Why the villain doesn't kill the PC ?

[Âmesang]

Release them with falsified evidence that they're the ones committing the villainous acts?

[Joe the Rat]

I haven't said it before, but the warlord is a woman (that makes her a "warlady" ???), so the option of having her being an ex-wife or ex-girlfriend or whatever sounds like a lot of fun.
Well maybe not for the ex-husband
I would talk about this with the players, if nobody takes the privilege (and the burden) of the role I will switch to the good, old torture...

Is there anyone in the party that's known for his or her "Downtime Activities?" Do you have a Bard? Start with one of them, and keep it quiet. We don't want to spoil the surprise for everyone else.

Of course, you can always combine this one with the Slaadpoles one.

[Sneak Dog]

Spoiler: ― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms quote

Show

“Something Vimes had learned as a young guard drifted up from memory. If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat.

They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar.

So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.”

Other options:
He will try to convince the PC's he's not evil and they should join them. ("I'm raising an army to stop impending doom! There is no time to be nice about it.")
He'll shove them in the direction of a different evil threat. ("You like destroying evil, right? Hmm... I've a rival, really evil too, right up your alley!")
He'll use them in a ritual. (Like one that staves off an impending horde of destruction. All kinds of unpredictable fun.)

Some (often mentioned) motivations:

• Honour
• Blood bond
• Love
• Gloating
• Show
• Negotiation (ransom, trade for other valuable prisoners)
• To keep the rivalry going

[Stealth Marmot]

Of course, you can always combine this one with the Slaadpoles one.

[The Fury]

Maybe the villain thinks PCs might know something useful? If that were the case a pragmatic villain might keep them around long enough to question them.

[Jay R]

He has a quest for them, too dangerous to risk any of his minions on.

Or he has a set of items, all cursed, that need to be used to open a great treasure.

[Cozzer]

Hmm... honestly, the torture option doesn't sound very interesting, since the players can't do anything until something comes up to save them. I mean, if they can escape on their own from the main villain's super fortress, it's not much less ridiculous than them winning agains all the villain's soldier. So it would be, "well, your characters spend X time being tortured until thing Y happens and they have a chance to escape". Meh.

(Unless you intend to spend a significant amount of real-life time to describe the characters being tortured, asking "what do you do" while the players are powerless to change things and everything they try fails, which in my opinion is the worst thing a GM can do ever)

I think sending the PCs on a dangerous mission or to deal with another threat(after using some magic/blackmail to ensure they can't betray the warlady) would be the best option, but it depends on what the villain's situation is. What's the warlady's goal? What are the things she must overcome? Are the PCs strong enough that it would be valuable for her to use them rather than just dispose of them? Adjust the villain's circumstances so that her decision makes sense in-universe, and anything can be ok.

This way, the characters have a mission AND they must find a way to double-cross the villain before the mission is over, or she will dispose of them for reals.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Disposable minions. The warlord has something he needs (relatively) high-level minions to do but can't spare any of her own men, so she holds two of the party hostage, and demands the other two get it done and get it done quick if they want their friends to be -mostly- in one piece when they get back. (You can decide if she's as good as her word or if she's just going to murder them all once they've outlived their usefulness should they comply and fail to escape in the interim).

[Cozzer]

I advise against the "taking two of the party hostage" part, since it means telling to two players "hey guys, you don't need to show up for the next X sessions, also your characters might die depending on the actions of the other players and you don't get a say in this". The villain could force the characters at swordpoint to accept a magical contract (or something like that) that gives her the power to kill them by snapping her fingers. Now the characters have to do missions and find a way to break the contract without dying, all without giving the villain any reason to just snap her fingers and kill them.

[Flickerdart]

Hmm... honestly, the torture option doesn't sound very interesting, since the players can't do anything until something comes up to save them. I mean, if they can escape on their own from the main villain's super fortress, it's not much less ridiculous than them winning agains all the villain's soldier. So it would be, "well, your characters spend X time being tortured until thing Y happens and they have a chance to escape". Meh.

Why are they in the superfortress? A warlord can be in lots of places. On the campaign trail, it might be that a wooden picket is all you've got.

