Am I the only 1 that thinks the kobolds pc got shafted in volo's guide

[Sir cryosin]

I don't like how the kobolds are the only pc race that gets a negative to a stat (-2 to str). Then Thay are Givin sunlight sensitivity. there cower and grovel ability is kind of cool but doesn't make up for anything. I'm afb but I don't think they even get any skills unlike almost every other race in the book hat get 2. What do ya'll think and any homebrew to fix kobolds.

[Gastronomie]

If anything, ask your DM if you can ignore the STR -2. That's pretty much it.

But no, in all honesty they are not weak.

All - ALL - D&D characters have both a "strong point" and a "weakness". That's why you need a party to be effective in the first place. The whole point of the game is that everyone sucks at something while being brilliant at something else, and when four to six people gather to put their brilliant stuff together, brilliant stuff happen.

No matter how much you suck at the stuff you suck, that has no difference on the effectiveness of your character, because whether you "suck" or "really suck" at it, you're not gonna use that option either way, and thus it's irrelevant to your character's abilities.

The kobold is really good at what it does. And it also sucks really hard at what it can't. But just because a kobold character sucks even harder at using STR weapons than an elf, doesn't matter, because elves will never use STR weapons either. Having a 6 in STR wouldn't make a character with 8 in STR any weaker.

Kobolds are good. I don't see the need for any tweaking.

[Arcangel4774]

Orcs got negative to int and don't have much for them to make up for it

[MinotaurWarrior]

Pack tactics is huge, and STR is a relatively unimportant stat. Kobolds aren't going to make good barbarians, but they're amazing rogues and can even do well as most other melee classes. Fighters, Paladins, et cetera can use rapiers.

[Zene]

I love the fact that they're giving some races negative modifiers ... and I'm most looking forward to playing a kobold.

It was kind of silly that using point buy and/or standard array you couldn't dump a stat below 8. Even small-sized races had 8 str minimum. Those are some strong gnomes!

So it was silly (and still is for many races) from a worldbuilding perspective, and from an rp perspective. From a min-max perspective, the fact that you could only dump stats to 8 meant bonuses couldn't be too good either.

Pack tactics is SO good, and I intend to use it well. Sunlight sensitivity and -2 to a stat are necessary to allow a benefit that good. And if you don't make a str-reliant build, that -2 str will barely matter. Personally I plan to dump str all the way to 6 on my kobold archer.

[dejarnjc]

Pack tactics makes kobolds one of the strongest Paladin / rogue / fighter (particularly champion IMO) choices so I think the -2 STR is appropriate. Having advantage the majority on the majority of your attacks is a huge deal.

[Beleriphon]

I don't like how the kobolds are the only pc race that gets a negative to a stat (-2 to str). Then Thay are Givin sunlight sensitivity. there cower and grovel ability is kind of cool but doesn't make up for anything. I'm afb but I don't think they even get any skills unlike almost every other race in the book hat get 2. What do ya'll think and any homebrew to fix kobolds.

Kobolds are anything but shafted. They never have disadvantage because of Pack Tactics. Provided they get that going they can never have disadvantage, whether from Sunlight Sensitivity or from any other condition in the game.

[Maxilian]

You will be able to ignore most disadvantage given by "Sunlight Sensitivity" thanks to "Pack Tactics", so its not that relevant (the main concern may be that in some moments, it will be harder for you to get advantage -But it will be harder for you to have disadvantage on an attack roll-)

[Joe the Rat]

If they weren't shafted, they'd make lousy miners.

-2 Str makes them punier than goblins and halflings. They're supposed to be punier than goblins and halflings. They are as viable as STR-barbarians as Orcs are as wizards.
By point buy you can start with enough STR to multiclass in/out of a strength class, but you will be a lousy greataxe wielder. The big issue is that your carrying capacity is going to suck - but it's still multiple times your body weight.

Pack tactics says never be alone, and things will go your way.

But really, the important thing to remember is that all the penalites are there to offset the fact that you are a kobold. That's a lot of awesome to manage.

[Douche]

I think you guys are getting too hung up on Kobolds here. Then again, the OP did specifically ask for homebrew to fix the Kobold.

I don't have the book so idk what y'all are talking about aside from the info in the comments, but I do think that having negative stat modifiers & stuff like that does help with roleplaying a lot more. The gnome example was a good one. I think that choosing a race should be more of a choice of strengths AND weaknesses, rather than just strengths. The roleplaying capacity of certain abilities is also awesome.

For instance, undead in WoW could breath underwater (technically) since the undead don't require air to live. A lot of players complained about it, saying that it's a useless racial ability (there's like one instance in the entire game where you might risk running out of air - Coilfang Reservoir)... But I liked the flavor of it. What's the alternative? That undead can drown? That makes no sense!

Anyway, I think it's good to think of races as what they represent, how they would make sense in the universe, rather than a set of stat bonuses.

