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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Hello again. I have been randomly thinking about/looking for random things I remember reading about related to Promethean the Created. Mostly I remember a thread/quote where someone compared different new World of Darkness games to girlfriends, and Promethean was the one who was so nice but never quite worked out. The other was a discussion of qashmal and angels where I think a developer argued that the qashmal never called themselves angels and described themselves as messengers. But then someone pointed out that angel literally means messenger and that the modern meaning of angel developed later. Thus qashmal effectively called themselves angels.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Hey, long time no posts in this thread!

    Does anyone have any tips for fighting Tremere antitribu in oWoD? My ST seems to be building to a confrontation with one. What's known about this guy is that he's mostly Path of Blood, and possibly some Elemental Mastery as well. Said Tremere has also apparently been creating some kind of weird humanoid abominations with poison spines and the like who we might have to fight as well.

    Group that would be fighting him is a melee/Path of Blood Tremere (and not a super powerful one, two dots in each of the in-clan disciplines and maybe half a dozen low-level rituals), two Brujah, and a much older, (although still probably not elder) Nosferatu, along with a couple of ghouls, but t

  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by AshfireMage View Post
    Hey, long time no posts in this thread!

    Does anyone have any tips for fighting Tremere antitribu in oWoD? My ST seems to be building to a confrontation with one. What's known about this guy is that he's mostly Path of Blood, and possibly some Elemental Mastery as well. Said Tremere has also apparently been creating some kind of weird humanoid abominations with poison spines and the like who we might have to fight as well.

    Group that would be fighting him is a melee/Path of Blood Tremere (and not a super powerful one, two dots in each of the in-clan disciplines and maybe half a dozen low-level rituals), two Brujah, and a much older, (although still probably not elder) Nosferatu, along with a couple of ghouls, but t
    Hmm. that sounds awfully like he's got a significant amount of Viccisitude as well. Not impossible as the Tremere/ Tszimisce conflict provided both sides opportunities for Diablerie on the other side but that would make him significantly old and powerful

    More in general Tremere do lots of Rituals/Ward which they can use on their Havens so definitely avoid taking them on on their home ground if you can. Also if the Tremere does have Slaztcha (flesh crafted ghouls) beware of them as they can come at you int he day if the Tremere gets wind you're coming for him
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  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Give it some time and they'll all be killed anyway by the meta-plot

    More seriously, fight them the way you would any other vampire. Don't go in with a straight on duel in mind, plan to catch them off guard at their most vulnerable and take them out quickly. If you can locate their haven you can deal with it easily with the blood bond and mesmerize. Have it assaulted during the day by ghouls wielding fire and stakes. Light it up and make sure nothing escapes. If you don't already know the location, get someone on that ASAP. Ghoul some police investigators if you have to but find that haven! Extrapolate possible locations by their past movements. Gather information on your targets before attacking, and never do so unless you have the advantage of surprise and numbers. If all else fails, tip off some Hunters or Garou that may be in the area. If the are none, get in touch with the Tremere Archon. They'd definitely look to help take down some Antitribu.
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  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse
    Hmm. that sounds awfully like he's got a significant amount of Viccisitude as well. Not impossible as the Tremere/ Tszimisce conflict provided both sides opportunities for Diablerie on the other side but that would make him significantly old and powerful
    There's actually a Tzimice involved here, too, but the way the conflict is set up, I'm not sure if my char will be fighting him.

