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Thread: Dragon Ball Super
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2017-07-19, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
We can psycho-analyze Zamasu all day long, but at the end of the day the real answer is that he did the things he did because it made for the most entertaining story.
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2017-07-20, 05:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
Re: Dragon Ball Super
I am analyzing him, because I feel he was written bad.
And I want to feel that his character and story isn't that bad...Thanks for the OOTSkage of OOTS art, Lord Raziere.
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2017-07-20, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
What are you talking about? He is a good villain, smarter and more successful than any villain before him. he isn't Yandere at all, Yandere's just outright state that they love someone and try to kill their target for not loving them back, simple as that, so I don't know where your getting that from.
I mean, he found a way to kill Goku easier than Cell, he actually wished for immortality BEFORE facing the heroes, he probably used those bodies because he was going to kill the Gods of Destruction- and all the Gods of Destruction are connected to their Kais so if Zamasu stole Beerus's body then killed Shin he would die to. He couldn't have that. He then pretty much successfully worked his way to destroying every last bit of mortal life through all the universes until it was just Earth and Trunks- after all its was the ZERO MORTALS PLAN that means every mortal, every Universe, every planet. that and I'm starting to get the impression that no one thinks using a wish to destroy thing is worth it if no one is bothering to use them to destroy anything- after all, they live in a universe where any fighter can destroy planets, and galaxies all by themselves. Why wish on a dragon for that? Its normal. What you need to wish on a dragon for are stuff you CAN'T do normally, like become immortal or switch bodies. or bring planets back.
He continued being smart by destroying the time machine, -which meant he didn't actually WANT Trunks or Goku to come back to fight him, he was just doing whatever would screw them over for his victory. and this was Goku Black so the one that had the most reason to let get them back for a good fight.
he was perfectly hate-able as all good villains are, he was an egocentric racist moral extremist whose pretensions of "justice" turned out to just be "everyone who isn't me is wrong.", which I like because a person with good intentions or thinking that they're holding themselves to virtues doesn't mean they are actually good or admirable at all. and he broke down oh-so spectacularly as all villains should, and it took large amounts of effort to defeat him, as villains should, it was all done right. and even he had one last nuke to fire that could only be responded with the protagonists own nuke. he was everything that makes a villain great- over the top, powerful, crazy, and completely determined and convinced that they are right no matter what. with of course only some minor mistakes that make defeating him possible so that there is a story. well done, just well done.
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2017-07-20, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Dragon Ball Super
Just a quick correction, here. Frollo did all that because he was conflicted about his boner, and had the maturity of an actual toddler. "I don't understand this or my feelings about it! SOCIETY MUST CRUMBLE FOR THIS!" There was no "love" involved, only a simple bout of infatuation which, if he had simply waited out instead of acting upon it immediately, would most likely have passed rather quickly.
Oh, please let's don't. Not again.I do not think the way you think. If you try to apply your own mindset to the things I say, there will be miscommunications. If something I say seems odd to you or feels like it's missing steps, ask for clarification. I'm not some unreasonable, unknowable entity beyond your mortal comprehension, I'm just autistic and have memory problems.
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2017-07-20, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
Re: Dragon Ball Super
Raziere. Well. That an intresting point of view.
To me he is mostly disapointment.
Zamasu started intresting, made me think. Honsetly I could even relate to wanting to kill all mortals, because they are hopelessly disgusting.
It also excited me, because it touched subjects I touched with an Oc villian I have devolped. So yes. It COULD have been awesome.
He really had a potential. But he revreted to a giggling B rated villian.
Black Goku just made me WTF and in the bad way of WTF.
The SDB can just... delete all mortals. But fine, this would ruin the story. I'll let go of that. There are stronger mortal fighters in the multiverse.
I still don't get why would it take him so much time to kill the earthlings.
But mostly his Muhahah made him look moron.
At least Pilaff is funny.
As for the arc, Goku and Vegeta learned nothing, didn't came up with nothing but this tiring fusion...
I would expect that at least Trunks would go Super Sayian Blue, or anything... just anything, that will show the heroes's improvment, which yes- it's an important part of any DB arc.
I started the arc with squeals of fangirl and fanboy combined, and ended it with.
"Meh".
It was "Meh" from the painful kind. So I came up with this theory... well. fine. He is not a classic yandere.
