of the post for what I came up with.

ps: How about adding sth like the paladin's divine sense as a bonus action? Perhaps change it a bit [Snip], so that we dont step on the paladin's toes too much? Maybe that could take care of using the bonus action and be able to cast judgement on an enemy we cannot see but we are aware of his position. That will make you keep your bonus action still busy if wanting to use judgement with your reaction (against invisible opponents you just attacked/hit), if you worry too much about having judgement use the reaction instead of the bonus action would be much of a problem balance-wise.

About change shape. I like this addition very very much. [Snip] Actually, reverting an enemy to his real form is as much thematic (if not even more) as preventing an enemy from changing forms. I think you should include a save against DC. You can always have the save be done with disadvantage if you have a holy sumbol or if another more elaborate and thematical condition is satisfied if you want to boost the power of this feature, but I think a save is more in line with how similar features work than not having the enemy make one.

I might include conditional disadvantage on saves as an optional rule in a sidebar.

In general I would rather not rip-off abilities from other classes unless those abilities already have some "transparency" between existing classes/sub-classes (such as Channel Divinity). Normally I would've said no to your suggestion of giving Inquisitors a Divine Sense-esque ability, but in this case, I might actually make it another option for Channel Divinity (I think I'll call it Purge Deceit?) available right from the 3rd level along with Judgment (see the end of the post)

ps: About the bit regarding resistances and immunities. What you did there works fine I think. Perhaps there is a more elegant way to write it, but I cannot come up with anything.

I think, given the above changes, I might drop the "Immunity -> Resistance" completely. It would otherwise become a rather god-like do-it-all ability.

---

To conclude, here are the changes and additions for evaluation and proofreading before I add them to the final homebrewery document:

CHANNEL DIVINITY: PURGE DECEIT
As an Action, you can use your channel divinity to invoke divine challenge and demand all deceitful creatures within 30 feet of you to reveal their true forms. All invisible and shapechanged creatures must succeed on a Charisma saving throw. On a failure, invisible creatures become visible and shapechanged creatures revert to their normal forms for 1 minute.

In addition, you sense all creatures that are concealed or disguised by any means within the area, and you know their general direction, but not their identities or locations.

GREATER JUDGMENT
Once you reach 13th level, your Judgment burns the target with divine fervor. When you hit a target with an attack or when a target fails its save against one of your spells, you can use Channel Divinity: Judgment on the target as a reaction, as long as you can use it. While under the effects of your Judgment, the target can't turn invisible or change shape. If the target is already affected by either of these effects, the target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw. On a failure, the effect is suppressed until your Judgment ends.

In addition, all your subsequent attacks against the target ignore any damage resistances the target might have. You also have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) and Wisdom (Survival) checks you make to find it for the next 24 hours.

[Corran]

Hmm, I dont like purge deceit that much. It reminds me of 3e paladin's detect evil, though without the spamming. It conflicts a bit with occult lore that we get at level 9 too. I initially thought it would be cool and thematic to have such a channel divinity, but I am having second thoughts about it now. I also dont like the idea of introducing things that compete with judgement, as judgement is the key/ most distinctive feature imo. So yeah, I guess I am saying we would be better without another channel divinity, better focus on one (ie judgement), and boost it at 13 in the most appropriate way.

So, the subclass is solid as it was imo (I think I've done more harm than good so far), and the only thing we need to tweak a bit is greater judgement at lvl 13th.

For greater judgement, here is what we have seen so far:
1) Cancel resistances and treat immunities as resiastances (which gr judgement does not affect)
2) Supress invisibility (assuming we can find a way to make it work since judgement requres us to see the target)
3) Supress shapechange
4) The effects of staggering smite (no extra damage)

And here is one more idea:
5) A banishment-type effect (exorcist and all that) - we do get banishment though at 19th level, which is really a shame as it fits the theme of this archtype a lot;
Nvm

Ok, 2&3 are the most thematic choices. 4 is a bit meh. 1 is thematic enough, but less so than 2&3, and you could add it (or half of it) for balancing purposes.

