Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

[AthasianWarlock]

Silver Fire is a SU ability so it can't be activated in an antimagic field.... if it could be activated it would destroy an antimagic field.

[flare'90]

Silver Fire is a SU ability so it can't be activated in an antimagic field.... if it could be activated it would destroy an antimagic field.

You can't use it from inside, but from the outside it works as normal. That's not a dysfunction, like how mage's disjunction can dispel AMF (the spell) from the outside but not from the inside.

[The Viscount]

Ancestral vengeance is a 2nd level Shaman spell that deals 1d6/2 levels damage (1d8/2 levels in the update) to a target, or 1d6/level if they are undead. It has a fort save for half damage, which means that it actually deals no damage to undead. Whoops!

[The Viscount]

As pointed out by Doctor Awkward, the Mercurial Strike feat requires an enemy provoke an AoO from you while you are unarmed, and thus do not threaten.

[ZamielVanWeber]

/Note the feat works fine if you have IUS. Which is pretty lurpy and it is definitely dysfunctional since why would a feat exists that let's you hit with a [i]different[/t] weapon and does not require the feat it needs to work?

[Troacctid]

I disagree that it's dysfunctional and here's why.

You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.

Your threatened area is defined by the area that you can make melee attacks into, per the first bolded section. There's a specific restriction on unarmed attacks, per the second bolded section. Mercurial Strike is an exception to that restriction, which means it overrides it, allowing you to make opportunity attacks regardless. Your threatened area is still defined because the base definition (back to the first bolded part) can now be applied without the added restriction.

I didn't check RC, so I could be missing something here, but I think the feat works.

[The Viscount]

Can Mercurial Strike enable you to override this clause without stating within the feat "you threaten even though you are unarmed" or something to that extent in the feat? Usually feats like this acknowledge the normal rules, either in their wording, or by having a "normal" section.

[Troacctid]

Usually they do, but it's not like they have to.

[The Viscount]

Dragonborn is a funny thing. Part template, part class, source of numerous oddities. In the traits section under type and subtype we have the following line.

For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon and a member of her original race.

Which means that they apparently aren't counted as a dragonborn for the purpose of effects, but more importantly being a dragon means goodies like automatically qualifying for prereqs that require dragonblood, taking fun feats like rapidstrike, etc.

[Nifft]

Dragonborn is a funny thing. Part template, part class, source of numerous oddities. In the traits section under type and subtype we have the following line.


Which means that they apparently aren't counted as a dragonborn for the purpose of effects, but more importantly being a dragon means goodies like automatically qualifying for prereqs that require dragonblood, taking fun feats like rapidstrike, etc.

Huh... so like, if there were a magic item which only worked for Dragonborn, then even a Dragonborn would need to UMD-to-emulate-race to use the item.

[Dimers]

I disagree about dragonborn not belonging to their own race. Half-elves and half-orcs have similar text. If RoD had said "For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is only considered a dragon and a member of her original race", sure. But I see nothing to indicate that the transformed creature wouldn't inherently have the dragonborn race as well.

I preemptively dismiss arguments that the race has to be explicitly written. Would you assume that the half-celestial template doesn't make you a half-celestial, too, just because it doesn't have a line saying "You become a half-celestial"?

[ShurikVch]

Maybe, it's just me, but from the description of Meteoric Knife -

Spoiler: Meteoric Knife

Show

This knife functions as a +1 dagger. In
addition, a meteoric knife has three charges,
which are renewed each day at dawn.
Spending 1 or more charges enhances the
dagger’s magical properties as described
below. The effects last for 1 round.
1 charge: The dagger gains the returning
property.
2 charges: The dagger gains the flaming
and returning properties.
3 charges: The dagger gains the flaming
and returning properties (DMG 224–225).
In addition, if it hits a creature, it deals
normal damage and creates an explosion
of fire that deals an extra 3d6 points of
fire damage to the target and all creatures
adjacent to it (Refl ex DC 14 half).