What I meant, that he feel something strong toward Goku- something stronger than normal hatred. Sort of... admire? But he hate to admire him?
Because then, this arc looks a little bit less idiotic.
But that just my opinion.Last edited by igordragonian; 2017-07-20 at 02:46 PM.
Thanks for the OOTSkage of OOTS art, Lord Raziere.
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2017-07-20, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
Re: Dragon Ball Super
I liked Zamasu for his self-aware nature about some Things. The Scene, where Goku Black says to him that Goku and Vegeta aren't listening and he says basically "I know and I don't care. I just really love the sound of my own voice that much!" was one of the funniest scenes ever to me. I asked myself for a while, what Zamasu would do, if he was just alone in the Multiverse after his success and now I think, he would be perfectly happy holding long speeches to himself forever.
So I found him funny. But not really deep. His Plan for the Annihilation of Mortals was only partly based on any sense of justice and seemed to have more to do with mortals not fitting his sense of beauty?`
The Fact that even Zamasu with the hint of a motive that goes beyond him just being evil was still that Over-the-Top-Muhaha-evil makes me also doubt somewhat, that the show wants us to see the Grand Priest as evil(even though he is ca. 58,3% as evil as Zamasu). Because compared to the over-the-top-evilness of Zamasu even with his somewhat good intentions the Grand Priest acts almost too subtle evil for a villain from the same show. Makes it Sense, what I say? I feel like the show is more going for a weird "The Gods have morals we as mortals can't comprehend and therefore not accurately categorize as evil". Which would be the opposite of the Future Zamasu-Message, where Zamasu used the same reasoning and Trunks was like "Yeah, **** that!". But it wouldn't be the first Time the show has some Inconsistencies.
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2017-07-20, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
Re: Dragon Ball Super
Yeah. I get what you say.
King Kaio said that Beerus is NOT evil.
Angels are nice, but actually jerks who see even their godly peers as insects...
But Zamasu revreted to Muhahaha. and that shamefulThanks for the OOTSkage of OOTS art, Lord Raziere.
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2017-07-20, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
Have you read the manga? If not, do that, as it's a bit different then the anime. In the manga
SpoilerGoku realizes that blue is too draining to fight with, so he learns to harness the original super saiyan god state(red hair), and uses that to kick the ever loving hell out of Zamasu. In the end, it doesn't work out, but he definitely learned something about his new powers in the arc :)
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2017-07-21, 12:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
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"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
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2017-07-21, 12:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Dragon Ball Super
No, I have to agree that the end of that arc was very very bad characterization for Goku and Jeets.
Especially Vegeta. "Well, I just watched my beloved son lose everyone he cared about and his entire universe. Time to go laugh and play with my family literally 30 seconds later!" Father. Of. The. Year.
The thing is that Super wants to have it's cake and eat it too here. They want to tell a story with a gritty and dark ending...but they don't actually want there to be any consequences for it. The result is people acting wildly out of character, not reacting to situations properly, and then acting like it never happened right after the fact. It's a cluster **** of enormous proportions.
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2017-07-21, 01:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
Re: Dragon Ball Super
Starwulf- No, I actually haven't. Intresting to know. I also have heard, that excuses for Majin Buu being usesless are more acceptable...
Callos- he wasn't treated as the main hero... well, beside the Spirit Bomb-sword thingy.
Anteros- Doing Multiverse level of hunger games.. is quite cruel. Even for those, who think there are going to Ctrl Z it.... It's cruel.Thanks for the OOTSkage of OOTS art, Lord Raziere.
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2017-07-21, 04:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
But that Trunks ISN'T his son. He's the alternate universe/timeline Vegeta's son. The fact that Vegeta cares about him as much as he does is pretty impressive considering he could have just brushed him off entirely as not his son, not his problem. It may sound callous, but think about yourself in that situation. Would you show the same level of love and caring towards someone who isn't technically your child? I mean, we might(as in, us here in the real world, because we are human), but it wouldn't come immediately to us, and it probably wouldn't be on the same level as we care for our own actual kids.
