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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super

    Quote Originally Posted by Akisa View Post
    What I don't get about the last episode is that they made Great Saiyaman movie, and second in the tournament portion of Boo saga Gohan was shown to be the great Saiyaman.
    They used the Dragon Balls to erase everyone's memories of the Buu Saga so that Good Buu would have a fair chance. Apparently that included all the people dying and Saiyaman's secret identity being compromised.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    I am a big fan of this. Less Goku is always a good thing. And with Gohan starting training with Piccolo again, putting him up against a space alien is a good spot to put him back into the power curve so that we can see more of him on the front lines in the future. I know its always going to be Goku in the end, but this is a good step in the right direction.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super

    Since when did Dragonball Super become the next Bleach?
    Less of the main protagonist the better!

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super

    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    Since when did Dragonball Super become the next Bleach?
    Less of the main protagonist the better!
    Since Cell Saga of DBZ.
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    That and I really don't like the characterization of Goku in Super. Hes too window-licker. I personally much more preferred how he acted in GT to this. Hell, the ending of 74 is a perfect example of this to me.
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    Goku ended up falling asleep instead of watching the movie because 'he doesn't like watching fights.' Thats... not right to me. Its family indifference, and say what you want about everyone's favorite negligent father, but he at least normally pretends to care.


    At least how I see it. Less Goku could easily just be one of those weird personal things.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Maybe I'm weird but over the years as I've gotten older, I have come to understand Chi-Chi's point of view. I will fully admit when I was a kid watching DBZ I pretty much despised Chi-Chi because she kept getting in the way and trying to keep Gohan out of the action. But she has a very solid point. Goku is, essentially, an uneducated hillbilly who pretty much only knows how to beat people up. Sure, Goku is a badass when it comes to a fight but when the world isn't in danger what does he do? He sneaks off to train or slacks off working or neglects his family.

    I was always a bit upset when Gohan was set up to take up the mantle of Earth's protector only to have Goku come back and steal the spotlight. But, now, I'm glad for him. Gohan got to have a life, get an education, a job, and a family! He's grown into an actual adult while Goku continues to be, well, Goku.

    Still, it will be fun to see Gohan back in action!

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexiconjurer View Post
    Maybe I'm weird but over the years as I've gotten older, I have come to understand Chi-Chi's point of view. I will fully admit when I was a kid watching DBZ I pretty much despised Chi-Chi because she kept getting in the way and trying to keep Gohan out of the action. But she has a very solid point. Goku is, essentially, an uneducated hillbilly who pretty much only knows how to beat people up. Sure, Goku is a badass when it comes to a fight but when the world isn't in danger what does he do? He sneaks off to train or slacks off working or neglects his family.

    I was always a bit upset when Gohan was set up to take up the mantle of Earth's protector only to have Goku come back and steal the spotlight. But, now, I'm glad for him. Gohan got to have a life, get an education, a job, and a family! He's grown into an actual adult while Goku continues to be, well, Goku.

    Still, it will be fun to see Gohan back in action!
    Ironically enough, Chi Chi is being massively irresponsible when she stops her children from training. I understand not wanting your child to end up brain damaged like Goku, but if she had her way the world would have been destroyed (for good) multiple times already. Goku won't live forever, and threats won't necessarily stop popping up just because he's gone. Just ask Future Trunks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tono View Post
    That and I really don't like the characterization of Goku in Super. Hes too window-licker. I personally much more preferred how he acted in GT to this. Hell, the ending of 74 is a perfect example of this to me.
    Spoiler: Episode 74
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    Goku ended up falling asleep instead of watching the movie because 'he doesn't like watching fights.' Thats... not right to me. Its family indifference, and say what you want about everyone's favorite negligent father, but he at least normally pretends to care.


