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    Default General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Last edited by ocel; 2016-11-08 at 10:37 PM.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    What are people's views on David Hill's half-kindred/half-lost template?

    Personally I like it, has elements of both without just being vampire+changeling, and has extra issues like the lack of a mask.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Porting a question over from the last thread: could anyone point me at where it says that 1s do not work on soak and damage rolls? You obviously can't botch those, but I've been told they shouldn't subtract successes, either.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    What are people's views on David Hill's half-kindred/half-lost template?

    Personally I like it, has elements of both without just being vampire+changeling, and has extra issues like the lack of a mask.
    Personally I'm not overly fond of hybrids. If I was to do this I'd have one of the templates as 'primary' and use the Z-splat for the other.

    For example, all werewolves who are embraced gain the Uratha bloodline, and can't take another one. They gain Protean as an in-clan discipline (or Vigor for Gangrel), and access to a number of gift-like merits. When they reach Protean 3 they immediately become able to assume the form of a wolf even if they haven't consumed one.

    Now, I'm personally thinking of abandoning WoD for CofD completely, I don't like the focus on trying to make WoD darker and more focused on horror from White Wolf, while Onyx Path seem to be open to the CofD books changing in a direction I enjoy, becoming both more thematic and more Urban Fantasy. Especially with Changeling 2e, the game I'm by far the most interesting, round the corner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
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    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    Porting a question over from the last thread: could anyone point me at where it says that 1s do not work on soak and damage rolls? You obviously can't botch those, but I've been told they shouldn't subtract successes, either.
    Well you haven't really specified what game line and which edition you're playing.

    I just spent the last 20 minutes searching through M20 and V20 for examples. V20 mentions on page 272 that damage rolls cannot botch, and that a botched roll means the attack harmlessly glances off the target. This implies that a 1 will still subtract from your successes. However M20 makes no mention of this at all and it seems that you CAN botch a damage roll, though no advice is given on how it would be handled. This could be different in other editions of the games.

    For clarity's sake I used ctrl+f to find every instance of the word botch in my pdf copy of both books and read the combat sections.
    Last edited by fishyfishyfishy; 2016-11-14 at 09:57 AM.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by fishyfishyfishy View Post
    Well you haven't really specified what game line and which edition you're playing.

    I just spent the last 20 minutes searching through M20 and V20 for examples. V20 mentions on page 272 that damage rolls cannot botch, and that a botched roll means the attack harmlessly glances off the target. This implies that a 1 will still subtract from your successes. However M20 makes no mention of this at all and it seems that you CAN botch a damage roll, though no above is given on how it would be handled. This could be different in other editions of the games.

    For clarity's sake I used ctrl+f to find every instance of the word botch in my pdf copy of both books and read the combat sections.
    Oh yeah, sorry, it was about V20. Seems like it's working as intended with 1s subtracting, which is kinda annoying, but I'll have to live with it.

    In the meantime, another question has come up (boy, how do I keep asking questions after playing this for a year?), also about V20. The damage rules on p.285 say quite explicitly that bashing damage alone can send a vampire into torpor just as easily as lethal damage, but I've been reading Lore of the Clans recently and Brujah "bashing" not-exactly-a-ritual says that both combatants have to inflict at least one lethal damage level on each other with their bare hands, which seems to be impossible, unless bashing doesn't send you into torpor and instead just wraps around starting to become lethal. So how does bashing damage work on vamps?
    Last edited by Ignimortis; 2016-11-10 at 03:05 AM.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I'm not sure what the official ruling is, but I run it like CofD: bashing damage can't knock you out, and wraps round to become lethal damage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    Oh yeah, sorry, it was about V20. Seems like it's working as intended with 1s subtracting, which is kinda annoying, but I'll have to live with it.

    In the meantime, another question has come up (boy, how do I keep asking questions after playing this for a year?), also about V20. The damage rules on p.285 say quite explicitly that bashing damage alone can send a vampire into torpor just as easily as lethal damage, but I've been reading Lore of the Clans recently and Brujah "bashing" not-exactly-a-ritual says that both combatants have to inflict at least one lethal damage level on each other with their bare hands, which seems to be impossible, unless bashing doesn't send you into torpor and instead just wraps around starting to become lethal. So how does bashing damage work on vamps?
    Page 285 of V20 covers it pretty thoroughly.