Personally, I kind of view the whole thing as Vegeta taking happiness in the fact that he still has his family, that his universe is still ok, that his bulma is still alive and well, AND that he gets to keep interacting with his son who technically isn't his son. He literally just witnessed the true power of Zeno as he wiped out an entire universe as if it was nothing. The only two real responses to that are going into deep shock/depression, or celebrating the fact that YOUR loved ones/universe are still around/alive.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons to consider Vegeta and Goku as some pretty awful parents, but this particular incident isn't one of them, imo.Last edited by Starwulf; 2017-07-21 at 04:42 AM.
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2017-07-21, 04:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Dragon Ball Super
That might make sense if we hadn't just had an entire arc to drive home that Vegeta considers him his son.
And of course there's more than two ways to react. What kind of logic is that? People can react with a whole spectrum of emotions besides the two you listed.
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2017-07-21, 05:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
Ehh, those two would be the most common I would think. It's a reality-shattering(warping?) event that they witnessed, soul-shattering depression/shock or jubilation over the fact that you're still alive, both seem the most likely(says the armchair psychologist, rofl). But yeah, naturally there could/would be other ways ^^.
I still believe that out of all the reasons to list Vegeta as a ****ty parent, this particular event does not particularly rank very high on the scale.Last edited by Starwulf; 2017-07-21 at 05:49 AM.
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2017-07-21, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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2017-07-22, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
He very much was.
Trunks is the one who started the plot off.
He's the one that is trained and mentored when Black/Zamasu continue to outclass him.
Trunks is the one who learns he can't just keep running to the past whenever something goes wrong and he needs to rely on himself and the people around him.
Trunks is the one to develop both the last minute transformation and technique that are the hallmarks of the protaganist in DBZ onward.
Trunks is the only to provide a counter point to all of Merged Zamasu's monologuing about justice and the 'evil of mortals'.
Trunks has at least a hand in every single emotional moment of the arc and the majority of the awesome ones as well.
Aside from Zamasu's obsession with Goku, Trunks kicks off all the major points of the saga. He's the one who tells everyone else what is happening, he helps Goku and Vegeta to escape from the future timeline. Its Trunks performing the Mafuuba that spooks Zamasu about how dangerous mortals could truly be and prompts the final part of the arc. Wait, I forgot that its Goku that shatters Zamasu's halo and starts the corruption. So one big event that Goku has a hand in.
Trunks has the biggest emotional stake in the fight and the only personal one.
Most importantly, he deals the finishing blow to Merged Zamasu, the last version of him that the characters could really fight in the first place.
Trunks is very much the hero of the Future Trunks/Goku Black Saga.Last edited by Callos_DeTerran; 2017-07-22 at 12:09 AM.
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2017-07-22, 01:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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2017-07-22, 01:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-07-22, 01:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
Last edited by Callos_DeTerran; 2017-07-22 at 01:32 AM.
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2017-07-22, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Dragon Ball Super
Eh, the end of that arc is a terrible mess in both the anime and the manga. They're just slightly different messes. The anime probably did the Trunks arc better, but I'd favor the manga for the other arcs.
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2017-07-22, 05:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
Because it just skips Resurrection F?
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2017-07-22, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-07-22, 09:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-07-22, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
Spoiler: Check Out my Writing!
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2017-07-22, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
Episode 100
Spoilerha I knew it. There's no way they wasn't going to screw up the saiyans. So confirmed ss2 for Caulifla and even MORE of a Broly rip-off for Kale. What's interesting though is Jeets comment about Kale having the TRUE super saiyan form. Does that mean it can't be called legendary super saiyan anymore, but instead true super saiyan? Episode started cringy but mellowed out. Hit and Jiren is the fight I want to see now. Goku confirmed able to sandbag in Blue.
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2017-07-23, 12:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-07-23, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
As an aside I have to say it's incredibly satisfying to see Goku get his crap kicked in so thoroughly. No Blue saving him, no gimmicks, just a microcosm of all his problems: Picking a fight and screwing around when he shouldn't, then having it backfire when he doesn't take things seriously fast enough.
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2017-07-23, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
Re: Dragon Ball Super
SpoilerSo Kale is able to just take a blue Kamehameha. Awesome! That makes her a bit stronger than Toppo, who wasn't able to walk against Gokus blue Kamehameha.
And Hit uses his Power also to save Teammates. U6 is awesome all around. They are also the only Team now, that hasn't lost a Member. U2, U7 and U11 lost one(sad for the Yardrat). U3 lost two. U4 lost three. U10 lost five.