- I initially got: "There is no difference between spending two or three points, and explosion happens regardless of points you spent (or even - didn't spent)."

[The Viscount]

I disagree about dragonborn not belonging to their own race. Half-elves and half-orcs have similar text. If RoD had said "For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is only considered a dragon and a member of her original race", sure. But I see nothing to indicate that the transformed creature wouldn't inherently have the dragonborn race as well.

I preemptively dismiss arguments that the race has to be explicitly written. Would you assume that the half-celestial template doesn't make you a half-celestial, too, just because it doesn't have a line saying "You become a half-celestial"?

I can see that, but they're still counted as dragons, which is clearly not the intent.

[Dimers]

I can see that, but they're still counted as dragons, which is clearly not the intent.

Really? I recognize it as unwise, but what suggests to you that it's unintended?

Oh, do you mean that you think the intention was "counts as a dragonborn and their base race" instead of just "dragon and their base race"?

[The Viscount]

Really? I recognize it as unwise, but what suggests to you that it's unintended?

Oh, do you mean that you think the intention was "counts as a dragonborn and their base race" instead of just "dragon and their base race"?

I think the intention was indeed that it would count as dragonborn and their base race.

I recognize I made a strong claim, and I can't definitively prove that that they didn't intend it, but there are a number of other dragonblooded races, none of which count as dragons. It's not normal and certainly may be unprecedented for a creature to count as a different type for the purposes of effects rather than just changing type. This is also the book that features dragonwrought kobold, which changes your type to dragon. They could have simply made them the Dragon type if they wanted to, but they didn't.

[Oberron]

Brew flesh craft poison from one of paizo's 3.5 adventure books is unusable without houserules. Even then has a lot of meaningless rules in it.

[Zaq]

Brew flesh craft poison from one of paizo's 3.5 adventure books is unusable without houserules. Even then has a lot of meaningless rules in it.

Care to elaborate?

[Oberron]

Care to elaborate?

From the srd:

In addition to the several fleshcrafting procedures listed, it’s encouraged in drow society for characters experienced with fleshcrafting to constantly experiment and invent new ways of twisting flesh. The following feat is required to successfully brew a fleshcrafting potion.

Prerequisites: Caster level 10th, 8 or more ranks in Craft (alchemy).

Benefit: You can create a fleshcrafting poison capable of mimicking one monster ability. Brewing a poison takes 1 day. When you create a fleshcrafting poison, you set the caster level, which can be no higher than your own level. The base price of a temporary fleshcrafting poison is its caster level × the CR of the creature used in the fleshcrafting × 50 gp. To brew a poison, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing 1/2 this base price.

The base price of a permanent fleshcrafting poison is its caster level × the CR of the creature used in the fleshcrafting × 1000 gp. To brew a poison, you must spend 1/25 of this price in XP and use up raw materials costing 1/2 this base price.

Note: If the fleshcrafting is an original creation, use the nearest equivalent monster that possesses a similar body part or ability


Setting the caster level has no point for the DC which is something you WANT to fail and can just chose to. It's a poison that does good stuff. It's cheaper to make when the caster lvl is lower. On all the examples in the book it list some negative effects but doesn't say how they got to those negative effects also says they replace body parts but the feat doesn't. Doesn't define what a monster ability is. The caster level can't be higher but you could make it 0 for free or even negative since setting CL doesn't have a limit aside from being low enough to cast the spell for crafting which no spell is used. No listed duration 9r even a way to calculate one even using examples given in the book. It goes on and on about how houser led this feat really is.

[ShurikVch]

There is a new one: guess how many classes in the game able to qualify for Fleshwarper PrC (Lords of Madness)?
Two: Adept and Dread Necromancer.
But what's about the Wizard and Sorcerer? How are they unfit for this PrC?
Simple: they're don't have the Summon Familiar class feature!
But wait... They do have it - there it is, in the tables!
Exactly! In the tables - but not in the text: text says just "Familiar:" - not "Summon Familiar:", and text trumps table...