    If your character falls to Incapacitated and then takes another level of bashing damage, she enters torpor (p. 283). If your character falls to Incapacitated due to bashing damage but then takes a level of aggravated damage, she meets Final Death.
    When your character’s Health boxes fill to Incapacitated and she takes a further level of lethal damage, she enters torpor (p. 283). If your character is reduced to Incapacitated via lethal damage, and she takes a further level of aggravated damage, she meets Final Death.
    Page 283 says the following:

    Vampires who enter torpor due to wounds must rest for a period depending on their Humanity or Path rating: Humanity/Path Length of Torpor
    • 10 One day
    • 9 Three days
    • 8 One week
    • 7 Two weeks
    • 6 One month
    • 5 One year
    • 4 One decade
    • 3 Five decades
    • 2 One century
    • 1 Five centuries
    • 0 Millennium+



    Following this period of rest, the player may spend a blood point and make an Awakening roll (p. 262) for her character to rise. If the vampire has no blood in her body, she may not rise until she is fed; if the player fails the Awakening roll, she may spend another blood point and make an Awakening roll the following night. If the vampire rises successfully, she is considered Crippled and should either spend blood or hunt immediately.
    Hope this helps
    Last edited by fishyfishyfishy; 2016-11-14 at 10:14 AM.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by fishyfishyfishy View Post
    Hope this helps
    Thanks! I don't understand how the "bash" is supposed to work with that, though, but w/e.
    Oh, by the way - I'd like to know how people actually handle the torpor length. Having 5 or less humanity basically says "that character is as good as dead" if you fall into torpor. That probably is very counterproductive?
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I'm away from my books so I can't check if this was just us or actual rules but we always had you could be 'shocked' out of Torpor by an infusion of Kindred Vitae of a higher Generation than you
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    This is just something interesting. So I'm part of an oWoD game where we're essentially going through a modified sandbox module for an AD&D retroclone. And it's just really interesting, both in the sheer level of power variance. (Given we have a Demon, and a handful of High Arete Mages, some threats that are written in the book are laughably insufficient. While others are rather difficult) And in the attitude.

    The latter was most highlighted during a moment where, after crossing a pond of sewage underneath a fortress we were investigating. (Turns out there's a cave network that connects to the Latrines!) by technomagically building an instant bridge. We noticed a handful of gold in the pond of sewage. Apparently the module was meant to tempt the players into wading in there to grab those precious GP.

    The characters, being resources 3 and above proceeded to just kind of shrug and go back to infiltrating the fortress. Ignoring the gold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Hello again. I jut rethought my ideas for more Seer Ministries for the other Arcana.

    First, I've heard of Pantechnicon which is associated with technology. And I have also heard it associated with Matter like the Ministry of Mammon. Personally I think they should be associated with Spirit arcana. Dedicated to rendering technology into an incomprehensible trap.

    For my own ideas.

    The Ministry of Karma: Dedicated to Time. They were a previous great ministry originally hailing from India. In the last few hundred years though they have collapsed and a significant number of members throughout the hierarchy defected to the Pentacle. Now they are more localized and typically thuggish. They have some overlap with the Hegemon, both desirous of hierarchy and strong social order, but without Hegemon's subjugation of the individual.

    Ministry of Nepenthe: Dedicated to Life, the Nepenthe are a somewhat poor but powerful ministry whose ideology resembles that of Mammon from below. They hold the same materialism but work to bury the lower classes in their own minds rather than corrupting the wealthy.

    Ministry of Moratorium: Dedicated to (Death or Fate), this group focuses on destroying the past and suppressing mystical knowledge. All ministries engage in this, but only the Censors consider it their primary duty. Working dutifully to scour wonder from the world and hold onto it themselves. Fragments of the supernal ground into dust. History rewritten to remove any sense of hope or glory leaving nothing but ash.

