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Thread: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
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2017-02-10, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
Has anyone else had issues with pathfinding in Tactical View? Every now and then a party member gets stuck for no apparent reason and I have to exit Tactical View and make them jump in order to get them unstuck.
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2017-02-10, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2017-02-11, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
So, after losing interest sometime after the game was released, I thought I'd come back to inquisition and try again. I picked up the Game of the Year edition since it was cheaper than buying all the DLC, but I noticed that Tresspasser added a number of new features, and I'm a tad confused as to how they work.
Steam ID: The Great Squark
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Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe
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2017-02-11, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
If you go under Options, you'll see a list of Trials you can enable. They're pretty self-explanatory. Take it Slow halves your XP, Walk Softly turns the occasional regular enemy into an Elite with new abilities, Fairweather Friends doubles disapproval, etc.
If you play the game with a Trial enabled, every once in a while you'll get a special reward (a new piece of equipment, some gemstones, etc.)
Sigils are also pretty self-explanatory: you stick them on arms and armour and they provide benefits and disadvantages. You find them as treasure.Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2017-02-11 at 02:29 PM.
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2017-02-11, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- Perfidious Albion
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
Sorry if this question has already been asked, but I'd rather not go through the threads for fear of spoilers. I've finally got around to playing DAI, and I'm currently
Is there any compelling (gameplay) reason why I should or should not do so? I've got the impression that continuing with the main quest is the way to unlock more stuff like specialisations, companions and such, but I'm worried about locking out stuff I should be doing now or being forced into making poor choices. The game seems to be encouraging me to continue the main quest, but the hints in previous Bioware games have often proved to be misleading, e.g.Spoiler: Probably not much of a spoiler but you can't be too carefulclearing out the Hinterlands, and I've got a mission to go to Val Royeaux.
Spoiler: Moderate Origins spoilerThe first game encouraging you to go to Redcliffe first when there are several good reasons not to do that.
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2017-02-11, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
I'd rather see them split into control mages and support mages, like mage enemies are split. But in general, I agree. Warriors and rogues should be folded together and split again in a less arbitrary manner.
They're not bad, just unimpressive. I miss the ability to silence opponents from DA2 - isn't that the Templars' supposed job? Although it's not like BW was ever big on letting them do what they're supposed to.
To be honest, I can't recall ever getting anything useful from that chest. I turned on the trials for slower XP gain and level-scaling to keep the game from becoming too easy.My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
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2017-02-11, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-02-11, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
What are the several good reasons not to go to Redcliffe first? It and the Circle tower are the two lowest-level areas you can choose once you have a choice. The only one I can see is "you should go to the Circle tower right away to get Wynne," which I don't find particularly compelling (and I suspect for much of the design cycle they were intending Jowan to join you at Redcliffe, anyway).
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-02-11, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
A father taken by time, a brother dead by my own hand.
With this work behold my grief, in Stone and shifting sand.
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2017-02-11, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-02-11, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
You can go to Redcliffe, leave after Connor is confronted and THEN go to the Circle. That's what I did.
There should be a consequence for doing so, but DG admitted to being too soft-hearted to punish players for wanting to save a mother and her son.
I did get this neat singing sword that was quite handy.Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2017-02-11 at 02:42 PM.
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2017-02-11, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
Whether you've been to the Circle first or not, that course is, "You leave Redcliffe with Connor currently under control, travel for days away, travel for days back." Whether the time you spend in the tower is minutes or the hours it takes to kill all the demons is irrelevant because logically it would be irrelevant; you spend the lion's share of the time on the road. They could have written a random "there's no good option here; kill Connor or have Jowan kill Isolde or I'll do something to make you wish you had because I do GRIMDARK like Gurm" screwjob, but it would have been seriously crappy writing.
Issues of judgments of what they "should" have done aside, is an incorrect belief about what happens if you go to Redcliffe first the only reason not to go there first?Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-02-11, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
Thanks very much. Off to not-France I merrily hop then.
Well, firstly there's the fact that Redcliffe is (at least in my experience) significantly more difficult than the Circle or the Dalish, secondly there's the fact that there's nice stuff you want in the Circle ASAP (Wynne, the Fade attribute bonuses, and a lot of nice items) while there's not a great deal of interest beyond the main quest in Redcliffe, and thirdly, while it is indeed possible to do Redcliffe up to Connor, then do the Circle, then come back, a first time player is unlikely to realise this, or even realise that going to the Circle for help is even a possibility in the first place (I only found out on my second playthrough, and then only through the wiki). It's this sort of Guide Dang It scenario I was referring to, and hoping to avoid myself.
