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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    This online article contains a magic item whose description contradicts itself:
    Quote Originally Posted by Decorative statue
    When the canine brushed the statue, the spell transferred to him, and the dog became stone, freeing the servant. This pattern continues, so whenever a living creature of medium or large size (including invisible creatures) touches the statue, the trapped creature becomes free and the new creature turns to stone.
    In 3.5e, dogs are Small creatures and therefore immune to a decorative statue's effect.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Pine View Post
    This online article contains a magic item whose description contradicts itself:

    In 3.5e, dogs are Small creatures and therefore immune to a decorative statue's effect.
    Except it doesn't specified what kind of dog it was; Guard Dog, Hunting Dog, Mastiff, Riding Dog, and Saaniemian War Dog are all Medium-sized

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by HisHighestMinio View Post
    Bear Warrior from Complete Warrior can turn into a bear when raging or frenzying. The only limit on the uses per day is the uses of rage... Except it's only usable once per day. (Increasing at higher levels)
    Check the errata, the limit was moved to number of rage/frenzy uses per day.

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Knight of the Chase PrC (Dragon #297):
    Nemoud's Brethren: At 3rd level, the knight gains the services of a specially selected hound. This hound is similar to a war dog, however it also gains abilities in a comparable fashion to a wizard's familiar (see The War Dog Special Abilities chart in this article and page 51 of the Player's Handbook). Nemoud's Brethren, however, do not grant their master any special powers (such as the toad's +2 Constitution bonus) in the way that familiars do. If the dog is slain, the knight gains no replacement until he has gained an additional level as a knight.
    Problem: not in the article itself, nor (AFAIK) in any other printed source we have stats for ordinary "war dog"


    Cultist of the Shattered Peak PrC (Lost Empires of Faerûn) is suffering from severe case of fluff-crunch disconnection:
    "The pride of wizards and arcanists nearly doomed Faerûn once. Never again."
    —Khemal Serist, Cultist of the Shattered Peak
    ...
    Most of the tales about secret Netherese cults depict their members as power-mad wizards bent on raising the Empire of Magic once again, or exploiting its secrets for personal gain. But the Cult of the Shattered Peak bears no resemblance to the cults in these stories, since its membership includes not a single arcane spellcaster.
    Becoming a Cultist of the Shattered Peak
    ...
    The cult's sometimes ruthless tactics make paladins rare in its ranks, and arcane spellcasters are simply not permitted.
    Entry Requirements
    ...
    Special: You may not have any levels in an arcane spellcasting class.
    Class Features
    As a cultist of the Shattered Peak, you are focused on preventing arcane spellcasters from rediscovering the old ways of Netheril. Because that goal sometimes places you in direct conflict with arcane spellcasters, cult training grants you a number of abilities aimed at ensuring victory against such foes.
    Attention!..
    Drum roll...
    Spellcasting: You have the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells.
    Please, somebody, tell me: is it bigotry, or are they just in denial?..

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by PHB p 59
    Scribe Scroll: at first level a wizard gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. This feats enables
    her to create magic schools
    (see Scribe Scroll, page 99, and Creating Magic Items, page 282 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide).
    I desperately hope this was never corrected, because the thought of someone saying "I use my Scribe Scroll feat to craft Hogwarts" is hilarious. Alternatively, if you want to be a specialist wizard but don't want to give up your base schools, have your wizard friend just create new schools for you to ban.

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbudday View Post
    I desperately hope this was never corrected, because the thought of someone saying "I use my Scribe Scroll feat to craft Hogwarts" is hilarious. Alternatively, if you want to be a specialist wizard but don't want to give up your base schools, have your wizard friend just create new schools for you to ban.
    Sadly, it was fixed.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbudday View Post
    I desperately hope this was never corrected, because the thought of someone saying "I use my Scribe Scroll feat to craft Hogwarts" is hilarious. Alternatively, if you want to be a specialist wizard but don't want to give up your base schools, have your wizard friend just create new schools for you to ban.
    That would explain Create Chosen One...
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    You can't give up on curing someone who suffers from lycanthropy:

    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Manual
    The only other way to remove the affliction is to cast remove curse or break enchantment on the character during one of the three days of the full moon. After receiving the spell, the character must succeed on a DC 20 Will save to break the curse (the caster knows if the spell works). If the save fails, the process must be repeated.
    If the cure doesn't take, you must try again. Your only other hope of escape (besides success) is for the spell to fail, repeating the process but not offering the save.

    A lycanthrope could use this to lock down a cleric for an extended period of time by deliberately failing their save.

    They meant to say that the process may be repeated, to clarify that it isn't a try-once-or-suffer-forever type deal.