    At least how I see it. Less Goku could easily just be one of those weird personal things.
    They made him far more relateable and competent in the English dub than he was in the original. The dub turned him into a Superman type figure, while in the original Japanese he was always more of a brain damaged hillbilly. Super does take it to a ridiculous extreme though.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2017-01-15 at 04:30 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Ironically enough, Chi Chi is being massively irresponsible when she stops her children from training. I understand not wanting your child to end up brain damaged like Goku, but if she had her way the world would have been destroyed (for good) multiple times already. Goku won't live forever, and threats won't necessarily stop popping up just because he's gone. Just ask Future Trunks.
    Eh. Goku has a long time to go still, and with him and Vegeta in their eternal ****-waving contest the Earth should be pretty set up for neverending powerups for several more decades.

    I fully understand Chi-Chi not wanting her son to have to be the sucker that ends up with a life that is nothing but training and fighting and nothing else fulfilling. Especially because Gohan doesn't even LIKE fighting, he just did because he had to (we may remember Piccolo had to yell this one at Goku at one point). Well, now with Goten clearly poised to inherit most of his father's traits, what reason is there for poor Gohan to continue wasting his life getting ever more jacked forever and ever to save the world, instead of living the life he wants as a scientist and scholar and help make the world worth saving instead?
    Last edited by Drascin; 2017-01-15 at 04:38 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    Eh. Goku has a long time to go still, and with him and Vegeta in their eternal ****-waving contest the Earth should be pretty set up for neverending powerups for several more decades.

    I fully understand Chi-Chi not wanting her son to have to be the sucker that ends up with a life that is nothing but training and fighting and nothing else fulfilling. Especially because Gohan doesn't even LIKE fighting, he just did because he had to (we may remember Piccolo had to yell this one at Goku at one point). Well, now with Goten clearly poised to inherit most of his father's traits, what reason is there for poor Gohan to continue wasting his life getting ever more jacked forever and ever to save the world, instead of living the life he wants as a scientist and scholar and help make the world worth saving instead?
    Because anyone can be a scientist. Only three people on the entire planet even have the potential power to protect it while Goku is gone. It's entirely understandable that he'd rather be a scholar than a fighter, but it's also entirely irresponsible. You can't even really argue he does it for his family, because he's perfectly content to let Hercule provide for them.

    There's a middle ground anyway. Gohan was never going to end up like Goku who literally hit his head and suffered brain damage as a child. He could be a scientist and still train. Actually, it looks like the show is starting to take him in that direction.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Not to mention that (and I hate to keep going back to it but) at the end of GT doesnt he publish books about Ki control? There has to be PLENTY to study surrounding ki control and the uses thereof. As a scientist professor type I would think he would eventually get around to studying in depth all the things that hes seen. You know, time travel, FTL travel, lasers, Flying people and the ability to everything that he does. DB obviously shows that all that is way out of the norm.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Because anyone can be a scientist. Only three people on the entire planet even have the potential power to protect it while Goku is gone. It's entirely understandable that he'd rather be a scholar than a fighter, but it's also entirely irresponsible. You can't even really argue he does it for his family, because he's perfectly content to let Hercule provide for them.
    So, basically, "you are strong and therefore you must sacrifice your own happiness and fulfillment for the rest of your life in order to do what the rest of us need you to do, and we will not even thank you for it, because it's your duty". Yeah, so that's how you create supervillains. Plus, again, his own little brother clearly has a much more suitable temperament for it, and his dad is certainly going to last enough for said little brother to get up to par.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    There's a middle ground anyway. Gohan was never going to end up like Goku who literally hit his head and suffered brain damage as a child. He could be a scientist and still train. Actually, it looks like the show is starting to take him in that direction.
    Not enough to keep up. The show has been pretty clear that keeping up requires a lot of dedication, and people get left in the dust practically immediately the moment they stop training. And guess what, so does becoming a scientist - a PhD is a bunch of years of full-time dedication.

    The kind of stuff Goku does, unlike a lot of Shonens, is not all inborn power. Goku works out every day of the week without pause, and so does Vegeta, because Saiyans are mentally weird. One of Chi-Chi's biggest complaints always was that Goku was a horribly absent father because he spent like all his time training. You can't keep up that kind of regime and study up for a PhD, let alone multiple as Gohan probably has, simultaneously.