And sneaking through a fortress is a lot easier than fighting lots and lots of people. Supermax prisons have been escaped by guys who wouldn't last a second in a fight with a single guard, never mind the whole place.

[BlacKnight]

Using the PCs as minions is indeed the most interesting option, but I don't know how to put it in the game in a not ridicolous way.
The problem is that the PCs are the perfect definition of murderhobos, so controlling them is basically impossible.
A magical contract could solve this issue, but it would open a can of worms: why isn't every evil lord using such contracts on his minions ? In this particular case the party has already captured and interrogated multiple minions and some of them had betrayed their boss for the PCs ! They even knew that some of the warlady liutenants could have betrayed her (but they didn't try to contact them because... I don't know)
The contract has to be something that is not suitable for long hires.
Maybe if it operates like a time bomb it could works. A long delay poison could serve the purpose.

Although it's not really necessary, given that a series of natural disasters is going to hit the area and the warlady doesn't know it, so the escape option is not far fetched (the reason they not waited for such disasters before attacking is beyond me).

[Garimeth]

Using the PCs as minions is indeed the most interesting option, but I don't know how to put it in the game in a not ridicolous way.
The problem is that the PCs are the perfect definition of murderhobos, so controlling them is basically impossible.
A magical contract could solve this issue, but it would open a can of worms: why isn't every evil lord using such contracts on his minions ? In this particular case the party has already captured and interrogated multiple minions and some of them had betrayed their boss for the PCs ! They even knew that some of the warlady liutenants could have betrayed her (but they didn't try to contact them because... I don't know)
The contract has to be something that is not suitable for long hires.
Maybe if it operates like a time bomb it could works. A long delay poison could serve the purpose.

Although it's not really necessary, given that a series of natural disasters is going to hit the area and the warlady doesn't know it, so the escape option is not far fetched (the reason they not waited for such disasters before attacking is beyond me).

So serious question: why not just kill them?

I assumed it was because a party wipe could kill the campaign, but that's rarely the case with murderhobo groups, so why not just kill them? They made a bad decision, so let them suffer the consequences.

[Flickerdart]

A magical contract could solve this issue, but it would open a can of worms: why isn't every evil lord using such contracts on his minions ? In this particular case the party has already captured and interrogated multiple minions and some of them had betrayed their boss for the PCs ! They even knew that some of the warlady liutenants could have betrayed her (but they didn't try to contact them because... I don't know)

How about this - the magical contract must be specific and binds both parties.

Specific: "Serve me" is too vague to be enforceable, and also sucks for your story, since the PCs now become pawns of the bad guy. Stacking legalese just gives you a "partial fulfillment" result. This contract can only do specific things, and the vaguer the instructions, the less binding. This is useless for minions, because you want minions serving you in many different ways. Alternatively, the minions are under the contract, but because of its vagueness, they can betray the warlord in some ways.

Bilateral: Any evil lord worth their salt promises much and delivers little. That's just good economic sense! While the PCs may be willing to sign under duress (your reward - your pathetic lives!) that doesn't really work when recruiting the general population. The villain must promise his minions something, be it wealth, power, or revenge, and failing to deliver could lead to magically enforced suffering.

[Nero24200]

Weird idea - kill them anyway.

The villain wants to enact some dark ritual which involves several sacrifices. The details for this ritual are taken from an old tomb and condemn the sacrificed souls to a demi-plan similar to hell, but more suited to the villain's desires. Maybe the souls grant him power while present there.

A miss-translation of the older texts causes a strange side-effect in that the PC's retain their levels, skills and any equipment they had when killed whilst in this plane, allowing them a chance to escape.

Maybe for added effect have them find their old, murdered corpses when they return the material plane.

Edit: Cleared some spelling mistakes.

[Flickerdart]

Weird idea - kill them anyway.

The villain wants to enact some dark ritual which involves several sacrifices. The details for this ritual are taken from an old tomb and condemn the sacrificed souls to a demi-plan similar to hell, but more suited to the villain's desires. Maybe the souls grant him power while present there.

A miss-translation of the older texts causes a strange side-effect in that the PC's retain their levels, skills and any equipment they had when killed whilst in this plane, allowing them a chance to escape.