[MaxWilson]

I don't like how the kobolds are the only pc race that gets a negative to a stat (-2 to str). Then Thay are Givin sunlight sensitivity. there cower and grovel ability is kind of cool but doesn't make up for anything. I'm afb but I don't think they even get any skills unlike almost every other race in the book hat get 2. What do ya'll think and any homebrew to fix kobolds.

It's odd. On the one hand, if you mention the Mounted Combatant feat, or the ranged advantage you can gain with Spell Sniper or Sharpshooter, everyone on GITP* will tell you that most adventures take place underground or inside or in thick forests, where mounts aren't useful, so don't even bother with that feat.

On the other hand, if you mention Sunlight Sensitivity, everyone on GITP will tell you that most adventures take place in open air and sunlight, which makes anyone with sunlight sensitivity useless because they will always have disadvantage.

On the gripping hand, kobolds have a built-in way to cancel disadvantage via Pack Tactics, and you can always rely on something other than direct attacks when you are in sunlight. And/or just don't go in the sunlight. D&D is a game about choices, making them, and the consequences thereof. Being a kobold gives you different kinds of choices to make.

* I exaggerate. Not really everyone.

======================================

Kobolds are anything but shafted. They never have disadvantage because of Pack Tactics. Provided they get that going they can never have disadvantage, whether from Sunlight Sensitivity or from any other condition in the game.

BTW, a kobold archer who is avoiding Sunlight Sensitivity via Pack Tactics might as well lie prone to impose disadvantage on enemy counterfire. Just make sure you stand up if any enemies are close enough to hit you with their next move.

It's kind of like a built-in Blur spell.

[Sir cryosin]

Pack tactics are cool. ( swoosh, bang) as an fireball hits the party. Thanks Mr. Kobold. Cower, grovel and beg is just a glorified aid action that you can only do so many times a day. Well at least I can wear a cool pair of shades thanks to the evil sun hurting my eyes. Well I did get a medal in the strong man contest even if it for participation.

[mgshamster]

Well, I guess if you feel something is bad and choose to ignore any counter arguments or evidence, then nothing will really convince you otherwise.

You go through enough characters; might as well give it a try yourself and see how it plays out. At worse, you'll be making a new PC in a few weeks.

[Sir cryosin]

Well, I guess if you feel something is bad and choose to ignore any counter arguments or evidence, then nothing will really convince you otherwise.

You go through enough characters; might as well give it a try yourself and see how it plays out. At worse, you'll be making a new PC in a few weeks.

I'm sorry I was looking forward to playing a kobold but I feel to gimped if I were to play one. I see kobolds and goblin as just about the same but the Goblin pc race is far better then kobold.

[mgshamster]

I'm sorry I was looking forward to playing a kobold but I feel to gimped if I were to play one. I see kobolds and goblin as just about the same but the Goblin pc race is far better then kobold.

Well, I guess you proved my point.

[MaxWilson]

Pack tactics are cool. ( swoosh, bang) as an fireball hits the party. Thanks Mr. Kobold. Cower, grovel and beg is just a glorified aid action that you can only do so many times a day. Well at least I can wear a cool pair of shades thanks to the evil sun hurting my eyes. Well I did get a medal in the strong man contest even if it for participation.

Hypothetical 5th level party:

One tank/utility caster (human Heavy Armor Master/Warcaster Life Cleric 1/Enchanter 4 in plate armor + shield w/ Booming Blade, Fire Bolt, and Absorb Elements)
One tank/scout/summoner/healer (goblin Moon Druid)
One healer/striker (half-elven Warlock 2/Bard 3)
One archer (kobold Sharpshooter Eldritch Knight 5)

In no way is the kobold's tactics making the party more vulnerable to Fireballs. In fact, the party is perfectly capable of fighting in a formation such that a Fireball never hits more than one PC at a time, while still taking full advantage of Pack Tactics. E.g. the Enchanter casts Mage Armor on the Moon Druid, the Moon Druid wildshapes into a Giant Hyena (AC 15 w/ Mage Armor), or a Giant Toad if he wants more control, and starts tanking. The Enchanter launches Fire Bolts, the bardlock shoots Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Blasts (w/ Hex), and the kobold does obscene DPR with Sharpshooter at advantage. None of them have to be within 50' of each other or the Moon Druid, so Fireball is irrelevant.

[Ruslan]

No one who gives any damn about his/her character's Strength score would play a Kobold anyway. The -2 STR is mostly cosmetic.

[Herobizkit]

Negative modifiers. One step closer to 3x. Not impressed.

[MaxWilson]

Negative modifiers. One step closer to 3x. Not impressed.

But also! a step closer to AD&D, which is exciting. Now if we just had real multiclassing and level-limits...

[Sir cryosin]

Ok I understand how good pack tactics can be. I'll admit the fireball jab was wrong. The -2 to str an be circumvented. Sunlight sensitivity is something i'v never delt with so well see when I play one. The cower, grovel and beg ability a little underpower just because it as to recharge I'll like it to be a once per encounter. My friend Hamster I'm not the stubborn type. I do listen to people and try o understand there points. Yes I do seem to come off as a kid sometimes .

