Dragon Ball Super

[Lord Raziere]

Eeeeeeeh, only 28 livable planets is an ENTIRELY different kettle of fish, Callos. Dragon Ball has never been that good about its sci-fi parts. back during Z, it was implied that there was only four Galaxies, Toriyama has a really bad sense of scale when it comes to these things, especially given the fact the amount of aliens he has shown, Freeza's empire was said to rule about 70 something planets so MORE than are supposedly inhabitable, so why he would rule a bunch of planets that no one lived on is stupid, while Freeza himself has claimed to be anything from the Emperor of the Galaxy all the way to Emperor of the Universe, Whis once talking about getting lunch from a completely separate galaxy, I would suggest taking probably every single sci-fi claim in Dragon Ball relating to scale at all with a grain of salt, if not a molecule of sodium chloride.

[Anteros]

Is Beerus trigger happy? I used to think so, but now I think it's just a front he puts up. When he was threatening to destroy the Earth it seemed more like a threat to motivate Goku than a legitimate desire to blow things up over a lack of pudding.

[Lord Raziere]

Is Beerus trigger happy? I used to think so, but now I think it's just a front he puts up. When he was threatening to destroy the Earth it seemed more like a threat to motivate Goku than a legitimate desire to blow things up over a lack of pudding.

He destroyed a half a planet over their food being too spicy, destroyed a primitive planet over some barbarian attacking him, destroyed another planet for losing at a videogame.....

that and current canon Beerus is undergoing character development. its subtle, but he is basically Super's Vegeta, and Vegeta is Super's Piccolo now.

[Anteros]

I just always got the impression that those planets were slated for destruction anyway.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Eeeeeeeh, only 28 livable planets is an ENTIRELY different kettle of fish, Callos. Dragon Ball has never been that good about its sci-fi parts. back during Z, it was implied that there was only four Galaxies, Toriyama has a really bad sense of scale when it comes to these things, especially given the fact the amount of aliens he has shown, Freeza's empire was said to rule about 70 something planets so MORE than are supposedly inhabitable, so why he would rule a bunch of planets that no one lived on is stupid, while Freeza himself has claimed to be anything from the Emperor of the Galaxy all the way to Emperor of the Universe, Whis once talking about getting lunch from a completely separate galaxy, I would suggest taking probably every single sci-fi claim in Dragon Ball relating to scale at all with a grain of salt, if not a molecule of sodium chloride.

I'm pretty sure that its 28 inhabited planets, not livable ones, but there is a fine degree of separation between a bad sense of scale and establishing your own scale. Toriyama went the later route but was inconsistent (as he is with a few things) in its application. There are only four galaxies cause Dragon Ball's definition of galaxy isn't the same as ours cause a universe in Dragon Ball isn't the same as ours either what with being set-sized areas and not infinitely expanding as the most basic difference.

That said, there is plenty of reason to rule a planet that no one or very few people live on. It could occupy an important strategic section of space, possesses rare materials or minerals, perhaps its used as a parking lot like how Freeze considered doing to Namek after he was done with it. A planet can be used and utilized without being 'inhabited' which implies a significant number of people not only work there but live there on a consistent basis. Think back to Jaco taking the Watagashi in and he stops off on that small planet for ramen. Sure there's a noodle shop there but, and this is assuming there's nothing else aside from the ramen stand, it would be a big stretch to call the planet 'inhabited'.

At the end of the day, Dragon Ball Z isn't sci-fi anymore than Star Wars is. Sure there's aliens, cyborgs, time travel, and spaceships but its not sci-fi and shouldn't be thought of as such.

I just always got the impression that those planets were slated for destruction anyway.

I don't think the one he blew in half was slated for destruction, didn't he say he was stopping by to visit it because he heard how good the food was?

And even if it was slated for destruction Beerus still is pretty bad at his job cause he left half a planet sitting out there.

[Lord Raziere]

Callos, Toriyama pretty much makes things up as he goes along, I don't think he planned that far ahead or did it well thought out as your suggesting. Your making the common nerd mistake of thinking everyone thinks everything as through as thoroughly as yourself. Dragon Ball is pretty much the exact opposite of a well-thought well built world, its an inconsistent chaotic mess that is liquid-like in its rules and subject to the whims of an gag-rooted author who has canonically put an avatar of himself within it to make jokes who he has confirmed is stronger than Zeno. The only reason why the characters aren't breaking the fourth wall is because that would probably be Dragon Balls version of Nirvana.

