Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder

[Morty]

Has anyone ever played a Reaver warrior with a shield? I'm planning to play an axe/shield elven or qunari warrior at some point, and I'm deciding between Templar and Reaver. I like Templar as a concept, but the specialization lost its teeth in Inquisition - feels like a generic paladin, not a mage-hunter. So I'll be going for Raver, but I'm not sure how that works with a shield.

[Anteros]

Has anyone ever played a Reaver warrior with a shield? I'm planning to play an axe/shield elven or qunari warrior at some point, and I'm deciding between Templar and Reaver. I like Templar as a concept, but the specialization lost its teeth in Inquisition - feels like a generic paladin, not a mage-hunter. So I'll be going for Raver, but I'm not sure how that works with a shield.

I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. You won't be doing tons of damage, or mitigating as much as a pure tank, but you should be able to handle anything the game throws at you.

[Keltest]

I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. You won't be doing tons of damage, or mitigating as much as a pure tank, but you should be able to handle anything the game throws at you.

My thoughts as well.

Actually, if you pick a lot of tanking abilities to build guard, it might work a bit better than 2h. Reaver abilities don't give a crap about your guard level, including Dragon Rage, so if you can keep your guard up you can really let loose with dragon rage and run around low on health all the time for the bonus damage.

[Dienekes]

My thoughts as well.

Actually, if you pick a lot of tanking abilities to build guard, it might work a bit better than 2h. Reaver abilities don't give a crap about your guard level, including Dragon Rage, so if you can keep your guard up you can really let loose with dragon rage and run around low on health all the time for the bonus damage.

The only real problem with that which I can see is that at harder difficulties guard generating is kind of a full power-bar job. So he may not be getting the full use of his damage if most of his powers revolve around generating his guard.

So if he is going guard reaver, it may behoove him to bring along Cass or Blackwall to be a true tank while he's more of an off-tank.

But it doesn't seem unplayable, by any means.

[S@tanicoaldo]

I dunno about you guys.

But I want a Spellbinder as a mage specialization in the next game. I want a floating book : D



What about you guys? Any class you guys want to show up?

[Morty]

There's a very long list of character creation options I'd like to see in the next Dragon Age game, but I'm fully aware 90% of them won't happen.

[Keltest]

Well, I would like the heavy artillery mage to return, personally. the dual wielding warrior is also something I miss from Origins.

[Dienekes]

Honestly, I'm more worried about the gameplay than the classes. I'd want Bioware to pick one: Either go for a full tactical combat game, or an action RPG. Trying to do both at the same time just makes the game a ridiculously easy tactics game or a bloated slog of an action game.

In any case, I do have a list of class specializations I'd like to play:
-Polearm Warrior
-Shield and spear Warrior
-Commander/tactical Warrior
-Bard Rogue

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I dunno about you guys.

But I want a Spellbinder as a mage specialization in the next game. I want a floating book : D



What about you guys? Any class you guys want to show up?

Where the blazes is that picture from?! It's so cool!

[Inarius]

Where the blazes is that picture from?! It's so cool!

Looks like its from DA:I. I think it might of been one of the NPC enemy types though I'm not totally sure on that.

edit: yup thats from the game, heres the Codex entry

[Giggling Ghast]

Spellbinders appear throughout the game. Their teleport effect actually has them transform into a funnel of pages from their books.

I normally can't stomach playing mages, but I could see myself playing a Virtuoso type of mage in DA4 after trying it out in multiplayer. Maybe we could be mentored by Zither!

[Morty]

As generally unenthusiastic as I am about Inquisition's multiplayer, some of the kits do freely mix and match between classes and specializations, or introduce new abilities. Some use completely unique mechanics, like Zither and the Saarebas. So I have a modest amount of hope they're testing things for future instalments this way. But I also greatly hope they don't alter the single player experience to fit multiplayer again, which I'm pretty sure happened in Inquisition.

[Psyren]

As generally unenthusiastic as I am about Inquisition's multiplayer, some of the kits do freely mix and match between classes and specializations, or introduce new abilities. Some use completely unique mechanics, like Zither and the Saarebas. So I have a modest amount of hope they're testing things for future instalments this way. But I also greatly hope they don't alter the single player experience to fit multiplayer again, which I'm pretty sure happened in Inquisition.

This is not automatically a bad thing. ME3 single player was modified to fit the needs of multiplayer and it worked out extremely well - no-pause gameplay, tech combos, level- and weight-based cooldowns rather than researched ones, etc.

The one negative was the removal of time dilation from Cloak and AR in single player (since that would be impossible to implement without slowing down everyone on the server periodically.) That sucked at first, but I think the faster pace of the game that resulted made us better off.

Where DAI falls down is the greater dependence on specific gear and specific comps to succeed. In ME3 multiplayer, you can use a starting class with a bronze weapon like the Human Engineer with an Avenger X and still clear gold difficulty. Not so much DAI, where the loot treadmill was even more important and carrying was nigh impossible. In small-scale multiplayer, carrying needs to be a thing, otherwise one greenhorn or troll can irreparably ruin the entire match for everyone else.