    Note, Karma seems to work better with Fate and Moratorium with Time. But the Prophet of Time fits the Ministry of Karma and the Ruin fits the Moratorium.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I've been looking up info on True Faith, and it looks like True Faith is exclusively Christian. I don't want to start a religious argument, but doesn't that imply that Christianity in World of Darkness is the only working faith for the purposes of being a devout believer who gets miracles sometimes?
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    I've been looking up info on True Faith, and it looks like True Faith is exclusively Christian. I don't want to start a religious argument, but doesn't that imply that Christianity in World of Darkness is the only working faith for the purposes of being a devout believer who gets miracles sometimes?
    You can have True Faith in anything, IIRC there is a Baali with True Faith in the concept of Evil.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Sydonai View Post
    You can have True Faith in anything, IIRC there is a Baali with True Faith in the concept of Evil.
    Yes. The merit explicitly calls out examples of various supernaturals with the merit and how it might work.

    True Faith (7 pt. Merit)
    Strong belief is essential for a mage. You, however, hold
    stronger beliefs than usual. Possessing convictions in a greater
    outside power, you can channel that power for miraculous feats
    that go beyond mere magick.
    Game-wise, your character has one dot of True Faith – a
    potent force, in the World of Darkness, that reflects devotion
    to a god or pantheon. Despite the usual association between
    Faith and Christianity, your character can belong to any sincere
    creed with an established moral code and historical legacy.

    (Sorry, but True Faith in postmodern satires like the Flying
    Spaghetti Monster does not count.) A Technocrat can hold
    True Faith too, although such Faith is pretty unusual. (See
    Technocratic Faith, Chapter Five, p. 184.) Even Marauders
    and Nephandi can possess True Faith, although the Fallen
    version of this Merit inverts the usual purity associated with
    True Faith. Such Faith adds one die per point to Willpower
    rolls, offers countermagick rolls (even for characters who cannot
    normally use countermagick), and might allow the character
    to employ other miraculous powers at the Storyteller’s option.

    That quote comes from M20, but it does have very similar wording in the other games. I'm not sure how anyone could come to a different conclusion given the part I made bold.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    I've been looking up info on True Faith, and it looks like True Faith is exclusively Christian. I don't want to start a religious argument, but doesn't that imply that Christianity in World of Darkness is the only working faith for the purposes of being a devout believer who gets miracles sometimes?
    There's also the guy with true faith in the power of his bank account. Who repels vampires with his debit card.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by fishyfishyfishy View Post
    Yes. The merit explicitly calls out examples of various supernaturals with the merit and how it might work.
    That quote comes from M20, but it does have very similar wording in the other games. I'm not sure how anyone could come to a different conclusion given the part I made bold.
    V20 only gives the following:
    Quote Originally Posted by V20 Core Rulebook
    You have a deep-seated faith in and love for God, or whatever name you choose to call the Almighty. You begin the game with one point of True Faith (see the sidebar on p. 372); this Trait adds one die per point to all Willpower and Virtue rolls. You must have a Humanity of 9 or higher to choose this Merit, and if you lose even a single point, all your Faith points are lost and may be regained only when the lost Humanity is recovered.
    I don't own any other WoD game lines, so my only source is the internet (and I tend to prefix my searches with "VtM" or "WoD V20") and various VtM rulebooks. That's interesting - VtM seems to ascribe True Faith to God with the capital G, while other games seem to avoid that. Eh, I wish I'd known about this earlier. My character is pretty damn devout in his Odin (and subsequently most of the other Aesir too) worship. But I'm pretty sure anything like Norse faith wouldn't really require high Humanity at all, and wouldn't be really focused on warding off the supernatural, either.

    Anyway, thanks for the answers, everyone. I wonder if my ST and I can whip up some more True Faiths (although I don't think he'll approve).
    Last edited by Ignimortis; 2016-11-26 at 03:26 PM.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    My character is pretty damn devout in his Odin (and subsequently most of the other Aesir too) worship.
    You have a deep-seated faith in and love for God, or whatever name you choose to call the Almighty.
    Cainites were originally descended from Caine, who was cursed by the Abrahamic God.
    So they usually assume the Abrahamic religions are more or less true, and since the books are usually narrated from the PoV of whatever specific Splat they are about...

