Rules You Never Noticed

[Vaern]

Also I see your change there. You stopped talking about the epic bard to claim you were talking about epic feats. It'd be nice cover except improved spell capacity says you gain a new slot instead of saying that you learn a new Xth level spell that doesn't exist.

There is no change. My argument was never about epic bards. I never said the class gives you higher spell slots; I merely commented that they normally aren't available until epic level. And yes, by taking feats to advance spellcasting, that level of spell power becomes available to an epic-level bard.

And if you read that full post instead of stopping at Improved Spell Capacity, you might have noticed the second feat, which does let you learn new spells of up to Xth level.

But like I said, my argument was never about epic levels. I only suggested that the Sublime Chord's spell selection grants access to a gray area in the rules, which may also eventually be reached by an epic level bard, which offers a window of creativity if someone was inclined to look for it.
But perhaps the concepts of "gray areas" and "creativity" are beyond your comprehension.

[Eladrinblade]

You know how a wizard gets two more spells added to their spellbook every time they level up? If you're a specialist wizard, one of those spells must be from your specialty school.

With reach weapons, with regards to cover or concealment, you are treated as wielding a ranged weapon, which means you can gain the benefits of Improved Precise Shot with a spiked chain or glaive or whatever. It also means a rogue using a spiked chain (or any actual ranged weapon, for that matter) can sneak attack enemies with concealment (they still need to be able to see clearly).

Armor spikes let you deal their damage on top of your unarmed damage when you grapple somebody.

It's not a "rule", but a bard with 18 Int can have max ranks in every knowledge skill.

One of the options for weapon focus/specialization is "grapple"

Craft Magic Arms & Armor/Wondrous Item let you fix broken items at 1/2 their normal creation costs (1/4 their market costs); sunder ain't so bad after all

Improved Turning doesn't just add +1 to your turning damage, it also adds to your level as per table 8-9

Spirited charge triples your damage with a lance; this means any flat bonus as well, naturally, so power attack and even smite evil for some truly prodigious damage

A halfling under the reduce person spell is tiny and can therefor ride an eagle (such as a druid's animal companion, or a 1st level summon natures ally); giving a party some access to flight as early as 1st level

The snare spell requires a search check to notice it (not a spot check), with a DC high enough to require trap finding, and allows no save and no SR. Breaking free requires a full-round action, meaning this spell is a guaranteed way to inhibit even the most powerful enemies, for at least a round (unless they can teleport).

Tripping a flying creatures causes it to stall.

Most flying creatures have a minimum forward speed; a net slows your speed to half, therefor using a net on a flying creature may take away it's ability to fly at all, or maybe just force it to fly in a straight line until landing.

Protection from X spells prevent summoned creatures from touching you, meaning many can't attack you at all, this includes summon natures ally.

Due to uncanny dodge, rogues and barbarians retain their dex bonus to AC against surprise attacks. This means they retain any dodge bonuses, such as from trap sense, total defense, or combat expertise. So, a rogue or barbarian, with a shield, taking a total defense action, can walk down a trapped hallway without worrying about trap attacks (pits and magic ones are still deadly, of course).

A monk retains their unarmed damage while using a gauntlet, though they can't flurry with it.

Improved cover grants a +10 bonus to hide checks, so peeking around a corner is actually a thing in the rules.

Deafened enemies suffer a -4 penalty to intiative, giving thunderstones a decent surprise round use in parties containing rogues.

Feinting bypasses dodge bonuses, so if you can't hit that damn swashbuckler, try feinting.

You can dismount a mounted character with a trip check (though they can use their ride check to oppose). Still trying to figure out how this ties into jousting...

Wanna take out a big monster with the swallow whole ability? Use resist energy (acid), stoneskin, and maybe shield other, get swallowed, and start attacking at max capacity, but don't actually make a hole to escape with. (technically not a "rule" either)

Implosion is not a death spell, so it bypasses death ward.

Restoration heals fatigue, allowing one to continue sprinting or traveling long distance (good for mounts).

I'll stop there. I'm always finding new things in core 3.5.

[Mato]

I'm going to guess his problem is that Vaern is making crap up on the spot and then saying it as though it were fact, but that's just a wild stab in the dark.

Well, if I ever creatively posted a sorcerer / silver pyromancer then claimed the extra slot feat lets me learn the 9th level paladin spell mass heal because the DM can rule 0 it for me in a thread discussing rules people haven't read I'd hope you realized I wasn't being serious just based off the irony of the topic.

Vaern's entire point, without the needless convolution and desperation to find something supportive, is more of a question of if a 9th level druid takes extra spell and chooses a 6th level ranger spell then what happens? And he provides the answer of homebrew to fill in the "gray areas" but if you disagree with that then he insults you for not having enough vision and I'm supposed to be the one with a problem?

I suppose Christmas can be very stressful to some people.

It's not a "rule", but a bard with 18 Int can have max ranks in every knowledge skill.