    I guess I should explain the situation more fully, but I didn't want to create a wall of text nobody wanted to read. Basically, the city was invaded by the Sabbat several months ago. They did a lot of damage and could probably have destroyed the rest of the vampire presence in the city and torn the Masquerade to shreds, but instead they abruptly disappeared. After some investigation, it was discovered that they had holed up in a the prison outside of town, where they could stay pretty much infinitely- they had taken over the running of the place, but left day-to-day operations more-or-less intact, so they had all the mortals they wanted to feed and experiment on, as well as plenty of time and privacy to do their business. Attempts to come up with some way of luring them out or do just about anything other than a direct assault were stalled when it was discovered that these particular Sabbat might be infernalists as well, and were currently attempting to summon... something from the depths of Oblivion

    So now, everyone in the Cam that's capable of fighting (along with a bit of support from the Anarchs and Giovanni, some ghouls supplied by socially prominent noncombatants, and the Ventrue primogen's private army) is about to assault the prison. I'm actually quite impressed, our ST managed to come up with mass combat rules for the VtM system that, while they haven't been tried yet, look like they''re at least vaguely functional. Each PC is controlling their own character plus a group of assorted NPCs- for example, I get my Tremere, the Nosferatu primogen, a couple of Anarchs, and their ghouls.

    The way the story is set up thus far, most of the PCs have a sort of arch-nemesis among the Sabbat at the prison (the two Gangrel had their fiancee killed and were viciously fleshcrafted, respectively by a Tzimice, the Brujah has tangled with this particular Lasombra before, etc), so I'm thinking it's most likely that we'll end up facing that particular member.

    So yeah, tl;dr is that it's kind of impossible to avoid direct confrontation at this point, but we might still be able to be sort of tricky if we work hard.

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Bennosuke's hoping to get an ST and players for a game of Promethean or Changeling 2e; any takers?
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I'm going to be running a game in nWoD for the first time, and I just wanted to ask: Isn't it overly heavy on rules? I played oWoD back in the day, and I found the system nicely flexible. It was a storytelling system, after all. In particular the whole "Condition" business seems overly complex. Do you find that the system allows for a more casual resolution of this and that.

    Also, I really don't like the Beats system. Are there any popular homebrew rules for just rewarding plain old XP?
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Both are basically non-issues in actual play. You can just replace Beats with XP, and increase the XP costs of everything by however many beats used to be in an XP, and have the exact same thing. It's just a slightly more confusing terminology, really.
    If your issues are more "when do Beats get handed out", one common optional rule (even one listed in the rulebooks as a variant rule) is group beats, in which rather than tracking per-person, all beats are added to a group pool and then divided evenly every session. One common suggestion is to use a physical marker; pebbles, marbles, pennies, something similar so that you don't have to say "take a beat" and wait for the other person to mark it down, you can just hand them a marker to add to their little pile of markers. Same thing works really well for Willpower and any other spendable power-source; Mana, Blood Points, Glamour, whatever the fuel stat is for the game you're playing. A lot easier to have your little pile of tokens than to constantly mark and erase every time you recharge or use a power.

    If your issue is more "I don't want to grant XP during play, I want to just do it at the end of every session instead"... Well, many mechanics use XP rewards as a way of incentivising Player behaviour, from Conditions to Dramatic Failures. There's nothing STOPPING you from just handing out arbitrary XP amounts at the end of session, and if your players already act well as if they were in horror stories, including stuff that's not beneficial to the characters or the groups (y'know, like going off on your own to investigate, or touching the strange runes on the walls, things people do in horror movies that a cautious player might not), then it could work out fine. If your players tend to be more of the cautious I-want-to-do-what's-best-for-my-character type, as opposed to nWoD's ideal I-want-to-do-what's-best-for-the-STORY, then you might want to try using tokens like I described above as a middle ground. You can hand out XP/Beats for Aspirations at the end, and then just remember that it's an XP/Beat whenever you resolve a Condition or choose to take a Dramatic Failure, as a rule-of-thumb, then just slide over a token as you describe the results of the actions.

    Conditions and tilts, meanwhile, are simply a more consistent way of describing things you probably already do. "This effect makes you frightened". "Your leg is broken!" "You're charmed by the powerful fairy" etc etc etc. All this is stuff you probably describe anyways, but this way you have a way to CONVINCE the players to play along, because if they play along they get Beats. You can still arbitrarily decide on affects and modifiers and similar anyways, and just ignore it, but really, what is a condition anyways? All a condition really is, is an effect, a way to get rid of the effect, and a small reward to encourage the player to act in a certain manner. If you put any sort of effect on your player, and decide to use an XP reward to encourage their behaviour instead of outright telling them "You have to act in this way", you're already using Conditions just without the name.