    Maybe now that he is properly set up, with his diplomas earned and his reasearch well underway, he can afford to spend time training again? Who knows. But I don't blame for looking at his options between "spend all my life muscling up only for Goku to end up being the only important person anyway" and "spend all my life doing actually fulfilling stuff and actually being with my family every now and then", and choosing the second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tono View Post
    Not to mention that (and I hate to keep going back to it but) at the end of GT doesnt he publish books about Ki control? There has to be PLENTY to study surrounding ki control and the uses thereof. As a scientist professor type I would think he would eventually get around to studying in depth all the things that hes seen. You know, time travel, FTL travel, lasers, Flying people and the ability to everything that he does. DB obviously shows that all that is way out of the norm.
    Interestingly, in the failed MMO, which was helped by Toriyama, Gohan was in fact credited as the reason why there could be so many powered Human player characters (which was a necessity because MMO) - Gohan had studied Ki thoroughly and released his findings and now anyone could learn all kinds of stuff. Now a very large chunk of humanity could use Ki, instead of it being limited to, like, Tenshinhan and Krillin.
    Last edited by Drascin; 2017-01-15 at 09:04 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    So, basically, "you are strong and therefore you must sacrifice your own happiness and fulfillment for the rest of your life in order to do what the rest of us need you to do, and we will not even thank you for it, because it's your duty". Yeah, so that's how you create supervillains. Plus, again, his own little brother clearly has a much more suitable temperament for it, and his dad is certainly going to last enough for said little brother to get up to par.



    Not enough to keep up. The show has been pretty clear that keeping up requires a lot of dedication, and people get left in the dust practically immediately the moment they stop training. And guess what, so does becoming a scientist - a PhD is a bunch of years of full-time dedication.

    The kind of stuff Goku does, unlike a lot of Shonens, is not all inborn power. Goku works out every day of the week without pause, and so does Vegeta, because Saiyans are mentally weird. One of Chi-Chi's biggest complaints always was that Goku was a horribly absent father because he spent like all his time training. You can't keep up that kind of regime and study up for a PhD, let alone multiple as Gohan probably has, simultaneously.

    Maybe now that he is properly set up, with his diplomas earned and his reasearch well underway, he can afford to spend time training again? Who knows. But I don't blame for looking at his options between "spend all my life muscling up only for Goku to end up being the only important person anyway" and "spend all my life doing actually fulfilling stuff and actually being with my family every now and then", and choosing the second.


    You're twisting my words. I never said he had to train against his will. I said he's irresponsible for not training. He should be mature enough to realize that he has responsibilities. I also don't know why you keep bringing up Goten. Goten hasn't shown anywhere near Gohan's aptitude. Gohan is supposed to be something like 100 times stronger than him.

    The second part of your statement makes no sense. He doesn't know he's an anime character. He doesn't know Goku will always be the main character. What he does know is that he's almost gotten everyone he loves killed at least twice due to slacking off. (Dabura/Buu and Golden Freeza)

    I can understand not wanting to be a fighter, but ignoring his responsibilities and putting everyone around him at risk in the hopes someone else can take care of it is irresponsible no matter what he personally wants in life.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2017-01-15 at 10:24 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I also don't know why you keep bringing up Goten. Goten hasn't shown anywhere near Gohan's aptitude. Gohan is supposed to be something like 100 times stronger than him.
    Not only that, but Goten is also a slacker, much like present!Trunks.

    What he does know is that he's almost gotten everyone he loves killed at least twice due to slacking off. (Dabura/Buu and Golden Freeza)
    To be fair, it was entirely reasonable to assume he would never have to fight again, or at least never have to fight at a level above Freeza's original power.
    That said, Gohan has already stated he acknowledges he has to be strong enough to defend his loved ones if another enemy appears. It's not unreasonable to assume he can conciliate both life paths, that of a scholar and that of a warrior, even if it will be difficult to do so (a.k.a. the classic Spider-Man problem).

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tono View Post
    Not to mention that (and I hate to keep going back to it but) at the end of GT doesnt he publish books about Ki control? There has to be PLENTY to study surrounding ki control and the uses thereof. As a scientist professor type I would think he would eventually get around to studying in depth all the things that hes seen. You know, time travel, FTL travel, lasers, Flying people and the ability to everything that he does. DB obviously shows that all that is way out of the norm.
    That wasn't GT. That was the backstory of Online, which ignored GT and which Toriyama did designs and had creative control over.