But what about knowledge[psionics]? OA also added a few, S&F has Knowledge[code of martial honor] and ToB also added one. That one site I can't link has a couple uncited ones I didn't cover too so a couple more Int points are needed, you're probably better off using the Factotum for the synergy.

Does anyone have a complete list of all the possible knowledge skills?

A halfling under the reduce person spell is tiny and can therefor ride an eagle (such as a druid's animal companion, or a 1st level summon natures ally); giving a party some access to flight as early as 1st level

Dire bats are medium creatures and have a small price tag so you don't need reduce person.

[Vaern]

Vaern's entire point, without the needless convolution and desperation to find something supportive, is more of a question of if a 9th level druid takes extra spell and chooses a 6th level ranger spell then what happens?

But that's not the same thing. It may be an accurate comparison if those classed were reversed, though: If ranger the ranger gains access to 6th level spells, though his spell list normally only goes up to 4th level, could he use the slots to learn certain druid spells? The druid's spell list has a full 9-spell-level progression, and then proceeds to epic spellcasting; the ranger, on the other hand, only gains up to 4th level spells, leaving a large gap between standard spell progression and epic spellcasting. Just like the bard, these spell levels are a gray area which the rules don't accommodate for, and thus the druid's spell list - being nature-themed like the ranger's - would be a likely place to look for substitute spells to fill the empty space, just as I'm suggesting that higher level healing spells might be an acceptable possibility to fill the bard's otherwise empty 7th- through 9th-level spell levels.

[stanprollyright]

Yeah but Sublime Chord already draws from the wizard list

[Vaern]

Yeah but Sublime Chord already draws from the wizard list

Yeah, but not exclusively. Access to wizard spells means they don't have the lack of options that a straight bard may encounter upon reaching those spell levels, though the option of touching that unexplored territory is still there.

[KillianHawkeye]

One that I didn't learn about until a couple months ago is that you can't take an Attack of Opportunity against an enemy who has cover, so doing something like fighting from around a corner or through a doorway is pretty safe for taking certain actions in melee range.

[JoshuaZ]

You know how a wizard gets two more spells added to their spellbook every time they level up? If you're a specialist wizard, one of those spells must be from your specialty school.

Where is this? I can't find it at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/so...ard.htm#wizard

[Allanimal]

Where is this? I can't find it at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/so...ard.htm#wizard

It is here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv...zardsSpellbook

Spells Gained at a New Level
Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast. If she has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from her specialty school.

[Venger]

One that I didn't learn about until a couple months ago is that you can't take an Attack of Opportunity against an enemy who has cover, so doing something like fighting from around a corner or through a doorway is pretty safe for taking certain actions in melee range.

That's interesting. Where is this rule? Is it under aoos or cover.

[JoshuaZ]

It is here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv...zardsSpellbook

Huh. That's very interesting. That seems like an important rule I've never noticed before.

[Allanimal]

Huh. That's very interesting. That seems like an important rule I've never noticed before.

Indeed. They really should have put it in with the Wizard class description, imho, instead of buried in the part about adding spells to the spell book.

[KillianHawkeye]

That's interesting. Where is this rule? Is it under aoos or cover.

Cover.

[Venger]

Cover.

Huh. How about that? Good spot.

One of my favorites is this gem

Active abjuration spells within 10 feet of each other for 24 hours or more create barely visible energy fluctuations. These fluctuations give you a +4 bonus on Search checks to locate such abjuration spells.

How often did they think this was going to come up that they made this rule for it?

[Flickerdart]

How often did they think this was going to come up that they made this rule for it?

Reasonably often, in the case of BBEGs that trick out their base in all kinds of protective spells. Rogues need every bit of help they can get to spot 'em!

[Keral]

Active abjuration spells within 10 feet of each other for 24 hours or more create barely visible energy fluctuations. These fluctuations give you a +4 bonus on Search checks to locate such abjuration spells.

Uh, does an item providing a permanent spell effect count as an active spell?

Also, looking at that section, I just noticed:

Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

How can this really work? I mean, summon monster says:

except that you can summon one creature from the 3rd-level list, 1d3 creatures of the same kind from the 2nd-level list, or 1d4+1 creatures of the same kind from the 1st-level list.

When you can summon multiple copies of a creature can you really reasonably enforce that if one's killed you can't summon it again before the reforming time passes?

[Zombimode]

When you can summon multiple copies of a creature can you really reasonably enforce that if one's killed you can't summon it again before the reforming time passes?

You simply summon other creatures of the same kind.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I just noticed that call weaponry has no provision for losing the weapon at the end of the power's duration; it only goes away if you let go of it for too long. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/po...llWeaponry.htm

So you use the power, and you get a permaweapon, though you can re-call it later to upgrade it or change its ability options (via soulbound weapon).

[Troacctid]

One that I overlooked at first that I'm betting other people did the same is that the scout's uncanny dodge ability is different from most other versions of the ability. It doesn't just prevent you from being denied your Dex to AC when you're flat-footed. It prevents you from being caught flat-footed...period. Foresight, eat your heart out.