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2017-02-11, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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2017-02-11, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
So I did Crestwood, pretty much all of it save the dragon, in one go. Thoughts:
1) Should probably have done it sooner instead of being anal-retentive about the Emerald Graves and the Hinterlands first. There were a couple of items that would have been great a while ago, but have fallen behind in terms of pure stats. The same goes for the Fallow Mire.
Spoiler: 2) Regarding the mayorI find it odd that when we catch up with him, there is no exoneration available at the judge's throne. The mayor sacrificed people who were going to die anyway in order to save the rest, wipe out a darkspawn horde, and prevent the darkspawn from laying their hands on any women, which would have been awful in many ways. That's the kind of decision that littered the first game and Mass Effect as well, and many in those games would have argued that that is the correct decision. But contempt for the mayor seems universal in this instance, and I don't quite get why. I chose exile for him, it being the most lenient option, but I felt there should have been some sort of "it's okay, we understand, don't let it ruin your life" option.
3) If I kill the dragon in Crestwood, can I do the "Celebrate the Dragonslaying" operation again? Would Wade and the nobles of Thedas really care that it's the second dragon I've killed? Also, does anyone else feel bad about killing dragons in the Dragon Age games? I mean, they're crawling back from the brink of extinction and along comes your character and kills all the reproductive females.
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2017-02-11, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
Regarding Crestwood's mayor:
SpoilerI think he does deserve to be punished. Sure, flooding Old Crestwood may have been necessary, but if it was the right thing to do, then why try to hide his actions?
Also, he's partly responsible for the disaster plaguing Crestwood now. He refused to drain the lake to recover the bodies left there, which allowed demons to possess them when the rift opened.
Exile strikes me as no better as exoneration, but imprisonment or death seems too severe. (I do prefer death to imprisonment, though.) My solution is to wait until Here Lies the Abyss to judge him and then give him to the Grey Wardens. If he dies during the Joining, then he's paid for his crimes. If he lives, then he can spend his life fighting darkspawn and perhaps do some good.Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2017-02-11 at 07:00 PM.
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2017-02-11, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
Your experience is incorrect. Redcliffe is the second easiest zone in the game. Only the circle scales mobs to a lower level.
Redcliffe and the Circle are both perfectly doable as the first zone. The Dalish is difficult but not impossible, the game flat out wont let you into Orzammar because theres an encounter outside that will kill you before you get there if you aren't strong enough, and Haven/Denerim both have serious challenges.
Also, at least for me, my character outright had a dialogue option that said "lets go to the circle, I bet they have Lyrium!" and that evidently will only not appear if you already went there and killed all the mages.“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2017-02-11, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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2017-02-11, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
The "now you can go to the tower, nothing will happen in however long you're gone" thing is pretty badly designed--but changing the design to "now we unavoidably shaft you, haw haw!" or "we're arbitrarily declaring that the days you spend traveling (or potentially months if you decide to stop off at Denerim and Orzammar before you come back) are safe, but the hours you spend clearing the tower pushes it over the Something Bad Happens threshold" would be worse design, not better.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-02-11, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
I reapectfully disagree. The point of the game was to make tough choices. Hell the very end shows you how your choices just screw things over often unintentionally.
And hell, other games have done great with mixing things up to shake the player out of thinking of the game as a game rather than an experience. Chrono Trigger's Trial and Deus Ex hostage's being the best examples I can think of which use analyzing what the game actions actually mean.
Now that doesn't mean you have to completely mess them up. The demon was destroying the town, you very deliberately were given an option to stop him that the player chose not to use. And so you should deal with those consequences. You can still save the child but the village is overrun. Or the possessed uncle is dead. Something to show that the actions have meaning rather than just being a conscience for the player.
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2017-02-11, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
The thing is, screwing the player over because they went to Redcliffe before the Circle, when the game specifically encourages you to do so, isn't cool. Its already possible to kill all the villagers by going to redcliffe, talking to people, then leaving to go to a different area and come back. The zombies will have killed everyone, and the Bann will show up to show you inside the castle straight away.
Requiring people to go to the circle first, when they have no indication that they need to, would be the definition of Guide Dang It.“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2017-02-11, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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2017-02-11, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
The whole point of giving the player agency and letting them make decisions is so they can work towards what they feel is an optimal ending. If you're just going to screw your player for something arbitrary like deciding to visit towns in the wrong order, you may as well not give them decisions at all.