[HouseRules]

There is a new one: guess how many classes in the game able to qualify for Fleshwarper PrC (Lords of Madness)?
Two: Adept and Dread Necromancer.
But what's about the Wizard and Sorcerer? How are they unfit for this PrC?
Simple: they're don't have the Summon Familiar class feature!
But wait... They do have it - there it is, in the tables!
Exactly! In the tables - but not in the text: text says just "Familiar:" - not "Summon Familiar:", and text trumps table...

When discussion if something is Dysfunctional or Not, ignore primary source rules.
Otherwise, we have several times as many rules that are considered dysfunctional.

[EliDupree]

There is a new one: guess how many classes in the game able to qualify for Fleshwarper PrC (Lords of Madness)?
Two: Adept and Dread Necromancer.
But what's about the Wizard and Sorcerer? How are they unfit for this PrC?
Simple: they're don't have the Summon Familiar class feature!
But wait... They do have it - there it is, in the tables!
Exactly! In the tables - but not in the text: text says just "Familiar:" - not "Summon Familiar:", and text trumps table...

I would argue that this isn't a disagreement between text and table - ain't no rule saying that there can't be two different terms to refer to the same class feature.

[ShurikVch]

And one more: Bogun (Monster Manual II)

Alignment: Always neutral (same as the creator)

And what's if the creator isn't Neutral?

[Celestia]

And one more: Bogun (Monster Manual II)And what's if the creator isn't Neutral?

Clearly, you can only create boguns if you're neutral.

[HouseRules]

And one more: Bogun (Monster Manual II)And what's if the creator isn't Neutral?

Clearly, Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Good, and Chaotic Evil are forbidden from creating.

[The Viscount]

Spirit shaman sheds a single tear.

[ShurikVch]

Clearly, Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Good, and Chaotic Evil are forbidden from creating.

But what if the creator later change their alignment to one of those?

[Bucky]

Pathfinder(1)'s Overwatch Style feat lets its user ready two ranged attacks with different triggers at the same time. They are explicitly different readied actions.

Unfortunately for Overwatch Style adepts, a readied action is lost if the user takes any other action after readying it. Thus, they can't actually take both shots; they get one shot with a broader trigger condition. And the -2 Rapid Shot penalty, because that text's fully functional.

[HeraldOfExius]

Theurgy is a Pathfinder feat that lets you sacrifice arcane/divine spell slots to boost the opposite kind of spells.

Prerequisites: Wis 13, Int or Cha 13, able to cast 1st-level arcane spells, able to cast 1st-level divine spells.
[...]
When casting an arcane spell, you may sacrifice a divine spell slot or prepared divine spell of the same or higher level as a swift action. Half the damage dealt by the arcane spell becomes holy (if you channel positive energy) or unholy (if you channel negative energy).

You need to be able to channel energy to determine the outcome of sacrificing a divine spell slot, but channeling energy isn't one of the prerequisites.

[The Viscount]

As explained by Zaq in this thread, Darkmask gives sneak attack as a class feature, but doesn't describe how many dice.

[ShurikVch]

Creatures with Fire immunity are able to swim in molten iron, but still would die from boiling water

Also, I know "All example characters are known to be wrong", but still point one thing for how widespread it is:
Most of Humanoids are have some "racial" subtype (Human, Baatezu etc.)
But in example creatures for the templates - if template changes type, then subtype is absent
While sometimes RAW actually required subtype removal (such as for Zombie), in other cases there is no such demand, but subtypes are missing all the same (see "Sample Vampire" in Monster Manual and "Half-Troll Barbazu" in Fiend Folio for examples)

And speaking of subtypes: for all common playable races, there are no RAW which says they're have the subtype - neither in Player's Handbook, nor in Monster Manual

And one even more widespread problem: almost none of monster stat blocks includes unarmed strike or touch attack; it causes cases of "Attack: —" (such as for Bat).
Too small to make any damage? Well, how about the Kaiju Bat? Still "Attack: —"?