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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Alternate combat systems

    I was considering starting a game with a more detailed combat system. Where sword forms and such are used. Perhaps where the player has a list of sword forms to use as attack, defense, multiple enemies, and duels. Rather than just roll and "hit" or "miss," the form that you use is good for offensive, or defensive etc, and can be countered with other forms. And how much you made or missed the roll by is taken into account. Are there any other games out there that have used such alternative combat systems that I can review, and maybe draw inspiration from? What are the downfalls of extremely detailed combat styles?

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Alternate combat systems

    Riddle of Steel possibly. Downsides to more crunch is more downtime, less playing to other players not involved directly at that moment, less fudgibility, and lots of book-keeping.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

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    The Lakes

    Default Re: Alternate combat systems

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryyke View Post
    I was considering starting a game with a more detailed combat system. Where sword forms and such are used. Perhaps where the player has a list of sword forms to use as attack, defense, multiple enemies, and duels. Rather than just roll and "hit" or "miss," the form that you use is good for offensive, or defensive etc, and can be countered with other forms. And how much you made or missed the roll by is taken into account. Are there any other games out there that have used such alternative combat systems that I can review, and maybe draw inspiration from? What are the downfalls of extremely detailed combat styles?
    This sort of thing is always so tempting, but then I start looking at how long it takes to resolve even a short 1-v-1 combat.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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    Default Re: Alternate combat systems

    Burning Wheel.

    You roll for positioning, to see if the person with the longer or shorter weapon manages to put themselves at the advantage for the fight. You secretly script actions versus each other in advance (strike counters feint, feint counters block/counterstrike, etc) and then roll based on those interactions. You can spend additional successes over the target obstacle to move a hit to somewhere they're wearing less armour and/or increase the amount of damage the hit does. People hit are wounded based on the attacker's power + weapon vs the target's power + forte. Wounds degrade your ability to do anything, including continuing to fight.

    Downsides are it requires a good level of commitment from everyone involved to learn the rules because otherwise it's going to bog down and suck for everyone involved. Fights also take a lot of time to resolve.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: Alternate combat systems

    It is all about time. Do you want a combat simulation game or other role playing type game?

    This type of detail was all the rage in the 1980s. Then players got tired of the "one encounter, at best, per play session" and it died. My understanding that rolemaster was the peak of this type of thing.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Knaight's Avatar

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    Aug 2008

    Default Re: Alternate combat systems

    Burning Wheel has already been mentioned, and it's one of the big ones. I'd also recommend looking into REIGN, which has a system that can handle some complexity but also has the advantage of not being completely sluggish, and Legend of the Wulin, which has some oddities but also has an interesting system about gradually accumulating small advantages in battle (stuff like acclimating to how your opponent is fighting, people getting winded, etc.) which are then transfered into distinct attacks and defenses and such. It's much less grounded than the other two though, so if you're looking for realism look elsewhere - it's best used as an example of how to use a mechanic.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

    I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that.
    -- ChubbyRain

    Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Feb 2009

    Default Re: Alternate combat systems

    Das Schwarze Auge (The Dark Eye) 4th edition has a quite detailed combat system, especially if you use all the optional rules. Attacker has an attack roll, defender has a parade roll, both can apply additional maneuvers to the attack of parade (such as a powerful strike, a feint, a disarm etc). Stamina is drained during combat, armor protects different areas with different grade (so you may try to attack a less armored area), certain weapons are more effective against other weapons (e.g. when the guy with the dagger comes close to you, you will have a hard time defending with your halberd) etc.

    Unfortunately 4th edition rules are not widely availabe in English (only the core rulebook has been translated AFAIK, but not the combat book), but if you can read German it may be an option (Wege des Schwerts is the combat book). I think 5th edition is also available in English, but I have not had a look at the combat rules in there. From what I heard it has been simplified though.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
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    Jul 2014
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    Default Re: Alternate combat systems

    GURPS can do this – you can have fighting styles and specialisations.


    These can be introduced slowly if you want – have them only allowed to be taught by a master so if someone wants to learn “Sweeping Parry” (lets you parry a number of enemies at once) then they have to get someone to teach them

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Alternate combat systems

    FATE. Surprising, isn't it?

    Out of the box, it has little to offer you, but it has the advantage of being elegant and quick, and can be added to without any trouble - that modularity is part of the system. I made conversion for Naruto game, and it works pretty damn well, and with a setting that has an unholy mess of fighting styles all tossed in without all that much thought. FATE solves this by mechanically converting all the crazy into one of 4 possible styles of competiton, and wrapping them in unified rolling system.

    Stunts especially are where you can go ham with your design - make a houserule about some stunts being earned for free, and you're golden. You can have a style that excels in purely defensive combat (+2 do fight on full defense), other that is more suited to defense than offense (+1 on fight when creating advantage or attacking, -1 when defending), another one that is precisely calibrated to counter other specific styles or weapons (+3 to fight on attack against full defense or +3 against spears when fighting with a sword or +1 when fighting in armor against armor).

    If you really want to, you can even assign bonuses when a weapon faces another (sidearm vs dagger or unarmed gets +1, polearm against unarmed gets +1 and against sidearm gets +2) and so on.

    Of course, the more depth and complexity you add, the more difficult it will be to get into it.
    That which does not kill you made a tactical error.

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