Another one is that soulmelds are subject to spell resistance when they target another creature. Or at least they're supposed to be—none of them have a target line, so the rule is highly dysfunctional. Still, it exists, and it's easy to miss.

I just noticed that call weaponry has no provision for losing the weapon at the end of the power's duration; it only goes away if you let go of it for too long. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/po...llWeaponry.htm

So you use the power, and you get a permaweapon, though you can re-call it later to upgrade it or change its ability options (via soulbound weapon).

I didn't notice that either, but it looks like you're right.

A power of the teleportation subdiscipline transports one or more creatures or objects a great distance. The most potent of these powers can cross planar boundaries. Usually the transportation is one-way (unless otherwise noted) and not dispellable. Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.

But that can't be the intent, right?

[Manyasone]

One that I overlooked at first that I'm betting other people did the same is that the scout's uncanny dodge ability is different from most other versions of the ability. It doesn't just prevent you from being denied your Dex to AC when you're flat-footed. It prevents you from being caught flat-footed...period. Foresight, eat your heart out.

Another one is that soulmelds are subject to spell resistance when they target another creature. Or at least they're supposed to be—none of them have a target line, so the rule is highly dysfunctional. Still, it exists, and it's easy to miss.


I didn't notice that either, but it looks like you're right.

But that can't be the intent, right?

Hmmm, the power has a duration of 1min/lvl...pretty clear in my opinion

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hmmm, the power has a duration of 1min/lvl...pretty clear in my opinion

And yet it's a teleportation power, which explicitly does not return the affected subject at the end of the power, since it's not stated to do so. The only thing that actually happens, RAW, is the weapon no longer returns from whence it came if you drop it at the end of the power's duration, I think, because the power is no longer affecting the weapon.

[Doctor Despair]

And yet it's a teleportation power, which explicitly does not return the affected subject at the end of the power, since it's not stated to do so. The only thing that actually happens, RAW, is the weapon no longer returns from whence it came if you drop it at the end of the power's duration, I think, because the power is no longer affecting the weapon.

I suppose that depends on if the returning is a quality of the weapons or a function of the power. With that reading, a Psychic Warrior could expend all their power points on any given day to make as strong a weapon as they can, hold it for X minutes, and then be set to adventure the next day with a marked power increase. Sounds like a fun trick to buff a non-full-casting class (although I'm not super familiar with psionics, I assume a psychic warrior isn't the equivalent of a psion).

[SirNibbles]

Nah, what you do is load your weapon up with enhancement properties, then cast GMW. Now your +1 Flaming Collision sword is a +5 Flaming Collision sword.

I would highly advise looking at the Brambles spell (Complete Divine pg 156). It gives up to a +10 enhancement bonus for wooden weapons (at caster level 10) with a second level spell slot, though you need a bit of work to Persist it. Thankfully, you can pass the weapon to someone after you buff it. You can also use it on a Treant's natural weapons.

[Crake]

When you can summon multiple copies of a creature can you really reasonably enforce that if one's killed you can't summon it again before the reforming time passes?

This rule was for summoning specific creatures. For example, if you summoned an earth elemental to go scout a cave, and it died in the cave, you couldn't summon the same elemental again to learn what it saw for 24 hours. There is also an optional rule in the DMG about having set summons, where instead of summoning random creatures, it's the same ones every time, and you can even deck them out with gear by plane shifting it to them, but as you guessed, if they die, you lose access to them for 24 hours.

[Inevitability]

And yet it's a teleportation power, which explicitly does not return the affected subject at the end of the power, since it's not stated to do so. The only thing that actually happens, RAW, is the weapon no longer returns from whence it came if you drop it at the end of the power's duration, I think, because the power is no longer affecting the weapon.

It'd probably also remove the 'distinctive astral glimmer' so they no longer overcome DR/magic, making the created weapons far less interesting to use.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It'd probably also remove the 'distinctive astral glimmer' so they no longer overcome DR/magic, making the created weapons far less interesting to use.

It would still be a +X weapon at higher augmentations, though, which would remove that issue completely.

[Zanos]

I would highly advise looking at the Brambles spell (Complete Divine pg 156). It gives up to a +10 enhancement bonus for wooden weapons (at caster level 10) with a second level spell slot, though you need a bit of work to Persist it. Thankfully, you can pass the weapon to someone after you buff it. You can also use it on a Treant's natural weapons.

It got nerfed in spell compendium. +1 to hit flat, and +cl to damage.

[Yahzi]

So, I was reading over Weapon Finesse the other day, and noticed something.

Not only have I never noticed that, I'm going to go back to never noticing it.
Ugh. What an annoying way to cripple an already crippled feat.

[Eladrinblade]

Not only have I never noticed that, I'm going to go back to never noticing it.
Ugh. What an annoying way to cripple an already crippled feat.

Unless you wanted to use a tower shield, what difference does it make?

[daremetoidareyo]

Not only have I never noticed that, I'm going to go back to never noticing it.
Ugh. What an annoying way to cripple an already crippled feat.

Thou art guilty of houserule! Guards, fling this...miscreant into the sea of text!