Maybe for added effect have them find their old, murdered corpses when they return the material plane.

Edit: Cleared some spelling mistakes.

Or the mistranslation are that the PCs are not killed - instead of their souls being sent to the Hells, their bodies are too! Something like the backlash on the Fires of Dis incantation.

Now they have to break out of Cania or whatever.

[Efrate]

You described them as murderhobos, with murderhobo behavior, and you want to save them? I'd say nope. Kill them. If they are your normal generic murderhobos they have little value to anyone but themselves, barring maybe someone who wants murderhobos to murderhobo something away from them. And your warlord doesn't seem to have this issue if he beat them in the first place. They die. They chose their path, these are the consequences.

As a DM I am a big fan of consequence of actions. I give leeway to new players, early levels, etc., but if they have been doing nothing to minimize their risk, then wake up call. They do not exist in a vacuum if you want any verisimilitude in your setting. Let the dice fall as they will. They die. Roll up something new, either continuing the campaign or starting something different. You can't hand hold players forever.

[BlacKnight]

In defense of the PCs I have to say that it was a fluid situation: they were making a mess in the area, freeing and arming slaves, killing guards and sabotaging stuff. I'm not sure if they noticed the moment they went to further. What is really strange is that in their previous confrontation with the villain they escaped almost immediately. But this reminds me that they have an item that the warlady would like to have.

So my plan could be something like this:
1) They are defeated. Maybe some of them die. It happens often, what I want to avoid is a TPK.
2) When they are conducted in the presence of the warlady I use the "do you know her ?" line from Dungeon World. I always wanted to use it, but I never had the opportunity.
3) The McGuffin is cited and they agree to deliver it for their lives.
4) If points 2 and 3 both take place a cooperation is not to be excluded. Otherwise they should at least gain time for a chance to escape.
5) If points 2 and 3 fail both they are tortured. They take some penalties, but they still have a chance to escape.
6) If they fail to escape, or make a mess when they have to deliver the McGuffin or whatever they are sacrified in a dark ritual. Escaping from hell seems interesting.

[Jay R]

In defense of the PCs I have to say that it was a fluid situation: they were making a mess in the area, freeing and arming slaves, ...

Oh. In that case, they should be saved by an army of freed slaves.

Action have consequences. Even good actions.

[Garimeth]

Oh. In that case, they should be saved by an army of freed slaves.

Action have consequences. Even good actions.

I agree. If I were DMing I would either have the freed slaves show up mid fight (when the first PC drops) to cover their escape and give them a chance to retrieve their wounded if they are quick/clever

OR

I would have the slaves freed them after they get captured. Maybe the warlord wants to question them later in case they know anything useful or thinks they might be working for a rival. Let's you give some plot exposition if that's needed. Alternatively you could have the slaves give some plot points they learned while in captivity.

[FreddyNoNose]

Yeah, this. I just feel like the GM should just let me lose at some point instead continuing to bend over backwards forever.

Though I feel the issue goes deeper than that. GMs get a lot of pressure to have PCs survive no matter what. Part of that is that players have been encouraged to place huge emotional investments and extremely detailed backstory into each character they make, meaning that whole gaming groups are quite demoralized by any PC death at all.

That, along with campaigns that are tightly tailored to individual PCs, makes it emotionally very difficult to keep playing despite that, which is one reason why we see GMs throwing out whole campaigns after a single party wipe.

I tell people to not make background as it will be explored. Too many people try to pull BS with their background that I just won't approve of. Plus, if you die in the first game you will have wasted your time. Plus they don't know my world so they will have problems matching it.

It depends on how you define a campaign. I think of it as my multiverse. One group is dead another one appears and it may have nothing to do with the first one. It is like when you run multiple groups in the game, it is a campaign but it is also the world. They are not on the same page. It isn't like a military campaign to take out the enemy.

If the PCs all die in the hill giant steading and roll new characters, they are not forced by me to continue that. Suppose they go off to a place far from it, it is still the same campaign.