[Jayngfet]

Eeeeeeeh, only 28 livable planets is an ENTIRELY different kettle of fish, Callos. Dragon Ball has never been that good about its sci-fi parts. back during Z, it was implied that there was only four Galaxies, Toriyama has a really bad sense of scale when it comes to these things, especially given the fact the amount of aliens he has shown, Freeza's empire was said to rule about 70 something planets so MORE than are supposedly inhabitable, so why he would rule a bunch of planets that no one lived on is stupid, while Freeza himself has claimed to be anything from the Emperor of the Galaxy all the way to Emperor of the Universe, Whis once talking about getting lunch from a completely separate galaxy, I would suggest taking probably every single sci-fi claim in Dragon Ball relating to scale at all with a grain of salt, if not a molecule of sodium chloride.

A lot of Frieza's background goons are just repeats of stock creatures he likes to do. You can see similar dudes walking around on earth in some instances like the generic fishmen who come back as generic Frieza grunts. Given how many creatures there are on earth it's possible that there's a bunch of other planets just full of species.

Remember Namek is not indicative of what a normal planet looks like. It's something a very limited and controlled population spent centuries trying to revive. It's population is so small if you made them all live together the settlement wouldn't show up on any maps. I'd err on the side of average populated worlds having more people on them.

[Anteros]

I don't think the one he blew in half was slated for destruction, didn't he say he was stopping by to visit it because he heard how good the food was?

And even if it was slated for destruction Beerus still is pretty bad at his job cause he left half a planet sitting out there.

My interpretation was that he was going to destroy it anyway, but decided to give them a chance to change his mind. I believe he made an offhand comment to that affect, but I could be wrong.

Half a planet is pretty destroyed. The other half isn't going to be livable.

[jindra34]

On the planets thing... I chalk that up to the massive collateral damage that Goku and Beerus's fight caused. They frigging risked destroying everything in the universe, and caused shockwaves felt in the otherworld. Thats going to do a number on a lot of stuff. Then again it doesn't change much about Beerus and Shin not being good caretakers.

[Present 2.0]

Half a planet is pretty destroyed. The other half isn't going to be livable.

I know, that this isn't a good Argument, but I think in the physics-bending somewhat cartoony rules of Dragonball, a Half-Planet is still Liveable. Just like a blown up Moon isn't changing much about the Earth.

[Rater202]

I know, that this isn't a good Argument, but I think in the physics-bending somewhat cartoony rules of Dragonball, a Half-Planet is still Liveable. Just like a blown up Moon isn't changing much about the Earth.

Elder Kai says "number and a half" planets have been destroyed by Beerus early in the first arc. If destroying only half functionally destroyed the planet in DB logic...

[Kato]

So, I've been thinking whether or not you actually could make a decent DB live action... I mean, we clearly have the ability to make proper cgi as some fan films have shown. But can we actually find actors to portray the characters properly? Like... would you find a child to portray kid Goku or Gohan? Or young Bulma?! Would you start out with DB or just skip it to do DBZ? Obviously all other attempts at anime adaptions (I'm aware of) have failed. But... would it be possible?

[The Troubadour]

Off the top of my head, the "Rurouni Kenshin" and "Lone Wolf and Cub" adaptations ranged from very good to excellent.

[Callos_DeTerran]

So, I've been thinking whether or not you actually could make a decent DB live action... I mean, we clearly have the ability to make proper cgi as some fan films have shown. But can we actually find actors to portray the characters properly? Like... would you find a child to portray kid Goku or Gohan? Or young Bulma?! Would you start out with DB or just skip it to do DBZ? Obviously all other attempts at anime adaptions (I'm aware of) have failed. But... would it be possible?

I can't weigh in on all of this, but personally I'd start with Dragon Ball.

If you just jump into Dragon Ball Z, it makes less sense and some of the early big moments lose a lot of impact like Goku being an alien, Piccolo's turn to a good guy, and why Nappa killing Piccolo was a mistake.