[RulesJD]

Short answer: Yes


Long answer: Yes, until you realize that a Kobold Moon Druid is now monstrously powerful by being able to avoid Sunlight Sensitivity while still maintaining Pack Tactics*


*DM discretion is advised.

[MaxWilson]

Ok I understand how good pack tactics can be. I'll admit the fireball jab was wrong. The -2 to str an be circumvented. Sunlight sensitivity is something i'v never delt with so well see when I play one. The cower, grovel and beg ability a little underpower just because it as to recharge I'll like it to be a once per encounter. My friend Hamster I'm not the stubborn type. I do listen to people and try o understand there points. Yes I do seem to come off as a kid sometimes .

You, sir, win respect from me. Good for you.

I agree about cower/grovel/beg. I don't have Volo's yet but it doesn't sound exciting. It's a little better than the Aid action in that it grants advantage to all attacks (e.g. every attack in your fighter buddy's Action Surge), but it's still only one round of advantage, and you could have gotten that advantage in other ways (e.g. knocking someone prone). And the fluff I've heard about it turns me off--makes it sound like everyone gets advantage just because they are so super-protective of the cutesy kobold PC. Yech if so.

[mgshamster]

You, sir, win respect from me. Good for you.

I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone who can recognize and admit their own misgivings in addition to being willing to listen to others deserves respect.

[Sigreid]

I'm actually with you. It's not having a penalty, I can work around that. It's being one of only 2 races that has a penalty. I don't see a good reason a kobold would be weaker than a gnome, for example.

I also think people are over rating pack tactics just a bit. Advantage when an ally is within 5' of your target is nice, don't get me wrong. And it could be great on a party of kobolds, but one kobold having it isn't going to win or lose most fights.

[MaxWilson]

I also think people are over rating pack tactics just a bit. Advantage when an ally is within 5' of your target is nice, don't get me wrong. And it could be great on a party of kobolds, but one kobold having it isn't going to win or lose most fights.

Why not... a whole party full of Kobold Sharpshooter Fighters?!? With Defensive Duelist for whichever kobold gets stuck with melee duty. (He can spend his turns Dodging.)

[Sigreid]

Why not... a whole party full of Kobold Sharpshooter Fighters?!? With Defensive Duelist for whichever kobold gets stuck with melee duty. (He can spend his turns Dodging.)

Yes, that could be pretty good. So can a whole party using gorilla tactics on a bunch of ranged goblins with nimble escape (which I think is a much more powerful ability if used properly), or a party with a wolf barbarian, etc. It's good, it's not an I win button.

[Sir cryosin]

So last night I forgot my character sheet. my DM let me roll up a new character. I decided to try out the kobold I'm playing lv3 just lved to 5th lv at end of he night. He's a shadow monk I play him like rocket racoon that lies and make up stories. The group was talking and we are giving kobold a adility like the lizards folks ability to craft weapons. But kobolds can craft traps then as as bonus action set up a trap. Then we are playing around with getting rid of sunlight sensitivity. But I'm having a blast with my shadow monk kobold name Glenn but he don't always response to it.

[Maxilian]

So last night I forgot my character sheet. my DM let me roll up a new character. I decided to try out the kobold I'm playing lv3 just lved to 5th lv at end of he night. He's a shadow monk I play him like rocket racoon that lies and make up stories. The group was talking and we are giving kobold a adility like the lizards folks ability to craft weapons. But kobolds can craft traps then as as bonus action set up a trap. Then we are playing around with getting rid of sunlight sensitivity. But I'm having a blast with my shadow monk kobold name Glenn but he don't always response to it.

Its quite nice that you enjoy it, but if you plan on getting rid of sunlight sensitivity, then your DM shall get rid of Pack Tactics (the only reasons they have Pact Tactics without it being much is thanks to the Sunlight Sensitivity)

[Maxilian]

Something interesting, a Kobold with a Familiar (mainly if it have Flyby) would do great cause it will have an assure way to activate "Pack Tactics" by itself without having to worry if there's an ally nearby their enemy (And also that let them get Advantage while also giving another teammenber advantage with their familiar "Help action")

Note: This is also a way to take advantage of Find Familiar mid combat without having to use an action (or bonus action) with your it.

[MaxWilson]

Yes, that could be pretty good. So can a whole party using gorilla tactics on a bunch of ranged goblins with nimble escape (which I think is a much more powerful ability if used properly), or a party with a wolf barbarian, etc. It's good, it's not an I win button.

Yeah, to my powergamer's eye, goblins are clearly the most powerful new race. Competitive with or sometimes even better than humans and half-elves. Being able to get bonus action Disengage/Hide without devoting two levels to Rogue is incredibly significant, especially for classes like wizards and moon druids who have easy ways to generate heavy obscurement and no pressing need for their bonus action.