Likewise, if you want a bittersweet ending to a plotline for your playthrough there's nothing stopping you from making those decisions. Personally, I like having the option to make things into a happy ending if I try hard enough. That's basically the whole point of giving me decision making ability in the first place.Last edited by Anteros; 2017-02-11 at 11:11 PM.
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2017-02-12, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
But the games have been doing that forever. You can randomly start a Crusade by promoting religious freedom. Bringing different characters to different situations can cause entirely different outcomes. Trust one double crossing princess and it can be good or bad and you have no idea beforehand. Iron Bull's betrayal or any of the others.
If it really gets your goat this specific time then at least write the scene in a way that makes sense for the demon to do jack all for a week at a time.
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2017-02-12, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
If you say so. It was always pretty clear to me what would happen with these decisions. I'm sure there's a few exceptions I'm not thinking of at the moment, but for the most part the games give you more than enough information to make the right decisions if you are paying attention.
I mean, like with Iron Bull. You're the one who taught him obedience to the Qun was more important than the life of his comrades. Are you really that surprised when he's not super loyal after that? It's an obvious consequence.Last edited by Anteros; 2017-02-12 at 12:21 AM.
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2017-02-12, 12:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
Regarding the thing with Connor: I agree that it doesn't really make sense that nothing bad happens when you go off to the Circle Tower to get help.
As far as rationalizing what we got goes:
- One could argue that a trained mage or templar who recognizes the threat that possessed-Connor poses could keep the demon from doing any further harm through him, at least for a little while, due to the counter-magic abilities that they possess (the various stun/disruption abilities that all three classes have could also help, though many of those abilities seem rather inadvisable if you want to avoid harming the target). Jowan's looking for a way to redeem himself and is present if you didn't tell him to go away (not sure that Teagan and Isolde would tolerate him being out of his cell even to prevent Connor from causing more trouble, though), and you could argue that inactive party members could be left somewhere to do something rather than be sitting at camp or following about 50' behind the active party waiting for the Warden to swap characters in the active party.
- Maybe the demon, which seems to not yet have full control over Connor, decided to wait a little while to see what the Warden and company would do rather than risk its prize by making it completely obvious that Connor remains a threat. After all, if they're willing to leave then it'll give the demon time to strengthen its hold over Connor, maybe influence the forewarned knights and villagers, or find an opportunity to slip away. This is only a reasonable explanation if the Warden goes about getting help from the Tower quickly, though; the longer the Warden is away, the less reasonable it is to think the demon is still in wait-and-see mode.
- Possessed-Connor's dialogue indicates that the attacks on the village are essentially due to boredom. If an alternative means by which possessed-Connor can be entertained is available (e.g. magic lessons with Jowan, not that I think it'd be advisable to train a possessed mage in how to use their magic better), maybe that could provide enough of a distraction to prevent trouble long enough for the Warden to go to the Tower and back.
- I don't think it's likely or all that reasonable even compared to the rest of this, but maybe a prepared and forewarned mundane NPC or group thereof would be able to resist possessed-Connor's magic well enough that the desire demon could be convinced that it's better off to wait for the Warden to return and try something during the ritual rather than trying anything while the Warden's away. The demon doesn't want to lose its prize, and there really isn't any feasible alternative to killing Connor if the demon starts making trouble before the Warden returns. That said, possessed-Connor was fairly clearly capable of controlling the throne room guards and Teagan (and Teagan may have known what was up before he got mind-controlled), so that seems a pretty slender straw to grasp at.
The thing is, screwing the player over because they went to Redcliffe before the Circle, when the game specifically encourages you to do so, isn't cool. Its already possible to kill all the villagers by going to redcliffe, talking to people, then leaving to go to a different area and come back. The zombies will have killed everyone, and the Bann will show up to show you inside the castle straight away.
Requiring people to go to the circle first, when they have no indication that they need to, would be the definition of Guide Dang It.
If they did want to include a way to save Connor without sacrificing either Isolde or the town while still penalizing leaving the area to go to the tower, all that they'd have needed to do would be to change the requirements of the lyrium ritual from "lyrium and mages from the Tower" to "lyrium in a form and quantity that the player could reasonably be expected to have on them or acquire from Bodahn Feddic or merchants in Redcliffe Village (e.g. 10 units of lyrium dust or its equivalent in potions) and at least two of Jowan, Morrigan, Wynne, mage-Warden, and maybe Redcliffe Village Mages' Collective Representative" while letting the player know what was required and indicating what the consequences of each choice would be. The player then gets the option of performing the lyrium ritual to save both Connor and Isolde without leaving long enough to put the village at risk if they're willing to foot the bill for the lyrium, and can still sacrifice Isolde or kill Connor to protect the village or go to the Circle Tower at the cost of bad things happening at Redcliffe because Connor hasn't been dealt with yet if they're unwilling to provide the lyrium.