[Dienekes]

This is not automatically a bad thing. ME3 single player was modified to fit the needs of multiplayer and it worked out extremely well - no-pause gameplay, tech combos, level- and weight-based cooldowns rather than researched ones, etc.

The one negative was the removal of time dilation from Cloak and AR in single player (since that would be impossible to implement without slowing down everyone on the server periodically.) That sucked at first, but I think the faster pace of the game that resulted made us better off.

Where DAI falls down is the greater dependence on specific gear and specific comps to succeed. In ME3 multiplayer, you can use a starting class with a bronze weapon like the Human Engineer with an Avenger X and still clear gold difficulty. Not so much DAI, where the loot treadmill was even more important and carrying was nigh impossible. In small-scale multiplayer, carrying needs to be a thing, otherwise one greenhorn or troll can irreparably ruin the entire match for everyone else.

Minor correction, AR does slow down time in the single player. It just doesn't in the multiplayer version, where it becomes similar to Marksman.

Any way, I agree with you on the rest. DAI's multiplayer was a number's check, because that's largely how the combat in DAI works. You can mix it up by playing tactically with your entire groups abilities, but when you're only playing one character the coordination to do that is much harder.

While ME3 multiplayer was mostly a skill check. If you know how to aim, you can generally beat all but the hardest difficulties with whatever loot you want.

[Morty]

This is not automatically a bad thing. ME3 single player was modified to fit the needs of multiplayer and it worked out extremely well - no-pause gameplay, tech combos, level- and weight-based cooldowns rather than researched ones, etc.

The one negative was the removal of time dilation from Cloak and AR in single player (since that would be impossible to implement without slowing down everyone on the server periodically.) That sucked at first, but I think the faster pace of the game that resulted made us better off.

Where DAI falls down is the greater dependence on specific gear and specific comps to succeed. In ME3 multiplayer, you can use a starting class with a bronze weapon like the Human Engineer with an Avenger X and still clear gold difficulty. Not so much DAI, where the loot treadmill was even more important and carrying was nigh impossible. In small-scale multiplayer, carrying needs to be a thing, otherwise one greenhorn or troll can irreparably ruin the entire match for everyone else.

DAI's gameplay was modified to suit multiplayer a lot more than ME3's, though. The control scheme and skills were tailored to one player controlling every character, and then three of those characters are given to the AI in singleplayer. ME3's changes are more subtle, and the core experience remains largely unchanged. It helps that in Mass Effect, the NPC teammates were always AI-directed and the player only gave them simple commands.

It's also true that the resulting multiplayer isn't riveting, but that's beside the point. One can hope they find a way to make both modes work in the next game. I would like to see a good multiplayer experience in Dragon Age.

[JadedDM]

I hope they bring back Spirit Healer...and healing in general. That was my favorite class in the first two games and I sorely missed it in the third.

[Dienekes]

I hope they bring back Spirit Healer...and healing in general. That was my favorite class in the first two games and I sorely missed it in the third.

I'd be surprised if they did. Limiting healing offers a lot of theoretical possibilities on map and encounter design and opens up party comp that would break with free healing. And Bioware seems to be making some halfhearted steps to try and do that in DAI. And since that was the most successful DA game in terms of units sold, I doubt they'd go back on that.

[Inarius]

I'd be surprised if they did. Limiting healing offers a lot of theoretical possibilities on map and encounter design and opens up party comp that would break with free healing. And Bioware seems to be making some halfhearted steps to try and do that in DAI. And since that was the most successful DA game in terms of units sold, I doubt they'd go back on that.

Limited healing does indeed do that, but then Bioware added in stuff like Barrier and Guard which when you look at it functions as a healing mechanic. They don't restore your health bar but they generate additional health bars that can be refilled via various means. If enemies had more guard and barrier breaking abilities it might be a different story, but as it is adding more healing into the mix would just make things absurdly easy.

[Dienekes]

Limited healing does indeed do that, but then Bioware added in stuff like Barrier and Guard which when you look at it functions as a healing mechanic. They don't restore your health bar but they generate additional health bars that can be refilled via various means. If enemies had more guard and barrier breaking abilities it might be a different story, but as it is adding more healing into the mix would just make things absurdly easy.

Part of why I said it was a halfhearted attempt.

There are ideas in there. Some damn good ideas, actually. But the implementation is all over the place.

[Kish]

I just hope they never bring back the awful "on Thedas everyone regenerates like Wolverine except when they don't" thing.

(Being able to play a blood mage again, and have it acknowledged in the story, would be nice too.)

[Psyren]

I just hope they never bring back the awful "on Thedas everyone regenerates like Wolverine except when they don't" thing.

(Being able to play a blood mage again, and have it acknowledged in the story, would be nice too.)

That was one thing I have to give Inquisiton props for, it did a good job at actually paying attention to the specialization you picked and making NPCs react to it. Hopefully future titles do the same.