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    V20 only gives the following:


    I don't own any other WoD game lines, so my only source is the internet (and I tend to prefix my searches with "VtM" or "WoD V20") and various VtM rulebooks. That's interesting - VtM seems to ascribe True Faith to God with the capital G, while other games seem to avoid that. Eh, I wish I'd known about this earlier. My character is pretty damn devout in his Odin (and subsequently most of the other Aesir too) worship. But I'm pretty sure anything like Norse faith wouldn't really require high Humanity at all, and wouldn't be really focused on warding off the supernatural, either.

    Anyway, thanks for the answers, everyone. I wonder if my ST and I can whip up some more True Faiths (although I don't think he'll approve).
    V20 gives a more detailed description of True Faith on page 372. Why on earth they didn't put the large block that appears there on page 494 instead, where the text for the merit is, I'll never understand. Sure 370 and 371 is where they discuss the Inquisition and the Society of Leopold, but True Faith could have just been briefly mentioned and given a page reference instead of just taking it on there.

    Ugh why does every World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness book have such terrible formatting?
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Random amusing realization I just had: the fastest way to earn XP in Beast: The Primordial is literally by bingeing and purging.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I think I broke my GM. o.o'

    So I was playing an Acanthus in the newest Chronicles of Darkness rules. Ended up investigating something in werewolf territory and negotiations did not go as well as they could have. Ended up hitting the Uratha with the Fate 3 Shared Fate with two raises, so that he could damage nothing but himself. The GM is now trying to figure out how long he rages through the city ripping his own flesh to pieces.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Speaking of Beast, did anyone else read that book and think to themselves "wow, these make excellent antagonists for other games but I will never run or play this"?
    Last edited by fishyfishyfishy; 2016-11-28 at 09:37 AM.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Eh, I'm one of those who could see themselves playing the preview version and not liking the changes they made.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    And I'm one of those people who made a brief attempt at playing the first draft when it came out but the game died because PbP and who keeps meaning to get to around to reading the final version but hasn't because it's just not a high priority.

    That said, I am starting to get an itch to maybe make an interest check thread soon...
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    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    To be honest, one of the only issues I have with BtP is that I can't figureout what you're meant to do in the game other than feed.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    To be honest, one of the only issues I have with BtP is that I can't figureout what you're meant to do in the game other than feed.
    Interact with your "relatives".

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I wasn't playing CofD during the time of the Beast kickstarter so I don't know what actually changed in the revision. What was different to have such severe reactions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sydonai View Post
    Interact with your "relatives".
    Except that's not exactly much of a thing for beasts to do, anyone can do that. Beasts basically just have the benefit of being able to enter the splat's plane and being able to make nightmares based on their friends (which is abit redundant considering if you want a homebrew nightmare you could just make a homebrew nightmare).
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    Except that's not exactly much of a thing for beasts to do, anyone can do that. Beasts basically just have the benefit of being able to enter the splat's plane and being able to make nightmares based on their friends (which is abit redundant considering if you want a homebrew nightmare you could just make a homebrew nightmare).
    ...That was in quotation marks to signify that I meant other Splats, Beasts are supposed to get involved in crossover shenanigans.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Sydonai View Post
    ...That was in quotation marks to signify that I meant other Splats, Beasts are supposed to get involved in crossover shenanigans.
    I know.... I'm saying any splat can do crossover and discussed how little crossover content there actually is in Beast.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Old World Werewolf question...

    What would happen to a werewolf's hybrid or wolf form if the human is missing a leg (or two)? I am working on a new PC who is an Army vet and lost a leg (or two) to an IED. In human form, he has prosthetic legs that don't really affect his mobility. But those would not be usable in his other forms, and I am not sure how to handle that. He's a combat character, so not being able to run (or stand) would cause problems.
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