    Interestingly enough, if we take Mr. Satan's comments about wanting Pan to train and become the heir to Satan Style martial arts to indicate that this will happen, we may well be heading towards the Online Timeline becuase in Online's backstory Pan was a master martial artist who took over Mr. Satan's Dojo at the age of 16.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    You're twisting my words. I never said he had to train against his will. I said he's irresponsible for not training. He should be mature enough to realize that he has responsibilities.
    I'm twisting nothing. I'm just saying things in less noble-sounding words. Gohan's "responsibility" was to spend the rest of his life doing something of no value, enjoyment, or fulfillment to himself, just in case another psycho from space showed up. And that sucks and I can entirely understand that the second it looked like someone else could hold the fort he jumped the **** out and only reluctantly jumped back in when it became absolutely necessary (by which point, of course, he was out of practice and get his behind summarily kicked).

    Goku can find happiness in it because Goku has the brains of a pea and most importantly he adores fighting, so for him it's basically an awesome hobby. For Gohan it would be a dreary job. A job he wouldn't have chosen, he wouldn't have liked, and which he wouldn't even get paid for on top of everything. I don't know about you, but I know I wouldn't last years doing a thing I didn't enjoy for no personal advantage at all, just on the chance that one day in the future it would prove absolutely essential. Six months at the outside.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I also don't know why you keep bringing up Goten. Goten hasn't shown anywhere near Gohan's aptitude. Gohan is supposed to be something like 100 times stronger than him.
    Because he's supposed to be pretty good anyway, and Goten/Trunks combo should have been more than enough to defend the Earth from anything that is not ridiculous escalation. I mean, Gotenks had a similar-to-better showing against Buu than Mystic Gohan did, and they were like bloody eight or something like that. By the time they were teenagers it could be expected they could take over the business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    The second part of your statement makes no sense. He doesn't know he's an anime character. He doesn't know Goku will always be the main character. What he does know is that he's almost gotten everyone he loves killed at least twice due to slacking off. (Dabura/Buu and Golden Freeza)
    Basic pattern recognition is a thing. Remember all the times his supposed hidden great potential mostly meant he got a hit in before getting kicked? Or that time where he was explicitly said to be the strongest man on Earth and built up only to be punked by Buu inside of five minutes? I mean, seeing his track record, is it really that weird that Gohan might have the Krillin realization that hey, wait a minute, I am never actually succeeding at protecting anyone or managing to do anything of note, perhaps it's not actually worth it to spend the rest of my life training my ass off in increasingly demanding and harsh training regimes just so I can fail to save the day anyway? Because to me that sounds like something that a person that doesn't want to do this anyway would come to, eventually.
    Last edited by Drascin; 2017-01-15 at 12:15 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super

    Only three? I count Vegeta, Goten, Trunks, 17, 18, Buu and Piccolo. Frankly, Tenshinhan and Krillin should also be ranked up there assuming a Freeza-level threat, since Tenshinhan kept up a fight against Semi-Perfect Cell and Krillin was confirmed stronger.
    If they're ever in a pinch, Bulma should be able to build another 16 considering how many schematics she and Dr. Briefs ran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    I mean, Gotenks had a similar-to-better showing against Buu than Mystic Gohan did, and they were like bloody eight or something like that. By the time they were teenagers it could be expected they could take over the business.
    Nope. Boo managed to get a few hits in against Gotenks, but was utterly powerless against Gohan. Plus, both Goten and Trunks neglect training as they grow older, as can be seen in the original epilogue for the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indarra View Post
    Frankly, Tenshinhan and Krillin should also be ranked up there assuming a Freeza-level threat, since Tenshinhan kept up a fight against Semi-Perfect Cell and Krillin was confirmed stronger.
    "Keep up a fight" is a very generous estimate on your part. He used up all of his energy to hold Cell down for a while, but notice that Cell wasn't actually harmed by any of the Shin Kikohos.
    When was Krillin confirmed stronger than Tenshinhan?
    Last edited by The Troubadour; 2017-01-15 at 03:23 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Troubadour View Post
    Nope. Boo managed to get a few hits in against Gotenks, but was utterly powerless against Gohan. Plus, both Goten and Trunks neglect training as they grow older, as can be seen in the original epilogue for the series.