Now, the big problem is how to cast judgement on an invisible enemy. What if instead of going with the reaction use, we go via some other way. The reaction use still makes us attack during the first round with disadvanatge, and we are a rogue, and combats dont last long, so that's bad application of what this feature is intended to give us (a way to attack invisible enemies and still sneak attack). Much like how the versatile trickster feature of the AT, is good at what was intended to give the AT, and horrible in its application. So, idea: At 13th level, greater judgement, makes judgement not require of us to see the target. Wee just have to know his location. This pairs well with blinsense that we get at the next level. And with the advantage from occult lore. Such small synergies are enjoyable and give the impression that something was made with extreme care, even if they happened out of accident. This way, we dont fudge too much with the complexity of the subclass (does jufgement use reaction or bonus action question/dilemma, it just uses the bonus action, period). And you can still get to use it before your first attack. The feature is still not that powerful, so adding on top of this the resistances/immunities property would balance it out, I think (or just the resustances, as you said, though I dont think treating immunities as resistances is a big deal, perhaps I am wrong though).

[Arkhios]

You have a number of good points there.

Let's drop the Purge Deceit then (although I kinda liked it myself, thematically, but it might be too much, since it's only a roguish archetype we're dealing with; I might save it for some later project though...I think it ended up written quite solid)

I'll have to sit down and ponder how to write the ability so that it's easy to read and understand.

[Arkhios]

Bemusement Usurped My Progress... a.k.a. forced full form of BUMP

Here's the latest iteration:

GREATER JUDGMENT
When you reach 13th level, your Judgment grows stronger and you ignore any damage resistances the target of your judgment might have, and treat any of its damage immunities as damage resistances instead. This ability does not overlap with itself. Also, you can now use your Judgment even if you don't have a line of sight to your target, as long as you know the target's location.

In addition, if your target is invisible or shapechanged when you use the Judgment, it must make a Wisdom saving throw at the start of each of its turns. On a failure either effect is suppressed until the Judgment ends, and the target cannot turn invisible or change shape for the duration.

[Arkhios]

Since there are no opposition to Greater Judgment changes as proposed above, I updated it in the Homebrewery Document as well.

As an afterthought, I think it's better not to take the ranger's job away from them for being better at tracking their chosen foes.

An Inquisitor should be better at revealing a hidden threat rather than actually finding one in the first place.

[Corran]

Well, I think it's perfect this way, hence the small reply.

We keep the part dealing with resistances/imunities, and now we can have the inquisitor deal with invisible and shapechanging oppoents without technical difficulties (like how to apply judgement on invisible opponents). And blindsense from next level helps even more with that. So, it's a very good feature, that ties perfectly to the theme imo, and powerwise it is exactly where I think it should be.

Edit: Read the archtype one more time from the beginning. Nothing hits me wrong, everything seems to be exactly as it should.

[lunaticfringe]

Not bad, I'm not familiar with Inquistors from PF though. If I were to use it I'd drop the Radiant Sneak Attack & Specific Magic Schools cause I think those are Stupid. To each their own I suppose.

[Arkhios]

Not bad, I'm not familiar with Inquistors from PF though. If I were to use it I'd drop the Radiant Sneak Attack & Specific Magic Schools cause I think those are Stupid. To each their own I suppose.

Specific Magic Schools have a purpose. Not only is it for balance, but also because the spellcasting is based on Arcane Trickster's progression. If the designers saw that was the way to go, who am I to second-guess that, if I want to keep my homebrews balanced with the official rules?

Also, have you ever read what kind of spells abjuration and divination spells are? Those are very thematic for a divine interrogator whose purpose is to root out enemies of the faith and heretics, or to banish spirits possessing the innocent.

Plus, it's vital to remember that Inquisitor is a rogue first, and only a small portion (roughly one-third) of the whole class is a divine spellcaster. Their spell selection ought to be specialized in some way.
For Arcane Trickster their focus is in confounding and misleading magic, while an Inquisitor is focused on exposing and protective magic.

Radiant Sneak Attack could be left out, but it's basically there to reinforce the archetype's divine magic aspect. It's kinda like a divine rogue's version of Divine Smite.

[lunaticfringe]

Right. You copy & pasted how AT works I get that. But it's a Divine list, specifically the baseline Cleric list not the Wizard list. What are you worried about? Spirit Guardians 2x a Day at level 13? Oh my I'm shaking about how OP that is.

You don't think Speak with the Dead or Zone of Truth would be useful for a Divine Investigator/Interrogator? I got no problems allowing anything on the 1-4 Official Cleric Lists being cast by a rogue a few times a day. A Thief with the right Wands is Scarier.