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    I hope this hasn't been mentioned already. I posted this in another thread, but it belongs here too.

    The spell Awaken Undead (SpC, pg. 21) seems to grant the caster a measure of control over the awakened targets, even if the caster didn't previously have any control over them. The spell explicitly says that the awakened undead "don armor and take up weapons while obeying your commands," and there's nothing saying that the undead had to previously be ready to obey your commands.

    This is amusing if used against undead that are under someone else's direct control (this wouldn't necessarily break that control, of course, but you could still definitely interfere with the original master's plans), and it's somewhat abusive if used to gain control over uncontrolled undead that you normally wouldn't have the capacity to control (because of your Animate Dead limit, your rebuke-based control limit, or whatever). And of course, Awaken Undead is instantaneous, so the willingness to obey your commands doesn't go away.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    The Aspect of Pale Night has the following ability:

    Truth Beneath the Veil (Su) Like Pale Night herself,
    the true form of an aspect of Pale Night is one of
    such unimaginable horror that reality itself
    refuses to accept it. Thus, the aspect of Pale Night
    does not have a form of madness like other
    obyriths. Her true form is hidden by her shroud.
    Anyone who attempts to part the shroud to get a
    better look at the aspect must make a DC 20
    Fortitude save. Success indicates that the creature’s
    mind simply fails to process what it sees
    before a new shroud automatically wraps around
    the aspect’s incorporeal body. Failure indicates
    that for a brief moment, the character views the
    truth and is immediately rendered comatose and
    stricken with total amnesia. Even if the coma and
    amnesia effects are dispelled, the character
    cannot remember what he or she saw under the
    shroud. The save DC is Charisma-based.
    Problem is, supernatural abilities can't be dispelled.
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  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    The Shrieker Fungus and Formian Queen are both creatures with DEX - a very rare thing indeed (they also are the only corporeal creatures with STR -). As we see in the rules for nonabilities, a creature with a nonability in Dex uses its intelligence modifier for initiative checks. In both cases they failed to take this into account, and both monsters have a -5 to init, which is not the modifier for a nonability (+0) but the modifier for a 0 ability.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Arcane Mark is a spell (from the PHB no less) with a range of 0 feet. This breaks something I'm sure.

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    That means the square you are currently occupying.

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    The Aoa Droplet can reflect gaze attacks back to their source:

    In addition, aoa are immune to gaze attacks, and such an effect is reflected back to its origin.
    With all creatures being immune to their own gazes, I fail to see what this ability actually does, though.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Arcane spellcasters can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters can only use scrolls containing divine spells.

    Therefore, Theurges can only use a scroll if it contains both an arcane spell and a divine spell, which in practice is very rare. UMD doesn't help, either; it doesn't have a clause to emulate not having a class feature.

    I think this applies to both 3.5 and Pathfinder.
    Last edited by Bucky; 2017-03-15 at 10:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, an elf's resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this quality.
    Except elves have no resistance to sleep - they have resistance to enchantment, and immunity to sleep
    "Resistance" and "immunity" are two very different things in-RAW
    I suspecting we have there a copypasta error, and RAI is something like "(for example, an elf's resistance to charm effects)"
    This one line lead to school of thought which says you can, for example, poison a Golem by commanding it to "suppress it's immunity to poisons" - despite Golem is immune to them because of complete lack of internal anatomy necessary to be poisoned

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    The Aoa Droplet can reflect gaze attacks back to their source:

    With all creatures being immune to their own gazes, I fail to see what this ability actually does, though.
    Fiend Folio is 3.0, so there may have been a change in the 3.0 -> 3.5 update that gave blanket immunity to all self-gazing stuff. Certainly the 3.5 rules where all images in mirrors negate gaze attacks and all creatures are immune to themselves breach all the gaze attack traditions in story and previous editions.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Coretron03 View Post
    here, under the polymorph subschool
    "If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing"
    Using a polymorph-subschool spell to become a creature that swims but can't breathe underwater (e.g. an undine or a crocodile) grants the ability to breathe underwater.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Using a polymorph-subschool spell to become a creature that swims but can't breathe underwater (e.g. an undine or a crocodile) grants the ability to breathe underwater.
    It's not a bug, it's a feature.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    It's not a bug, it's a feature.
    I think we found the title of the "Dysfunctional Rules X" thread (alternatively "It's not a vermin, it's a feature" if you want to keep it fantasy-themed).
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    Thumbs up Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    It's not a bug, it's a feature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Pine View Post
    I think we found the title of the "Dysfunctional Rules X" thread (alternatively "It's not a vermin, it's a feature" if you want to keep it fantasy-themed).
    A little early for that, but I think I agree.