    "Keep up a fight" is a very generous estimate on your part. He used up all of his energy to hold Cell down for a while, but notice that Cell wasn't actually harmed by any of the Shin Kikohos.
    When was Krillin confirmed stronger than Tenshinhan?
    He never was.

    Krillin is the Strongest Pure Human, but Tien is only mostly human--he has alien Ancestry(something about a tribe of three eyed aliens living on the earth) so that might not be counting him. My understanding is that Tien is the strongest human in general, Krillin is the strongest Pure Human, and MR. Satan is the strongest human who can't consciously control his ki(with Base speed, strength, durability, and agility being at or near peak human capability without ki or supernatural assistance.) but I could be wrong on those listings.

    On the Tien thing, unless that was filler he put up a pretty good fight against Super Buu W/ Gotenks+Piccolo Absorbed.
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  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super

    I will say this: Gohan and Videl are relationship goals. (Also, is it weird he still refers to her as Videl-san? I'm no expert on Japanese honorifics, but that seems kind of overly formal for your wife? Or is Gohan really that polite and proper?)

    It was also nice to see Videl having some kind of personality again. I started rewatching the Great Saiyaman Saga recently, and it's sometimes difficult to remember that the Videl there and the Videl in Super are supposed to be the same person.

    It's good to see that Gohan is a good father. But then again, he learned from the best.
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    I am referring to Piccolo, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    He never was. [...]
    Hm! That makes sense. So even Tien underwent "Z" 's "they're actually aliens" retcon.

    On the Tien thing, unless that was filler he put up a pretty good fight against Super Buu W/ Gotenks+Piccolo Absorbed.
    Didn't he only use a Kikoho to blast away one of Boo's energy bolts? That's what happened in the manga, at least.
    Last edited by The Troubadour; 2017-01-15 at 04:44 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Troubadour View Post
    Hm! That makes sense. So even Tien underwent "Z" 's "they're actually aliens" retcon.
    I honestly don't think it was a retcon.

    When Goku went Great Ape at Pilaf's castle, Oolong said something to the effect of "maybe he's a space alien?"

    And while King Piccolo is presented as a demon... he's bald, green, and has antenna. He's solid black eyes away from being the stereotype of a space alien.
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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Tien's "contribution" against Buu was getting one-shot by a kick from a pair of legs that weren't even attached to Buu at the time. Toriyama stated Krillin was the strongest human, and I'm personally convinced he was including Tien in that assessment. If you want to believe otherwise there's nothing stopping you though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    I'm twisting nothing. I'm just saying things in less noble-sounding words. Gohan's "responsibility" was to spend the rest of his life doing something of no value, enjoyment, or fulfillment to himself, just in case another psycho from space showed up. And that sucks and I can entirely understand that the second it looked like someone else could hold the fort he jumped the **** out and only reluctantly jumped back in when it became absolutely necessary (by which point, of course, he was out of practice and get his behind summarily kicked).

    Goku can find happiness in it because Goku has the brains of a pea and most importantly he adores fighting, so for him it's basically an awesome hobby. For Gohan it would be a dreary job. A job he wouldn't have chosen, he wouldn't have liked, and which he wouldn't even get paid for on top of everything. I don't know about you, but I know I wouldn't last years doing a thing I didn't enjoy for no personal advantage at all, just on the chance that one day in the future it would prove absolutely essential. Six months at the outside.



    Because he's supposed to be pretty good anyway, and Goten/Trunks combo should have been more than enough to defend the Earth from anything that is not ridiculous escalation. I mean, Gotenks had a similar-to-better showing against Buu than Mystic Gohan did, and they were like bloody eight or something like that. By the time they were teenagers it could be expected they could take over the business.