    Hell, some Conditions, all they are is "If you act in a manner conducive to the horror story, you'll get an XP reward." Like the condition Spooked, all it is is an XP bonus if your character does something like wander off to investigate alone, or otherwise complicate the story through their fear or fascination with the new supernatural thing that gave them the Spooked condition. It's all about trying to convince players to have their characters do things that the PLAYER knows is bad for the character, but the CHARACTER might not. It also allows characters to act under NPC influence without totally taking control away from the players. You can have an NPC roll to seduce or intimidate a PC, and then give them a Condition that says "If you act seduced or intimidated, you get a little more XP". Again, as with the other Beats thing, there's nothing stopping you from just giving arbitrary DM rulings instead, especially if your players are willing to act seduced or intimidated or similar anyways.

    One other speed-bump that will probably come up in your reading: the social rules. Whoever was deciding the order of sections in the book screwed up, and put the "I want to cozy up to the CEO so he gives me a promotion" rules BEFORE the "I just want to fast-talk my way past a guard in a single interaction" rules, even though the latter rules are the ones that come up more often, and are what people expect to be the "default" rules. A lot of people (myself included) raised our eyebrows at the first long-term persuasion rules, assuming that because it was first it was the default social interaction rules, but really, it's still the single-roll rules for single interactions that's the "default" rules. It wasn't until someone told me to imagine as if they had put those rules FIRST in the section and THEN described the long-term persuasion rules that it really 'clicked' for me.
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  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I very much dislike the Beats system and would never want to run or play in a game using it, but thankfully, it's completely trivial to replace. You can just hand out Beats for the group or even simpler, when you feel it's appropriate, say "Everyone gets an Advance!" and be done with it. I think the Beats system is a terrible idea but you should really not let that discourage you from the game itself.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I finally got to play nWoD again this last weekend. And I got a few questions about armor and armor spells stacking. Does normal armor stack with a spell that provides armor? Do multiple different spell that provide armor stack?
    It is very specific that the same spell does not stack, but gets vauge about different spells.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    If anyone who cares didn't already hear, Onyx Path has started their Kickstarter for Geist 2e:

    http://theonyxpath.com/geist-2nd-edi...arter-is-live/

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    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I'm definitely enjoying the first few chapters of 2e geist.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Are there any potential hiccups I need to know about if I'm going to run a game that starts with the PCs being mortal and becoming vampires later on? Some of my group and I were talking about a movie style 1920s detective game that goes from normal stuff to supernatural stuff and I thought I could probably use Requiem 2nd edition for it.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Define "hiccup". You'll definitely have to spend some in-game time or downtime between sessions for the PCs to get adjusted to being vampires.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    My last game of 'Requiem' started with us all as human and worked fine. As none of us had played it before it meant the ST didn't have to keep explaining what we should know about Vampire society and it was fun for us to discover it all for ourselves. The only potential problem is as 'new borns' the PC's will probably be the lowest rung of Kindred society
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Mostly I'm worried about the possibility of any experience they spend as humans being less valuable long term than if they just bank it until they're vampires to pick up supernatural powers and if I should tell them that, how much help I should give them building their characters and so on.
    Last edited by Grim Portent; 2018-07-05 at 06:02 AM.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Nah, unless they go, like, social-heavy as a mortal and then become a Nosferatu, any skills or contacts they pick up as a mortal would be useful as a Vamp. Supernatural powers don't help you if you need to perform first-aid on a gunshot wound victim.
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  18. - Top - End - #228
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Well I can't see anyone going Nosferatu, not even sure how many of those I plan to have in totally-not-Chicago. Thanks, it's been several years since I last played any WoD stuff so I'm a bit rusty on the main concerns that can come up other than remembering several party members in the last game I was in being sidelined every now and then because mind control guy made a better face than the other socials who had different supernatural focuses.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    If you're worried about supernatural effects outshining skills in the same area, try to emphasize short-term vs long-term benefits. A social-skill character will be able to draw on allies and assets that simply a mind-control character without such skills can't, but for immediate damn-the-consequences effects, you can't beat Domination. You can also emphasize the costs and downside of Domination especially; it's not natural, and so might leave a character wondering "Why did I do that?", or worse if they realize what happened, while a normal social-skill character doesn't have those drawbacks.