    ...How did nobody think of that one before?
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    This came up in my game and I wanted to throw it out there for the playground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Protection from Evil
    Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person).
    PfE blocks any attempt to exercise mental control over the creature. However, the definition of "control" is very broad.

    the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events.
    Everything influences behavior. Actions change the circumstances, and thus influence what we want and can do in a given situation. A bonus or a penalty to any given action makes it more or less favorable, thus influencing what the creature will do, it's behavior in a given situation is altered due to the change in circumstance.

    So any attempt at mental control is blocked... Which is a lot.

    Will
    These saves reflect your resistance to mental influence as well as many magical effects.
    Anything that targets your will save is mental influence, which is mental control. Protection from Evil prevents one from being blinded by Glitterdust!

    Do words count? If someone tries to change your mind through whichever social skill, is the attempt blocked? If someone shows you a picture, which usually triggers some mental response, does that get blocked as well?
    A wise monk trains both mind and body, but a smart monk is actually a swordsage.

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    Do words count? If someone tries to change your mind through whichever social skill, is the attempt blocked? If someone shows you a picture, which usually triggers some mental response, does that get blocked as well?
    protection from evil gives you a sense of safety, and therefore influences your behavior

    does this mean that protection from evil blocks itself?

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    This came up in my game and I wanted to throw it out there for the playground.



    PfE blocks any attempt to exercise mental control over the creature. However, the definition of "control" is very broad.



    Everything influences behavior. Actions change the circumstances, and thus influence what we want and can do in a given situation. A bonus or a penalty to any given action makes it more or less favorable, thus influencing what the creature will do, it's behavior in a given situation is altered due to the change in circumstance.

    So any attempt at mental control is blocked... Which is a lot.



    Anything that targets your will save is mental influence, which is mental control. Protection from Evil prevents one from being blinded by Glitterdust!

    Do words count? If someone tries to change your mind through whichever social skill, is the attempt blocked? If someone shows you a picture, which usually triggers some mental response, does that get blocked as well?
    Influence and control are two very different things. If I greet someone and offer to shake his hand because I'm holding a shock buzzer, I'm trying to influence his behaviour by attempting to trick him. However, I'm in no way exerting mental control on him, so if he spots the buzzer he's free to refuse my offer. He's in no way compelled to do what I say.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by ijon View Post
    protection from evil gives you a sense of safety, and therefore influences your behavior

    does this mean that protection from evil blocks itself?
    No, it blocks the sense of safety it'd otherwise provide.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Pine View Post
    Influence and control are two very different things. If I greet someone and offer to shake his hand because I'm holding a shock buzzer, I'm trying to influence his behaviour by attempting to trick him. However, I'm in no way exerting mental control on him, so if he spots the buzzer he's free to refuse my offer. He's in no way compelled to do what I say.
    He isn't compelled to do it, but by offering your hand, you are trying to compel him to shake yours.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    He isn't compelled to do it, but by offering your hand, you are trying to compel him to shake yours.
    is it him that's trying to compel you, or is it the rules of society that are trying to compel you? because I'm thinking that it's the second one.

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    He isn't compelled to do it, but by offering your hand, you are trying to compel him to shake yours.
    Maybe, I'm not even sure compelling someone is something you can try to do. I've always seen as an absolute thing. The point is that I'm not exercising mental control on him, because the two actions aren't the same thing.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Pine View Post
    Maybe, I'm not even sure compelling someone is something you can try to do. I've always seen as an absolute thing. The point is that I'm not exercising mental control on him, because the two actions aren't the same thing.
    Are they that different?

    Quote Originally Posted by Compel
    force or oblige (someone) to do something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Control
    the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events.
    The mental part is arguable, true. But you are trying to get a person to perform an action they wouldn't otherwise do, which means that you are trying to change their mental state. Your actions are physical, but ijon did have a point, it's the rules of society that are doing the compelling, and that's on a mental level.

    So for the duration of PfE, the rules of society are suppressed!

    Even ignoring that, Glitterdust being a mind attack that influences you means that it is blocked by PfE, and I don't think that's quite right.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List

    It's a silly thought, but I think we're in another 'specific interpretation' situation.

    The kind of control that PtE is magic that keeps one from saying no. Charms, possession, and domination exert control by preventing refusals. If a demon were to flatter or threaten me into getting it across a magic circle, I can still accept or refuse, even if doing so may be detrimental to me. The point is that PrE keeps me from being an idiot off of my own terms.

    But to roll with the broader interpretation, if a demon were to harass me in a way that would trigger an unconscious response, maybe magic circle would provide a blur and bleep to censor them.
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