    Basic pattern recognition is a thing. Remember all the times his supposed hidden great potential mostly meant he got a hit in before getting kicked? Or that time where he was explicitly said to be the strongest man on Earth and built up only to be punked by Buu inside of five minutes? I mean, seeing his track record, is it really that weird that Gohan might have the Krillin realization that hey, wait a minute, I am never actually succeeding at protecting anyone or managing to do anything of note, perhaps it's not actually worth it to spend the rest of my life training my ass off in increasingly demanding and harsh training regimes just so I can fail to save the day anyway? Because to me that sounds like something that a person that doesn't want to do this anyway would come to, eventually.
    Gohan is the one who saved everyone against Cell. In fact, Freeza, Cell, Buu, Freeza round 3 would have all killed everyone if not for him fighting. You're saying that he has enough pattern recognition to realize he's a character in an anime, but not enough to realize that the Earth faces continually escalating threats that require his attention?

    I also don't buy that he believes being stronger than Namek saga Freeza is enough to defend the Earth considering there have been at least 9 antagonists more powerful than that since then.

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I also don't buy that he believes being stronger than Namek saga Freeza is enough to defend the Earth considering there have been at least 9 antagonists more powerful than that since then.
    And depending on how you count them, some of those antagonists were robots built right here on Earth that were stronger than saiyans after three years of training after Freeza, so...its not even the alien problem. At any time, someone in a cave with a box of scraps could make something capable of destroying worlds.

    Gohan isn't thinking anime-like, he is thinking reasonably. He knows that he just wants to live a normal life, but he also recognizes that maybe Goku despite his track record, isn't going to always save the day forever to make sure that normal life is there. the viewers know that he will probably fail and Goku will get the win anyways, but a smart person's perspective its better to have backups in case Goku doesn't come through. Its not implausible that something like the Cell Saga could happen again with Goku getting hit by disease or being killed as a last ditch effort. Or being killed by sacrificing himself to take out Raditz.

    So there are three scenarios where Goku just straight up died, and at least one where he didn't come back. doesn't sound like an invincible hero to me. Especially not from an in-universe standpoint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post

    Interestingly, in the failed MMO, which was helped by Toriyama, Gohan was in fact credited as the reason why there could be so many powered Human player characters (which was a necessity because MMO) - Gohan had studied Ki thoroughly and released his findings and now anyone could learn all kinds of stuff. Now a very large chunk of humanity could use Ki, instead of it being limited to, like, Tenshinhan and Krillin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    That wasn't GT. That was the backstory of Online, which ignored GT and which Toriyama did designs and had creative control over.

    Interestingly enough, if we take Mr. Satan's comments about wanting Pan to train and become the heir to Satan Style martial arts to indicate that this will happen, we may well be heading towards the Online Timeline becuase in Online's backstory Pan was a master martial artist who took over Mr. Satan's Dojo at the age of 16.

    Ah yes, you are correct. Its been a while and my head combined the two. Thank you.
    Last edited by Tono; 2017-01-16 at 03:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    Interestingly, in the failed MMO, which was helped by Toriyama, Gohan was in fact credited as the reason why there could be so many powered Human player characters (which was a necessity because MMO) - Gohan had studied Ki thoroughly and released his findings and now anyone could learn all kinds of stuff. Now a very large chunk of humanity could use Ki, instead of it being limited to, like, Tenshinhan and Krillin.
    Yeah I always thought that was a good role for him- he may not be the best fighter, but his smarts combined with knowledge of ki techniques could make him a superb teacher for everyone else and thus protect Earth in a more reliable manner than Goku ever could simply by making sure there will always be enough fighters around for another Goku-level fighter to emerge again and teach people these techniques even better. And it would be a good way to finally combine both his fighter life and his work life in a way that would be comfortable for him. Let Gohan release the book, teach the first generation of Earth's new defenders how to fight and let them go forth to become awesome by themselves. He would be both living up to his scientist and smarts role while at the same time living up to the duty to defend the Earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I also don't buy that he believes being stronger than Namek saga Freeza is enough to defend the Earth considering there have been at least 9 antagonists more powerful than that since then.
    Well, we know there were no threats in outer space which compared to Freeza, considering the way he's spoken of (even by King Kai, who would know better) during the Namek arc. Gero was dead and no one else on Earth was capable of creating something like the Androids or Cell, Dabura was a completely unknown factor (even the Kaioshin was surprised to see he was serving Bobidi), and Boo falls under the same issue as the Androids - dead creator, no one else knew how to create something like that again (otherwise, why would the creator's own son spend so much time looking for Boo instead of making his own?). Also, it's arguable whether Androids 14 and 15 actually were stronger than Freeza (or were even close in power to him), considering pre-fusion!Piccolo can defeat them easily in direct combat, and I really doubt Bobidi's other champions (the guy from a 10G planet and the one which eats light) were even close to Freeza in power, considering how easily they were handled by untransformed Goku and Vegeta.

