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2017-08-08, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Because I mentioned it in another thread: archer's eye (normal) doesn't do anything. There are no penalties from concealment, and there is consequentially nothing to ignore. Also, the current dysfunction listed for it is nonsense -- it never mentions cover, and the inability to attack targets is not a penalty.
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2017-08-08, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Rhymes with "Protracted."
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Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2017-08-09, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
But it's a completely pointless exception - it could be a full action, but it being a full attack action just doesn't make sense. It being a full attack action when that's not what a full attack action is or does is clearly pointless and self-abnegating.
EDIT: "Rules that do something that is vastly contrary from anything that could possibly be the intended effect" - I don't think you're meant to be able to make a heat death at the end of your pounce.Last edited by Jormengand; 2017-08-09 at 08:48 AM.
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2017-08-09, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
You know, that might actually be exactly why it was worded that way. 9 levels without ML advancement for a Save or Die that can be used whenever you would otherwise have a Full Attack is arguably worth it for a Gish. Although it'd be a lot more worth it if it followed Warmind and Psionic Fist and had PP progression of it's own.
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2017-08-09, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- In the Playground, duh.
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2017-08-09, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
It works just fine in the rules. The game can handle alternate uses for a full attack action no problem. See Whirlwind Attack, for example.
I don't think they were intended to be used together, but it doesn't seem to be problematic rules-wise, beyond the usual problems with pounce that I assume are in the handbook already.Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2017-08-16, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
We've discussed lycanthrope before, but I think there might be a bit more to talk about.
First is one I'm not so sure about. They mention that a lycanthrope with a manufactured weapon uses that with a bite, but doesn't use claws. Is that a legal statement? Do we just say specific trumping general and move on?
The second one is a bit broader, but much clearer. The hybrid form gains 2 claws and a bite, regardless of what the original animal was. I'm fine with that, I don't need these monsters to make sense. The problem arises when the examples don't follow those rules. The wererat has no claws in its hybrid form, and the wereboar has a gore instead of a bite attack. The wererat was likely for CR reasons and the wereboar for sense, but if this how it works why are there no rules discussing how to deal with similar animals? If it's just a case of specific trumping general to try to make more sense, we're left with the fact that something like a were-elephant has a bite instead of a gore, which counteracts the point of their example.Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2017-08-16, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
The thing with manufactured weapons makes perfect sense depending on how it's worded. You can mix manufactured and natural as you wish, but you can't use that appendage if it's occupied: that is, you can't use a claw attack if you're using that hand to hold a sword. I forget where this is stated but I'm fairly confident that that's an explicit rule. I guess it could cause some issues if they worded it badly and using braid blades stopped you using hands or you could use a mouthpick and a bite at the same time though.
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2017-08-17, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Sure, the rule about not being able to claw when your hand is full makes perfect sense. I was thinking about using a light or one-handed weapon, which should leave the other claw open to attack. The sample wereboar is using two hands for the battleaxe, so that's fine. The sample wererat is using a rapier so should get the other claw, but as mentioned before the wererat doesn't have any claws for unknown reasons. The sample werewolf lord is wielding a bastard sword with one hand, and isn't holding a shield, so should get a claw attack with the off hand.
For example, the xill has a full attack of 2 short swords and 2 claws because it has 4 arms. Shouldn't the same rules apply for lycanthropes?
Now that I'm looking closer, what on earth is happening with the werebear's hybrid form? How is it attacking with a claw first and then the greataxe second? That's not just breaking the established rule of not attacking with a claw when your hand is full (and the rule in the tempate about this) that's breaking basic weapon and natural attack rules. The greataxe attack here is being treated like it's a secondary attack, since it's at only a -2 penalty and receives half the strength bonus, and that's not how any of this works. Also even when the greataxe is used as a primary attack as a standard action,there's no reason that it should be at a +11 bonus, it should be at +13 just like the claw.
EDIT: Another look at werebear has at least answered the question of attack bonus. The greataxe is one for the Medium human form, so when he is a Large hybrid he takes a -2 penalty for an inappropriate sized weapon, and can treat it as a one-handed weapon. That being said, it still does not explain how he's treating it as a secondary attack.Last edited by The Viscount; 2017-08-20 at 08:51 PM.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2017-08-17, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Don't we have a standing dysfunction for all WotC stat blocks?
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2017-08-17, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-08-17, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2017-08-17, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I think somebody listed the nondysfunctional one once and there were like... 3? I think it was the RKV, Totemist and one other. Maybe the Binder?
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2017-08-17, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-08-17, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
We do, but it's typically just poor calculation for sample characters. Monsters are different, and this is a problem beyond simple incorrect numbers.
I've only ever seen one old thread about it (linked in the handbook) and the first person to come in found a mistake on the first one they turned to and gave up immediately.Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2017-08-20, 12:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
It's a little hard for me to verify at the moment, but damage from thirst and starvation can't be healed until the creature eats/ drinks, right? Wouldn't that mean that a creature that dies from thirst or starvation can't be brought back from the dead? They can't eat while dead and I don't think any spell gives them a full stomach when they're brought back.
Though technically the negative hp buffer keeps this from happening easily. A creature is more likely to die from the state of dying than from actual starvation. A creature revived to -1 hp is still alive and can be force-fed. For a creature to truly die of thirst, it would have to successfully stabilize in negative hp and actually have the killing blow come from thirst damage. Then it's hp would be forever stuck at -10.
Though I suppose if you could somehow buff a dead creature's constitution while it was dead, it would have a renewed pool of hp that wasn't taken away through starvation. Is there any way to make potential HP for a dead creature without reviving it?
Just some stupid late-night thoughts.
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2017-08-20, 01:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I do not remember the thirst rules in Sandstorm but in the DMG you cannot die of hunger or thirst. Sandstorm may have changed that. Raise Dead specifies that your HP is a number so I am not sure if this counts as healing. I am AFB so I cannot give a better opinion of that.
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2017-08-20, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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2017-08-20, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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2017-08-22, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Shatter mind blank dispels mind blanks "Affecting the target" but doesn't target anything, it has an area.
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2017-08-22, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2017-08-22, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
You mean to say that an ability from a subsystem that many DMs ban offhand, which is almost strictly worse than dispel psionics, and which only works against an exceptionally limited set of abilities which don't often see play partly because they're too high level, will never come up? HERESY!
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2017-08-22, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-08-23, 06:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- In the Playground, duh.
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2017-08-23, 08:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-09-04, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
The Torc of Power Preservation is very poorly worded. The effect is given as follows
"The wearer of a torc of power preservation manifests all powers by paying power points equal to the standard cost minus 1 (minimum of 1)."
Because of the poor wording, it might be interpreted as making augments cost nothing, or as allowing the wearer to manifest all their powers at the same time.Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2017-09-04, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
This thread is not for dysfunctions that only arise because of a specific reading of the text unless every possible reading of the text is dysfunctional no matter how you read it. Further I'm not convinced you even can read it as saying that you manifest them all at once.
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2017-09-04, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Wild Surge always makes you pay only the unaugmented cost of the power regardless of any augmentation done in addition to what Wild Surge provides. Given the example above I am wondering if someone just forgot about that spiffy augmenting mechanic.
Last edited by ZamielVanWeber; 2017-09-04 at 02:48 PM.
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2017-09-05, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2017-09-05, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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