I also love the idea of learning specializations from characters in the world, instead of just finding books or assigning points. The Rift Mage teacher is still hands down one of my favorite minor characters in all of Thedas. I kind of wish Mass Effect had done the same thing, e.g. including dialogue where Tali teaches you how to craft a defense drone or Miranda teaches you her biotic slam, and they could even throw some romance dialogue in there.

[Morty]

Limited healing does indeed do that, but then Bioware added in stuff like Barrier and Guard which when you look at it functions as a healing mechanic. They don't restore your health bar but they generate additional health bars that can be refilled via various means. If enemies had more guard and barrier breaking abilities it might be a different story, but as it is adding more healing into the mix would just make things absurdly easy.

Part of why I said it was a halfhearted attempt.

There are ideas in there. Some damn good ideas, actually. But the implementation is all over the place.

Barriers and guard were definitely a good start, but they do need more to be done with them. More interaction with offensive abilities, like Inarius said. Also, mages need more than one way to apply barrier. Warriors have different abilities that put guard on them and their allies, but mages just get the one spell that they drop on the party. For the most part, anyway. Knight-Enchanters can refill their barrier with spirit blade attacks. This is something we should see more of.

[Dienekes]

Barriers and guard were definitely a good start, but they do need more to be done with them. More interaction with offensive abilities, like Inarius said. Also, mages need more than one way to apply barrier. Warriors have different abilities that put guard on them and their allies, but mages just get the one spell that they drop on the party. For the most part, anyway. Knight-Enchanters can refill their barrier with spirit blade attacks. This is something we should see more of.

I really don't know, man. On the surface more ways to interact with the mechanic seems nice. But, part of the problem with KE in the first place (and the combat in general) is because the ability generates barriers so consistently the game's tactical elements just turned into a numbers check: Can you refill your barrier faster than your opponents can take them down.

Hell, doing the same thing with Warrior was how I basically broke the game. Go Champion, put up 5-6 Guard abilities and you're immortal. Hell, doing that I solo'd dragon's over my level on the hardest difficulty, it was just very, very boring. Which, again, is one of the main problems with the Dragon Age combat.

[Morty]

True, I suppose. The idea is nice, but it might fall into the same old pitfalls.

[Anteros]

I really don't know, man. On the surface more ways to interact with the mechanic seems nice. But, part of the problem with KE in the first place (and the combat in general) is because the ability generates barriers so consistently the game's tactical elements just turned into a numbers check: Can you refill your barrier faster than your opponents can take them down.

Hell, doing the same thing with Warrior was how I basically broke the game. Go Champion, put up 5-6 Guard abilities and you're immortal. Hell, doing that I solo'd dragon's over my level on the hardest difficulty, it was just very, very boring. Which, again, is one of the main problems with the Dragon Age combat.

I'm not convinced that's a failing in the engine. I mean, you specifically built a character name the most boring way possible...of course it's boring!

[Dienekes]

I'm not convinced that's a failing in the engine. I mean, you specifically built a character name the most boring way possible...of course it's boring!

The game was about tactical choice and party composition. I made a good tactical choice (actually, a blatantly obvious tactical choice with even the slightest understanding of the game mechanics), and all challenge in the game ends. You actually have to be asleep to lose if you're near an appropriate level. That's pretty bad gameplay, just in general.

At least when compared to other tactics games like, for example, X-Com and Fire Emblem where no such mathematical guaranteed success exists.

Of course, you could argue that the way the system is set up is meant to be more like an action game. But, it's a pretty crappy action game as well. Because again, the game is won and lost on number checks and not player skill input.

[Inarius]

I'm not convinced that's a failing in the engine. I mean, you specifically built a character name the most boring way possible...of course it's boring!

I think its a little of both. It's designing a character to intentionally take advantage of a mechanic within the game. The mechanic is a good start but I feel guard/barrier need more refinement. The whole reason for the damage nerf for KE wasn't because spirit blade did super awesome damage (my rogues autoattack for more than unnerfed spirit blade). It was because of the spammability of a moderate damage ability that allowed you to sustain your barriers and reduce the cooldowns of your big hitting abilities like energy barrage and fire mine.

[Aeson]

In addition to what Dienekes just said, I'd suggest that it's fair to fault a game for allowing the player the option of making one or more characters essentially invulnerable.

[Dienekes]

In addition to what Dienekes just said, I'd suggest that it's fair to fault a game for allowing the player the option of making one or more characters essentially invulnerable.

I'd make the small caveat that some times bugs and exploits sneak into a system. That happens, no game is perfect.

But if beating the game just comes from going down two skill trees, that's on them.

[Aeson]

I'd make the small caveat that some times bugs and exploits sneak into a system. That happens, no game is perfect.

Agreed. Consider the statement amended to "I would suggest that it's fair to fault a game for allowing the player to make one or more characters essentially invulnerable if doing so does not involve taking advantage of bugs or anything more than very minor exploits." An example of a very minor exploit might be equipping a stat-boosting item to allow a character to equip another item, and then replacing the stat-boosting item with something else.