Callos, Toriyama pretty much makes things up as he goes along, I don't think he planned that far ahead or did it well thought out as your suggesting. Your making the common nerd mistake of thinking everyone thinks everything as through as thoroughly as yourself. Dragon Ball is pretty much the exact opposite of a well-thought well built world, its an inconsistent chaotic mess that is liquid-like in its rules and subject to the whims of an gag-rooted author who has canonically put an avatar of himself within it to make jokes who he has confirmed is stronger than Zeno. The only reason why the characters aren't breaking the fourth wall is because that would probably be Dragon Balls version of Nirvana.

I'm not making a mistake in anything. The information I gave about the four galaxies compromising a non-infinite universe isn't me talking out of my ass, that's just the world of Dragon Ball.

The stuff for inhabited vs livable? That's only half me talking out my ass cause we see plenty of planets but only like...Namek, the one close to Namek that had life, Vegeta, and...no, that's about it for planets people are seen living on. There's evidence shown and it ain't like I'm burning a ton of brain power to come to the conclusions that I'm coming to, they're fairly obvious.

The day Dragon Ball Z consistently breaks the fourth wall is the day I stop watching it though.

[Anteros]

I think you'd have to start with Z for a movie. Dragonball is remarkably silly and I don't think it would work as live action without making so many changes that there's no point.

I don't really think it's possible to make a great live action Dragonball movie anyway though. The source material for most anime just doesn't lend itself well to real life depictions. The few adaptations that have been decent were much more grounded than something like Dragonball.

I'm not making a mistake in anything. The information I gave about the four galaxies compromising a non-infinite universe isn't me talking out of my ass, that's just the world of Dragon Ball.

Where'd you get this information? I don't remember that being stated.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Where'd you get this information? I don't remember that being stated.

Which part? The four galaxies in a universe (or at least Universe 7) has been around since the end of the Cell Games with the Otherworld Tournament and mentions in the Buu Saga. Now are Dragon Ball galaxies the same sizes as ours? I have no idea.

The universe being a set size was either in an interview with Toriyama or one of the big databooks where he described Universe Seven as a big glass sphere with the mortal world on the 'top' of the sphere and the bottom either being composed of HFIL/Other world or the Demon Realm with HFIL/Other world sandwiched between the two.

Either way you can find a map easy.

Spoiler: Said Map

Show

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/8/8b/DBUniverse_%28SuperExcitingGuides%29.png/revision/latest?cb=20110717111443

Apologies, posting from my phone and don't know the link or image tag off by heart.

And it ain't infinite. How big is it? I have no idea, but it makes sense if all the universes can be reached by the others so long as you have the right vehicle and all exist in the big void the Tournament of Power is going to be held in.

[Anteros]

I still don't see why you'd assume that their universes function any differently from our own. Infinite doesn't mean all-encompassing. For example, there are infinite numbers between 2 and 3, but none of them is 4.

It's entirely possible for multiple infinitely expanding things to co-exist and yet never meet if they exist in an even larger infinite space. Just like how in real life scientists think the actual universe we live in is expanding.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I still don't see why you'd assume that their universes function any differently from our own. Infinite doesn't mean all-encompassing. For example, there are infinite numbers between 2 and 3, but none of them is 4.

It's entirely possible for multiple infinitely expanding things to co-exist and yet never meet if they exist in an even larger infinite space. Just like how in real life scientists think the actual universe we live in is expanding.

The not functioning as our own isn't me assuming, that was from Toriyama saying as such.

You aren't wrong on the ability of multiple infinite objects able to exist at once in an even larger infinite space. Its just all evidence points to the Universes in Dragon Ball NOT being infinite rather than the opposite.

[Lord Raziere]

Spoiler: Episode 95

Show

1. heres proof that all the other Destruction Gods can walk the walk just as much as Beerus.

2. Saiyan Pride being the eventual classic downfall of them all, check

3. ok so destruction Gods can apparently use telekinesis and maybe creation magic as well? weird

4. and Frost and Freeza decide to team up and and make their own plans. Great, this will go swimmingly for everyone involved.

5. Goku, have you not learned yet? THIS IS NOT A FRIENDLY COMPETITION. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO NOT JUST DIE, BUT BE ERASED FOREVER. ALL THESE OPPONENTS YOUR FACING, YOU WILL NEVER FACE AGAIN IF ZENO IS TELLING THE TRUTH. ASSUMING YOU LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO REGRET THIS.