    Also, will you be deciding what clans they join over the course of the story, or will you be giving them the opportunity to decide what clan their sire is? If the former, you can try to match up to play to their strengths rather than their weaknesses. Someone who mostly plays as an investigator-PI type could gain the attention of a Mekhet sire, and so on. If they get the chance to decide for their character (either in-character being given the choice, or out-of-character telling you that they want their character to be Gangrel and letting you decide how to make that happen), then you can probably trust them to make decent decisions.

    Another thing to consider; how will you run the Embrace scenes? Embracing a whole group all at once is rare. The easiest way to do this would have them all come into contact and ideally ally with a single covenant who decides to embrace them all into the covenant. Otherwise you risk either having one person embraced before the others, or have a weird situation where they all simultaneously get embraced at coincidentally the same time. Alternatively, you can have them have a stint of ghoulhood, but then you risk Vitae addiction which you might want to avoid if that's not a theme you want to explore near the beginning of the game.
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  20. - Top - End - #230
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Well the game is going to be set in the prohibition era, so I figure it could be fun to tie the vampire heirarchy in with the shifting of criminal gang heirarchy and have things mostly be run by relatively new vampires who jumped up in personal and organizational power the way a lot of gangsters did when bootleg alcohol became important and things got shaken up in organized crime, and I plan to only include a handful of actual vampires, at least early on. Also tying in some themes of the women's liberation movement with younger (and female) vampires being more rebellious against the hidebound traditional covenant heirarchy could work.

    Handful of Daeva clan vamps I have ideas for, mostly associated with speakeasies and gentleman's clubs, Ventrues and Gangrels in the actual gangs and bootlegging side of things. Not seeing much space for Nosferatu or Mekhet clan in the outline I've got, though a Mekhet liking PIs does fit.

    The only Covenants I have thoughts about so far is that the Lancea would probably work as a group loosely aligned with the prohibitionist movement, viewing drunkeness among vampires as both immoral and a risk to the Masquerade, and the Carthians being heavily involved in bootlegging and 'modern' (for the period) organized crime.

    For the actual embrace thing, I'm leaning towards making it optional and by invitation. Some of the vampires essentially leaving an open invitation to be embraced for any PCs they take a shine to after some time interacting with the criminal underworld's literal underworld.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Ultimately it is irrelevant to me due to my poor social skills and unwillingness to accept the existence of a second edition means that any hope of ever playing any new world of darkness. I mean Chronicles of Darkness game approaches zero.

    But what I wanted to know is what is the soul according to the game. Fundamentally what does it do. I know deletrious effects occur if it is taken, loss of will power and morality in the original Requim etc gamelines. Why do you think this occurs.

    I am asking because I have some thoughts about souls as well as some other things.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    I don't think there's ever been a single definitive answer to this question, except maybe in Mage.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Mage has a whole pile of cool ways to play with souls (eat them, destroy them, replace them, remove them, etc), but they remain one of the big mysteries in the game. In Mage, they may even be a capital-m Mystery, one that a campaign may revolve around unveiling.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Basically, this is the kind of existential question that some gamelines are very interested in asking, but won't definitively answer.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Bah humbug. Mumble Mumble mysticism. But yeah I see that point that it is meant to be mysterious. But I don't know, it doesn't seem like it had to be like that. I was thinking about it because I was reflecting on one of my personal ideas which I have shared at least once before. Which is definitely meant to be a mystery that people answer. The nature of the Strix.