Maybe Caulifla tilted her head away from Kale, cause she hoped, that could awake Kale. Somewhat cruel, but propably necessary.
And Nigrisshi, U3s strongest modified Warrior, gets kicked out by freaking Cabba. Guess, we can't await much more from U3? Maybe from their Scientist? Also why isn't his lightning staff a weapon?
I wonder, if Narirama doesn't count as knocked out, because his arms are still on the stage.Last edited by Present 2.0; 2017-07-23 at 01:33 AM.
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2017-07-23, 01:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
Re: Dragon Ball Super
Episode 100:
SpoilerOverall, I enjoyed the episode. I just feel it was a little too crammed.
Don't get me wrong, seeing SSB get humbled by Kale felt satisfying even though it was really just a set-up for Jiren to demonstrate his power scale, but that's where I have my issues with this episode. They could've given Jiren screentime maybe during the next episode and focus a bit more on the destructive bits of Kale.
Out of all of that berserking...how many people were knocked out? One? We didn't even get a good clear look at that. Instead, we get a quick repaste of Zeno with the other characters mentioning that Kale might get disqualified for accidentally killing someone...when we really don't get a sense of that with what we see.
Eh, this one of the few times I would say we could've used a little bit more hyping.
Loved the Goku/Caulifla segment though.Last edited by The Unborne; 2017-07-23 at 01:58 AM.
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2017-07-23, 02:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super
Spoiler: Episode 100
Well now for the hundreth episode, and Saiyanfest 2017! *puts on SS Goku wig* I'm ready now.
ok, 17 and 18 are now bashing Krillin. but then again makes sense given the stakes.
Time Skip in 3....2....1....right on the money.
Kale getting saved by Caulifla in 5.....4......3......2......1....right on the money.
Caulifla throwing off the pig sumo in 3.....2.....1....right on the money.
HA! and there goes any hope of that Yardrat being important!
OH! Goku and Caulifla, yeah this is going exactly how you'd think this would go: Caulifla wants to learn the Blue transformation but hes all like "nah your not ready, noob." and now Caulifla's gonna be all like "kay then I'm kicking your butt anyways!"
Congratulations Caulifla! you successfully replicated Super Saiyan Grade 3 like an idiot! Future Trunks is facepalming right now and he doesn't know why! again, exactly how you'd think this would go: Caulifla tries to be super-talented but ends up rediscovering an inefficient form that doesn't work.
and then Goku demonstrates the weakness of the form then tries to teach SS2. like an idiot. again, going exactly how think you this would play out.
Prediction: so of course Caulifla then fan girls over him going SS2.....Correct.
Prediction: Goku tries to teach her...kind of but Beerus protest, but not surprising....but yep he succesffully teaches her SS2, Correct!
now they are fighting. finally, a female-male ss fight.
Prediction: Kale goes SS berserker from jealousy........Correct. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAA....CAULIFLA YOU IDIOT. WHY DID YOU LOOK AWAY.
awesome transformation scene......LET THE PAIN BEEEEEEEEEEGGIIIN!!!!!!!! KALE! UNLEASH THE FUUUUUURRRRYY!!!!!
YES! I LIKE THIS! I LOVE THIS! KALE IS KICKING GOKUS ASS!
oh no. Blue. Whelp. it was cool while it lasted Kale.
.........0_0......and she is walking through the SS Blue level Kamehameha.....slowly.......without flinching....or anything damage at all........now I'm just terrified. infinitely terrified.
yeah, she is basically unstoppable. did she just clear the board with her green blasts?
and then........comes JIREN.
Jiren one shotted the girl who was kicking SS Blue Goku's ass. Yeah. Uh. I'm uuuh......yeeaaaah.....uh....are we sure we can't find another set of universes somewhere out in the infinite void ruled by people who AREN'T jerks and have fighters who AREN'T insanely powerful? cause I feel like running now.
ok important notes.....canon LSS/SS Berserker is apparently God level.
and next episode is Pride Troopers already? *blink blink* still a little early don't you think?
but important note: Kale is not knocked out of the ring- just because you fall unconscious doesn't mean your out, just that you can get back up if you wake up. which means Kale is going to have a second surge of kicking ass.
This was a crazy episode. and so early into the tournament. yeah, now to imagine what greater craziness results from the later parts....