6. we finally see Jiren. He surprises Goku by being Already Behind Him then dodges something by Standing Still. Yeah. Your screwed Goku, a standing still dodge is one of those kung-fu feats of Zen that means the guy is so in harmony with the world around him that Goku might as well be fighting the universe itself

7. and lastly but leastly- LOOK AT ALL THE CHARACTERS!! 80 Unique designs in one arena, natural winged flyers only flight, and man do I want to know more about lots of these characters.....just....so many potential races for a new OC....

8. and now....the tournament finally begins......lets get this crazy train rolling.

[Anteros]

The not functioning as our own isn't me assuming, that was from Toriyama saying as such.

You aren't wrong on the ability of multiple infinite objects able to exist at once in an even larger infinite space. Its just all evidence points to the Universes in Dragon Ball NOT being infinite rather than the opposite.

Fair enough. I just haven't seen that interview I guess.

[igordragonian]

Spoiler: Episode 95

Show

1. heres proof that all the other Destruction Gods can walk the walk just as much as Beerus.

2. Saiyan Pride being the eventual classic downfall of them all, check

3. ok so destruction Gods can apparently use telekinesis and maybe creation magic as well? weird

4. and Frost and Freeza decide to team up and and make their own plans. Great, this will go swimmingly for everyone involved.

5. Goku, have you not learned yet? THIS IS NOT A FRIENDLY COMPETITION. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO NOT JUST DIE, BUT BE ERASED FOREVER. ALL THESE OPPONENTS YOUR FACING, YOU WILL NEVER FACE AGAIN IF ZENO IS TELLING THE TRUTH. ASSUMING YOU LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO REGRET THIS.

6. we finally see Jiren. He surprises Goku by being Already Behind Him then dodges something by Standing Still. Yeah. Your screwed Goku, a standing still dodge is one of those kung-fu feats of Zen that means the guy is so in harmony with the world around him that Goku might as well be fighting the universe itself

7. and lastly but leastly- LOOK AT ALL THE CHARACTERS!! 80 Unique designs in one arena, natural winged flyers only flight, and man do I want to know more about lots of these characters.....just....so many potential races for a new OC....

8. and now....the tournament finally begins......lets get this crazy train rolling.

Spoiler

Show

1. I really enjoyed their fight. I am surprised, they haven't created an arena for destruction gods at this whatever dimension. Beerus and Champa would use it...
and dman, those angels are friggin annoying trolls. I really hope someone will smack off their smiles from their faces.
2. yep. They really should have recruited, Goten, Trunks and Cell, if they already going stupid and strong. So... Vege, Goku and Freez, just going to get wild, and let the weaker ones, trying to survive with strategy? Nice. Really nice. Aceholes.
3. telekensis.. yep. Creation spell? Where? I have only seen them telekenting... and maybe that just the strongest ones- Beerus, never seemed to use it...
4. I have no idea, what can they do, betraying their team won't help them survive.
5. maybe Goku going to wish for all of them back to life? But yea. Goku surely has learned. He just want to annoy them more. There is no other explanation. I really won't shed a tear if Goku die or lose. ugh. But he is the protagonist.
6. hmm... did somepony mentioned observation Haki?
7. Yeah. Wow... we can say a lot of stuff about Toriyama, but he is surely worked hard on this. It's.. not disapointing.

8. my bet- everyone lose, Vegeta and Goku discovering their Super Sayian Rose form and beat everyone up. The End.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Fair enough. I just haven't seen that interview I guess.

I'll see if I can find where the interview was held. I saw the original quote in a Youtube video about this very topic but I don't think it was one of MasakoX's ones, cause that'd make it super easy to find.

[Jayngfet]

So, I've been thinking whether or not you actually could make a decent DB live action... I mean, we clearly have the ability to make proper cgi as some fan films have shown. But can we actually find actors to portray the characters properly? Like... would you find a child to portray kid Goku or Gohan? Or young Bulma?! Would you start out with DB or just skip it to do DBZ? Obviously all other attempts at anime adaptions (I'm aware of) have failed. But... would it be possible?

Speaking as a filmmaker and a CG guy you could totally do it ...to an extent.