    My idea has always been that fundamentally the Strix and the Beast are the same thing. A vampire in torpor metastizes new Strix as their blood potency fades, their vampiric essence sloughs off and takes on an existence of its own. And I kept thinking about what that meant and it made me ask the question, what if the Beast is a vampire's soul (which ties in with something I saw once about mind body spirit but only vaguely remembered). So I wondered if the soul carries identiy or not or if instead in a way it is the basic animating force from which desires and urges manifest. I think kind of like the lower soul in exalted.

    This line of thought led to some more interesting thoughts. Notably all major templates at their core modify the soul which is why they can't overlap. This is at least partially cannon because if you surpress the memories of magic in a mage's mind they still have the potential, magic is on another level from their identity. Also it made me decide that in a way ghosts aren't people. Or at least they are not souls. They are identities which have lingered once the soul has passed on. Maybe though some connection remains, who knows.

    Also the random thing I saw about alchemy once which existed in a similar mind body spirit tryptich amusingly identified the three as corpus, spiritus and animus. The spiritus being the mind and the animus the soul. Just amused me.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Souls in CofD are mainly just your connection to the astral and your drive to act. Without one you will slowly lose the ability to care about things, until eventually you cannot develop further as a person, you can't defend yourself, you can't try hard at anything. But your soul is not the seat of your personality, and if you have your soul removed then you'll be fine as long as someone plugs in a new soul, even if that soul was previously in someone else.

    Also, Ghosts are people, even if they lack souls (though some necromancers disagree and use it as justification to abuse them or devour them for immortality because they're "just phenomena").
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    The Beast being a Strix (or at least related to them) is hinted at several times. I like this idea of lowering shadow blood potency by shedding baby Strix.

    I always took vampires to sort of be two-souled (kind of like Durkon in OotS); the Man is what is left of their original human soul and the Beast is the Strix-soul. In Kindred, the two are partially fused and fight for control, with Humanity sort of representing how much influence each has.

  28. - Top - End - #238
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    Souls in CofD are mainly just your connection to the astral and your drive to act. Without one you will slowly lose the ability to care about things, until eventually you cannot develop further as a person, you can't defend yourself, you can't try hard at anything. But your soul is not the seat of your personality, and if you have your soul removed then you'll be fine as long as someone plugs in a new soul, even if that soul was previously in someone else.

    Also, Ghosts are people, even if they lack souls (though some necromancers disagree and use it as justification to abuse them or devour them for immortality because they're "just phenomena").
    I question the connection to the astral in a way, or at least I think I do. Something about the explanation doesn't seem right. But the nature of the soul does make sense with what I was thinking about the Beast. And as for Ghosts, that is a really good point. But makes me realize that souls aren't people. Now damaging a living soul would clearly be ethically wrong but if the soul is not the seat of identity then a soul by itself, say after someones natural death, is not rationally sacrosanct. And furthermore, on these so called truly true supernal realms, while I agree that the hostile demiurges who rule it are unworthy of the role is there any real value to them.
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  29. - Top - End - #239
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Grytorm View Post
    I question the connection to the astral in a way, or at least I think I do.
    The astral is literally the collective soul, the onerios is your personal soul if you are human or a mage, the temenos is humanities collective soul, and the anima mundi is the collective souls of everything that isn't human.

    Now damaging a living soul would clearly be ethically wrong but if the soul is not the seat of identity then a soul by itself, say after someones natural death, is not rationally sacrosanct.
    That is the view of some mages yes.

    And furthermore, on these so called truly true supernal realms, while I agree that the hostile demiurges who rule it are unworthy of the role is there any real value to them.
    I'm not sure why you're mentioning the Exarchs out of nowhere.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #5: Chronicles of Duty: Modern Darkness

    The idea that the Strix are the same Beast that dwells in vampires, but untethered from any kind of humanity, is a common take on it. But not one the books will objectively support, because again that's not that nWoD/CofD does. Strix aren't really a mystery people are "meant" to answer, either. They might, but in many other games Strix are going to remain as mysterious as they're horrifically dangerous.
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