Radiant Sneak Attacks just strikes me as silly. It's a Ribbon and I think it's a clunky add on. Personal Taste, if you want your Shortsword to light up occasionally go for it.

[Arkhios]

Right. You copy & pasted how AT works I get that. But it's a Divine list, specifically the baseline Cleric list not the Wizard list. What are you worried about? Spirit Guardians 2x a Day at level 13? Oh my I'm shaking about how OP that is.

You don't think Speak with the Dead or Zone of Truth would be useful for a Divine Investigator/Interrogator? I got no problems allowing anything on the 1-4 Official Cleric Lists being cast by a rogue a few times a day. A Thief with the right Wands is Scarier.

Radiant Sneak Attacks just strikes me as silly. It's a Ribbon and I think it's a clunky add on. Personal Taste, if you want your Shortsword to light up occasionally go for it.

Jayzus... Why the hostile attitude? Yes, I was looking for honest feedback; but I hoped and thought that being polite should come without asking. I'm sorry if my previous post came off as passive-aggressive. It wasn't my intention. I merely responded to the details you pointed out and tried to share you my own reasoning on those parts.

It's not about me being worried about something being OP or not. I chose the two schools after a careful observation of the cleric's spell list, not just on a whim. I tend to value thematic options more than munchkin power-creep options. It's fine if you don't like it. You're free to have your own opinions, but you could've said them a little bit more politely than "I don't like it because it's Stupid, because of reasons". Preferably though, if you have no constructive feedback to give, you could've just said nothing.

As of the theme, as I see them, an Inquisitor can fill plenty of different roles. A Divine Investigator/Interrogator, a Divine Assassin, an Exorcist, or maybe even a Witch Hunter (one form of Inquisition was that the Catholic Church gave the mandate to hunt down and eliminate pagans and/or traditional healers because of assumed witchcraft (because practicing witchcraft is the devil's work, obviously!)) etc.

Ok, I get it. You don't like Radiant Sneak Attack. However, unless you have a suggestion for a fix or even a replacement feature, I see no point in repeating that you don't like it. You made that opinion clear the first time.

Spoiler: If you're interested

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At first I experimented with an idea to have the Judgment work like Divine Smite, giving the Rogue an option to burn spell slots for extra damage like paladin, but there were two reasons why I dropped it eventually. One, I think it's bad to simply rip-off unique class features from other classes, and two, Sneak Attack is already very powerful feature when it comes to damage potential. I don't think rogues need any extra damage like Divine Smite from their own class.

And what comes to non-specific cleric spells, using your example: Spirit Guardians, it is actually one of the most powerful cleric spells I know. It affects big area, deals great damage for many targets, every round for 10 minutes (1 minute = 10 rounds. 10 minutes = 100 rounds) if they stay within it and as long as you keep concentration. BUT the potential power of Spirit Guardians or any other spell didn't affect the decision I made for the specific magic schools. Theme of both schools had more weight in that choice. While Abjuration and Divination schools may be their focus, Inquisitors, as well as Arcane Tricksters, can choose a few spells from any school at certain levels. I really don't see the issue here.

I mean, fluff-wise, if you have only a fraction of your time in your training to learn how to do stuff, how could you possibly learn as much as the one who spent the whole time learning one thing? Let's say, a cleric spent a whole day practicing his magic, but an inquisitor spent 2/3 of his day practicing fighting and other combat related things, and only 1/3 of the same day practicing magic. Clearly a cleric has advantage over an Inquisitor in that regard. A cleric has had more time studying his or her available spells, but an Inquisitor has only a limited time, and quite reasonably, from my point of view, has chosen to focus his magical studies to only a fraction of what's available because he doesn't have the time to study all magic.

[lunaticfringe]

I'm not trying to be hostile. I gave my opinion. You don't have to go into more detail as to why. Why doesn't matter, it's a matter of aesthetics & personal preference. I see no reason to limit an already limited spellcaster that is just my opinion. People generally seem for it. Sorry I would tweak your homebrew.

[Arkhios]

Maybe so, but I see no reason to break a common practice in regards to spellcasting.

I suppose I could change the spellcasting so that Inquisitor could prepare an amount of spells equal to 1/3 level+Wisdom modifier, but I would still prefer not to lift the restrictions otherwise.

But, fair enough. You gave your opinion, and while I don't completely agree with it, I appreciate it.