    Really, the best argument to there just not being that many powerful beings out there is that nothing at all happened in the time between Cell's defeat and Boo's awakening, and in spite of "Super", Goku does say the world has been at peace for a long time after Boo in the original epilogue. Even in "Super", who could predict there was a God of Destruction, much less that he was so powerful (considering the strongest other god we had seen, the Kaioshin, wasn't as strong as Cell)? Or that someone could resurrect Freeza with the Dragon Balls?

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    Well yeah, at the same time, Dragon Ball is actually pretty peaceful outside of a few rare beings who can actually wield ki. We ARE talking about a series about the top 5-10 fighters in the Universe, only 2 of which are any way comparable to the Gods of Destruction, who aren't even comparable to the top five of all Universes. like, we get one single villain who can destroy a lot per arc and nothing else, Freeza was the exception for having a lot of minions. DB Super is kind of what happens when your wuxia or shonen protagonist gets to the universe-killer point: there is so little people who have made it to the same point you have, that the people that can actually give you a good fight anymore can literally be counted one hand. To wit, the people that can give Goku a good fight:

    1. Beerus
    2. Vegeta
    3. Hit
    4. Champa
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    Shouldn't faux god Future Trunks be included on that last list?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akisa View Post
    Shouldn't faux god Future Trunks be included on that last list?
    I don't think that was Faux God.

    Super Saiyan Rage, if you take Heroes as a Relaible source, is basically a super saiyan form you get when you hit a rage breaking point while already super saiyan 2--it's basically an alternate form of Super Saiyan 3 from what I've put together.

    Which actually makes sense as call back--Super Saiyan Grade 3 is a 100%(X100 over SSJ1's X50) increase in power over base Super Saiyan, gotten entirely through training. It's an artificial transformation that puts ridiculous strain on the body, burns power like crazy, and slows you down considerably. Super Saiyan 2 is a natural 100% increase over Base Super Saiyan obtained by rage breaking point while already Super Saiyan(at least that's how Gohan got it) that is considerably less stressful on the body with more easily controlled power

    Super Saiyan 3 is a transformation obtained solely through training that puts considerably strain on the body and burns power like crazy... It's entirely possible that SSJ3 is an artificially transformation, like SSJ Grade's 2 and 3, and that Super Saiyan Rage is the "natural" way to reach SSJ3's level of power. I think we'd need word of Toriyama or a reappearance of Future Trunks to be know for sure, but it certainly seems plausibly in my mind at least till we get more concrete details.

    As for why Blue? Well, Vegeta refers to Super Saiyan Blue as the strongest form of Super Saiyan when talking to Cabba. Maybe the Blue is less a sign of it having God power and maybe more of a sign of just how much power the transformation gives? Or maybe Saiyans can just naturally reach god levels of power by getting strong enough--Goku cheated with SSJG and Vegeta was training with a God and Angel... but Vegeta never went SSJG as far as we know, so his body didn't absorb any God Ki, so for him and Goku to have both unlocked the same God form implies that it's a natural state saiyans can acquire. And Supr Saiyan Rage brings Trunks within spitting distance of that form without giving him the divine energy needed to access that level of power?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akisa View Post
    Shouldn't faux god Future Trunks be included on that last list?
    Your right, Half-God Trunks is five.
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