[Herobizkit]

The PC's are used as guinea pigs to test the villain's new Portal ritual. Gotta make sure it works. Also, make sure you come back... hate to crush your village/parents/whatever while you're gone.

[MadBear]

Are any of the previous PC any more to blame for what happened then any other? If so, maybe pull a Negan from walking dead and just kill a few of the PC's in front of their friends. Then humiliate the others by taking all their gear, breaking the stuff that the big bad won't use right in front of them (throwing rations down the drain, breaking their trinkets, and then send them on their way penniless to tell the world of the big bad's "Mercy".

Have the rest roll new characters, and now you have a villain that the entire group will really really hate. (bonus, have the new PC's be one of the former slaves who are finally freed by the PC's earlier actions)

[Hawkstar]

My favorite option in this sort of situation is always "Kill them, then forget to double-tap." They wake up a few hours or days later in a half-assed mass grave, and can get back on with the adventure. Meanwhile - the warlord's managed to succeed in several plans along the way.

[Kane0]

Oh she does kill them. But thats not all.

As soon as theyre dead she brings them over to her/her priest's/her necromancer's altar/workbench and brings them back.
Congratulations, PCs! You are now powerful undead minions in the service of the warlordess/her best caster henchman, and your first task is to reveal all you know/remember about her enemies. Then after that your next job is to replace those you killed, fighting against your previous allies or being deployed as a special squad if elites to foil your old allies' plans.
The only way out if this is if the one that controls you dies, leaving you a free willed undead...

Edit: If you're feeling particularly... merciful... You can leave them on the brink of death and geas them instead of bringing them back as undead for the same effect. Remember to allow the occasional save or some other way out to keep things interesting.

[Bohandas]

*he needs someone to test a new spell or magic item on.

*He is going to force the wizard to build something for him

*slaves for the cinnabar mines

*out of spells

*easier to make them walk to where he plans to dispose of their corpses

*public torture to make an example of them

*the warlord wants to kill the cleric near the temple of the warlord's deity so that he might be shielded from the prying eyes of the cleric's deity

*the warlord follows the same deity as the party's cleric

[Segev]

Thank you everybody !
The torture option seems like the best option. "How do you dare to challenge me ?!" Classic, but effective.
But then I read this:



I haven't said it before, but the warlord is a woman (that makes her a "warlady" ???), so the option of having her being an ex-wife or ex-girlfriend or whatever sounds like a lot of fun.
Well maybe not for the ex-husband
I would talk about this with the players, if nobody takes the privilege (and the burden) of the role I will switch to the good, old torture...

Even if she's not the ex-girlfriend of one of the PCs, you could always go for "bathe him and send him to my chambers." She keeps the others - the ones she's NOT interested in as conquests of a less martial nature - as hostages to the compliance of her new toys.

[Flickerdart]

Even if she's not the ex-girlfriend of one of the PCs, you could always go for "bathe him and send him to my chambers." She keeps the others - the ones she's NOT interested in as conquests of a less martial nature - as hostages to the compliance of her new toys.

You could also make it a not-sex thing - there are plenty of examples of conquerors keeping learned or skilled people captive to enjoy their knowledge/performances/fruits of their labour. If one of the PCs can crack a joke, the warlord may keep 'em around for the entertainment value.

[Inevitability]

You could also make it a not-sex thing - there are plenty of examples of conquerors keeping learned or skilled people captive to enjoy their knowledge/performances/fruits of their labour. If one of the PCs can crack a joke, the warlord may keep 'em around for the entertainment value.

Now I'm imagining a caster somehow kept from casting high-level spells whose only purpose is providing Prestidigitation-fueled entertainment.

Of course, any self-respecting PC would be able to escape with a few Prestidigitations.

[RazorChain]

Simple, she wins.

The characters that survive get enslaved like the other slaves she has. The characters get sent to the mines, chained up and 1 year later when they finally get a chance to escape the warlady has achieved her evil plans.

[Lemmy]

She could intend to use them in some sort of experiment... Resident Evil style!

The PCs therefore have a few days in prison to plan an enact their escape while the last batch of test subjects is being processed. This gives the villain a good excuse to keep them around and the players a chance to act... They might lose some or all of their gear, though...