The big problem with Dragonball aesthetics in 2017 isn't doing ki blasts or costuming main characters. All that crap has been done ten thousand and a half times. The technology being there isn't even an issue worth thinking about and the funding to do that "right" isn't an issue either if we're talking tentpole action movie.

The big problem is how the hell you're supposed to realize all of the little stylized things Toriyama does without making it uncanny. That's not really an issue with say, Goku's hair since the early drawings indicate it's meant to just be a kind of matted and unkempt style that got stylized. It is a big issue with doing things like Puar and Oolong where they're basically cute cartoon criters only meant to work in 2d or hyper stylized 3d, but making them look natural with real people without it being disturbing is an issue.

This goes double if this is a series. Those characters are young and cute in Dragonball since they're basically first graders with super powers. But by the time Super rolls around they're pushing 40 and look the same. Obviously in each film if you keep the same actors it'll be a two to three year real age difference(emphasized with makeup and cinematography), but you need to redesign it from the ground up each time since a first grader is going to be visibly different from the Oolong in his late teens when Z begins. The only reason we don't notice it is because anime tends to have conventions about changing voice actors.

[Anteros]

I'll see if I can find where the interview was held. I saw the original quote in a Youtube video about this very topic but I don't think it was one of MasakoX's ones, cause that'd make it super easy to find.

It's not that big of a deal. I'll just take your word for it. Not like it really matters.

[igordragonian]

I feel a bit stupid to mention it, and maybe Toroyana has answered it at some interview or something..
and maybe other fan thought of it....

but... I think that the skin colors of the kai mean something, and it's more than a designing decision:

Yellow kais, seems to be calm and passive.
The blue seemed to be intelegent
green- corrupted to some degree.
pink-purple seems to be balanced(?) they are giving the "right" feel for kais.

[Present 2.0]

Detective Q made a Prediction Game about the Tournament. Maybe some we could play that here and see, who gets the most Things Right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0-VffJjtpA

My only Prediction as of now is that Tien will lose pretty quick, because he got sadly the least amount of hype in the Recruitment Episodes. The only hype, that he got, was him being the only one to detect the two invisible/microscopic fighters from U4.

[Lord Raziere]

Spoiler: Episode 97

Show

and they even include Freeza in the opening. wow.

and the tournament finally begins......NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-

and of course no one's following Gohan's plan.....great.....and Roshi going for the women warriors.....wow....bad.....

aaaaannnnnd.... BEGIN!

U3's pushoff plan fails due to Hit and Basil.

meanwhile Lilibeu gets pushed off and sent to the bench. more evidence that they're not actually going to destroy the Universes if they're just going to teleport people to the benches if they fall off?

and of course, 18 fights the U11 Pride Trooper girl...

oh frack, this U10 pig man's a sumo wrestler, no wonder hes chosen for this, he probably has the msot experience with this sort of fighting!

ok those shots of 18 and Vegeta are stock, be less lazy please? they use them twice!

oh, Nink is taking Goku with him! thats a good strategy. do it orc man! your sacrifice will not be in vain! no wait it was, Goku used power through it and it was super-effective, oh well.

THAT WAS ALL ONLY ONE MINUTE!? THERE ARE 47 MINUTES LEFT!? aaaaaaaaaaw grapefruit. whelp, looks like we're in it for the long haul.

[Lleban]

Detective Q made a Prediction Game about the Tournament. Maybe some we could play that here and see, who gets the most Things Right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0-VffJjtpA

My only Prediction as of now is that Tien will lose pretty quick, because he got sadly the least amount of hype in the Recruitment Episodes. The only hype, that he got, was him being the only one to detect the two invisible/microscopic fighters from U4.

Tien prob will get taken out early....Roshi had more spotlight then Tien.

Speaking of early outs, I predict vegeta will get taken out once the climax of the tournament starts. Whether its a Toppo, Hit, or someone else I'm not sure. He's had almost as little focus as Tien, though this logic could also apply to Piccolo and 18.

[Lord Raziere]

One things for sure, if this episode is any indication, this is DEFINITELY happening in Freeza Time right now. this arc ain't going away any time soon.

[Xihirli]

I'm surprised by how little Hit is emphasized.
For a guy comfortably situated at god-tier, the Universe 6 spotlight was mostly on their saiyans not doing anything.