The whole point of giving the player agency and letting them make decisions is so they can work towards what they feel is an optimal ending. If you're just going to screw your player for something arbitrary like deciding to visit towns in the wrong order, you may as well not give them decisions at all.Last edited by Aeson; 2017-02-12 at 01:09 AM.
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2017-02-12, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
Saying a political alliance with a major power is more important than 6 mercenaries on the other hand doesn't. Or, that sending a dwarf to study magic will cause an Exalted March on Orzammar. Or if you don't bring your sister into the Deep Roads she'll be attacked by Templar. Or you will only have the option to turn an evil mage tranquil if you picked Mage as your class all the way back in character customization. Or that Alistar when confronting some relative will suddenly turn into a good king, despite my never actually getting this quest in my first playthrough at all and not even knowing that he could be king when you get that conversation.
Or hell, every single conversation, where you don't know 100% if your companion will approve or not of your actions. The games were always about making decisions with the best knowledge available and hoping your best intentions play out. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But usually, you are right that the impact on the story does come out from your decisions. Sure, you may not have guessed that Dagna would cause an Exalted March, but, you know, it kind of makes sense.
When presented with the situation that you're leaving a demon unguarded in a town that we just saw that the unguarded demon could basically destroy said city and mind control the people nearby, the assumption is that he will do so again. The game not even attempting to offer a satisfying explanation why he doesn't do this is what's most vexing about the decisions. Maybe it needed another re-write, or have the campaign reworked so that you can't kill Jowan until you deal with the demon and he says some magic words to bind it until you get back. Something. But there's nothing, it just seems so out of place. Especially when up to that point the game had made a point that it was a Dark and Serious world (almost comically with the trailers, seriously, who thought that "This is the New ****" was a good theme song to go with?) with dark and serious consequences, this one kind of sticks out.
And for the record, Origin is still my favorite of the Dragon Age games. It's great. But, yeah, I think this mission could have used a once over.
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2017-02-12, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
If I had to redo Redcliffe, I'd have it so that you can leave a companion behind at Redcliffe, one of Morrigan, Alistair, or Wynne, to help keep Connor from hurting anyone else. If you don't, Connor ends up dead by the time you return from the Mage Circle. It makes going to the Circle a non-trivial choice while still being probably the best one.
The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2017-02-13, 12:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
I've run the Fallow Mire, which was unpleasant, to say the least. I did enjoy the comedic interlude of judging the Avvar chieftain who attacked Skyhold with a goat after all was said and done, though. Thereafter, I went off to the Western Approach and the Hissing Wastes and mostly completed the former (I think I just have to fight the high dragon, assuming I wish to), but then left the Hissing Wastes to handle some matters at Adamant Fortress.
Spoiler: Here Lies the Abyss; I haven't done Wicked Eyes/Hearts yetI was careful to save as many lives (both Warden and Inquisition) during the siege as possible, which made the final confrontation easier. The Fade sequence thereafter was ugly to look at but easy. I am glad that I chose the Knight-Enchanter specialization: cutting through manifestations of fear with a sword made out of my own pure will has a certain thematic appropriateness to it. I'm also glad Sera kept it together; I was worried about it, given how much she was freaking out in ambient party chatter, but nothing came of her issues with demons. The Nightmare was fairly easy to manage, and thereafter I sacrificed Hawke and decided to keep the Wardens around, under the reasoning that Corypheus has at least one archdemon and may have the ability to acquire more, and we'll need the Wardens to kill it. The decision turned out to be quite unpopular—understandably enough given what the Warden leadership had done—but what bothered me the most was who it was popular/unpopular with. Characters like Iron Bull supported my decision, while Solas and Cole strongly disapproved. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that; I may reload to see what happens the other way, even though it means fighting the Nightmare again.
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2017-02-13, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder
You're tackling the areas in an unusual order. Typically it goes:
Hinterlands
Fallow Mire
Crestwood
Western Approach/Exalted Plains
Emerald Graves
Emprise Du Lion
Hissing Wastes
With return trips as needed to handle higher-level adversaries. (The Storm Coast and Forbidden Oasis has content for all levels.)
Regarding Here Lies the Abyss:
SpoilerSolas opposes keeping around the Wardens because he thinks their quest to destroy the Old Gods will end in greater destruction. Without getting into spoilers, we're not certain why.
Cole opposes the decision because the Wardens hurt people. Simple as that.Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2017-02-13 at 02:45 AM.